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ANSWERED:Suggestions to improve the raffle

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The POINT of multiclutching would be to spread the wealth, as you might say and reduce the perceived stranglehold on the "trade market" (ugh spit  mad.gif !)

If this were to happen - well, I would be totally against it. It would make the trading issues identified even worse. It should be like holiday dragons, if it does happen.

 

I don't see how a BSA to allow multiclutching if the owner wants to (which most would, as it would likely significantly increase the chance of them getting the egg they want, rather than a fail) could "make the trading issues even worse".

 

I'm all for forced multiclutching, but I can see how people might say that it's taking away the owner's choice of who gets the offspring a bit. So, I wouldn't mind a BSA either.

 

How would we be able to tell ? wink.gif

Users ask for change in ratios of a certain breed -> those certain dragons seem to breed a lot better/worse or drop a lot more/less. I think, unless changes were subtle, we might've been able to notice some kind of change. I never have.

Edited by TheGrox

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I don't see how a BSA to allow multiclutching if the owner wants to (which most would, as it would likely significantly increase the chance of them getting the egg they want, rather than a fail) could "make the trading issues even worse". How can optional multiclutching be worse than none at all? That makes no sense.

 

I'm all for forced multiclutching, but I can see how people might say that it's taking away the owner's choice of who gets the offspring a bit. So, I wouldn't mind a BSA either.

What I was against was the idea that eggs from a multiclutch could all be retained by the breeder. No chance of a drop to the AP for the rest of the players - total control of the "market". Just as now, but with even more trade fodder for winners to hold people to ransom with. And I think if it were a change to BSA - those players who try and get all that they can for low gens would not use it if the extras went to the AP, so that wouldn't help.

 

And for the record, while I welcome low gens and the rest, I am not a prize winner, nor do I go out trying to trade for them. I have no vested interest at all, but I do feel for ordinary players who would like to build lineages with prize dragons.

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What I was against was the idea that eggs from a multiclutch could all be retained by the breeder. No chance of a drop to the AP for the rest of the players - total control of the "market". Just as now, but with even more trade fodder for winners to hold people to ransom with. And I think if it were a change to BSA - those players who try and get all that they can for low gens would not use it if the extras went to the AP, so that wouldn't help.

Well, fair enough, the eggs from the multiclutch should definitely not all be kept by the player, in my opinion. I didn't even notice that was the suggestion. I assumed you were talking multiclutching in general, to the AP. (I probably shouldn't post when I'm not fully awake - sorry).

 

And, about the BSA, I don't know. If it didn't always kick loads of extra shinies to the AP, but gave an increased chance of being able to pick the shiny you want out of a multiclutch and not a fail, with some chance another shiny might go to the AP in the process, then I could see some low gen and CB owners using it. It's just getting the balance right. The CB and low gen owners are certainly not all as greedy as some people make them out to be, either.

Edited by TheGrox

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this is what I think about multi-clutching

if it is forced on CB owners they should get to keep all the eggs because it is their dragons

but if it is a rework of the purple dragon BSA than they keep one egg and the rest go to the AP like normal

This was the post I was referencing ! No way, IMHO !

 

And no - absolutely not everyone is greedy (I was gifted a fourth gen shimmer out of the blue myself - and I regard that as low gen, not being a 2nd gen freak !) - but some players are, and they skew things for the rest of us - if one person will pay over the odds, in the end, others end up having to....

Edited by fuzzbucket

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what I don't like about forcing multi-clutching on CBs only

is others are effecting someone else dragon that's why I'd prefer it being the Purples BAS

that way the owner is choosing to

 

also I don't really care what's done about prizes, I just don't like someone messing with anothers dragon

(I am against retiring them)

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what I don't like about forcing multi-clutching on CBs only

is others are effecting someone else dragon that's why I'd prefer it being the Purples BAS

that way the owner is choosing to

 

also I don't really care what's done about prizes, I just don't like someone messing with anothers dragon

(I am against retiring them)

But it doesn't affect the owner's DRAGON at all, it just distributes its offspring. (And I didn't realise the multiclutching was to be CB only - I'd rather see it for the breed as a whole...)

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I have a feeling that a lot of people won't like this suggestion, but what about putting breed limits on prize dragons? unsure.gif It might solve the whole 'greed' problem, and it would make it easier for all players to get a prize descendant.

 

 

(Sorry if this has already been suggested. smile.gif )

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But it doesn't affect the owner's DRAGON at all, it just distributes its offspring. (And I didn't realise the multiclutching was to be CB only - I'd rather see it for the breed as a whole...)

Trying to trade (or heck, even gift) a Prize above 5g is like pulling teeth. I don't think extras from them would be much appreciated--especially not when the idea is to have fails multiclutch, too. Goodness knows there's enough 8th gen Tinsel fails in the AP as-is. X___x

 

TJ had expressed interest in staggered multiclutching--CBs do four eggs, 2gs three, and so on while 4gs and above breed single--I think that or CB only is best.

