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ANSWERED:Suggestions to improve the raffle

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Couldn't disagree more. The problem lies with people assuming that they are entitled to 2nd gens from those CBs. Newsflash - They're not. No one is, in fact, other than the owner of the CB. (Same goes for offspring from any other dragon, actually.) People can have a hope for such a thing, sure, but they are not entitled to it. An awful lot of this thread now feels like "Well if I can't have the actual prize, I'm going to try and strong-arm the system into giving me the next best thing as consolation!" There seems to be an attitude that CB owners are personally responsible for other people not winning and should "atone" for their good fortune by spreading the offspring of their prize as far as possible (ideally without ever asking anything in return), and actually, most of us do breed largely for others because a lot of owners like sharing and are not actually the awful people we're often painted to be. But we don't have to - nothing in the current game mechanics says we must share and work ourselves ragged for the masses.

Agreeing with this! The forementioned attitude is really turning me off and I see it as the main motivation behind every thread that insists the raffle has a PROBLEM, when really, any problem lies with people being the losing population.

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Couldn't disagree more. The problem lies with people assuming that they are entitled to 2nd gens from those CBs. Newsflash - They're not. No one is, in fact, other than the owner of the CB. (Same goes for offspring from any other dragon, actually.) People can have a hope for such a thing, sure, but they are not entitled to it. An awful lot of this thread now feels like "Well if I can't have the actual prize, I'm going to try and strong-arm the system into giving me the next best thing as consolation!" There seems to be an attitude that CB owners are personally responsible for other people not winning and should "atone" for their good fortune by spreading the offspring of their prize as far as possible (ideally without ever asking anything in return), and actually, most of us do breed largely for others because a lot of owners like sharing and are not actually the awful people we're often painted to be. But we don't have to - nothing in the current game mechanics says we must share and work ourselves ragged for the masses.

agreed.

 

I have nothing against prize winners. I don't care that some people are super lucky and win twice. I personally do not care if I ever get a 2nd or even 3rd or 4th gen. I've got the sprites, that's good enough for me.

 

I would still like to see something* done to help with the trading problem, because it would be nice to trade for those few things I can't seem to catch or breed but can't because so many people are only interested in low gen prizes. That's my only problem with prizes in game. Unfortunately, I think I'm in the minority there.

 

* the increased number of prizes this year should help some, but unless they breed better or even multiclucth or, idk something, it's still going to affect the market.

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I'll take it to PM if a mod asks me to, but otherwise, I don't see anything particularly inappropriate for a public forum about math. ;-)

 

I've double-checked myself online, and I'm pretty sure I'm substantially correct. The 0.72% number is the odds of any INDIVIDUAL player winning twice in a row. Like, the odds of me winning twice in a row. Ha ha, not going to happen. :-) But the odds of SOMEONE out there winning twice are far greater than the odds of one particular person doing it. For comparative purposes, the odds of SOMEONE out there winning the raffle are 100%. It's just not likely to be me. :-)

 

Real-world example: The odds of two people sharing the same birthday, barring leap years, is 1/365, or .27%. Pick any random person out of the phone book, and they have less than a 1% chance of sharing a birthday with me.

 

But if I enter a room with 22 other people in it, the odds that SOME pair of people in that room share a birthday is not .27%, and it's not 5.9%. It's 50%. No kidding. Look it up-- it's a classic example.

 

Now if we had a pool of 1000 lottery players of which 10 (1%) were, say, redheads, then the first time you drew a number, there would be a 10/1000 chance a redhead would be drawn-- in other words, a 99% chance of picking a non-redhead. If you didn't pick a redhead and you drew again, there would be a 10/999 chance of picking a redhead. The third time, a 10/998 chance. After ten drawings with no redheads there would be a 10/990 chance of picking a redhead. After 150 drawings with no redheads there would be a 10/850 chance of picking a redhead. Even if we round all that down to a 1% chance of drawing a redhead each time, that would still mean a 99% chance of NOT drawing a redhead, which means .99 to the power of however many drawings you're doing. 98% chance of picking no redheads after two drawings. 97% chance after three. 90% chance after ten. 50% even chance of having picked one or more redheads over the course of 68 drawings. And only a 22% chance of an entirely redhead-free pool of winners after 150 drawings.

 

And if 1% of the lottery players were previous winners, rather than redheads... it would then be quite likely that at least one previous winner will be among this year's winners. Even if the odds of any particular person being that lucky are quite small, overall, the odds that it will happen to SOMEone become increasingly likely the more prizes are drawn.

 

TL;DR-- No one is cheating, it's just the luck of the draw. :-)

 

But I do agree with you about the benefits of getting CB prizes to breed better than long-gen ones. I liked the idea from earlier in the thread about skewing multiclutches so that CB dragons in general have a better chance to multiclutch or a chance to multiclutch more eggs than higher-gens do.

