Differentiate between Draks and Drakes

[Shamiir]

To me, saying "Dove created Drakes" is just faulty. It would be akin to saying "Corteo created Lindwurms" and so demanding that every lindwurm has to have freen or blue as a major color.

Exactly.

 

 

[Blear]

Why don't we just call them "dragons", honestly I don't see why following lore is such a big deal when classifying dragons, the actual breeds created aren't part of lore, I've never seen a balloon dragon in any myths for example. And to be fair all lore was once made up by someone too.

[TwilitProphet]

Yeah but it's boring to have over 100 breeds that are just *descriptive word or two* dragon.

 

Plus what about the Golden Wyvern and the Gold Dragon? If both of them were just called dragons, that would have been very confusing. We may not have even had the Golden Wyvern in the caves!

 

That's why being able to use different names is so important!

[Blear]

Yeah but it's boring to have over 100 breeds that are just *descriptive word or two* dragon.

 

Plus what about the Golden Wyvern and the Gold Dragon? If both of them were just called dragons, that would have been very confusing. We may not have even had the Golden Wyvern in the caves!

 

That's why being able to use different names is so important!

I see where youre coming from but the point I didn't elaborate on very well is, they're all dragons in the end, they're made up creatures, so why not make up sub catagories, why must we follow lore, call them drakes if you wish to call them drakes, make up a new subcatagory called wiffles or sgnargs, it's not that important to stay as those who created dragon lore did, the dragcave world is a made up one separate to our own, and there's no need to be picky about what we catagorise as what.

[earthgirl]

I personally always imagined drakes as tiny (cute), pygmi-sized draconian creatures with large wings and eyes, less intelligent but friendly.

 

That's what I based the glory drakes on when I created them, because this is what the Ochredrake came across to me when i learned more about them.

 

Calling them 'Doves's glory drakes' as I seen them being called is wrong, because I'm not Dove.

[Pixxelation]

Why not call them Doves? Glory Doves, Ochredoves... It sounds fine to me to name them after their creator. And who cares if doves are also birds ?

[angelicdragonpuppy]

I personally always imagined drakes as tiny (cute), pygmi-sized draconian creatures with large wings and eyes, less intelligent but friendly.

 

That's what I based the glory drakes on when I created them, because this is what the Ochredrake came across to me when i learned more about them.

 

Calling them 'Doves's glory drakes' as I seen them being called is wrong, because I'm not Dove.

You're not Dove, no, but you made your dragon based heavily on her breed. It's like making an OC out of someone else's species; yes, it is your character, and much of it is original, but the general look and behavior of it is someone else's creation.

[earthgirl]

Well, no. I did not based the Glory drakes on Ochredrakes.

 

I based the Glory drakes on the idea I got of a drake. It's not heavily based on HER breed. But it's based on her idea of what a drake is.

 

I find this whole argumaent about me having my breed based on her breed(and not the idea in itself) rather offensive and off-putting. It's basically like saying glory drakes are a rip-off of ochre-drakes.

Edited March 21, 2013 by earthgirl

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Well, no. I did not based the Glory drakes on Ochredrakes.

 

I based the Glory drakes on the idea I got of a drake. It's not heavily based on HER breed. But it's based on her idea of what a drake is.

 

I find this whole argumaent about me having my breed based on her breed(and not the idea in itself) rather offensive and off-putting. It's basically like saying glory drakes are a rip-off of ochre-drakes.

Based on her idea of a drake = based on a breed she came up with, rather than something you totally thought of 100% yourself. Not a 'breed' as in her ochredrakes, but as in her version of drakes. I'm not trying to offend you, but because you DID create the concept based on her interpretation of a drake, I would say that your concept could rightfully be renamed a Dovedrake or such if needed, as it does stem off of her interpretation rather than a classical one... e___e

 

Ex: if someone made a four-winged serpent, and decided to call it a wyvern, then even if I came up with a totally unique colored, behaviored critter that was purposefully based off their parameters (four wings, serpentine, but called a wyvern), while it would be my own breed, it would still be the other person's draconic 'species,' if you understand what I mean.

 

But honestly? While I'd prefer they be renamed, I'd also be ok with the term 'drake' simply being redefined as any less intelligent, usually smaller breed of dragon, who's decreased mental capabilities make them incompatible to breed with normal dragons. Anything so that I can use the word 'drake' in a concept without people demanding 'where's the wings/antlers/doveness??' And yes, I realize DC could just have a unique interpretation of what drakes are, but it seems very odd to make drakes into a unique DC-only thing when every other breed in DC is both 1) based on traditional fantasy ideas of dragon types and 2) much more general in how it's defined. Seriously, go look at the breed definitions in the 'ultimate guide to dragon requests' sticky and see how long and strictly defined drakes are compared to everything else.

