ANSWERED:Give Concept Creators Credit In-Site

[Ashes The Second]

I would /love/ to see concept credit. If nothing else, it lets us know who came up with the idea, and whether or not we can follow their work, if we like the breed a lot.

[Pokemonfan13]

Previously some topics that ended up with pretty sprites started with pretty much nothing more than someone posting a really really bad drawing (or an incredibly brief description) and a name for the dragon in the title. I think a lot of them didn't even end up writing the descriptions for the dragon. There's a HUGE difference between the requirements for getting a dragon approved now and then (I think I might be thinking back before approvals were needed). With the concepts now the person who made the thread needs to do a good bit of work.

 

Basically, I agree for this for current threads. For older dragons a determination should be made as to if the person who made the thread actually did a lot of work coming up with the dragon or not.

[Thuban]

To be perfectly honest, most of the time when I bother with working on a concept of my own, I dont have descriptions, names or any idea what my concept is. It is always a very vague idea, with a basic idea of what i want as a direct result of accidentally ending up with a decent sketch. I will very frequently have a finish adults before i have a general idea of where the concept is going. I also handle most of my concept planning off forum, in pms, skype, whatever.

 

Because of that, I would have a very hard time getting concept credit, especially if i wasnt able to sprite it myself. I have an offsite project im working on right now that I have only touched the adult on. The baby stages, i wouldnt exactly have any credit for because i did not sketch them, i did not sprite them, and i have not done the coloring on them. They were drawn specifically on an idea i had and based on a very horrible adult sketch that eventually ended up being a decent sprite. I have no way to prove i am the concept holder because there is no public post to show i own the concept

 

 

If the Concept holder is playing an active part in their concept, is giving crits, input or whatever into their concept, in thread or offsite, then yes, they deserve concept credit.

 

However: if the op never says anything more than "i want this general idea" and "i like that" then no. If the thread is taking over how the concept goes, and the concept holder isnt adding input, then why would they get credit?

 

 

 

[Ashywolf]

I certainly wouldn't mind this.

 

Its hard to define though. Some people don't always have the knowledge of dragons (as an example, and not meant to be criticizing or flaming) to come up with detailed descriptions. And everyone has creativity, but not everyone can draw. Some details are very hard to explain, and tend to be left out as a result.

 

 

[hazeh]

 

However: if the op never says anything more than "i want this general idea" and "i like that" then no. If the thread is taking over how the concept goes, and the concept holder isnt adding input, then why would they get credit?

This was discussed a bit earlier in the thread, so I'll just relay my response:

 

The person(s) who are eligible for concept credit have to have contributed to a significant portion of the dragon breed. If they outlined the idea and the dragon was created per those guidelines, then obviously. If they just said "I want a black dragon" and some wicked cool unique dragon came out of the depths of discussion between other members, than the original poster would not get that credit because they didn't contribute enough on their own to be able to say, "This was my idea".

[kittygrl]

I like this, like right now if my dragon in the completeds got released for instance tomorrow i would be sad because well no one will know i came up with it just someone sprited. yea they helped me conceptualize it by showing pictures, and they sprited, they deserve a lot of credit, but i would at least like my username on the wiki at least. because if it wasnt for that OP that dragon wouldve never existed

Edited June 7, 2012 by kittygrl

[Pokemonfan13]

And what about a situation where the OP starts things off with something very brief and never contributes much more than "I like it" to the dragon being made, but another user who isn't one of the artists works very closely with the artists, giving good crit and ideas throughout the entire process?

[hazeh]

And what about a situation where the OP starts things off with something very brief and never contributes much more than "I like it" to the dragon being made, but another user who isn't one of the artists works very closely with the artists, giving good crit and ideas throughout the entire process?

I think that depends on what they start off with as an idea. The other person would more than likely be credited as well as long as they want to be. Some people just like coming up with ideas.

More than one person would be able to be credited for the idea of the dragon as a whole, but it depends, since this is more of a situation-to-situation kind of deal than it is clear cut.

[Plant]

I don't know if this will do much good, but I just want to post here saying that I support this idea. I understand some people's concerns when it comes to this subject, so maybe credit should be optional for the OP? Like Shiny Hazard Sign said, some people like to come up with ideas.

[stogucheme]

Previously some topics that ended up with pretty sprites started with pretty much nothing more than someone posting a really really bad drawing (or an incredibly brief description) and a name for the dragon in the title. I think a lot of them didn't even end up writing the descriptions for the dragon. There's a HUGE difference between the requirements for getting a dragon approved now and then (I think I might be thinking back before approvals were needed). With the concepts now the person who made the thread needs to do a good bit of work.