Edited by tjekan

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Couldn't disagree more. The problem lies with people assuming that they are entitled to 2nd gens from those CBs. Newsflash - They're not. No one is, in fact, other than the owner of the CB. (Same goes for offspring from any other dragon, actually.) People can have a hope for such a thing, sure, but they are not entitled to it. An awful lot of this thread now feels like "Well if I can't have the actual prize, I'm going to try and strong-arm the system into giving me the next best thing as consolation!" There seems to be an attitude that CB owners are personally responsible for other people not winning and should "atone" for their good fortune by spreading the offspring of their prize as far as possible (ideally without ever asking anything in return), and actually, most of us do breed largely for others because a lot of owners like sharing and are not actually the awful people we're often painted to be. But we don't have to - nothing in the current game mechanics says we must share and work ourselves ragged for the masses.

AW is right on, as usual. <3

 

Rampant greed is the largest problem in the world today, and I guess the Cave is simply reflecting that, but get real, people! What ever happened to good sportsmanship?

 

I don't have any 2nd gens Tinsels or Shimmers from anybody, and don't really need any. I have plenty of beautiful dragons to keep me occupied.

 

I am just so tired of all the whining. blink.gif

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Couldn't disagree more. The problem lies with people assuming that they are entitled to 2nd gens from those CBs. Newsflash - They're not. No one is, in fact, other than the owner of the CB. (Same goes for offspring from any other dragon, actually.) People can have a hope for such a thing, sure, but they are not entitled to it. An awful lot of this thread now feels like "Well if I can't have the actual prize, I'm going to try and strong-arm the system into giving me the next best thing as consolation!" There seems to be an attitude that CB owners are personally responsible for other people not winning and should "atone" for their good fortune by spreading the offspring of their prize as far as possible (ideally without ever asking anything in return), and actually, most of us do breed largely for others because a lot of owners like sharing and are not actually the awful people we're often painted to be. But we don't have to - nothing in the current game mechanics says we must share and work ourselves ragged for the masses.

For the most part, I agree. And I do not have a 2nd gen, and am likely never to have one (except if a CB Prize owner chooses to gift). Prize owners do do that. And I've gotten several 3rd gens. None of the trades for them cost me an arm and a leg. Not so much as a finger, in truth. And the lists for 2nd gen Prizes I've gotten on? Again, they did not cost an arm and a leg. They cost me nothing major, in fact. None of them. Prize winners are NOT the bad guys of this piece. No one is. Not the people who want to create lineages with two of the prettier dragon breeds on the site, not the owners of the only way to create low gen pretty lineages, and not TJ.

 

Nor have I seen anyone SAY you guys are the bad guys. Even those who don't want previous winners to be able to win AGAIN don't think you guys are the bad guys.

 

But the fact remains: The creation of two prize dragons has created an "elite": Those who have, and those who have not. The idea of increasing the breeding rate of the CBs is to decrease that gap. No, not everyone will breed. No, not everyone will trade. No, not everyone will gift. No one has any right to make them, nor require them. No one has said that, either. Nor implied it, that I've seen.

 

The elite that has been created, and the way their elite dragon controls the trading market (whether they want it to or not!) is what people find objectionable. For that matter, several of the people IN the elite have posted, and don't like it! But that elite dragon is here now, and can't be gotten rid of. So the question becomes: how can that elite dragon be taken down a peg or two? To decrease the gap between the elite and the average player?

 

Look through trades, and you see people with 4 or 5 or 6 metals, asking for ONLY 2nd gen Prizes (or higher time metals). What happens, if 2nd gen Prizes are common enough that you can get one regularly for 3 CB metals? What happens to the trade market if things like actual Tinsel checkers are possible to be created, even if you don't own a CB prize, and can therefore bloodswap with other owners?

 

In short, what happens to that elite, if 2nd gen Prizes are taken off the table as the "elite" marker? What will they trade for, when its easy for the current "elite" to get 2nd gen Prizes? Will they still only do bloodswaps? Some will, some won't. What happens if 2nd gen Prizes are something that is not-rare to see on people's scrolls? What happens to the masses PM'ing the prize winners for 2nd gens, when 2nd gens can be gotten with a few months of hard work? When they are no harder to get than a couple of CB metals? Seriously, do you think new Prize winners will be inundated with PMs, if the average player thinks they've got a shot at a 2nd gen if they wait?

 

There will always be, in any game, those that are "better off" than others. But why do some people object so strenuously to decreasing that margin?

 

Cheers!

C4.

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I just think the more exclusives in a collecting game the more annoying it is. A big part of DC is collecting, and for many that goes beyond just the basic sprites into collecting lineages. So yes, it's rather disappointing that there are two super exclusive breeds out there that, by and large, we can never really work with. Are there lots of other pretty breeds to play with? Certainly, and we do make use of them, but that doesn't really fix the feelings of someone who wants nothing more than to make Silver Shimmer checkers or start a poem lineage with Bronze Shimmers. Obviously there are other exclusives in DC now, but I hate it every time it happens and fight against it on every front I can. Unfortunately, it looks like Old Pinks and Frills are never coming back, releases of old CB Holidays also seem terribly unlikely, and the possibility of getting multiple Snow Angel colors was shot down. Which, of course, leaves the matter of the raffle as the only one still really open for discussion.

