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Remote Biomes

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Well, the original idea was to have biomes that took some effort to reach.

 

It's an incentive to keep playing. Please explain the other side.

What I get from the posts is that the many of the "veterans" do not want to make any effort and want immediate access while they want others to make the effort and stay out. Their incentive? Monopolize the biomes with the consequent trading benefits.

Edited by _Sin_

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What I get from the posts is that the many of the "veterans" do not want to make any effort and want immediate access while they want others to make the effort and stay out. Their incentive? Monopolize the biomes with the consequent trading benefits.

Not so.

 

I am not at all keen on the idea anyway - but as I have said many times in relation to other suggestions - I do not DO "value" in trading, and gift more than I trade. There are many others in this thread who do likewise.

 

I want as many players as can to be able to get into any such biomes as soon as they can. I hate games with exclusive things.

 

And I do not want anyone feeling they have to collect things they don't want just to get in, either.

 

Edited multiply for multiple typefails....

Edited by fuzzbucket

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Not so.

 

I am not at all keen on the idea anyway - but as I have said many tries in relation to other suggestions - I do not DO "value" in trading, and gift more than I trade. There are many others in this thread who do likewise.

 

I want as many players as can to be able to get into any such biomes as soon as they can. I hate games with exclusive things.

 

And I do not want anyone feeling they have to collect things they don;t want just to get in, either.

I didn't say "all", I said "many" and they know who they are.

500 dragons or one year for biome makes it quite exclusive.

Collecting percentages or specific numbers of eggs per biome forces the player to collect eggs that they do not want.

And I'm giving up for now and look for a drink instead. Can't damage my liver more than this debate is doing.

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What I get from the posts is that the many of the "veterans" do not want to make any effort and want immediate access while they want others to make the effort and stay out. Their incentive? Monopolize the biomes with the consequent trading benefits.

Oh geez, not this argument again. I can tell you one thing that I'm not one of those 'lazy veterans' that trades much and would not 'monopolize' the biomes: do not lump us all on in one basket please.

 

Folks like me that have certain goals/playstyles just don't want to end up essentially 'repeating' what we have already done. If we had to do that, we may as well burn our scrolls and start over as that is what it pretty much amounts to. We want the efforts we already made to not be negated/thrown away.

 

That is why I prefer things like what Cinnamin Draconna suggested.

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Oh geez, not this argument again.  I can tell you one thing that I'm not one of those 'lazy veterans' that trades much and would not 'monopolize' the biomes: do not lump us all on in one basket please.

 

Folks like me that have certain goals/playstyles just don't want to end up essentially 'repeating' what we have already done.  If we had to do that, we may as well burn our scrolls and start over as that is what it pretty much amounts to.  We want the efforts we already made to not be negated/thrown away.

 

That is why I prefer things like what Cinnamin Draconna suggested.

this; when you're an older member, would you like to be accused of this? i wouldn't think so, so don't throw yourself into that (eventual) bucket. i don't want to start over from what i was doing anyway.

i don't collect balloons, so what if there was some sort of 'quest' to get 100 balloons or somesuch? i wouldn't be able to participate.

Edited by Ashes The Second

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Oh geez, not this argument again.  I can tell you one thing that I'm not one of those 'lazy veterans' that trades much and would not 'monopolize' the biomes: do not lump us all on in one basket please.

 

Folks like me that have certain goals/playstyles just don't want to end up essentially 'repeating' what we have already done.  If we had to do that, we may as well burn our scrolls and start over as that is what it pretty much amounts to.  We want the efforts we already made to not be negated/thrown away.

 

That is why I prefer things like what Cinnamin Draconna suggested.

We already got rewards for the efforts we made. They are called trophies and allow us slots for eggs and hatchies that almost double the numbers available for a poor newebie. We already got rewards for the time spent here: Holiday CBs. How many times do we want to be rewarded for the same "achievements"?

If we need additional biomes where to place the backlog in the Completed list, there is nothing in our past that should automatically count towards access.

