ANSWERED:New Trophies

[nynaevesilverwind]

Sorry I've been gone so long guys. There's been a lot going on IRL for me. My father passed away a few months back, and my mother had already been dealing with loss of cognitive abilities, so she had an especially difficult time dealing with it. My older brother with his 16 years as an AF officer probably should have been the one to deal with things like insurance companies, pension benefits, and POA for our elderly mother, but he's been too busy hiding in his bunkerfied closet anytime a car backfired, so it all got dumped on the 24 year old artist/danged liberal hippie/family mess up. AKA little ole me, who's crowning financial achievement to date was buying a run down 20 year old trailer and managing not to get behind on the mortgage. Yeah, it's been a trying few months, so forgive if my sarcasm as gotten a bit sharper in my time away. Anyway, frustrated rant aside, the long and short is that I'm back, and I'll finally have a chance to work on getting the sketches for those sprites up.

 

PLEASE READ THIS! Before you post, EVEN IF YOU'VE POSTED BEFORE, please check this post for updates. I'm updating ideas as they come up in the thread, and we've had a lot of people rehashing things that have already been addressed in this post.

 

Important! We are trying to compile data on how many users with scrolls over 1500 there are, as well as trying to track down the biggest scrolls on the site. If you have a large scroll, or if you've been collecting a large amount of dragons per month, please consider allowing us to use that data in the thread. Also, if ANYONE sees a large scroll around the site, please contact the user and ask them if we can use their statistics in our quest for more information. I believe that this will help us evaluate our projected numbers better.

 

With the number of older scrolls active, the increased ratio of long lineage projects (EPIC is only one amongst many), and being able to grab extra eggs with highter trophies, it seems to me that we need some new trophy types for the mass numbers on our scrolls. We've all seen people with 1500+ dragons on their scrolls, and as I near 1000 dragons, I really miss having that sense of something to strive for beyond just personal goals.

 

There have been some amazing ideas thrown out there. I've now added sections for each, along with possible problems that have been brought up with each. Hopefully this will let us keep the discussion going in productive ways, as we'll now be able to point to examples and have specific problems to focus on solving. You can find the list further down the page. I'm sure I've missed some great ideas, so feel free to PM me with other ideas that I may have missed! The same goes for PROs and CONs! Please let me know if you can think of additional ideas for either!

 

Also, I'm trying to change the poll. Any of you guys have a clue as to how?

 

The results from the previous poll are at the bottom for reference. The majority seemed to favor adding slots.

 

Will the egg/hatchling limit go up? - I personally would like to see that happen. I think it would give something to strive for, though I agree with Cinnamin Draconna that the egg limit should not extend past 10.

 

How many trophies total? - Below I've allowed for 9 trophies, which would mean no more would need to be made for the forseeable future. Maybe in several years the site might need more, but I think it would take the average user quite long enough. The numbers here are the ones you'll see used for the various idea layouts, but there is another number table further down in this post. Also, I've changed the number on Diamond from 20,000 to 25,000 as it makes more sense as far as rate of increase goes.

 

But isn't that an insane number of trophies to release at once? Nobody will reach the higher trophies any time soon! - Well yes, that is a lot of trophies, and my suggested levels do go very high. However, if we stagger releases then we can work toward the new goals for a while before adding another trophy. Perhaps releasing Platinum through Sapphire initially, as that would give even the biggest scrolls at least one trophy to work for. Then release Diamond 2 years later, and Mithril 2 years after that.

 

Bronze - 50 Dragons

Silver - 200 Dragons

Gold - 500 Dragons

Platinum - 1000 Dragons

Ruby - 2500 Dragons

Emerald - 6000 Dragons

Sapphire - 12000 Dragons

Diamond - 25000 Dragons

Mithril - 50000 Dragons

 

I know it seems pretty daunting to think of 25000 or 50000 dragons on a scroll, but consider that there are already people who are past Ruby and approaching Emerald. There are people on the forums considering lineage projects in the thousands of dragons. At the very least it's worth discussion.