Edited March 21, 2013 by angelicdragonpuppy

[earthgirl]

I still don't see the whole point in re-naming a sub-species of a fantasy creature, just because it doesn't fit the description of the standard idea of said fantasy sub-species.

And why name it after their creator?

Not that I lack respect for Dove or anything, but I created a different species of said-drake. Why name it a 'Dovedrake'? The species might have been invented by her, but I made a different breed of said-drake. The sprites are mine. At the time, that was what I thought a drake really is.

I have only learned about the wingless creature just recently, from a different site.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

It's because her idea of drakes has monopolized the whole DC idea of drakes. People can't use the term in dragon requests without people insisting their concept be changed to match Dove's terms. And again, her terms are very, /very/ specific--as I said right above you, go look at how strictly defined DC's drakes are in relation to every other breed on DC. It doesn't make sense for DC to reinterpret drakes as a very strictly controlled, one-person-defined thing when every other dragon breed on DC is an open interpretation of standard fantasy conventions with plenty of wiggle-room.

[Fiona]

You keep saying "Classic drake", yet a brief search netted me:

MTG: ]winged drakes

WoW: winged drakes

D&D: winged drake

LoTR: winged drakes

 

If 4 of the most recognized genres have winged drakes then I don't see anything "classic" about calling a wingless dragon a drake.

 

As I believe TJ has already stated, there is no "standard" that says drakes are wingless. Therefore, if in the DC world we have our glory drakes and ochredrake, then they are drakes.

 

Edit: Ok, I did find where TJ was talking about drakes and this site. I'd misremembered what he said. I guess if we're called the dang things drakes they should be breedable with glories and ochres. However, he did say that the exacting definition could be relaxed. So, smaller, dumber than standard dragons. Wings or not wings are up to the OP. So, that definition becomes canon for DC.

 

And the point I was trying to make all along is, coming in to someone's thread and saying "Ur doin it rong!" isn't the way to handle naming dragon breeds. Why not just let a person make their vision of a dragon/drake/pygmy/two-head/critter-of-whatever-description and if it doesn't fit DC TJ won't use it. Or he might ask them to make changes. Why get in an uproar over it demanding that something that is already being used be changed?

Edited March 21, 2013 by Fiona BlueFire

[angelicdragonpuppy]

You keep saying "Classic drake", yet a brief search netted me:

MTG: ]winged drakes

WoW: winged drakes

D&D: winged drake

LoTR: winged drakes

 

If 4 of the most recognized genres have winged drakes then I don't see anything "classic" about calling a wingless dragon a drake.

 

As I believe TJ has already stated, there is no "standard" that says drakes are wingless. Therefore, if in the DC world we have our glory drakes and ochredrake, then they are drakes. And if someone in Requests wants to make a topic and call their creation a drake, but it doesn't conform to the ochredrake pattern, that's ok too. Anyone who wanders in to the topic and starts complaining about the name should shut up and get over it. The OP decides the name, and the breeding habits.

Fiona, the problem is that that is NOT how DC drakes are viewed right now. They have to be Dove's drakes or they can't be drakes. This is an exact quote from the guidelines to dragon requests sticky:

 

Drake: Drakes are a species created by Dovealove. They have a certain set of characteristics and can only breed with other drakes.

Drakes always:

1. Possess no opposable digits on any limb (no thumbs)

2. Have antlers which are shed bi-annually

3. Are extremely good natured, obedient and eager to please

4. Are no smarter than your average dog, have short attention spans and tend to never forget training, despite the fact that it takes a long time to cement it in their minds.

5. Are small, ranging in size between the size of a cat and as big as a husky.

6. Are found in the same basic body plan as the ocredrake varieties, which are the most basal forms.

Drakes usually:

1. Have branched antlers.

2. Have only one wing finger and a sail of struts that make the membrane of the wing follow along the tail

3. Have black eyes.

4. Have three toes.

Example: Orchedrake by Dovealove and Pokemonfan13.

 

It needs to be changed, or people will continue to pester others about the use of the term, and all drakes on DC will forever have to conform to that very, very long list of rules. As I said, while I would /prefer/ a name change to distinguish between the two breeds on-site (the highly-defined ones that fit Dove's idea versus just small stupid dragons in general, winged or not), just changing the definition on the forums would go a long way towards fixing things, too.

Edited March 21, 2013 by angelicdragonpuppy

[olympe]

You keep saying "Classic drake", yet a brief search netted me:

MTG: ]winged drakes

WoW: winged drakes

D&D: winged drake

LoTR: winged drakes

 

If 4 of the most recognized genres have winged drakes then I don't see anything "classic" about calling a wingless dragon a drake.