 

That's why I'm in favor of just about any route that makes Prizes more obtainable. And I don't mean 8th gen staircases in which you get no say in the mate type or the pattern, I mean CB and low gens that have the greatest wiggle room in terms of what you can create with them. And again, they don't have to be easy to get--without some type of challenge the game would go stale pretty quickly--but the fact remains that, for the average person, getting a low gen Prize is way harder than getting a CB Metal, which is kind of sad. Also unlike CB Metals, which for the most part you can be guaranteed to get with enough hard work and patience (even those with slow connections can make Neglecteds, after all), there is no guarantee that hard work will assure you a low gen Prize - often more because lists are closed than because of price, and stay that way for a long time due to how poorly they breed.

 

So, are changes like this things that need to be done? Is real life always fair? The answer to both is no, but I still think it'd be nice to work on something in the game that does leave a lot of people feeling let down. Yes yes, there will always be whiners and people without, but I still think the concerns here are valid. Back when 2nd gen Hollies were the rarest of the rare, those eggs were still never so expensive as 2gs can be, nor the players so much like celebrities, likely because they could only breed true once a year and second of all everyone had a shot at nabbing one in the AP. But with the existence of Prizes there has come a massive gap between the usual rares and the ultra rares, one that not many can bridge -- and it would be that way even if every CB owner gifted everything they bred! There isn't just enough supply to meet the demand, which has the sad effect of rendering two very pretty breeds fully usable by only a very small proportion of players.

Edited by angelicdragonpuppy

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Couldn't disagree more. The problem lies with people assuming that they are entitled to 2nd gens from those CBs. Newsflash - They're not. No one is, in fact, other than the owner of the CB. (Same goes for offspring from any other dragon, actually.) People can have a hope for such a thing, sure, but they are not entitled to it. An awful lot of this thread now feels like "Well if I can't have the actual prize, I'm going to try and strong-arm the system into giving me the next best thing as consolation!" There seems to be an attitude that CB owners are personally responsible for other people not winning and should "atone" for their good fortune by spreading the offspring of their prize as far as possible (ideally without ever asking anything in return), and actually, most of us do breed largely for others because a lot of owners like sharing and are not actually the awful people we're often painted to be. But we don't have to - nothing in the current game mechanics says we must share and work ourselves ragged for the masses.

I agree that prize winners shouldn't be the ones who have this enormous weight on their back!

You are not a distributor of 2nd gens, you should be free to do what you want with your Cb shimmer without feeling frustated.

The preblem is here: you must not play to make others happy. Nobody should be forced to do.

 

The only way to bypass the problem is relase CB prizes in the cave after some years that they have been prizes in the raffle.

Nobody will press you so much in this way! Also your shimmer/tinsel will stay absolutely over the relased ones, like Sheriziya and I said:

 

Exclusivity: Original CB Prize owners will have a true exclusivity for about 4 years/raffles (2 years/raffles of the dragon as a prize in the raffle + 2 years/raffles possibility to choose the dragon as HM amongst a variety of other possibilities). After that I think they'll still have a certain exclusivity as they are the ones who started the original lineages. Also many of the original prize dragons are listed on the wiki and I think players will keep asking for offspring of these lineages, like others already stated. AND the prize dragons would become RARE dragons in the cave, like the Golds and Silvers so it wouldn't be like everyone can easily get them.

And with changing the name color it will always be obvious which CB prize dragon was won in the raffle (as that's what many people want for an ancestor) and which weren't.

 

 

I think hat CB owners won't stop being frusted unless this CB prizes relased would be done.

 

 

 

 

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I like the idea of Coal Prizes for those who entered the raffle but didn't win, but I have to say honestly if CB Prizes are ever released in the Cave Biomes no matter how long they have been given away in the Raffles, I would seriously quit DC.

 

Its hard enough to get a CB Gold or Silver. A CB Prize in the cave would be damn nigh impossible. SO no thank you to that one.

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I like the idea of Coal Prizes for those who entered the raffle but didn't win, but I have to say honestly if CB Prizes are ever released in the Cave Biomes no matter how long they have been given away in the Raffles, I would seriously quit DC.

 

Its hard enough to get a CB Gold or Silver. A CB Prize in the cave would be damn nigh impossible. SO no thank you to that one.

Would still be way better odds than you winning the raffle. ^^;

 

 

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Would still be way better odds than you winning the raffle. ^^;

True enough, but really I kinda like how fun the raffle is, as is. I mean yes slight sadness when I check my email and see I didn't win, but afterward I am perfectly fine to go back to my breeding, and plotting, and planning for lineages.

 

Too bouncy of a person I guess...

 

But really I mean look at the people who can catch 6 CB Metals at one time. Can you imagine how many CB Prizes they could catch if they were an in cave breed? Then the trading would be skewed further by how much 1 CB Prize on the trades would be going for...

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I like the idea of Coal Prizes for those who entered the raffle but didn't win, but I have to say honestly if CB Prizes are ever released in the Cave Biomes no matter how long they have been given away in the Raffles, I would seriously quit DC.

 

Its hard enough to get a CB Gold or Silver. A CB Prize in the cave would be damn nigh impossible. SO no thank you to that one.

Nobody said that a CB Prize should be more difficult than a CB gold/silver to take!

And it will be possible rather than impossible which means an increase of possibilities!!!!

 

You could exchange a CB gold or a CB silver. You could exchange a CB prize, too!

and than you are willing to say: "Those who caught CB prize would only require Cb golds"

and I say:

"NO! because if they can caught Cb prize they could also caught Cb gold and Silver, what's they're looking for???? an Army of Shinies CB?"