 

 

Idea #1 ~ Upping egg AND hatchie slots with the trophies

 

Proposed levels:

 

Bronze - 50 Dragons - 5 eggs/15 hatchlings

Silver - 200 Dragons - 6 eggs/18 hatchlings

Gold - 500 Dragons - 7 eggs/21 hatchlings

Platinum - 1000 Dragons - 8 eggs/24 hatchlings

Ruby - 2500 Dragons - 9 eggs/27 hatchlings

Emerald - 6000 Dragons - 10 eggs/30 hatchlings

Sapphire - 12000 Dragons - 10 eggs/33 hatchlings

Diamond - 25000 Dragons - 10 eggs/36 hatchlings

Mithril - 50000 Dragons - 10 eggs/40 hatchlings

 

Now this idea is one that has received a lot of support, as well as a lot of detriment, so let's look at the pros and cons.

 

PRO:

 

1. Having more egg slots means you can have more eggs (obviously), which can be used to further breeding, trading, and collecting goals.

2. More hatchlings means more blockers can be picked up from the AP and incuhatched.

3. It's more incentive to reach the highest trophies!

4. You don't have to tie up all of your slots with one project, which would lend the scrolls more versatility.

5. The people most likely to reach the highest levels are also those who are most active in gifting and providing prizes for contest threads. More slots means they can do more in the dragcave community.

6. We will have an even number of egg slots!

 

CON:

 

1. More egg slots means more people locking themselves on the good eggs, especially during new releases.

2. Inequality between newbies (no trophy) and the higher levels.

3. TJ has said in the past he doesn't intend to raise egg limits.

 

 

Idea #2 ~ Upping the egg slots to 8 with Platinum, but only adding hatchling slots after that.

 

Now this one still allows for one more egg slot, but after that the increase would only be with hatchlings. This takes care of a lot of the issues that people have with continuing to raise the egg slots past Platinum.

 

Bronze - 50 Dragons - 5 eggs/15 hatchlings

Silver - 200 Dragons - 6 eggs/18 hatchlings

Gold - 500 Dragons - 7 eggs/21 hatchlings

Platinum - 1000 Dragons - 8 eggs/24 hatchlings

Ruby - 2500 Dragons - 8 eggs/26 hatchlings

Emerald - 6000 Dragons - 8 eggs/28 hatchlings

Sapphire - 12000 Dragons - 8 eggs/30 hatchlings

Diamond - 25000 Dragons - 8 eggs/32 hatchlings

Mithril - 50000 Dragons - 8 eggs/34 hatchlings

 

PRO:

 

1. We will have an even number of egg slots!

2. We would still get a new egg slot, meaning we can raise an extra dragon!

3. More hatchlings means more blockers can be picked up from the AP and incuhatched.

4. Not as much inequality between the highest players and the lowest.

 

 

CON:

 

1. TJ has said in the past he doesn't intend to raise the egg limits.

2. Not as much incentive to reach the higher trophies.

 

 

Idea #3 ~ No additional egg slots, but still adding hatchling slots.

 

Bronze - 50 Dragons - 5 eggs/15 hatchlings

Silver - 200 Dragons - 6 eggs/18 hatchlings

Gold - 500 Dragons - 7 eggs/21 hatchlings

Platinum - 1000 Dragons - 7 eggs/23 hatchlings

Ruby - 2500 Dragons - 7 eggs/25 hatchlings

Emerald - 6000 Dragons - 7 eggs/27 hatchlings

Sapphire - 12000 Dragons - 7 eggs/29 hatchlings

Diamond - 25000 Dragons - 7 eggs/31 hatchlings

Mithril - 50000 Dragons - 7 eggs/33 hatchlings

 

PRO:

 

1. More hatchlings means more blockers can be picked up from the AP and incuhatched.

2. Not as much inequality between the highest players and the lowest.

 

CON:

 

1. Not as much incentive to reach the higher trophies.

2. Uneven numbers.

 

Idea #4 ~ Adding 1 bred/AP only egg slot for each level, and adding additional hatchling spots.

 

This one is an interesting idea. By adding slots that can only be filled with an egg that has been either personally bred, or picked up from the AP, a number of previous objections have been solved.