 

Basically, I agree for this for current threads. For older dragons a determination should be made as to if the person who made the thread actually did a lot of work coming up with the dragon or not.

^This.

[skauble]

I support the idea that people who worked on whatever part of the dragon should get credit. However, I don't think that the name at the bottom of the page is meant to do that, but rather to establish ownership of the art.

 

Since it doesn't seem that ownership of the concept is what's being asked for here, what I think would be fair is a link at the bottom of all the dragon pages that says "Credits" or "Contributors" or "Contributions made by" that takes people to a page where all the dragon credits are and it could be listed like:

 

Example dragon

 

Concept contributors:

 

Name

Name

Name

Name

Name

 

Art contributors:

 

Name

Name

Name

Name

 

That way there could be a list of people who contributed significantly made at the end of a suggestion thread and they could all be listed instead of TJ going back and deciding who did what. And if someone disagrees, they can do so in that thread and simply link to the posts where they contributed before the thread is deemed finished. If it's still contested, then TJ would have to make the determination.

 

That way, everyone gets credit and we don't have to whittle it down in case someone actually gets too much. Even if it said:

 

Conceptors and Contributors:

 

Main conceptor:

Main conceptor:

Contributor

Contributor

 

Artists:

 

Adult:

Hatchling:

Egg:

 

Then everyone can still be credited for the work they did and it can be in cave and all in one place so it's easy to see who all helped with each particular dragon.

[hazeh]

Oooh, I do like that. Thank you for your input~

[brairtrainer]

I would love to see this added! I've got this idea for a dragon that has been bugging me since I joined but it does kinda bother me that I wouldn't get credit. I can't draw or sprite to save my life, but I would want to know that I not only got credit for the work I did but that if something for a BSA were to come up I could prove that I was the creator and I gave it a go ahead or a no way this would not work.

 

Not saying this would happen the DC community seems like a very agreeable bunch but I do have an example right now.

 

Lets say you think of a great BSA and you post it for X breed of dragon. The dragons creator Bob says that it would work, but the person who did the sprite says no it wouldn't and it doesn't make sense. Well techenicaly the only person credited is the person who did the sprite and unless enough people on the forum can vouch that Bob made up the dragon that BSA might be shot down because someone said no.

 

But if Bob were to have credit on the site then there would be no problem.

[Anquatic]

Yes, please. The conceptors are a huge part in creating a new dragon, after all.

[Ashes The Second]

I would love to see this added! I've got this idea for a dragon that has been bugging me since I joined but it does kinda bother me that I wouldn't get credit. I can't draw or sprite to save my life, but I would want to know that I not only got credit for the work I did but that if something for a BSA were to come up I could prove that I was the creator and I gave it a go ahead or a no way this would not work.

 

Not saying this would happen the DC community seems like a very agreeable bunch but I do have an example right now.

 

Lets say you think of a great BSA and you post it for X breed of dragon. The dragons creator Bob says that it would work, but the person who did the sprite says no it wouldn't and it doesn't make sense. Well techenicaly the only person credited is the person who did the sprite and unless enough people on the forum can vouch that Bob made up the dragon that BSA might be shot down because someone said no.

 

But if Bob were to have credit on the site then there would be no problem.

This as well. I mean, the spriter only sprited. Yes, I know spriters work hard on what they do, but getting all the credit? That's like a slap in the face to many conceptors, unless you sprited /and/ concepted. I hate when I don't evne know who /made/ the dragon. Spriters brought it to pixels, but they didn't have the original idea in most cases. :/

 

note;; I'm not trying to bash on the spriters, I just want conceptors to get credit where it is absolutely due. I would leave dc if I was a conceptor an I didn't get /something/ for my hard work.

Edited June 15, 2012 by Ashes The Second

[Dis]

I like how emotionally biased the poll is.

 

"Yes, you are a genius and should be bathed in the tears of angels."

 

or "NO, I'M A JERKFACE AND HATE KITTENS AND PUPPIES AND ALSO LIKE FORKS JAMMED IN MY EYES."

 

edit for censorz

Edited June 15, 2012 by Dis

[purplehaze]

Actually, it seems to me that the bias in this poll is mild compared to some I have seen!

[hazeh]

Haha, it seems some of the options on the poll were re-worded.

[Fiona]

Hey, nice job, TJ/mod-type-person! I like the way the poll was redone. It's much more neutral now.

 

As I said earlier in the thread, I don't have an objection to the idea of some sort of credit for people who come up with concept ideas that are used in the cave, but I see problems to be solved first. The biggest is who decides who gets credit? What criteria is used for that?

