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angelicdragonpuppy

Differentiate between Draks and Drakes

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Once upon a time, a breed called Ochredrakes were invented. They had very specific features--antlers, single-fingered wings, limited intelligence--and were thus made into their own breeding group when they were added to DC. However, this specific group of 'drakes' was then established as the default meaning of Drake in the world of DC, booting out the traditional interpretation of Drakes as wingless westerns.

 

...My suggestion is to change this, and let Dove's Drakes be Dove's Drakes and Drakes be Drakes. Drakes are generally portrayed in fiction as small, wingless, dumber relatives of true dragons. They aren't required to have antlers and certainly not a special type of wing. I think it's rather annoying how a single user's very specific draconic breed has effectively taken over the word Drake in DC world. It's a major pet peeve of mine when someone wanders into a Drake concept in dragon requests and asks why the Drake doesn't have antlers or special wings. I'd much rather deal with renaming Dove's species slightly then having to go around justifying the use of the word Drake for non-Dove-Drake species.

 

...This might not be that big a deal but it has always really, really annoyed me ;___;

Edited by angelicdragonpuppy

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Or make a new name for dumb wingless dragons? It seems to me that drak and drake are too similar.

Dumb wingless dragons are traditionally known as drakes. Forcing the term drake to bend to the term drak is liking forcing amphiptere or sea serpent to bend to some made up word.

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Yeah, if either are to be renamed, I think draks/drakes need a completely different name than changing the traditional drakes. I am not good at names myself, unfortunately, so I doubt I will contribute much to any possible rename.

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This really bugged and still bugs me, drakes have always been drakes, and honestly it was here the first time that I met the "draks", never heard of those before.

 

And reading from Poké's comment, I'm against changing a traditional name just because it sounds too similar to another name.

Edited by Vaati

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Once upon a time, a breed called Draks were invented. They had very specific features--antlers, single-fingered wings, limited intelligence--and were thus made into their own breeding group when they were added to DC. However, the name Drak was considered to look too much like a typo of Drake and, accordingly, the breed was renamed to Drakes as far as in-game releases were concerned.

 

...My suggestion is to change this, and let Draks be Draks and Drakes be Drakes. Drakes are generally portrayed in fiction as small, wingless, dumber relatives of true dragons. They aren't required to have antlers and certainly not a special type of wing. I think it's rather annoying how a correction of a non-existant typo has let Draks effectively take over the word Drake in DC world. It's a major pet peeve of mine when someone wanders into a Drake concept in dragon requests and asks why a Drake doesn't have antlers or special wings. I'd much rather deal with the occasional person asking if it's a typo then having to go around justifying the use of the word Drake for non-Drak species.

 

...This might not be that big a deal but it has always really, really annoyed me ;___;

This is quite an incorrect "history."

 

I've looked through the original threads several times. The intended name for ochredrakes was and always has been "drake." The only time "drak" was considered was when people pointed out that "drake" was already "claimed" by a few other fantasy universes to have a different meaning. However, that's a moot point, because DC doesn't take place in an already-established canon, it has its own.

 

There is no widely-accepted meaning of drake (Wikipedia, for example, claims that in European folklore, Drakes are creatures that mix the characteristics of "fairy beings" and dragons, I would expect such a mix to not be wingless, as you suggest they are).

 

DC is not required to follow the D&D definition of drake, and drakes were not originally named "draks."

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I've seen Dolphinsong post sketches Dovealove had made for more drakes, and each one was called [insert Breed Name] Ochredrak, not [insert Breed Name] Drake/Drak. Changing the official name to Ochredrak would seemingly go along with the breeds' creators' name :3

 

Although Drake doesn't need to be changed to a different definition, as this is a separate site, it gives more potential name variation to have "drake" mean "wingless westerns" in DC.

 

Just my user posted image.

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The first post about the drakes, from May 15, 2008, calls them the "Single-stripe Ocre Drake." The obvious "Ochre" typo was corrected, but the entire thread in which the Ochres were created (32 pages) does not mention "Drak" once.

 

As I said, Dove only changed to "Drak" when people thought "Drake" couldn't be used, but the original intention is clearly "Drake."

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Thank you for the clarifications, TJ.

I don't favor the incredibly specific requirements of a drake, never have. Dragons are much more varied and yet most of them can interbreed, excepting two-headeds and pygmies. But that's a different can of worms.

