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Vhale

Remote Biomes

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I dunno, I don't really like this idea. It forces you to raise dragons you might otherwise not want just to gain access to something. I like Waverunners a lot, but there's no reason for me to have 500 of them. 5-10 is more than enough for me, and I don't know why I should have to raise thousands of dragons I don't want just to gain access to different areas in the game.

 

Edited cause I just thought of it:

 

What about people who have only the bare minimum of dragons, i.e. one male, on female, and two frozen hatchies? (basically one of each sprite) Should they have to catch thousands of mints or low time AP eggs just to gain access when they're perfectly happy with their scroll completion? A big thing on this site is that no one forces you to play a certain way... I think this idea kinda "forces" you to play a certain way (i.e. raising a crapton of dragons) to get access to new parts of the game.

 

If there was no advantage to be gained I wouldn't care, but only a few dozen people would have very little competition in their special biome... It would probably breed resentment.

Edited by BlueSkyy

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If we do end up getting this, I don't want them to be temporarily open. I want them to be permanent additions.

 

No "you get access to this place for a month, then it closes" Just, if we have veterans or remote biomes or whatever we're going to call them, have them be permanent. Dragons dropped there will drop no where else. Nothing rare though. Golds and silvers would not drop there. Any new rares released would drop in the regular biomes. But, say we have the underground biome added. To start with TJ releases say, 4 or 5 breeds for just that place that fit the criteria of dragons that would live underground. That place would always be where you'd go to get those breeds from the cave system. Access would be through one of the other biomes, which is where the link would be.

 

And BlueSkyy, if the requirement to have access is raising 500 of anything I would be opposed too. 5? 10? Sure. Even 20. More? No way man.

Edited by Fiona BlueFire

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The less "reward" based suggestion that people were playing with (before it also got buried by philisophical arguments) was along the lines of seasonal dragons or migration. Basically, Seasonal dragons hold up their worth and interest pretty well given their limited release period. Seems like it would be possible to release biomes under the same concept. So the access would be open but not all at once, for anyone.

 

The BSAish access solution was that you needed X number of dragons (like summon) from that Biome. Once activated, they would open access to that biome for a week. Useable once a month, or some such.

Wait.... I'm sure I've misunderstood. You have to have dragons from the biome before you can unlock the biome for yourself?

 

 

On the one hand, if that's what you mean, then I like the idea. If everything there is uncommon in nature, that would wrest some trading power back from cb metals and prizes for those who can get into that biome initially.

 

From there, really, another poster said it already that gifting is very common. I do it myself, since I'm not that into lineages. A newb would probably find themselves with the right dragons very quickly (and since they can breed their own, their scroll count of the particular breed/s would quickly square itself) and get in on their own.

 

 

On the other hand, networking is big in this game. That's the only way I can explain scrolls with no trophies/bronze trophies having multiple shimmers on them already. I can't get my foot in the door on any of them, and I have a thousand something dragons and have been here for years now. With the AP the way it is (I love it!), I know I'm never going to catch any shimmer abandoned/dropped their either.

 

So if there's a big wait to get into the biomes, or something I can't access unless I catch a whole new batch of dragons. I'll get in just in time for it to be flooded with newbies who have friends in high places. And then it's not much of a "Veteran's Biome" at all.

 

 

I kinda think some combo of should be mostly in effect. Even if someone only checks their scroll on Christmas and picks up four eggs of a time, shows that they do come back to the game, even if they are slow about it. So I don't think scroll numbers or trophy level should weigh too strongly. I think you ought to at least be a member for a year and get a bronze trophy before you could be considered an experienced anything.

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And BlueSkyy, if the requirement to have access is raising 500 of anything I would be opposed too. 5? 10? Sure. Even 20. More? No way man.

Didn't the first post mention numbers in the thousands?

 

I have less that 300 dragons on my scroll... To even get to 1000, I'd need to raise over 700 dragons. That, to me, is excessive.

 

Unless somewhere else in this thread, the idea was changed from the OP?

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I don't think it's right to limit their ability to get something that someone else can get. (I'm more okay if it's a low number that they could very easily reach quickly, but not something that would takes months or more).