Edited by _Sin_

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We already got rewards for the efforts we made. They are called trophies and allow us slots for eggs and hatchies that almost double the numbers available for a poor newebie. We already got rewards for the time spent here: Holiday CBs. How many times do we want to be rewarded for the same "achievements"?

If we need additional biomes where to place the backlog in the Completed list, there is nothing in our past that should automatically count towards access.

but that is working toward a goal -- you aren't starting from 500 dragons and going backwards.

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We already got rewards for the efforts we made. They are called trophies and allow us slots for eggs and hatchies that almost double the numbers available for a poor newebie. We already got rewards for the time spent here: Holiday CBs. How many times do we want to be rewarded for the same "achievements"?

If we need additional biomes where to place the backlog in the Completed list, there is nothing in our past that should automatically count towards access.

I see where you're coming from. You don't want the older players to be taking advantage of newer ones. But I assure you that we really don't want to do that, or have a greater advantage in trading, or are just lazy. If we really wanted that, we wouldn't have made so many different suggestions on how this could be implemented fairly, and give as much freedom as possible.

 

Personally, if when this was implemented, and it turned out I had to collect another 500 dragons- well, I'd be a little bummed out at having to repeat all that work again, but I guess I could do it. I'd feel really sorry for everyone with very strict scroll goals, though.

 

I also think that option misses some of the benefits of this suggestion. If we keep adding dragons, sooner or later we're going to have tonnes. That can be very intimidating for new players. Having them on different "levels" might make it less overwhelming, as well as add a sense of discovery and incentive to keep playing. Furthermore, it would give older players something to do. I've collected almost every breed I want, and I have no interest in lineages. Making older players re-collect dragons they already have doesn't make them want to stick around, it becomes something of a chore.

 

Anyway, I like the simplicity of "collect X number of dragons OR be a member of X amount of time."

 

I also like "collect X number of individual dragons from a specific biome".

 

I also think having "X number of hatchlings from biome on scroll" could work.

 

 

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I also think that option misses some of the benefits of this suggestion. If we keep adding dragons, sooner or later we're going to have tonnes. That can be very intimidating for new players. Having them on different "levels" might make it less overwhelming, as well as add a sense of discovery and incentive to keep playing. Furthermore, it would give older players something to do. I've collected almost every breed I want, and I have no interest in lineages. Making older players re-collect dragons they already have doesn't make them want to stick around, it becomes something of a chore.

This.

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For the person(s) saying "they're trying to scam newbies!!", I for one would use at least one egg slot to take eggs from those biomes, wait the 5 hours, and ABANDON them. Either that or take them over to the gifting threads and give them to someone who doesn't have that species yet. More than one once I collect them all myself.

 

And given how generous people are on these forums, especially once they've run out of other things to do, I expect there to be tons more doing the same.

 

So any newbie that gets "scammed" [or insert other word] by a vet, they didn't have to, they just needed to get on a gifting list instead.

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I'm a veteran AND I have a LOT of dragons.. my breeding stock is mostly caveborn.

I gift more than I trade.. sometimes depends on what i'm breeding

I take breeding requests

I take IOUs

and I've been known to give away 2nd gen metals.

 

Why do I want additional biomes? So I'll have more to do and collect. Most of what I do lately is catch caveborns off the AP, and breed for my personal projects. I collect commons of many breeds including: greens, stones, water, magi, skywing, deep sea, white, daydream, spitfire and purples. Yep, hybrid breeders, because I love the hybrids. But I also collect greens just because I like them, and I never use their Earthquake BSA. I also collect/breed reds for their Incubate BSA, Horse dragons, Stripes and Embers for my projects, and I collect any Tinsel I can get because I love the sprite.. doesn't matter if it's messy lineage, inbred or long lineaged, I'll take any Tinsel that I can find.

 

Would I trade eggs from the hidden biomes? Sure, and I'd probably gift some too, just depending on how hard things are to catch and what I might need at the time. I usually trade by need and not value, because I consider what I actually need more valuable than general rarity.

 

So I'm not looking to scam, cheat or swindle anyone. I'm just looking for more to collect and more lineages to create.

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I think cries of "scamming newbies" are not valid, for all the reasons listed by Cinnamin and PF13 above.