 

Bronze - 50 Dragons - 5 eggs/15 hatchlings

Silver - 200 Dragons - 6 eggs/18 hatchlings

Gold - 500 Dragons - 7 eggs/21 hatchlings

Platinum - 1000 Dragons - 7 eggs/24 hatchlings/1 bred or AP egg

Ruby - 2500 Dragons - 7 eggs/27 hatchlings/2 bred or AP eggs

Emerald - 6000 Dragons - 7 eggs/30 hatchlings/3 bred or AP eggs

Sapphire - 12000 Dragons - 7 eggs/33 hatchlings/4 bred or AP eggs

Diamond - 25000 Dragons - 7 eggs/36 hatchlings/5 bred or AP eggs

Mithril - 50000 Dragons - 7 eggs/40 hatchlings/6 bred or AP eggs

 

PRO:

1. By having slots that can only be filled by breeding or catching in the AP, there is no concern about people locking with new releases.

2. More AP dragons will be picked up, allowing for more adventurous catching.

3. More bred eggs, even of rares, only increase the value of CBs.

4. We would still get new slots.

5. This would encourage new players to breed their dragons and would hopefully increase the overall quality of lineages.

 

CON:

1. This would require some difficult coding to make work.

2. There is potential confusion for the players (especially newbies).

3. Would be very work intensive.

 

NOTE ~ This thread was created so that we could discuss ideas, and debate about the pros and cons of this. You are all most certainly encouraged to take up the debate on whichever side you support, but please try not to fall prey to the "it's not how I play, so it shouldn't be allowed" mentality. We all have legitimate reasons to want or not want this sort of change, let's discuss this like reasonable adults and present our arguments clearly. We can't try to find compromises if we don't know everyone's objections

 

 

SPRITE SUGGESTIONS

 

1. These pretty sprites from olympe, with the new Platinum and the Mithril sprites, along with the old bronze, silver, and gold for comparison.

 

 

ALTERNATE TROPHY LEVELS

 

#1 Courtesy of dragongrrl

Bronze - 50 Dragons - 5 eggs/15 hatchlings

Silver - 200 Dragons - 6 eggs/18 hatchlings

Gold - 500 Dragons - 7 eggs/21 hatchlings

Platinum - 1000 Dragons - 8 eggs/24 hatchlings

Ruby - 2500 Dragons - 9 eggs/27 hatchlings

Emerald - 5000 Dragons - 10 eggs/30 hatchlings

Sapphire - 10,000 Dragons - 10 eggs/33 hatchlings

Diamond - 20,000 Dragons - 10 eggs/36 hatchlings

Mithril - 40,000 Dragons - 10 eggs / 40 hatchlings

 

 

#2 Courtesy of edwardelricfreak

 

Bronze - 50 Dragons - 5 eggs/15 hatchlings - 12 Freeze/5 Kill

Silver - 200 Dragons - 6 eggs/18 hatchlings - 14 Freeze/6 Kill

Gold - 500 Dragons - 7 eggs/21 hatchlings - 16 Freeze/7 Kill

Platinum - 1,000 Dragons - 8 eggs/24 hatchlings - 18 Freeze/8 Kill

Diamond - 2,500 Dragons - 8 eggs/27 hatchlings - 19 Freeze/9 Kill

Mithril - 5,000 Dragons - 8 eggs/30 hatchlings - 20 Freeze/10 Kill

Legend - 10,000 Dragons - 8 eggs/32 hatchlings - Unlimited Freeze/15 Kill

 

 

Poll #1.

 

What do you think would be ideal?

 

Leave things the way they are. [ 12 ] [5.11%]

Just add some more trophies, don't raise the limits at all. [ 44 ] [18.72%]

Add some trophies and raise the hatchie limits, but not egg limits. [ 21 ] [8.94%]

Add trophies, raise all limits, but limit to 10 eggs/30 hatchies. [ 67 ] [28.51%]

Add trophies, raise limits, but limit to 10 eggs/36 hatchies. [ 42 ] [17.87%]

Add trophies, have no limit cap, just add new limits each time. [ 49 ] [20.85%]

Total Votes: 205

 

 

 

 

List of users who have over 1,000 dragons (scroll information displayed with user's permission)

Edited December 31, 2013 by nynaevesilverwind

[blah]

TJ has said no to increasing the egg limits further. He might always change his mind, but I'm not sure it's even needed.

