ANSWERED:New Trophies

[nynaevesilverwind]

I'm not talking about overall population, but eggs generated during a given drop.

 

If I remember correctly, the cave used to produce a certain amount of eggs given the amount of people hunting. I don't know if the biomes changed that, or if it takes the total number of hunters and splits the eggs evenly, or if it even still works like that. But compensating for a growing player population in a single drop would simply mean increasing available eggs to accommodate the larger numbers of hunters that show up - a fairly straightforward number, even as people enter and leave the cave. But compensating for new egg slots in a single drop would mean determining everyone's scroll level and and adjusting accordingly.

 

So if the cave dropped 1 egg for every 3 hunters, then more hunters would simply mean more eggs, with each player being equal in the calculation. But if we adjust the eggs in that drop by trophy levels, then each person becomes a different variable.

 

I'm sure that the overall amount of dragons adjusts to whatever space people have and how it's being filled. But the question being raise was about the specific release drops. And so while I think that an influx of new players increases overall demand, in terms of new releases being made harder on some people, I think that extra egg slots would do that more than new players would, which was the argument.

When there is also the consideration of computer quality, internet speed, lag, and just the flat out capability of people to catch things under pressure, it's my belief that additional egg slots would make a minimal impact. There would likely need to be some coding changes to the cave to compensate, but I'd say that's the case with every new egg or event or any sort of change anyway. There will definitely need to be some conversation in this thread on ways to minimize the effect on the cave, but it's still worth trying to find a solution that will make everyone happy.

[nynaevesilverwind]

I am a proponent of larger limits, but I also have limited ability to catch in the Cave with new releases. I think I am not alone in this position, either, since I know I have seen comments about it from other 2000+ owners who don't have fast connections.

 

If I can catch in the first few minutes before everyone is onto a new release, I can probably catch my limit, if I'm unlocked. But Black Fridays, Tsunamis, and Speckles all caught me off guard. I finally caught up on the Tri-Horns in January, and I'm currently at 4 Speckles and 3 Tsunamis out of the 8 I want. And for the Brimstone/Olive/Blusang release, to my eternal regret, I focused on the Brimstones and Olives first because I preferred those colors. When I went to catch the Blusangs, the competition was so fierce that I never got close. I have one 2nd gen and NO CBs, and don't know how long it will take to get a pair, let alone 8. I have not benefitted from the massive quantities of Gold and Silvers I see dropping in the Cave, because I don't have the reflexes, although I finally managed to get the CB Blacks and Stripes I've chased since 2010. This is a statement of fact, not a complaint, and if you don't understand the difference, oh well! lol

 

That said, I do have 2200 dragons, 1200 of which are CB, and just as many ideas to go along with all of them. Extra slots as my scroll grows allow me to do more work on my lineages, as well as handle plans for random gifting and still pick up eggs as I need them.

 

Yes, it is frustrating to hear how someone may have picked up 30 of a new release within the first day, especially when they're trading many of them off for low time hatchies, but I'd rather have the extra slots anyway. I rarely want to drop what I'm working on to chase new eggs.

See, gifting and working on my lineage projects are the biggest reason I would love to have higher limits. As it is, I rarely catch more than 4 of a new release so that I can still breed, gift, and catch in the AP. My connection is terribly slow, and my laptop is old and decrepit, but I still manage. Either through trading or just being persistent.

[Cinnamin Draconna]

One arguement that everyone harps on is that more slots means that the fast clickers will get everything. This is only partially true.

 

Yes, fast clickers will get eggs first, but what folk seem to forget, is that once those fast clickers are egg locked, they won't be competition anymore. And IF they are trading those eggs to slower folk, well guess what, that's a GOOD thing.

 

Fast or slow doesn't mean diddly when you have at least 24 to 72 hours to catch a limited edition/holiday egg.... and forever to catch a new permanent release. If someone can't catch, trade or be gifted a limited edition egg within 72 hours, then they aren't really trying. There are LOTS of generous folk on this game that will either trade, gift and even catch for folk who are having problems catching.

[nynaevesilverwind]

One arguement that everyone harps on is that more slots means that the fast clickers will get everything. This is only partially true.

 

Yes, fast clickers will get eggs first, but what folk seem to forget, is that once those fast clickers are egg locked, they won't be competition anymore. And IF they are trading those eggs to slower folk, well guess what, that's a GOOD thing.