 

There are also a lot of topic where a Cb shiny could be win smile.gif

If you want to quit it's your decision, but it will not depends by the Prizes relase.

Edited by Naruhina_94

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Nobody said that a CB Prize should be more difficult than a CB gold/silver to take!

And it will be possible rather than impossible which means an increase of possibilities!!!!

 

You could exchange a CB gold or a CB silver. You could exchange a CB prize, too!

and than you are willing to say: "Those who caught CB prize would only require Cb golds"

and I say:

"NO! because if they can caught Cb prize they could also caught Cb gold and Silver, what's they're looking for???? an Army of Shinies CB?"

 

There are also a lot of topic where a Cb shiny could be win smile.gif

If you want to quit it's your decision, but it will not depends by the Prizes relase.

No need to attack me over it. Its just an opinion.

 

And really how often do you find a trade for a CB Gold or Silver that doesn't want a Neglected or a super specific lineage? What I am saying is how much people would demand for a CB Prize caught in cave. Heck of a lot more than a CB Gold or Silver would go for. Possible yes, if you have a good connection and fast fingers.

 

Again its just an opinion.

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No need to attack me over it. Its just an opinion.

 

And really how often do you find a trade for a CB Gold or Silver that doesn't want a Neglected or a super specific lineage? What I am saying is how much people would demand for a CB Prize caught in cave. Heck of a lot more than a CB Gold or Silver would go for. Possible yes, if you have a good connection and fast fingers.

 

Again its just an opinion.

Her use of a smiley face makes me think she was being excited, not aggressive xd.png

 

Anyway--why would a CB Prize go for more than a CB Metal, if they were all equally rare? Maybe at first, during the initial rush, but I imagine they'd equalize in time. Also, if things came down to CB Prizes = CB Neglecteds, that would still be awesome. Right now, Neglecteds won't always ensure you a 2g Prize, often more because people already have full lists than that they aren't worth it. So being able to swap a Neglected for a CB Prize would be a step up, especially when everyone can make Neglecteds, even if it's tough.

 

Also, at the end of the day--the goal isn't to make CB Prizes common. It's to make them (or even just their offspring) slightly less insanely difficult to get. So even if they were still very hard to get, it would be a movement in the right direction, compared to where we are now. Not to mention that 2gs would be much, much more accessible, which again would be a huge plus. ^^

 

So in summary, the ideas I'd support so far are:

- More raffle winners, for both Prizes and HMs

- Multiclutching in just about any form (rare chance for all dragons, staggered by generation of prize, BSA, etc etc)

- Better breeding ratios for CB Prizes, or simply Prizes in general (or perhaps a combination of both - guaranteed 50% for CBs and improved generally for all other Prizes)

- Eventual in-cave release several years after the owners have enjoyed exclusivity

- Consolation prize coal Shimmer (not that it would solve much but heyyy pretty Shimmer yes I want it *w*)

Edited by angelicdragonpuppy

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Her use of a smiley face makes me think she was being excited, not aggressive xd.png

 

Anyway--why would a CB Prize go for more than a CB Metal, if they were all equally rare? Maybe at first, during the initial rush, but I imagine they'd equalize in time. Also, if things came down to CB Prizes = CB Neglecteds, that would still be awesome. Right now, Neglecteds won't always ensure you a 2g Prize, often more because people already have full lists than that they aren't worth it. So being able to swap a Neglected for a CB Prize would be a step up, especially when everyone can make Neglecteds, even if it's tough.

 

Also, at the end of the day--the goal isn't to make CB Prizes common. It's to make them slightly less insanely difficult to get. So even if they were still very hard to get, it would be a movement in the right direction, compared to where we are now. Not to mention that 2gs would be much, much more accessible, which again would be a huge plus. ^^

 

So in summary, the ideas I'd support so far are:

- More raffle winners, for both Prizes and HMs

- Multiclutching in just about any form (rare chance for all dragons, staggered by generation of prize, BSA, etc etc)

- Better breeding ratios for CB Prizes, or simply Prizes in general (or perhaps a combination of both - guaranteed 50% for CBs and improved generally for all other Prizes)

- Eventual in-cave release several years after the owners have enjoyed exclusivity

- Consolation prize coal Shimmer (not that it would solve much but heyyy pretty Shimmer yes I want it *w*)

Fair enough. I can agree with everything ADP says here. Count my opinion with theirs.

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UP for Sheriziya last update:

 

New adjusted suggestion

 

Base:

 

- More raffles to spread the joy of the new prize dragons as well as the old (see the rest of the suggestion)

- Higher success rate for breeding prize dragons as reports suggest that the success rate has gone down. Opinions differ on this and I haven't seen a conclusive answer on this question from TJ yet. If you've guys have seen it, please let me know and I'll link it here.

- Adjustment to API/hatcheries to deny access to the eggs/hatchlings on the AP to prevent prize dragons from growing up through the AP and going into the wild instead of on someone's scroll. Or whatever other solution comes out of this thread.

- Release of a Coal version of the prize dragons (Mysfytt has already stated she'd be willing to to recolor the Shimmers, Marionetta has stated she won't allow a recolor of the Tinsels.) as a consolation prize for all participants except prize winners since they already have the shiny prize dragon.