 

My reason? Say you just started dragcave, you go on the forums and look at all the suggestions. You find a dragon you really like the concept of, if you had to pick one dragon you wanted to see it would be that one. Then it gets announced that this dragon is going into the game and you get really excited....only to find out that it's being released in a special biome you can't get to without working towards it for several months.

Show me any goal in DC currently, that cannot be reached within a month or two of intense play.

Really, this is just a stupid strawman, the months and months that are supposedly needed to get into any goal can and will be reached pretty fast....

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BlueSkyy,

 

Your take on that has been covered very extensively in the thread already. If you wouldn't mind reading through it, you might be able to come up with a fresh take on it.

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Didn't the first post mention numbers in the thousands?

 

I have less that 300 dragons on my scroll... To even get to 1000, I'd need to raise over 700 dragons. That, to me, is excessive.

 

Unless somewhere else in this thread, the idea was changed from the OP?

That's what the first post suggested, but there are other, less extreme alternatives.

 

For example, one suggestion would be that you need to get, say, 30 dragons from a certain biome. They don't need to be different dragons- any combination would do. So if you wanted access to an advanced coast biome, you could choose to make an army of Waverunners, or get sets of every individual breed, or just pick and choose whatever your favourites from that area are.

 

If I remember, there was another similar idea where you had to get a percentage of the dragons from a biome (like 65%), but I can't quite remember. There were other suggestions, too, ranging from simple to the more complex. I don't think any of them would require you to hoard mass numbers of dragons or drastically cause other gameplay changes.

 

 

(That said, if/when veteran biomes were implemented, I don't everyone should have to start from scratch. I feel it would definitely be unfair for people with very specific scroll goals to have to collect a whole new set of dragons. I don't think having the biomes would be saying "we've been here so much longer, we're better than you!" but be a nice extra set of goals once you've gotten the hang of the game, and not be too difficult/time consuming to reach).

 

 

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Show me any goal in DC currently, that cannot be reached within a month or two of intense play.

Really, this is just a stupid strawman, the months and months that are supposedly needed to get into any goal can and will be reached pretty fast....

Right now the only goal is getting a gold trophy, and that does take more than a month of two even starting from a silver trophy.

 

I fail to see how this is a strawman? It took me several months to get from silver to gold, and that's with constantly grabbing low time eggs whenever I could, as well as throwing in some freezing. Some people are suggesting that the "veteran's biomes" be unlocked with trophy levels, be they current or additional. Additional ones are absolutely absurd in my opinion, as gold is a high enough goal as it is, and adding biome access to the current ones is still out there in my opinion because of how long it takes to get to gold to begin with. I'm not fabricating an argument out of thin-air, and it's just as valid an opinion as anyone else's. I frankly find it insulting that you're attempting to throw of my concerns by claiming that my stance is ' just a stupid strawman'.

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For example, one suggestion would be that you need to get, say, 30 dragons from a certain biome. They don't need to be different dragons- any combination would do. So if you wanted access to an advanced coast biome, you could choose to make an army of Waverunners, or get sets of every individual breed, or just pick and choose whatever your favourites from that area are.

 

If I remember, there was another similar idea where you had to get a percentage of the dragons from a biome (like 65%), but I can't quite remember. There were other suggestions, too, ranging from simple to the more complex. I don't think any of them would require you to hoard mass numbers of dragons or drastically cause other gameplay changes.

I actually don't mind either of those options. Collect everything from the Coast -> move to a new "advanced" Coast. That's a reasonable goal that can be completed and actually makes sense in terms of why a new area would magically unlock all of a sudden.

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I got curious and decided to do some counting (yes, I'm crazy).

 

There's an average of 4-5 sprites per breed (not counting eggs), some have more if they have alts (Stripes have the most with 20).  If a new person collects two adults and freezes a hatchling of at each stage (2 for gendered if there's dimorphism) of every breedable dragon that can be caught in cave (including bred-onlys like hybrids and some alts), the number of dragons they'll have by the time they finish would be about 390.

 

Throw in the unbreedables (Including NDs and Zombies and accounting for the fact you can only have two GoDs), that number goes up to 421.

 

Add Holidays (again accounting for the limits of 2 per scroll for Val and Christmas ones and including Hollies).  464

 

Now, if they got lucky enough to get one of each prize dragon variant....: 488

 

So, 12 short of the Gold trophy (which would be covered by a few months of new releases this year).