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I think cries of "scamming newbies" are not valid, for all the reasons listed by Cinnamin and PF13 above.

Well, obviously. That's not even an argument anymore, that's a dead horse being beaten up by the naysayers.

---

what exactly would this do to the future of biome hunting, though? like, FAAAARRR future?

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After reading the whole thread, I changed my mind. I'm now against new biomes since they could end benefiting only old players. The approach taken by TJ, i.e. releasing 7 breeds in 7 days is, for sure, a better solution.

Edited by _Sin_

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Sin, that is a special thing for DC's b-day. 7 dragons is a drop in the bucket, and a one time thing to boot.

 

This suggestion would most likely include a ~20 dragon release distributed between the biomes to start them off [~3 dragons per biome], and hopefully at least one dragon per month along with TJ's current releases. [my personal speculation and hopes, nothing official] At least it would be something like that if this suggestion is going to have a hope of helping the backlog and making things more interesting for players that have collected everything.

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Sin, that is a special thing for DC's b-day.  7 dragons is a drop in the bucket, and a one time thing to boot.

 

This suggestion would most likely include a ~20 dragon release distributed between the biomes to start them off [~3 dragons per biome], and hopefully at least one dragon per month along with TJ's current releases.  [my personal speculation and hopes, nothing official]  At least it would be something like that if this suggestion is going to have a hope of helping the backlog and making things more interesting for players that have collected everything.

You are assuming that the whole backlog is worth publishing. After several conversations with a very successful designer (that happens to be a DC player and earned several design awards in Europe and Asia and cannot accept all the work going her way) and her team, I'm under the impression that only a small percentage of the backlog will make it. So, I think that TJ knows better than we do.

Edited by _Sin_

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Oh, I agree that not everything is up to grade. But I personally suggest TJ mark things one of three ways:

1. Accepted [everything good, ready to go on site]

2. Possible [Needs work, but if improved might be accepted, new section to work on these]

3. Rejected [basic idea is bad, etc]

 

That way if the artist is still around the ones that right NOW aren't good enough could be fixed up

 

 

And this is totally off topic, but we just had an entire discussion that was basically off topic, so...

Edited by Pokemonfan13

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After reading the whole thread, I changed my mind. I'm now against new biomes since they could end benefiting only old players. The approach taken by TJ, i.e. releasing 7 breeds in 7 days is, for sure, a better solution.

If you define "older players" as players who've been here for 2+ months, then you're totally right. blink.gif Only that would probably the majority of players at all times. Heck, we have players who've been here for 5 years and more!

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If you define "older players" as players who've been here for 2+ months, then you're totally right.  blink.gif Only that would probably the majority of players at all times. Heck, we have players who've been here for 5 years and more!

No, I do not. But you knew that already, didn't you?

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We already got rewards for the efforts we made. They are called trophies and allow us slots for eggs and hatchies that almost double the numbers available for a poor newebie. We already got rewards for the time spent here: Holiday CBs. How many times do we want to be rewarded for the same "achievements"?

If we need additional biomes where to place the backlog in the Completed list, there is nothing in our past that should automatically count towards access.

Actually, you're not quite correct about the trophies. Which is understandable, because we never hear much about the "unfairness" that works the other way to benefit new players.

 

It used to be that scroll limits were less and the eggs and hatchling limits were tied together so that you couldn't get more of one if you were maxed on the other - and they didn't increase. Which, of course, made dragon collecting much more difficult than now. Eggs hatched at no earlier than 3.5 days, not 4, and hatchlings grew up no earlier than 3.5 days, not 4. So we now already have a day off that we didn't have then. We had no incubate, so unless you grabbed a low-time egg from the AP (which was not the incu-hatch factory it is these days), it was 7 days to raise an egg, not the 5 you can do it in now. We had no teleport, so lots of people didn't trade, so there wasn't the widespread trading an egg for hatchlings thing we have now that bumps up dragon count.

 

So I may have my reward in the form of a Gold trophy, but new players will get that, too, eventually. Only they'll do it with a fraction of the work and time that I had to put in. So, in a matter of months, a new player can have 21 spots on their scroll, where as I collected for years before I got that.