- Fertility BSA for Multiclutching as suggested by TJ (or perhaps as a BSA on another dragon so that the original fertility can be kept? Please discuss that in the appropriate thread) in rework for the fertility BSA. Keep in mind Multiclutching gives (as far as I know) a maximum of 4 eggs of which we get to keep 1. These 4 eggs may be divided as followed: 4 prize dragons, 3 prize dragons and 1 kin, 2 prize dragons and 2 kins, 1 prize dragons and 3 kins, 4 kins.

- Or, instead of the rework for fertility: Olympe's multiclutch suggestions for the prize dragons only, as TJ already stated he's interested in this idea (as far as I know with this suggestion we also get to keep no more than 1 egg):

CB: Chance of breeding up to 4 eggs.

2nd gen: Chance of breeding up to 3 eggs.

3rd gen: Chance of breeding up to 2 eggs.

4th gen and higher: no multi-clutches possible (unless mated to a holiday dragon during its breeding season)

- Change the name color of the original CB prize dragon which has been given as a prize as you can see here in a lineage example (see the name "Gold Epica" in comparison to the names of the other dragons). That way it would be clear this is the dragon who was won in the raffle instead of stolen from the cave several years later.

 

Prize dragons released during the years following this last raffle:

Raffle 1: special dragon 1 for prizes (1,2 and 3) in raffle, Shimmer-scales and Tinsels retire and become available for HM as CB. All participants except prize winners get the coal-version of the prize dragon.

Raffle 2: special dragon 1 for prizes in raffle, Shimmer-Scales and Tinsels are still retired and available for HM as CB. All participants except prize winners get the coal-version of the prize dragon.

Raffle 3: special dragon 2 for prizes in raffle, special dragon 1 retires and becomes available for HM as CB, Shimmer-Scales and Tinsels become available from now on as a rare dragon in the cave. All participants except prize winners get the coal-version of the prize dragon.

Raffle 4: special dragon 2 for prizes in raffle, special dragon 1 is still retired and available for HM as CB. All participants except prize winners get the coal-version of the prize dragon.

Raffle 5: Special dragon 3 for prizes in raffle, special dragon 1 becomes available from now on as a rare dragon in the cave. Special dragon 2 becomes available for HM as CB. All participants except prize winners get the coal-version of the prize dragon.

Raffle 6: Special dragon 3 for prizes in raffle, Special dragon 2 is still available for HM as CB. All participants except prize winners get the coal-version of the prize dragon.

Raffle 7: Special dragon 4 for prizes in raffle, special dragon 2 becomes available from now on as a rare dragon in the cave, special dragon 3 becomes available for HM as CB. All participants except prize winners get the coal-version of the prize dragon.

Etc.

 

I haven't changed anything of her last suggestion, since I've got the feeling we're kinda going in circles right now with several options. If the majority here feels the above suggestion needs to be changed, I'll do that.

 

Just a little reminder of things connected to this suggestion:

 

What would be the consequences of this?

 

- Exclusivity: Original CB Prize owners will have a true exclusivity for about 4 years/raffles (2 years/raffles of the dragon as a prize in the raffle + 2 years/raffles possibility to choose the dragon as HM amongst a variety of other possibilities). After that I think they'll still have a certain exclusivity as they are the ones who started the original lineages. Also many of the original prize dragons are listed on the wiki and I think players will keep asking for offspring of these lineages, like others already stated. AND the prize dragons would become RARE dragons in the cave, like the Golds and Silvers so it wouldn't be like everyone can easily get them.

And with changing the name color it will always be obvious which CB prize dragon was won in the raffle (as that's what many people want for an ancestor) and which weren't.

 

- All players (Like Fuzz stated) have an equal chance to get something exclusive from the raffle (albeit limited to 4 years/raffles per prize dragon species), including "people with terrible connections, ancient machines, or arthritis which makes them unable to hunt well". After those first four years/raffles those people will have a chance in the cave too, but it might be limited to connections, etc.

 

- The fertility BSA Multiclutching makes it possible for prizeowners to donate/gift/whatever multiple eggs if they want it.

 

- With a fertility BSA Multiclutching instead of a general multiclutch for all dragons, prizeowners can still create their perfect lineage (as in perfect for them, not judging lineages here smile.gif ) and decide who to gift an offspring from their carefully bred lineage. They don't HAVE to use multiclutch on their lineage dragons (or whatever dragons for that matter) if they don't want to.

 

- We get new blood for prizedragons on a regular basis which will keep the flow of low-gen prize dragons as well as high-gen prize dragons going. In my personal opinion it might also help in creating lineages you might otherwise not be able to create or would have to wait months/years before you'd be able to create it.

 

- The trademarket gets balanced again. Obtaining rare dragons becomes a possibility (still with hard work) for new(er)/casual players too instead of this only being available to those who have been here long and/or can be here all the time to catch and/or breed everything they need for the high-end trades. And thus prize dragons become something all players can get at some point, instead of something that's "dangling over our head, always just out of reach".

 

- With the consolation prize the hurt feeling over the raffles will probably subside for a (greater?) part. After all, everyone wins in some way.