 

On that note, if this was restricted by trophy level (gold trophy required in this case), it would be completely possible for someone with a strict 'one adult of each gender, 2-3 frozen hatchlings' scroll goal to achieve it...eventually.

 

Just thought I'd put that out there for those curious.

 

Edit:  math fail

Quoting myself from the last time this topic was active to answer Blue's question. Yes, I did the math. This calculation also does not include the last release.

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I don't really support the % based requirement because while most of us would have no problem meeting the requirement it could be harder for those who are very selective about what breeds they collect. I know there was a scroll with only mints on it. Scrolls with only one or two breeds already wouldn't really have access to all the remote biomes, and maybe they wouldn't care, but why should they be locked out of all the remote biomes just because they only want to collect one or two breeds on their scroll?

 

I do support a collect x number of dragons from a biome to unlock the remote biome from it because it doesn't matter which dragons you collect from a biome, you can still unlock it.

 

I also support "get a bronze trophy and unlock all the remote biomes" or "unlock 1, 2 or 3 remote biomes with bronze trophy, unlock another 2 or 3 with silver trophy and unlock the rest with gold trophy" idea because it's nice and simple. I like a graduated unlocking because it's not just "bam. here they are" but don't like the graduated unlocking because gold trophies take a bit of doing to get. So.

 

I absolutely don't support a "everyone starts from scratch" approach because that's just ridiculous. No one would be able to get any of the new dragons for how long? because no one would have access until they met all the new requirements. And maybe they already did all that and don't want to do it again.

 

I also do not support very high requirements such as hundreds of dragons or "get x golds, y silvers, 2 gon, every holiday including next years and 50 neglecteds" or whatever that proposal was. What, are they trying to make it so only a certain kind of extreme player can get into the remote biomes? I don't see TJ adding something like this that only a small handful of people can take advantage of.

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Upon further thought, graduation based on trophies makes sense to me, because almost everyone's play style allows for them to get to gold.

 

It's hard because it's an achievement, not a "you participated, here's a trophy" sort of deal.

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Upon further thought, graduation based on trophies makes sense to me, because almost everyone's play style allows for them to get to gold.

 

It's hard because it's an achievement, not a "you participated, here's a trophy" sort of deal.

Yes but some playstyles are very selective, and you can't exactly get rid of the dragons once you've met the goal, unless you'd want to clutter up your scroll. for example, i want to collect ALL of one dragon species, have over 50000 of them (made up number), and now i have to get other dragons i don't like.

 

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Maybe you can't get rid of the extra dragons right away, but you can release them gradually as new dragons are released into the cave that you want to collect so you keep the 500 number or whatever it is you need to keep up.

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It isn't that big of a sacrifice.

 

Could trophies "ratchet"- once you got a trophy, it would never revert back, even if you released enough dragons for it to do so?

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Yes but some playstyles are very selective, and you can't exactly get rid of the dragons once you've met the goal, unless you'd want to clutter up your scroll. for example, i want to collect ALL of one dragon species, have over 50000 of them (made up number), and now i have to get other dragons i don't like.

This is another thing we've already spent a few pages discussing. The rebuttal examples are any BSA dragon. To cap out on incubates, red armies must be maintained, etc etc. Also, that the majority of the scrolls I've seen with 2 dragon limits, end up having greater than that for rares and BSA dragons. So it's already common for people to make exceptions to get "perks".

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This is another thing we've already spent a few pages discussing. The rebuttal examples are any BSA dragon. To cap out on incubates, red armies must be maintained, etc etc. Also, that the majority of the scrolls I've seen with 2 dragon limits, end up having greater than that for rares and BSA dragons. So it's already common for people to make exceptions to get "perks".

True, and I hate that it has to be that way. I think the reds could REALLY use an update, and their art makes me cringe, but I keep collecting them because they have a great BSA. T.T Purples, the same story... though I've never had their BSA work, so I don't even bother picking up purple eggs.

 

I think achievement-based unlocking, regardless of whether it's bronze-silver-gold or species/biome based, would be the best way to go. And if implemented, I'd like to see a "tracker page" that shows how far you are along at unlocking different things.

 

Example:

 

Secret Coast Biome =

6/10 species collected (and then perhaps a "checklist" showing what species you have left?)