 

But overall I would rather see better ratios and more prizes first, or an eventual in-cave release.

Edited by angelicdragonpuppy

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I have a feeling that a lot of people won't like this suggestion, but what about putting breed limits on prize dragons? unsure.gif It might solve the whole 'greed' problem, and it would make it easier for all players to get a prize descendant.

 

 

(Sorry if this has already been suggested. smile.gif )

The damage has already been done after three years of breeding. Unless you're talking about a limit of 500, there's no way for a limit to be implemented without triggering a major riot.

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I have a feeling that a lot of people won't like this suggestion, but what about putting breed limits on prize dragons? unsure.gif It might solve the whole 'greed' problem, and it would make it easier for all players to get a prize descendant.

 

 

(Sorry if this has already been suggested. smile.gif )

Then those of us who want 2gs would fight all the more fiercely to get them, since we only have a limited amount of slots and wouldn't want to use them for anything less. Prices would spike, IMO, not crash.

 

(Plus, breed limits stink to begin with)

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this is what I think about multi-clutching

if it is forced on CB owners they should get to keep all the eggs because it is their dragons

but if it is a rework of the purple dragon BSA than they keep one egg and the rest go to the AP like normal

Speaking of the BSA rework:

What if you could choose what kind of fertility to use, when you go to use it? A page could show up with 2 links:

 

Increased egg chance

Increased Multicluch chance

 

You click which one you want, and then select a dragon from your list of Breedable dragons.

I guess we could have an option in our Account Settings added that can make it so you use one all the time, kinda like a check mark box if you do not want to select which one you wanna use every time you go to breed. This also makes it optional for those who do  not want to use it.

 

Edit to add:

Regardless of which one you choose, you are still using Fertility. So, 2 different uses of Fertility do not stack, as it is that way right now.

 

I thought this would tie in with this thread. Instead of forcing Dragons to multiclutch, just let us choose to do it instead.

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I thought this would tie in with this thread. Instead of forcing Dragons to multiclutch, just let us choose to do it instead.

This was already part of my original suggestion (just putting it out here again, since several parts of this suggestion seem to keep circling back):

New adjusted suggestion

Base:

More raffles to spread the joy of the new prize dragons as well as the old (see the rest of the suggestion)

Higher success rate for breeding prize dragons as reports suggest that the success rate has gone down. Opinions differ on this and I haven't seen a conclusive answer on this question from TJ yet. If you've guys have seen it, please let me know and I'll link it here.

Adjustment to API/hatcheries to deny access to the eggs/hatchlings on the AP to prevent prize dragons from growing up through the AP and going into the wild instead of on someone's scroll. Or whatever other solution comes out of this thread.

Release of a Coal version of the prize dragons (Mysfytt has already stated she'd be willing to to recolor the Shimmers, Marionetta has stated she won't allow a recolor of the Tinsels.) as a consolation prize for all participants except prize winners since they already have the shiny prize dragon.

Fertility BSA for Multiclutching as suggested by TJ (or perhaps as a BSA on another dragon so that the original fertility can be kept? Please discuss that in the appropriate thread) in rework for the fertility BSA. Keep in mind Multiclutching gives (as far as I know) a maximum of 4 eggs of which we get to keep 1. These 4 eggs may be divided as followed: 4 prize dragons, 3 prize dragons and 1 kin, 2 prize dragons and 2 kins, 1 prize dragons and 3 kins, 4 kins.

Or, instead of the rework for fertility: Olympe's multiclutch suggestions for the prize dragons only, as TJ already stated he's interested in this idea (as far as I know with this suggestion we also get to keep no more than 1 egg):

CB: Chance of breeding up to 4 eggs.

2nd gen: Chance of breeding up to 3 eggs.

3rd gen: Chance of breeding up to 2 eggs.

4th gen and higher: no multi-clutches possible (unless mated to a holiday dragon during its breeding season)

Change the name color of the original CB prize dragon which has been given as a prize as you can see here in a lineage example (see the name "Gold Epica" in comparison to the names of the other dragons). That way it would be clear this is the dragon who was won in the raffle instead of stolen from the cave several years later.

Prize dragons released during the years following this last raffle:

Raffle 1: special dragon 1 for prizes (1,2 and 3) in raffle, Shimmer-scales and Tinsels retire and become available for HM as CB. All participants except prize winners get the coal-version of the prize dragon.

Raffle 2: special dragon 1 for prizes in raffle, Shimmer-Scales and Tinsels are still retired and available for HM as CB. All participants except prize winners get the coal-version of the prize dragon.