 

For the record, for those that don't know, of the currently released dragons I believe there is only one that this idea applies to and that's Flamingos. The conceptor is not an artist (Dr. Paine) and so her name doesn't appear on the site credits. On the forum though, she is acknowledged as the "goto" person for Flamingo traits. All the other dragons we have in-cave are either concepted by the artist(s) who sprited them or concepts by TJ.

 

A lot of the dragons on the Completed List are not sprited by the person who came up with the concept though, so this idea becomes more relevant.

[SolarCat]

Alright, I'll use an example of a concept dragon on the completed list.

 

Spider Dragon

I started the original concept, even made some bad attempts at a drawing or two.

The final dragon result came out similar to what was originally proposed (or at least, what I was thinking in my head), but much cooler looking.

So by what was discussed in this thread, then, I should get credit for the concept, right?

 

Except I don't deserve it.

 

If anyone were to get "courtesy credit" for this dragon I'd think it should be SockPuppet Strangler, who ensured the dragon was completed and kept everything moving forward.

I disappeared due to real life issues (don't really want to go into detail, but I felt like everything was spiraling out of control with all the things I was doing at the time), and when things settled down and I came back I didn't even remember I had started that thread.

 

Essentially, I'm not sure focusing on whoever came up with the "concept" for the dragon is the proper direction for attention here.

I do feel that there are certain people who don't sprite/sketch who absolutely deserve credit for dragon ideas if they're implemented into the cave, because they're the ones who keep the thread moving and focused and the dragon wouldn't ever materialize as a finalized product without their input and efforts.

These people aren't necessarily the ones who came up with the idea, either, sometimes they're just the ones who care about it the most.

Edited June 15, 2012 by SolarCat

[Ashes The Second]

Alright, I'll use an example of a concept dragon on the completed list.

 

Spider Dragon

I started the original concept, even made some bad attempts at a drawing or two.

The final dragon result came out similar to what was originally proposed (or at least, what I was thinking in my head), but much cooler looking.

So by what was discussed in this thread, then, I should get credit for the concept, right?

 

Except I don't deserve it.

 

If anyone were to get "courtesy credit" for this dragon I'd think it should be SockPuppet Strangler, who ensured the dragon was completed and kept everything moving forward.

I disappeared due to real life issues (don't really want to go into detail, but I felt like everything was spiraling out of control with all the things I was doing at the time), and when things settled down and I came back I didn't even remember I had started that thread.

 

Essentially, I'm not sure focusing on whoever came up with the "concept" for the dragon is the proper direction for attention here.

I do feel that there are certain people who don't sprite/sketch who absolutely deserve credit for dragon ideas if they're implemented into the cave, because they're the ones who keep the thread moving and focused and the dragon wouldn't ever materialize as a finalized product without their input and efforts.

These people aren't necessarily the ones who came up with the idea, either, sometimes they're just the ones who care about it the most.

You do deserve at least a little notice /somewhere/ that you originally created the dragon. That should be a given, honestly. You made the idea, and you may have not made it happen, but you /still made the dragon itself/concept/ect/. Credit must be given to those who at least put the idea forward, in my eyes.

[hazeh]

Just to make it clear, it doesn't have to only be one person to get courtesy concept credit. More than one person can be acknowledged.

[xeyla]

Just to make it clear, it doesn't have to only be one person to get courtesy concept credit. More than one person can be acknowledged.

I don't want to see a "movie credit list" for a dragon. Those things are at the end of the movie for a reason. I'd like to see the concept, sprite, color, lineart, and description credits. Is there a need for redline credits? I'd like to see egg credits also. The designs have come so far from the originals, and you have such a small canvas to work on.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

I think that the people who come up with concepts in dragon requests, the people who created the thread, should get separate credit on the sprites. They don't need a special artist badge, they don't need special forum access, just simple credit on site.

 

It'd be like:

Art Copyright © [people]

Concept Copyright © [OP]

 

Yes yes, I realize sometimes people start a concept and then abandon it, or start a concept but then someone else does all the creating, but--I'd much rather include the good and the bad then exclude the bad at the expense of the good. There've been a few really lovely concepts I've worked on where the OP has been super helpful and guided the whole process and kept things together, but because they didn't do the final artwork, they don't get any credit, not even if the final sketch was based exactly off their descriptions/early sketches. That seems really lame to me. There was one thread I was in lately where the super-sweet OP had added themselves in to the sprite's credit, even though they hadn't done the art, and we had to tell her she wouldn't get any credit on them; it made me feel like a dirty thief, taking her idea and getting credit for it while she got none! :/

[Amur_Rama]

SUPPORT + INFINITY! YES!