 

Fast or slow doesn't mean diddly when you have at least 24 to 72 hours to catch a limited edition/holiday egg.... and forever to catch a new permanent release. If someone can't catch, trade or be gifted a limited edition egg within 72 hours, then they aren't really trying. There are LOTS of generous folk on this game that will either trade, gift and even catch for folk who are having problems catching.

THIS! YES! THANKYOU!

 

This is what I've been trying so dismally to articulate. People who aren't catching, likely still won't catch, because they either aren't using all their avenues of possibility, or aren't dedicating the same amount of time. That's not to say they aren't enjoying the game, or that they're unwelcome or anything else bad, it's just the truth. More eggs slots wouldn't really change this trend, but (as I think Miyugi pointed out) it WILL mean more eggs to be gifted and and traded. Which means people who want to trade them will be able to further other scroll goals and still have some of the new dragons. Hoarders will still offer CB golds for multiple new eggs, and life will go on.

 

 

Note ~ This isn't to say that (as I've said before) there won't be kinks to work out to make sure it stays at least as fair as it is now, but it's NOT gamebreaking.

Edited March 15, 2013 by nynaevesilverwind

[dragongrrl]

^^Total Agreement!

 

If my previous post wasn't clear, I can't catch, but I still have built a good-sized scroll, and I'm not alone.

 

We're not fast clickers! We are THE PERSISTENT!

[Shadowdrake]

I'd support adding just one more egg slot for a higher level because, well, even numbers. Although I'd certainly support adding AP only slots, I'm not sure about many more hatchie slots. The huge trophy numbers would be interesting, though, even if they take years to get.

[nynaevesilverwind]

Started work on the idea sketches, should have them up within the next two days.

[love_HP]

I like the idea of Platinum, but I think the others are a bit too much. It would take years to get 8000 dragons, and t would be more frustrating than anything knowing that it would take years to get there. :|

Seconded.

Seriously, 50000 Dragons?! I wonder what is the max number of dragons on one scroll now. (I mean the one with most dragons, not the allowed limit.)

[dragongrrl]

I know there are some scrolls over 5000, and think there may be a couple in the 7-9000 dragon range, although I currently have no way of proving that. I won't mention the names I know to be over 5000, as it is up to a scroll owner if they choose to identify themselves.

 

My scroll is only two and a half years old and I am at 2200 dragons, adding 1000 dragons this last year. I expect to pass at least 3100 by the end of this year.

 

There are other players who are capable of raising at least twice what I raise in a month.

[Pixxelation]

I've been playing for 2+ years now. I have less than 1000 dragons. Why? I like to go at my own pace. I felt like I had to hoard dragons when I was working to get more egg slots. Personally, I need NO more. Limits are there for a reason. Raising them any higher is not a good idea.

[Syphoneira]

I voted for the 'Add trophies, raise limits, but limit to 10 eggs/36 hatchies' - some people, and more over time, will get to that level, although the bulk of players likely won't, least for some time, and therefore a smaller group has that benefit, some of the downsides of which could be alleviated by increasing numbers dropped in New Releases.

 

I had to think about this for a while, upsides and down, especially being one of the slower people and who can't seem to catch anything right now due to various issues, (my F-5 isn't working and my puter lags...) but, frankly, both breeders and traders often have to hold eggs/hatchies for extended periods, and this would provide lee-way for this, as well as for those who catch for others in New Releases, to gift.

 

So, overall, I think this makes sense considering the size of some of the scrolls on this site and overall has the potential to bring benefit to more than one group, in part due to the demonstrated kindness demonstrated by many, and the fact that others are advancing as well.

 

The capacity for those that do help others to increase this aid to those who have trouble catching in New Releases should help balance things out, frustrating as it already is for recipients who prefer to catch their own.

 

 

Edit: there's a potential for benefit evident to some in at least some areas beyond the obvious ones to those who have ginormous scrolls, which includes at least some of those not yet having achieved any new trophy level resulting in this suggested increased scroll capacity.

Edited March 18, 2013 by Syphoneira

[nynaevesilverwind]

I've been playing for 2+ years now. I have less than 1000 dragons. Why? I like to go at my own pace. I felt like I had to hoard dragons when I was working to get more egg slots. Personally, I need NO more. Limits are there for a reason. Raising them any higher is not a good idea.