 

Calling all the drakes Ochredrakes, as Dolphinsong had them, would make it clear they're a specific kind of drake and help avoid mixups between drakes and drakes.

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"Ochre" means "yellow," though, so having something like, say, a Blue Ochredrake wouldn't make any sense.

 

And wikipedia is kind of a... derpy source for dragon lore, if I might say so (I mean, if you follow wikipedia, all our wyverns don't count as such because they don't have barbed tails). I wasn't even thinking of DND when I mentioned the standard form of drakes, I was thinking of Neon Dragon's books, and William O'Connor's, and just about every other book-o-dragons I can think of. Drakes as wingless westerns is fairly common in fantasy, more common than any other idea of drakes I can think of.

 

But really, even if the name isn't changed, I would like to see DC drakes separated between "Dovealove's Drakes" and "Drakes." Right now, in the dragon requests section, Drakes are defined as:

 

Drake: Drakes are a species created by Dovealove. They have a certain set of characteristics and can only breed with other drakes.

Drakes always:

1. Possess no opposable digits on any limb (no thumbs)

2. Have antlers which are shed bi-annually

3. Are extremely good natured, obedient and eager to please

4. Are no smarter than your average dog, have short attention spans and tend to never forget training, despite the fact that it takes a long time to cement it in their minds.

5. Are small, ranging in size between the size of a cat and as big as a husky.

6. Are found in the same basic body plan as the ocredrake varieties, which are the most basal forms.

Drakes usually:

1. Have branched antlers.

2. Have only one wing finger and a sail of struts that make the membrane of the wing follow along the tail

3. Have black eyes.

4. Have three toes.

Example: Orchedrake by Dovealove and Pokemonfan13.

 

And that is the only definition listed. THAT is what I want to get rid of. I want to be able to make Mud Drakes and Carcass Drakes and Webbed Drakes without constantly having people asking "but where are the antlers/spiny wings/three toes??" There should be Dove's Drakes (separate breeding group) and normal Drakes (breed with normal dragon breeds). I mean, maybe I'm seeing a problem that doesn't exist, but I just want ASSURANCE that something called a drake can get into the cave without having to conform to Dove's drake's standards.

 

Edit: changed the first post a bit. Sorry for the misunderstanding, TJ, but I'd heard that story so often I assumed it was fact. Regardless of the history behind it, my opinion on the current standing remains the same.

Edited by angelicdragonpuppy

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The first post about the drakes, from May 15, 2008, calls them the "Single-stripe Ocre Drake." The obvious "Ochre" typo was corrected, but the entire thread in which the Ochres were created (32 pages) does not mention "Drak" once.

 

As I said, Dove only changed to "Drak" when people thought "Drake" couldn't be used, but the original intention is clearly "Drake."

I agree with these thoughts.

 

If anything we could really use more drakes in general instead of another offshoot breed. I'm tired of seeing so many Ochre Drakes and would like to have more to play with!

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I agree with these thoughts.

 

If anything we could really use more drakes in general instead of another offshoot breed. I'm tired of seeing so many Ochre Drakes and would like to have more to play with!

I think you're missing the point of this thread, but I'm not entirely sure?

 

By the "classic" definition of the name drake, dragons like the Mints, Magmas, and Sweetlings (they're wingless westerns, guys), fit the classical definition to a T. Dove's drakes are an entirely different species with different qualifications. Why someone who knows dragon lore well would create a sub-breed and use the name of another, I will never know.

 

The point of this suggestion is to rename Dove's drakes so that other traditional drakes don't have to conform to her standards.

 

Say I want to make an Amber Drake. A brown dragon with amber accents that has no wings. Suddenly, I get a lot of people in my thread demanding that it have antlers and one-fingered wings in order to be called a drake. Then I start wondering: Will my drake even be considered for release if it's not to Dove's qualifications?

 

I really limits the pool.

 

This suggestion isn't to create ANOTHER off-shoot breed like the Ochredrakes (which have other drakes to breed with that aren't just Ochredrakes, like the Day/Night Glory). It's to rename the sub-breed to something more unique, freeing up the classical definition of drake to what it should be, wingless western style dragons.

 

Because in all honesty, Dove's drakes are not drakes. It's not even about the DnD definition, but the basic definition dragon-based media has given the community for years.

 

Though I can see the problem of changing the name, because Dove's no longer around to give her consent to anything. Plus potential community backlash that every DC change incites, no matter how small.