Raffle 3: special dragon 2 for prizes in raffle, special dragon 1 retires and becomes available for HM as CB, Shimmer-Scales and Tinsels become available from now on as a rare dragon in the cave. All participants except prize winners get the coal-version of the prize dragon.

Raffle 4: special dragon 2 for prizes in raffle, special dragon 1 is still retired and available for HM as CB. All participants except prize winners get the coal-version of the prize dragon.

Raffle 5: Special dragon 3 for prizes in raffle, special dragon 1 becomes available from now on as a rare dragon in the cave. Special dragon 2 becomes available for HM as CB. All participants except prize winners get the coal-version of the prize dragon.

Raffle 6: Special dragon 3 for prizes in raffle, Special dragon 2 is still available for HM as CB. All participants except prize winners get the coal-version of the prize dragon.

Raffle 7: Special dragon 4 for prizes in raffle, special dragon 2 becomes available from now on as a rare dragon in the cave, special dragon 3 becomes available for HM as CB. All participants except prize winners get the coal-version of the prize dragon.

Etc.

I haven't changed anything of my last suggestion, since I've got the feeling we're kinda going in circles right now with several options. If the majority here feels the above suggestion needs to be changed, I'll do that.

 

Just a little reminder of things connected to this suggestion:

What would be the consequences of this?

Exclusivity: Original CB Prize owners will have a true exclusivity for about 4 years/raffles (2 years/raffles of the dragon as a prize in the raffle + 2 years/raffles possibility to choose the dragon as HM amongst a variety of other possibilities). After that I think they'll still have a certain exclusivity as they are the ones who started the original lineages. Also many of the original prize dragons are listed on the wiki and I think players will keep asking for offspring of these lineages, like others already stated. AND the prize dragons would become RARE dragons in the cave, like the Golds and Silvers so it wouldn't be like everyone can easily get them.

And with changing the name color it will always be obvious which CB prize dragon was won in the raffle (as that's what many people want for an ancestor) and which weren't.

All players (Like Fuzz stated) have an equal chance to get something exclusive from the raffle (albeit limited to 4 years/raffles per prize dragon species), including "people with terrible connections, ancient machines, or arthritis which makes them unable to hunt well". After those first four years/raffles those people will have a chance in the cave too, but it might be limited to connections, etc.

The fertility BSA Multiclutching makes it possible for prizeowners to donate/gift/whatever multiple eggs if they want it.

With a fertility BSA Multiclutching instead of a general multiclutch for all dragons, prizeowners can still create their perfect lineage (as in perfect for them, not judging lineages here smile.gif ) and decide who to gift an offspring from their carefully bred lineage. They don't HAVE to use multiclutch on their lineage dragons (or whatever dragons for that matter) if they don't want to.

We get new blood for prizedragons on a regular basis which will keep the flow of low-gen prize dragons as well as high-gen prize dragons going. In my personal opinion it might also help in creating lineages you might otherwise not be able to create or would have to wait months/years before you'd be able to create it.

The trademarket gets balanced again. Obtaining rare dragons becomes a possibility (still with hard work) for new(er)/casual players too instead of this only being available to those who have been here long and/or can be here all the time to catch and/or breed everything they need for the high-end trades. And thus prize dragons become something all players can get at some point, instead of something that's "dangling over our head, always just out of reach".

With the consolation prize the hurt feeling over the raffles will probably subside for a (greater?) part. After all, everyone wins in some way.

With a consolation prize release amongst all raffle enteries, many people will also have the "Yay, new release"-feeling and, in a way, it would contribute to the monthly releases. In this case we'd have a release (albeit it limited to all raffle participants) between the Christmas release and the Valentine release. Perhaps even more people will join in the raffle event, cause after all, they'd get a new dragon whether or not they won the grand prize. (this would also mean not so much extra work for TJ instead of a completely new release to the cave, I think....)

More prize dragons can be released, cause I can imagine there are a lot of spriters out there who have wonderful ideas for prize dragons. And it will give the possibility to have prize dragons with other kind of breeds, like pygmies, drakes, etc.

If Olympe's suggestion is implemented instead of the fertility rework BSA Multiclutching, we'd probably get more offspring in the cave, depending on ratios, of course. Breeders wouldn't have a choice, though, so I can imagine some of them would be against that option.

IMHO DC becomes a collecting game again instead of a game ruled for a greater part by the trademarket. And after all, DC did start out as a collecting game we all loved, didn't it?

Questions remaining

1. Will prize dragons now actually produce more prize dragons (as in ratio questions)? I don't know. Some say they breed perfectly fine, while others say they're hard to breed. Apparently this is also dependant on the mate you choose. It seems changing a mate might actually help in getting better results. I do think, though, we have a better chance to get more prize dragons into the community.

2. Will it stop shiny hatchies from growing up through the AP? That's the big question. That will only happen if a solution for that particular problem can be found, like stated in the base of my suggestion.