Let's add the firedrakes from Dragonriders of Pern, shall we? (For those who don't know, the firedrakes there are smaller and less intelligent version of the dragons the dragonriders ride, and have wings as well as flying ability just as the "real" dragons. As a matter of fact, the dragons there are genetically enhanced firedrakes.)

[angelicdragonpuppy]

-___- even if the term drake isn't as specific as other terms, can't you all agree that the current DC definition is TOO specific?

[earthgirl]

But since we have Ochres and Glories here, I don't see why we can't have another type of drake on DC. I don't see a rule that says we shouldn't have a wingless drake also.

Those requirements listed are Dove's ideas of drakes. I think it's a cute idea.

But we can make something entirely different with tiny or no wings, with a different concept and still call it a drake and make it breed with the other drakes. On the other site I'm on this is what is considered a drake. I have never heard TJ's word on what can be considered a drake and what can be suitable for DC or even if he said himself that Dove's idea of drake is law on DC. (maybe I missed it and if I did, I'd need a quote)

 

ETA: Maybe we should put a sticky in dragon requests about 'drake' subspecies, types, etc, that explains it better, so that we don't have users pestering to be artists, because 'they're doing it wrong'? :/

Edited March 21, 2013 by earthgirl

[Blear]

Considering the term drake is already taken perhaps it would be easier to just give your own creations a different term rather than trying to take it from the existing holder.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Considering the term drake is already taken perhaps it would be easier to just give your own creations a different term rather than trying to take it from the existing holder.

Or maybe one user shouldn't be able to monopolize a generic draconic term for everyone who uses the site, especially when every other dragon term on DC is generalized and fantasy typical? Even if you can't define a 'perfect' drake, it's pretty clear that Dove's version is NOT typical. Her very strict idea of the word should not impact other user's ability to use the word. It would certainly be easier to concede use of the word, but I do not think it would be at all fair to do so. Would be one thing if she made up her own name for the breed, but she chose to claim a name as standard in dragon lore as wyvern and lung...

 

@Earthgirl: Yah, I think that would be best. The general drake could be something along the lines of "Dragons smaller than a typical dragon, but larger than a pygmy. Generally unintelligent, the most animalistic dragons are more intelligent than the smartest drakes. Quadrapedal, or may not have wings." I think that'd cover 90% of what people consider drake to mean...? And then there could be a sub-section beneath that detailing Dove's subspecies.

Edited March 21, 2013 by angelicdragonpuppy

[TJ09]

They have to be Dove's drakes or they can't be drakes.

I think you're missing the part where Glorydrakes don't fit Dove's definition.

 

Therefore your statement is false.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

I think you're missing the part where Glorydrakes don't fit Dove's definition.

 

Therefore your statement is false.

Then can this description of what a drake is in the dragon request's guidelines please be changed? Because nothing in it tells me it's ok to have a drake that is not a Dove drake. You're saying one thing, and your opinion is final, but the guidelines of the section (and people who frequent the section) are saying quite the other, which is frustrating.

 

Drake: Drakes are a species created by Dovealove. They have a certain set of characteristics and can only breed with other drakes.

Drakes always:

1. Possess no opposable digits on any limb (no thumbs)

2. Have antlers which are shed bi-annually

3. Are extremely good natured, obedient and eager to please

4. Are no smarter than your average dog, have short attention spans and tend to never forget training, despite the fact that it takes a long time to cement it in their minds.

5. Are small, ranging in size between the size of a cat and as big as a husky.

6. Are found in the same basic body plan as the ocredrake varieties, which are the most basal forms.

Drakes usually:

1. Have branched antlers.

2. Have only one wing finger and a sail of struts that make the membrane of the wing follow along the tail

3. Have black eyes.

4. Have three toes.

Example: Orchedrake by Dovealove and Pokemonfan13.

Edited March 21, 2013 by angelicdragonpuppy

[Fiona]

I am fine with relaxing the definition of drake to be more flexible (perhaps just leaving it as a smaller, less intelligent cousin species).

Since he already said he'd be fine with this sort of definition change, maybe the definition of a drake can be edited to reflect this? The main points being, they are smaller cousins of dragons, they are less intelligent, and they breed with the other drake species?

[Pokemonfan13]

But please if the drake definition is to be relaxed, make it drake style wings or no wings. Not some general definition that would let people use any kind of wings they want.

[Fiona]

What were "drake style" wings again? I've tended to avoid coming up with ideas for drakes because of the narrowness of definitions. I knew I could just go read, but it was a pain.

[Spelunker]

One wing finger. I don't think "proper drake wings" should be a requirement.

[Pokemonfan13]

One finger, and optionally struts down the tail. <3