 

- With a consolation prize release amongst all raffle enteries, many people will also have the "Yay, new release"-feeling and, in a way, it would contribute to the monthly releases. In this case we'd have a release (albeit it limited to all raffle participants) between the Christmas release and the Valentine release. Perhaps even more people will join in the raffle event, cause after all, they'd get a new dragon whether or not they won the grand prize. (this would also mean not so much extra work for TJ instead of a completely new release to the cave, I think....)

 

- More prize dragons can be released, cause I can imagine there are a lot of spriters out there who have wonderful ideas for prize dragons. And it will give the possibility to have prize dragons with other kind of breeds, like pygmies, drakes, etc.

 

- If Olympe's suggestion is implemented instead of the fertility rework BSA Multiclutching, we'd probably get more offspring in the cave, depending on ratios, of course. Breeders wouldn't have a choice, though, so I can imagine some of them would be against that option.

 

- IMHO DC becomes a collecting game again instead of a game ruled for a greater part by the trademarket. And after all, DC did start out as a collecting game we all loved, didn't it?

 

 

 

Questions remaining

1. Will prize dragons now actually produce more prize dragons (as in ratio questions)? I don't know. Some say they breed perfectly fine, while others say they're hard to breed. Apparently this is also dependant on the mate you choose. It seems changing a mate might actually help in getting better results. I do think, though, we have a better chance to get more prize dragons into the community.

2. Will it stop shiny hatchies from growing up through the AP? That's the big question. That will only happen if a solution for that particular problem can be found, like stated in the base of my suggestion.

3. Which prize dragon should get the coal version? Do we start with only the Shimmers, which means TJ would have to give out Coal versions with the release of the prizes this year? And then with every new prize dragon, a new coal version, like I've stated now in the suggestion? That would mean the old coal versions wouldn't be available anymore, but since it's a consolation/participation prize, I'm fine with that. Or do we start with new prize dragons, as in a new breed, especially since Marionetta doesn't allow a recolor of the Tinsels.

4. Anything else that's not been answered/solved?

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Couldn't disagree more.  The problem lies with people assuming that they are entitled to 2nd gens from those CBs.  Newsflash - They're not.  No one is, in fact, other than the owner of the CB.  (Same goes for offspring from any other dragon, actually.)  People can have a hope for such a thing, sure, but they are not entitled to it.  An awful lot of this thread now feels like "Well if I can't have the actual prize, I'm going to try and strong-arm the system into giving me the next best thing as consolation!"  There seems to be an attitude that CB owners are personally responsible for other people not winning and should "atone" for their good fortune by spreading the offspring of their prize as far as possible (ideally without ever asking anything in return), and actually, most of us do breed largely for others because a lot of owners like sharing and are not actually the awful people we're often painted to be.  But we don't have to - nothing in the current game mechanics says we must share and work ourselves ragged for the masses.

I have to agree with this. No one is entitled to a 2nd gen. Prize owners can do what they want with their dragons.. they should not be bullied and harassed and given dirty looks and forced to feel like they are guilty of something.

 

What is happening here is just like what is happening in the real world. Too many people have been raised up in a 'me society'.. where everything is centered about them. They are the victim and feel entitled to get what they want and throw fits when they don't get it.

 

The exclusivity of the prize dragons should remain. No putting them into the cave after x number of years. I think the way the raffle is currently conducted... 1 entry per person for having completed a task and then having winners drawn randomly is more than sufficient to keeping it fair. I don't think that there should be "more" raffles... one per year is enough drama. I do like the idea of a coal dragon (tinsel, shimmer doesn't matter) for all who were officially entered into the raffle but didn't win one of the prizes.

Edited by WraithZephyr

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I have to agree with this. No one is entitled to a 2nd gen. Prize owners can do what they want with their dragons.. they should not be bullied and harassed and given dirty looks and forced to feel like they are guilty of something.

 

What is happening here is just like what is happening in the real world. Too many people have been raised up in a 'me society'.. where everything is centered about them. They are the victim and feel entitled to get what they want and throw fits when they don't get it.

 

I agree that prize winners shouldn't be the ones who have this enormous weight on their back!

You are not a distributor of 2nd gens, you should be free to do what you want with your Cb shimmer without feeling frustated.

The preblem is here: you must not play to make others happy. Nobody should be forced to do.

 

The only way to bypass the problem is relase CB prizes in the cave after some years that they have been prizes in the raffle.

Nobody will press you so much in this way! Also your shimmer/tinsel will stay absolutely over the relased ones, like Sheriziya and I said:

 

Exclusivity: Original CB Prize owners will have a true exclusivity for about 4 years/raffles (2 years/raffles of the dragon as a prize in the raffle + 2 years/raffles possibility to choose the dragon as HM amongst a variety of other possibilities). After that I think they'll still have a certain exclusivity as they are the ones who started the original lineages. Also many of the original prize dragons are listed on the wiki and I think players will keep asking for offspring of these lineages, like others already stated. AND the prize dragons would become RARE dragons in the cave, like the Golds and Silvers so it wouldn't be like everyone can easily get them.

And with changing the name color it will always be obvious which CB prize dragon was won in the raffle (as that's what many people want for an ancestor) and which weren't.