 

I like the idea of higher trophy levels though, even if it doesn't change the limits. And I know of at least one scroll that has reached Sapphire.

[TheGrox]

I'm sure this has been sort of suggested before?

 

But anyway. I like the idea of Platinum, but I think the others are a bit too much. It would take years to get 8000 dragons, and t would be more frustrating than anything knowing that it would take years to get there. :|

Edited March 10, 2013 by TheGrox

[nynaevesilverwind]

TJ has said no to increasing the egg limits further. He might always change his mind, but I'm not sure it's even needed.

 

I like the idea of higher trophy levels though, even if it doesn't change the limits. And I know of at least one scroll that has reached Sapphire.

I only included the egg limit increase because it seemed like something users would want as they started trying for 8000 dragons.

 

 

~~ Sapphire? Really?

[Cinnamin Draconna]

I wouldn't mind more egg slots.. but it would take a lot of convincing to get TJ to change his mind.

 

But for just the trophies, I'm all for that.. and TJ has said he'd accept higher levels without more egg slots. He told me directly, that if someone would send him the trophy sprites needed.. and they were good enough.. he'd use them.

 

I'd change these numbers some tho..

 

Bronze - 50 Dragons - 5 eggs/15 hatchlings

Silver - 200 Dragons - 6 eggs/18 hatchlings

Gold - 500 Dragons - 7 eggs/21 hatchlings

Platinum - 1000 Dragons - 8 eggs/24 hatchlings

Ruby - 2000 dragons - 9/27

Emerald - 3000 dragons - 10/30

Sapphire - 4000 dragons - 10/35

Diamond - 5000 dragons - 10/40

8k is a bit much... and more than 10 egg slots is just being greedy, but I don't see a problem with more hatchling slots.

 

[nynaevesilverwind]

I'm sure this has been sort of suggested before?

 

But anyway. I like the idea of Platinum, but I think the others are a bit too much. It would take years to get 8000 dragons, and t would be more frustrating than anything knowing that t would ate years to get there. :|

I couldn't find it in the search if it has been.

 

I've already seen a decent number of people who are past Ruby (plus if someone's already reached Sapphire, then there have to be at least a few users already at Emerald. It seems sad to reach that many dragons and have nothing to strive for except personal goals. I would love to see the trophy levels continue to increase as the site expanded. It would give new people a constant goal and level of achievement, while the oldest members who stayed loyal and on the site would have a great sense of satisfaction and accomplishment.

[Nectaris]

Here is the original thread:

 

http://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showtopic=90830

[nynaevesilverwind]

I wouldn't mind more egg slots.. but it would take a lot of convincing to get TJ to change his mind.

 

But for just the trophies, I'm all for that.. and TJ has said he'd accept higher levels without more egg slots. He told me directly, that if someone would send him the trophy sprites needed.. and they were good enough.. he'd use them.

 

I'd change these numbers some tho..

 

Bronze - 50 Dragons - 5 eggs/15 hatchlings

Silver - 200 Dragons - 6 eggs/18 hatchlings

Gold - 500 Dragons - 7 eggs/21 hatchlings

Platinum - 1000 Dragons - 8 eggs/24 hatchlings

Ruby - 2000 dragons - 9/27

Emerald - 3000 dragons - 10/30

Sapphire - 4000 dragons - 10/35

Diamond - 5000 dragons - 10/40

8k is a bit much... and more than 10 egg slots is just being greedy, but I don't see a problem with more hatchling slots.

The thing is, the way it's set up now, each new trophy has been more than double the one before. Also consider that the new trophies don't have to be introduced at once (though with the number of people getting past the 1700-2000 range increasing, a few might need to be released at once). And yes, it's a big number, but with the creation of more and more "super" lineages (like the EPIC project, and some of the higher gen EG lineages) people are getting dragons faster and faster. It's becoming more common to trade multiple hatchlings for single rare eggs, all leading up to people's scrolls getting much bigger.