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I personally would agree with renaming Dove's drakes to something a bit different, because its not fair to be unable to use a traditional name because a new breed claimed a name that doesn't really belong to it.

 

I mean, you could get around it by not using the word drake, but that's kinda unfair to prevent people for using a word that has a traditional meaning because an unrelated thing took over.

 

That'd be like having a 4-winged, 4 legged dragon appropriate the term "wyvern" and then everybody insisting traditional wyvern a be forced to have a new name because this new species stole it.

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Drake: Drakes are a species created by Dovealove. They have a certain set of characteristics and can only breed with other drakes.

Drakes always...

 

Example: Orchedrake by Dovealove and Pokemonfan13.

 

 

Couldn't this be resolved simply by altering the definition to specify that Ochre Drakes ... are a species created by Dovealove. ... ?

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Couldn't this be resolved simply by altering the definition to specify that Ochre Drakes ... are a species created by Dovealove. ... ?

The issue with this is that there are other "Dove Drakes" both in the cave an in the works that don't fit the Ochredrake description. Ochre means yellow, and is thus fitting for the, well, Ochredrakes, but it doesn't work for the Day Glory/Night Glory Dove's Drakes or the other Dove's Drakes species that are in the works in dragon requests. :E

 

If it can't be Drak due to it looking too much like a typo/too much like Drake, then maybe Dove's Drakes? "Dove's Ochredrakes." "Dove's Night Glory Drakes," etc etc. Could be justified by Dove being the 'discoverer' of the breed and thus attaching her name to all subsequent species of the type, if you want to think it over that deeply. I don't really care what they're called, I just want the Drake/Dove's Drake confusion and conflict to be gone.

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The "Dove's Drakes" would make sense to me, and your RP reason for the name also makes plenty of sense, IMO.

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Well... we've got dragons that have multiple fingered-wings, feather wings, antlers, no horns, etc, and they're all known as dragons. Why can't drake be a fairly large term, too?

 

That, or rename Dove's Ochedrakes OR just go by that definition of drake and use a different term for traditional drakes. v(`_`)v

Edited by Zovesta

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Well... we've got dragons that have multiple fingered-wings, feather wings, antlers, no horns, etc, and they're all known as dragons. Why can't drake be a fairly large term, too?

 

That, or rename Dove's Ochedrakes OR just go by that definition of drake and use a different term for traditional drakes. v(`_`)v

As long as its clear that there are Dove's Drakes an traditional drakes so people don't come in and complain about traditional drakes "not following the drake rules" and all.

 

Like how we have birds. Then there are eagles which are birds that share characteristics but have different type of eagles. But they're not the same as penguins, which are also birds and have different types, too.

 

 

If anything needs a rename, it has to be Dove's drakes--it's not fair to give a new name to a traditional type in favor of a new creation.

Edited by KageSora

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If anything needs a rename, it has to be Dove's drakes--it's not fair to give a new name to a traditional type in favor of a new creation.

This. All renaming traditional drakes will do is create even more confusion than there already is, and the aim of this suggestion is to reduce such confusion.

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And if we rename the ochredrakes and glorydrakes to something else (which I am still against), what do we do with the dragons that currently fit the description of a drake?

 

It doesn't quite make sense to have drakes as a small, wingless, species similar to--but separate from--dragons, then have small, wingless, dragons that are indistinguishable from drakes in every way (or, as Kila puts it, "fit the classical definition to a T").

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We don't want to use drake as a subspecies/specific breeding pool. It would allow more variety in breed names, like using wyvern in place of dragon (Bright-Breasted Wyverns instead of Bright-Breasted Dragons). In-cave dragons need not have their names changed, since some dragons may not have their body types in their names (Nebulae are Nebula Dragons, not Nebula Wyverns, even though they are wyverns).

Edited by PieMaster

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Perhaps the issue could be resolved by just doing away with the 'standards for a Drake' as proposed by Dove when she designed hers- if there is no trace of a list anywhere saying "it requires antlers and three toes and special wings" how will anyone hold you to that?

 

The Ocher/Night/Day drakes can simply be considered a subclassification of the Drake breed as a whole if they are more closely related to Drakes than Dragons, even though they have wings.

 

That would be the easy way to get around renaming things and would still open the field for new Drake (in the more traditional AND Dove style) concepts to be put forth.

 

That's my two cents, g'night :3

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