 

So when a new player gets a Gold trophy, their achievement and my achievement are not the same. Because my getting to 500 dragons was way harder than them doing that.

 

That doesn't mean that I'm necessarily in favor of this suggestion or that, if I eventually do support it that I want it to be based on trophies. But unless you're going to advocate that a bunch of obstacles get thrown in their path, then when it comes to me and a new player, I'm actually the one with the short end of the stick here.

 

Which is fine, because things shake out that way for new players sometimes and sometimes it shakes out in favor of older players. But presenting newer players as "poor newbies" is hardly accurate.

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So I may have my reward in the form of a Gold trophy, but new players will get that, too, eventually. Only they'll do it with a fraction of the work and time that I had to put in. So, in a matter of months, a new player can have 21 spots on their scroll, where as I collected for years before I got that.

Oh my I feel old now. I remember being locked by hatchlings and that extra bred egg slot tongue.gif Newbies do have it a little better and a little worse now. You lose the 5th bred egg slot, but you also gain independent hatchling slots. *drags thread back on topic*

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Knowing my luck, I probably count as a veteran for these purposes so newer members will probably ignore my take on things. |: I literally have no clue what to call myself.

 

I remember when I came back after a year or two hiatus waaay back I don't even remember when. The trophies were a new thing to me, and I hadn't even gotten enough for a Bronze trophy. I looked upon older members with gold trophies as a goal I could never hope to obtain, but I put my weariness aside and continued to play the game. I collected every dragon I could, wanting to collect one of every adult sprite I could. I finally reached the 500 dragon threshhold and quickly got my gold trophy. Because my playstyle allows me to just collect dozens of the same dragon, I even managed to break 1000. It's not impossible for new players to make it there. Like everything, it just takes a little time.

 

There should be nothing wrong with members who have already worked hard and reached any of the goals to unlock these biomes if this were okay'd by TJ. I don't understand why some players have problems with this. if you don't have anyone able to get to the new biomes right off, there are going to be a bunch of biomes just sitting around with eggs that won't see the light of day for however long it takes for users to get them. And then nobody will have a chance to get to the eggs, be it through AP, Trade, OR catching it themselves. I can't imagine the ratios would do good knowing there's a ton of new breeds with a total population of 0 outside the dragons TJ owns since no one can get to them.

 

Honestly, I think the best unlock solution is any idea where there are multiple ways to unlock it. That way many different play styles have a chance to unlock the biomes and not feel left out. And those biomes need to stay unlocked. It makes no sense for you to lose access to an area unless it's destroyed. Your character would remember how they got there. So even if they needed a dragon to show them the way the first time, from that point on, they would be able to lead one of the dragons they already have to that location.

 

I don't see it as elitism that older users would be able to unlock the biomes right away. Of course older users would unlock something first. They've been there longer and, save those users who only collect in a certain style, will probably have way more than enough to unlock the biomes by sheer scroll population alone. Because they've been here playing longer than you. It's not like older users were standing around one day and TJ walked up to them with a sack of dragons and just gave them every dragon on their scroll. Someone has to unlock them right away so the eggs there are actually taken up! It's only elietism if there is no chance for you to EVER see those eggs yourself because the biomes were ONLY made for users who have been on the site for a certain amount of time/had a certain number of dragons when the biomes appeared. I don't want everything handed to me on a silver platter so some work should have to be done in order to get there. If I or other users have already done that hard work, of course they should get the biomes. They already did the work.

 

Like I said before, I would think there should be multiple ways to get into the new biomes so that many different playstyles are allowed to get into the biomes by continuing to play how they have already been playing. There is nothing wrong with other users playing differently so you shouldn't really think it's bad that they want a way to unlock it in their own way. That way no matter how you play you're more likely to be able to unlock things eventually.

 

(I apologize in advance if I said the same thing more than once. I'm pretty stupid when I try to express myself and tend to talk in circles.)

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Count me in as a third person who thinks your response is good, Twilit. You summed it up pretty well.

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