 

Secret Forest Biome =

11/25 dragons collected (and a list of eligible breeds that count toward the unlock?)

 

Something like that.

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Purples have already had an update. x3

 

 

Vhale, do you have all this in the first post? We seem to have a lot of people posting who don't know a lot of stuff that was already discussed.

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I need to update it but it's going to take me a couple hours. I have to flip my shift midweek this week at work, so sleep is at a premium. I probably won't get to it until this weekend unless it's dead during the night shift sad.gif

 

<3 lub my old fashioned red /slaps hands

Edited by Vhale

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Right now the only goal is getting a gold trophy, and that does take more than a month of two even starting from a silver trophy.

 

I fail to see how this is a strawman? It took me several months to get from silver to gold, and that's with constantly grabbing low time eggs whenever I could, as well as throwing in some freezing. Some people are suggesting that the "veteran's biomes" be unlocked with trophy levels, be they current or additional. Additional ones are absolutely absurd in my opinion, as gold is a high enough goal as it is, and adding biome access to the current ones is still out there in my opinion because of how long it takes to get to gold to begin with. I'm not fabricating an argument out of thin-air, and it's just as valid an opinion as anyone else's. I frankly find it insulting that you're attempting to throw of my concerns by claiming that my stance is ' just a stupid strawman'.

actually, it took me 33 days starting from scratch. It was a great deal of work, and i had some great supporters... but even without that, it should NOT take longer than 2-3 months if you dedicate yourself to getting there.

 

look at my scroll: in 3 days, it will be 2 months old. I know, I am not a standard player. But anyone can do 850 dragons a year just by picking up dragons and hatching them regularly. so if it takes 1.2 years for everyone to reach a 1000 gold trophy or limit for biomes, I still dont see the issue. People are just afraid that whatever challenge is set, they wont be able to fulfill it - instead of accepting it as just that, another challenge.

Also, it seems to me that some "veterans" have gotten lazy and just dont want to collect anything more because they think they are entitled to getting anything new instantly.

 

 

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Also, it seems to me that some "veterans" have gotten lazy and just dont want to collect anything more because they think they are entitled to getting anything new instantly.

Excuse me? So me having specific tastes and goals is being 'lazy'?

 

Thanks a lot....

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Excuse me? So me having specific tastes and goals is being 'lazy'?

 

Thanks a lot....

Well, if it is an excuse for not adapting to new goals or challenges? yes.

gold trophy is a current challenge, many have already mastered. should this already entitle to get anything new instantly? some say yes, others say no. I'm in the "No" camp myself, as I like to have long-term challenges that are brought to us from the site, instead of just only personal goals.

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Well, if it is an excuse for not adapting to new goals or challenges? yes.

OOOkk....I don't agree with that at all: I don't want to have to essentially 'repeat' what I have already done. That's not a challenge...that's starting freaking over, which I, and some other's, don't want.

 

*steps away before she says something that will get her warned.

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And what if they only want two adults, two gendered hatchies (IF there is dimorphism, one if there isn't) and one ungendered?  Or what if they only want one of each sprite so they only collect one adult in the case of no dimorphism?

This is what I do. The only exceptions are the prize dragons, I have 2 adults in that case and make an exception for that, and the BSA dragons, the magis, the reds, and the pinks.

It would literally take me forever to get anything. I don't like releasing dragons and have done it only once for a female marrow. I have missed the releases and is having enough horrible time trying to get them-especially the hybrids-because I only have (with luck) two pairs with which to create a hybrid.

I have almost nothing worth giving to anyone who wants to trade a shimmerscale, and I lurk in the biomes in hopes of catching something worth it or look in the gifting threads. Hopefully if my projections are correct they'll be somewhat more common by September, I don't mind lineages so I'll prob be able to get an inbred or messy one.

I've been playing ever since the summer of 2011, I hope that somewhat counts as a veteran. I still don't have a gold trophy, I suspect I will after a few more breeds are released.

Demanding that others change their game playing style because I'm "lazy" is way out of line in my opinion. I have worked hard for every single one of my sprite, probably more so because the amount of rares I can offer are far more limited than say, someone who has 8 pairs of them.

Just my 2 cents.

Edited by ylangylang

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