 

On the front of adding eggs to the limit, I agree only taking it to 10 then increasing the hatchie limit might be much more reasonable. Assuming TJ would even want to increase the limits.

[nynaevesilverwind]

Here is the original thread:

 

http://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showtopic=90830

That's more of a badge creation thread, and doesn't really have much focus on trying to revamp the current trophies.

Edited March 10, 2013 by nynaevesilverwind

[angel1143]

I sort of agree with this and sort of don't. Increasing the amount of eggs someone can get can be sort of annoying. For example if a new release comes out, someone can take 10 eggs while there are users who can't get any. I'm not saying I can't, it's just being greedy. I think we should go to platinum though since it does increase your amount of dragons available as well as helps you strive for something. But then one will ask for another trophy and so on and so forth. Just my idea. It's good and sort of bad suggestion

[nynaevesilverwind]

I sort of agree with this and sort of don't. Increasing the amount of eggs someone can get can be sort of annoying. For example if a new release comes out, someone can take 10 eggs while there are users who can't get any. I'm not saying I can't, it's just being greedy. I think we should go to platinum though since it does increase your amount of dragons available as well as helps you strive for something. But then one will ask for another trophy and so on and so forth. Just my idea. It's good and sort of bad suggestion

I don't really see the difference between someone doing that with 10 slots and someone doing it with 8. And even without the egg increases, it would be nice to have the trophies as a milestone to strive for.

[tenyasyugan]

I do see this as different from the other trophy suggestion thread as it focuses mainly on just a specific trophy achievement.

 

While I would like to see more levels to the trophy, I agree that the egg limit should stop at ten. I mean, could you imagine having more than ten egg slots? It seems quite unwieldy, unless one is constantly gifting and trading. Ten is a nice round number. I'm not even sure if increasing hatchling count should go beyond 35. That aside, I still like this idea in general.

 

Also, I would love to see more trophy designs. The current ones are lovely, but thinking of a ruby one just makes me happy. ^w^ It makes me want to start designing some [even though I can't sprite, derp].

[nynaevesilverwind]

I do see this as different from the other trophy suggestion thread as it focuses mainly on just a specific trophy achievement.

 

While I would like to see more levels to the trophy, I agree that the egg limit should stop at ten. I mean, could you imagine having more than ten egg slots? It seems quite unwieldy, unless one is constantly gifting and trading. Ten is a nice round number. I'm not even sure if increasing hatchling count should go beyond 35. That aside, I still like this idea in general.

 

Also, I would love to see more trophy designs. The current ones are lovely, but thinking of a ruby one just makes me happy. ^w^ It makes me want to start designing some [even though I can't sprite, derp].

I think 36 hatchies would be the highest it should go, even if more trophies do eventually appear. 36 instead of 35 just to keep the whole "add three" thing going.

 

I know! I'm a decent artist, but know nothing about sprites, but the gemstone trophies I imagine would be gorgeous. I'll try to do up some concepts in the next few days, then maybe we can get some of the good spriters in to do up some model sprites.

Edited March 10, 2013 by nynaevesilverwind

[kerrikins]

I'm not sure how far this is going to go, to be honest... TJ has been pretty against upping egg/hatchie limits in the past. That said, as some of us inch towards 2k dragons, maybe he will alow for more...

 

I do have a caveat, though: some of these limits seem really really high :/ Don't forget we have newbies joining the cave. If they can only hold a few eggs at a time and others can hold up to ten it kind of makes it a bit unfair imo in terms of new releases, Halloween, trading etc. We have to find a balance between rewarding long term users and making playing so difficult for our newbies.

 

I'd love some new trophies, though! I know TJ said that was something he'd be interested in as people collect more, even if our limits don't change.

[Midnight-Skyline]

I'm only okay with platinum. The others are a bit overkill.

[Nectaris]

I'm only okay with platinum. The others are a bit overkill.

Except that I reached that one long ago. If new trophy levels are going to be added, they need to be high enough that most people are going to have to work towards them. That said, I am completely against upping the limits on number of eggs/hatchlings you can have.