 

 

I think hat CB owners won't stop being frusted unless this CB prizes relased would be done.

 

Read my previous post to completly understand my point of view, please ^^

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What is happening here is just like what is happening in the real world. Too many people have been raised up in a 'me society'.. where everything is centered about them. They are the victim and feel entitled to get what they want and throw fits when they don't get it.

Yes, it is like what is happening in the real world... with all the celebrities, skewed economies, and "life isn't fair, deal with it" mentality. lD;;

 

It's a game about collecting dragons. The more types of dragons we can collect (and for many older players, lineages count as a 'type' just as much as the actual breed), the better. Again, not everything needs to be common, far from it, but a bit more accessibility would go a long way. Because it's a game and hey, I like games where hard work and patience are likely to pay off, and everyone really can have everything (or close enough to it) in time. smile.gif

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Yes, it is like what is happening in the real world... with all the celebrities, skewed economies, and "life isn't fair, deal with it" mentality. lD;;

This.

 

If I wanted to deal with those sorts of attitudes, alls I have to do is read the newspaper. Or an online article, these days.

 

Cheers!

C4.

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I'm sorry but I cannot agree that releasing the Prize dragons as an in cave dragon would help. I think it would take a very long time -- several years at least -- for a CB Prize to come any where near being equivalent in value to a CB Gold or Silver. And even if they do that does me personally no good anyway -- just gives me another dragon that is in the cave but that I will never catch. I think I have more chance of winning the raffle, honestly. At least I don't need a lightening fast connection and lightening fast reflexes to have a chance at that.

Edited by purplehaze

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UP for Sheriziya last update:

 

New adjusted suggestion

 

Base:

 

- More raffles to spread the joy of the new prize dragons as well as the old (see the rest of the suggestion)

- Higher success rate for breeding prize dragons as reports suggest that the success rate has gone down. Opinions differ on this and I haven't seen a conclusive answer on this question from TJ yet. If you've guys have seen it, please let me know and I'll link it here.

- Adjustment to API/hatcheries to deny access to the eggs/hatchlings on the AP to prevent prize dragons from growing up through the AP and going into the wild instead of on someone's scroll. Or whatever other solution comes out of this thread.

- Release of a Coal version of the prize dragons (Mysfytt has already stated she'd be willing to to recolor the Shimmers, Marionetta has stated she won't allow a recolor of the Tinsels.) as a consolation prize for all participants except prize winners since they already have the shiny prize dragon.

- Fertility BSA for Multiclutching as suggested by TJ (or perhaps as a BSA on another dragon so that the original fertility can be kept? Please discuss that in the appropriate thread) in rework for the fertility BSA. Keep in mind Multiclutching gives (as far as I know) a maximum of 4 eggs of which we get to keep 1. These 4 eggs may be divided as followed: 4 prize dragons, 3 prize dragons and 1 kin, 2 prize dragons and 2 kins, 1 prize dragons and 3 kins, 4 kins.

- Or, instead of the rework for fertility: Olympe's multiclutch suggestions for the prize dragons only, as TJ already stated he's interested in this idea (as far as I know with this suggestion we also get to keep no more than 1 egg):

CB: Chance of breeding up to 4 eggs.

2nd gen: Chance of breeding up to 3 eggs.

3rd gen: Chance of breeding up to 2 eggs.

4th gen and higher: no multi-clutches possible (unless mated to a holiday dragon during its breeding season)

- Change the name color of the original CB prize dragon which has been given as a prize as you can see here in a lineage example (see the name "Gold Epica" in comparison to the names of the other dragons). That way it would be clear this is the dragon who was won in the raffle instead of stolen from the cave several years later.

 

Prize dragons released during the years following this last raffle:

Raffle 1: special dragon 1 for prizes (1,2 and 3) in raffle, Shimmer-scales and Tinsels retire and become available for HM as CB. All participants except prize winners get the coal-version of the prize dragon.

Raffle 2: special dragon 1 for prizes in raffle, Shimmer-Scales and Tinsels are still retired and available for HM as CB. All participants except prize winners get the coal-version of the prize dragon.

Raffle 3: special dragon 2 for prizes in raffle, special dragon 1 retires and becomes available for HM as CB, Shimmer-Scales and Tinsels become available from now on as a rare dragon in the cave. All participants except prize winners get the coal-version of the prize dragon.

Raffle 4: special dragon 2 for prizes in raffle, special dragon 1 is still retired and available for HM as CB. All participants except prize winners get the coal-version of the prize dragon.

Raffle 5: Special dragon 3 for prizes in raffle, special dragon 1 becomes available from now on as a rare dragon in the cave. Special dragon 2 becomes available for HM as CB. All participants except prize winners get the coal-version of the prize dragon.

Raffle 6: Special dragon 3 for prizes in raffle, Special dragon 2 is still available for HM as CB. All participants except prize winners get the coal-version of the prize dragon.

Raffle 7: Special dragon 4 for prizes in raffle, special dragon 2 becomes available from now on as a rare dragon in the cave, special dragon 3 becomes available for HM as CB. All participants except prize winners get the coal-version of the prize dragon.

Etc.

 

I haven't changed anything of her last suggestion, since I've got the feeling we're kinda going in circles right now with several options. If the majority here feels the above suggestion needs to be changed, I'll do that.