But this is just you. Nobody would force you to hoard, but for those of us who enjoy having lots of dragons and creating ginormous lineages, this would be a godsend. It's not just about adding dragons, it's about having challenges and things to quest for those who love to do that. Do you have any other objection to this, past the fact that you personally don't want a lot of dragons?

[Syphoneira]

I'd just like to mention that not so very long ago, virtually everyone in the Cave had their scroll capacity increased.

 

Some of this increase in actual egg-carrying potential was cancelled out by new people so far having relatively few dragons essentially losing what used to be the old breeding slot and only being able to carry 4 eggs, but, importantly, they didn't lose any egg-CATCHING ability, whether from the Cave, the AP or trading/gifting.

 

Everyone else gained at least one CATCHING slot.

 

As far as I recall, (bad memory, though, lol, does anyone else remember differently?) I noticed no deleterious results from this, although fansites had to adjust for the larger numbers appearing on many scrolls and - as far as I recall, WITH the caveat of my memory being shot, so please correct if I'm wrong, and we did get the Biomes - things did start moving a little faster in the Cave and AP - anyone remember bringing a sleeping bag to the Cave prior to that?

 

Not that some of the Biomes move much now but I seem to recall the Cave not moving at all for what seemed to be hours sometimes, despite claims that it was likely simply replacement of the same egg, which was likely the case much of the time.

 

If you have several empty slots, you're more likely to pick up a Blocker, at least I am.

 

And that increase in capacity made the game more fun for me and, it seemed, everyone else having/gaining it.

 

Personally, I'd like to be able to think that one day, my ability to breed/catch and hold more eggs would increase when I went up another trophy level, and I and many people have said to one another, at various times, that even with the increase, we could use more room.

 

In my case, that's most likely to be mainly for breeding purposes, although if I can get my puter fixed up a little, I may at least be able to have some hope of catching more easily again in the Cave, although I don't see myself as ever again being able to snag metals from there as in the Good Old Days When Things Were Different, lol.

 

But it will be as always: if egg/hatchy-spaces were increased for those already at/reaching new trophy levels, some would mostly breed, some would mostly Cave-hunt and others mostly take from the AP, so that the proportion would remain roughly similar, albeit with an increased likelihood of Blockers being picked up, and if we're to get regular New Releases - hopefully raised in numbers Dropped - the 'fasties' would still fill up fast and clear off so us 'slowies' could get our chance.

 

It would mean Cave and fansite readjustments, but would it not, in fact, to be likely to have less effect than the recent Cave-wide increases did?

[Amaterasu-sama]

Before I reached my gold trophy I used to raise a lot of commons in hopes of reaching my trophy and traded a lot of uncommon/rare stuff I catched or breed for common hatchlings. I know there are many people who do this, which gives a good chance to people to get nice trades in exchange for commons. I'll accept once I reached the trophy (I'm nearing 700+ now and that when I've been inactive for 3yrs) the craze just died and now I've gone back to selective picks from cave again, because frankly, there is nothing to be gained and I don't feel the need to be a sacrificial lamb and raise dragons I don't want/need/like just to add to their ratios. If there was another (or more) trophy levels to gain, I know at least for myself I'd have continued to raise dragons with same enthusiasm in hopes of getting to the next level. It's not about increased slots alone, it's about the sense of accomplishment. Besides, most old players have way long crossed the 500 mark, it might seem like a lot of dragons, but when you've been playing over an year or several years, it's a small number. I see scrolls with over 2000 dragons often, and it would be nice to have some sort of further achievement ladder for these scrolls, because having 2000 or 3000 dragons is not the same as having 500 dragons; so a classification into higher level trophies would be great. I still don't fully manage to always utilize my hatchling slots though egg slots are always full, so I'm not sure how helpful will it be to just raise hatchling limits without egg slots. Personally I won't mind even if there are no limits at all. However when limits are raised, I do wonder how it would affect the cave drops if there are still same number of eggs to go around, since a lot of people now would be able to catch/raise more dragons than before, so a proportional increase in number of eggs being dropped would be required.

Edited March 19, 2013 by Amaterasu-sama

[Fuzzbucket]

But this is just you. Nobody would force you to hoard, but for those of us who enjoy having lots of dragons and creating ginormous lineages, this would be a godsend. It's not just about adding dragons, it's about having challenges and things to quest for those who love to do that. Do you have any other objection to this, past the fact that you personally don't want a lot of dragons?