[SlowHornpipe172]

I think just Platinum at 1000 and Diamond at 2500 is plenty. I don't think egg limits should be increased, personally.

[nynaevesilverwind]

I'm not sure how far this is going to go, to be honest... TJ has been pretty against upping egg/hatchie limits in the past. That said, as some of us inch towards 2k dragons, maybe he will alow for more...

 

I do have a caveat, though: some of these limits seem really really high :/ Don't forget we have newbies joining the cave. If they can only hold a few eggs at a time and others can hold up to ten it kind of makes it a bit unfair imo in terms of new releases, Halloween, trading etc. We have to find a balance between rewarding long term users and making playing so difficult for our newbies.

 

I'd love some new trophies, though! I know TJ said that was something he'd be interested in as people collect more, even if our limits don't change.

That's why I support capping at 10. I honestly don't see very much difference between having 7 slots at the holidays or drops versus having 10. I don't think it would change the game play overly much, no more than when people reach gold trophy now. Plus, consider how active you would have to be to reach that. It's the sort of thing that I think would mean a lot to the players who are at those levels, but wouldn't make much difference to the lower trophy levels.

Edited March 10, 2013 by nynaevesilverwind

[Raikielia]

I like the idea of all of them, it's nice to have a goal to aim for. I'd like higher egg limits, but at the very least + one more egg would be nice(I like even numbers so seven is just ... ugh ).

[nynaevesilverwind]

I think just Platinum at 1000 and Diamond at 2500 is plenty. I don't think egg limits should be increased, personally.

But what about the people who are already at those levels? They are out there, and the whole point is to try to keep the collecting rewarding for the players who are so active, and give the rest of the site something to strive for.

[DeathCry]

I would support the increase of badges, but not an increase of limits.

Having 21 growing dragons isn't a huge number, but it's a pretty good amount already.

[nynaevesilverwind]

I would support the increase of badges, but not an increase of limits.

Having 21 growing dragons isn't a huge number, but it's a pretty good amount already.

My only thought on that is the same as why I kept the increases in the numbers of dragons. It would be a huge help to people who like to enter contests, or who build armies, or who don't like to egg lock but who want to be able to pick up eggs for trade/lineage projects/holidays without having to stop their other projects. It's an incentive for reaching the next levels. I've noticed this brought up other times as well. Perhaps if we spaced out the increases? Something like:

 

Bronze - 50 Dragons - 5 eggs/15 hatchlings

Silver - 200 Dragons - 6 eggs/18 hatchlings

Gold - 500 Dragons - 7 eggs/21 hatchlings

Platinum - 1000 Dragons - 8 eggs/24 hatchlings

Ruby - 1750 Dragons - 8 eggs/27 hatchlings

Emerald - 3000 Dragons - 9 eggs/27 hatchlings

Sapphire - 5000 Dragons - 9 eggs/30 hatchlings

Diamond - 8000 Dragons - 10 eggs/30 hatchlings

 

Alternate raising the egg and the hatchling limits to make it slower to up the total eggs.

[purplehaze]

I am very close to the 2500 mark myself, but I am against upping the egg limits. I think a large part of the challenge of this game is trying to maximize what you can do with the slots you have available. And it really has not been all that long since the most eggs you could possibly have was 5! I am not hugely into trading, so higher hatchling limits would not do much for me.

 

In short: More trophies? Yes, definitely. Higher egg limits? No.

[Obscure_Trash]

I'm going to hesitantly not merge this with the badge/trophy suggestions thread for now.

 

Unless TJ posts to say he's re-thinking, his stance on egg limits/total limits probably hasn't changed. 21 growing things is a lot. While we can easily take care of them, I really don't think it's necessary to up the limits. Keeps us sane in the cave. ;3

 

I am okay with more trophies being added, though. Wouldn't mind at all.

[rubyshoes]

I would love more trophies and I'd also like an increased egg/overall total limits. If we start getting more new releases I'd like to have more egg slots to be able to keep up with them and still be able to keep up with some breeding/lineages.