 

Just a little reminder of things connected to this suggestion:

 

What would be the consequences of this?

 

- Exclusivity: Original CB Prize owners will have a true exclusivity for about 4 years/raffles (2 years/raffles of the dragon as a prize in the raffle + 2 years/raffles possibility to choose the dragon as HM amongst a variety of other possibilities). After that I think they'll still have a certain exclusivity as they are the ones who started the original lineages. Also many of the original prize dragons are listed on the wiki and I think players will keep asking for offspring of these lineages, like others already stated. AND the prize dragons would become RARE dragons in the cave, like the Golds and Silvers so it wouldn't be like everyone can easily get them.

And with changing the name color it will always be obvious which CB prize dragon was won in the raffle (as that's what many people want for an ancestor) and which weren't.

 

- All players (Like Fuzz stated) have an equal chance to get something exclusive from the raffle (albeit limited to 4 years/raffles per prize dragon species), including "people with terrible connections, ancient machines, or arthritis which makes them unable to hunt well". After those first four years/raffles those people will have a chance in the cave too, but it might be limited to connections, etc.

 

- The fertility BSA Multiclutching makes it possible for prizeowners to donate/gift/whatever multiple eggs if they want it.

 

- With a fertility BSA Multiclutching instead of a general multiclutch for all dragons, prizeowners can still create their perfect lineage (as in perfect for them, not judging lineages here smile.gif ) and decide who to gift an offspring from their carefully bred lineage. They don't HAVE to use multiclutch on their lineage dragons (or whatever dragons for that matter) if they don't want to.

 

- We get new blood for prizedragons on a regular basis which will keep the flow of low-gen prize dragons as well as high-gen prize dragons going. In my personal opinion it might also help in creating lineages you might otherwise not be able to create or would have to wait months/years before you'd be able to create it.

 

- The trademarket gets balanced again. Obtaining rare dragons becomes a possibility (still with hard work) for new(er)/casual players too instead of this only being available to those who have been here long and/or can be here all the time to catch and/or breed everything they need for the high-end trades. And thus prize dragons become something all players can get at some point, instead of something that's "dangling over our head, always just out of reach".

 

- With the consolation prize the hurt feeling over the raffles will probably subside for a (greater?) part. After all, everyone wins in some way.

 

- With a consolation prize release amongst all raffle enteries, many people will also have the "Yay, new release"-feeling and, in a way, it would contribute to the monthly releases. In this case we'd have a release (albeit it limited to all raffle participants) between the Christmas release and the Valentine release. Perhaps even more people will join in the raffle event, cause after all, they'd get a new dragon whether or not they won the grand prize. (this would also mean not so much extra work for TJ instead of a completely new release to the cave, I think....)

 

- More prize dragons can be released, cause I can imagine there are a lot of spriters out there who have wonderful ideas for prize dragons. And it will give the possibility to have prize dragons with other kind of breeds, like pygmies, drakes, etc.

 

- If Olympe's suggestion is implemented instead of the fertility rework BSA Multiclutching, we'd probably get more offspring in the cave, depending on ratios, of course. Breeders wouldn't have a choice, though, so I can imagine some of them would be against that option.

 

- IMHO DC becomes a collecting game again instead of a game ruled for a greater part by the trademarket. And after all, DC did start out as a collecting game we all loved, didn't it?

 

 

 

Questions remaining

1. Will prize dragons now actually produce more prize dragons (as in ratio questions)? I don't know. Some say they breed perfectly fine, while others say they're hard to breed. Apparently this is also dependant on the mate you choose. It seems changing a mate might actually help in getting better results. I do think, though, we have a better chance to get more prize dragons into the community.

2. Will it stop shiny hatchies from growing up through the AP? That's the big question. That will only happen if a solution for that particular problem can be found, like stated in the base of my suggestion.

3. Which prize dragon should get the coal version? Do we start with only the Shimmers, which means TJ would have to give out Coal versions with the release of the prizes this year? And then with every new prize dragon, a new coal version, like I've stated now in the suggestion? That would mean the old coal versions wouldn't be available anymore, but since it's a consolation/participation prize, I'm fine with that. Or do we start with new prize dragons, as in a new breed, especially since Marionetta doesn't allow a recolor of the Tinsels.

4. Anything else that's not been answered/solved?

Each of those "base suggestions" should be in its own thread (the one for more raffles already is), and the discussion since my post hasn't done much to change my opinion on that.

 

So I am going to go ahead and close this.

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I'm sorry but I cannot agree that releasing the Prize dragons as an in cave dragon would help. I think it would take a very long time -- several years at least -- for a CB Prize to come any where near being equivalent in value to a CB Gold or Silver. And even if they do that does me personally no good anyway -- just gives me another dragon that is in the cave but that I will never catch. I think I have more chance of winning the raffle, honestly. At least I don't need a lightening fast connection and lightening fast reflexes to have a chance at that.

You could still trade it.

You have no Cb metals right now?

Chances to get a CB prize are higher than just try to win it xd.png

Also there could be more 2nd gens, more easy to get! This would happen for sure.

It may takes some years, but it shold be faster than Never get them, I suppose xd.png

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