A GODSEND ? I don't mind one way or the other - but surely you (generic) don't NEED a badge to keep you interested ??? It's hardly a challenge - the challenge can just as well be in the numbers. Or the lineages or meeting your own scroll goals.

[kerrikins]

It's only normal for a person to think "there, I achieved that!!" When it comes to badges and things, though. I mean, yes there are people who want to get to a certain number anyway, but the badge will add to the sense of achievement for some. Even TJ wasn't against the idea of more badges, though he did say no more egg slots at the time.

[Cinnamin Draconna]

Well, you see, I never had a challenge in the first place. I had my gold trophy the day they were added. So I'd LOVE new trophies, just so I could participate in the challenge.

 

While I'd love new egg slots too, even if they were AP only, it's the trophies that I want most. I've met most of my scroll goals.. I've got my lineage projects.. I take breeding requests.. but there isn't much else to do once you lock yourself with eggs each breeding/hunting cycle. New trophies would give me a goal to work towards that means something.

[purpledragonclaw]

I would like to see another trophy level added to the game. A platinum level trophy for at least 1,000 dragons (nice round number) would be a nice addition. An extra egg slot to go with that trophy would be great too, since trophies and egg slots go together.

[nynaevesilverwind]

A GODSEND ? I don't mind one way or the other - but surely you (generic) don't NEED a badge to keep you interested ??? It's hardly a challenge - the challenge can just as well be in the numbers. Or the lineages or meeting your own scroll goals.

I for one love to collect badges and have recognizable goals to meet. I also like to be able to show off my scroll, complete with badges that say "There, I accomplished this!" For those of us who care, this would be an amazing thing to happen.

[Syphoneira]

Hey, I'm one of those just here to collect dragons - another trophy would be nice if it means more slots, lol.

 

As has been pointed out, on Halloween, we can fill up to 7 slots with 'treat' dragons - and it takes 4 pairs to start a lineage... among other compelling (breeding, gifting/trading and egg-holding) reasons.

 

Edit: when will I ever get by without having to fix a typo or reconstruct a sentence, some issue noticed sometimes just AFTER I press 'send' but usually... after?

Edited March 20, 2013 by Syphoneira

[Kalamah]

It seems that those who object to raising the limits only object because they personally don't want more slots, or don't see the point in more despite what those in favor of the raise have said.

 

I think perhaps a reminder is needed that people's scroll goals and methods of play won't be too affected by raising the limits. The people who want it will be happy, and the people who don't won't be forced to raise more dragons than they want to raise. When the trophies were released there wasn't a sudden catastrophe of hoarding, as people managed to "hoard" before the trophies. There will always be faster clickers, and there will always be people like me who would just like more slots for breeding lineages.

 

And as others have said, badges and achievements (like trophies) are incentive for many. I would definitely be interested in expanding my scroll goals since I have nearly all the commons I need at the moment, but I'd get more if I had another trophy level to work toward, as would many others. Thus, less cave blocker commons = cave hunters will benefit.

Edited March 20, 2013 by Uigenna

[Aurora-Silver]

I would really welcome to raise the limits!

I often completely scroll-lock myself with 21 items and then it bothers me that I can't collect more.

 

Also, I'd love to collect more dragons of a certain species and thus I would welcome more trophies and limits.

[SkylerFarrier]

I am going to miss having a trophy to strive for, since I think I'm under 100 dragons away from Gold.

But I don't think the limits should get too high, if they get raised at all. Having an absolute cap for the eggs sounds good. If it's capped at 10, would each trophy only increase the egg limit by 1 until it hits 10?

 

Also, does 10eggs/30hatchies mean you can hold 40 dragons? Or is it an absolute limit of 30 young dragons, with a sub-limit of 10 eggs?

Edited March 20, 2013 by SkylerFarrier

[purplehaze]

 

Also, does 10eggs/30hatchies mean you can hold 40 dragons? Or is it an absolute limit of 30 young dragons, with a sub-limit of 10 eggs?

I am sure it is meant to be the same as what we have now. So 30 would be the absolute limit, with up to 10 of those 30 being eggs.

[Fsaber]

Why 30? Rise up to 300. or even 3000. Why selflimiting again?

With current AP and cave state it would be a child's play to fill'em up.

More! More! More!!!

 

PS. trololostyle

Edited March 20, 2013 by Fsaber