3. Which prize dragon should get the coal version? Do we start with only the Shimmers, which means TJ would have to give out Coal versions with the release of the prizes this year? And then with every new prize dragon, a new coal version, like I've stated now in the suggestion? That would mean the old coal versions wouldn't be available anymore, but since it's a consolation/participation prize, I'm fine with that. Or do we start with new prize dragons, as in a new breed, especially since Marionetta doesn't allow a recolor of the Tinsels.

4. Anything else that's not been answered/solved?

Edited by Sheriziya

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Oh, i didn't know that you had a big post on that stuff. I'm not going to look back 10 pages of posts to see what others have said, sorry. I saw the multiclutch option, and thought I could add my post here. Maybe the fertility rework would get more ideas into it if I exposed it in this thread.

 

I do like the ability of the multiclutch to have eggs from both species in it.

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I still don't think using a BSA to give people a choice for multiclutching would make any difference. Most would either forget about it or they would refuse to use it.

 

If auto multiclutching were to happen, it would have to be staggered. I agree with angelicdragonpuppy as well, I'd like to see them breed better. Them being able to produce Prizes more often would help me (and I'm sure a ton of others) clear out my list...my Shimmer has produced a grand total of two Shimmers since August and I have three people still waiting. sad.gif

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Personally, I still like the concept of the Raffles and Prize dragons.

 

It adds a little excitement, something different, something special which various random someones will receive, no matter how slow their computer/connection/reflexes or movements might be - something people can hope for and, even if not winning, eventually get a descendent of - although the gen is generally a *major* factor...

 

 

If we'd had larger or more raffles, (without further disrupting New Releases) with larger numbers of people winning Prizes, and the Prizes had been prolific breeders which multi-clutched from the beginning, this would have eased the situation and have distorted the site/trade a good deal less and on a diminishing basis, while still retaining a 'special position' for those with CBs - but without effectively shutting so many people out without hope of ever getting the more desirable low-gens suitable for lineages, trading/swapping - limiting their capacity for engaging in the game in the same manner as those at the top of what's now seen as the DC economic tree in what's becoming a wealth-based society almost as restrictive as that in which many of us live.

 

Granted, there have always been faster catchers than others, but the drastic increase in inequality triggered by the rarity issue has been catastrophic to the game itself, particularly as it's typically those more affluent in RL who can afford the faster systems to catch what are often now not so much personally wanted-for-themselves dragons but *trade fodder* for low-gen Prizes, (to try to get on virtually unmoving lists, while Prize eggs too rarely are produced,) unlike the much larger percentage of people unable to and therefore limited in the game they play in order to get away from a RL where they can almost 'never can have nice things'.

 

Why should possibly the bulk of people who are likely already highly stressed continue endlessly playing a game in which their recreation time is consumed without much amusement or reward - and what proportion of people playing DC are not top speed players capable of catching multiple of even the rarest in the Cave and therefore not even able to dream of getting on slow-moving lists for low-gen Prizes, among the shortages?

 

Especially as it appears that issues over net neutrality apparently may result in the following additional problems:

 

(Hoping this is legal, because I'm placing this here since this has the potential to affect the game and players - drastically.)

 

https://www.aclu.org/secure/FCC_preserve_ne...y&etjid=1243548

 

Have you ever received a notice like this:

 

Dear Customer,

 

Sorry your requested website is loading slowly—Sony Music Entertainment has purchased today’s hi-speed Comcast bandwidth and it seems you are not within their target demographic. To remedy this, please select a Miley Cyrus video to watch or try loading your New York Times article again tomorrow.

 

Well time is running out—if we don’t act now, we may start seeing this all the time

 

That’s because a federal appeals court just struck down the FCC’s rules that until now have prevented Internet providers from blocking or slowing down some website content and speeding up other content.

 

In this unregulated environment, the Internet may quickly be sold to the highest bidder, chilling the free speech we now enjoy online.

 

The good news is that the court’s ruling left the door open for the FCC to fix all of this by reclassifying broadband Internet access as a telecommunications service.

 

This Thursday, we’re going to march down to the FCC office with our friends at Free Press, Demand Progress, and dozens of other organizations to deliver hundreds of thousands of petitions calling on the FCC to keep the Internet free from the heavy hand of profits and corporate objectives.

 

We need to speak louder than corporate interests in this fight to preserve the democratic nature of the Internet itself. Sign the petition now calling on the FCC to do its job and preserve the openness of the Internet.

 

(Petition at source.)

 

 

I have to admit that - while I do agree that obviously people should have control over the dragons on their scroll - I wonder why, (assuming that ratios for Prizes were to be also substantially increased,) people would worry about a relatively slight, gradual, progressive reduction in the extreme rarity and price of 2nd gens, particularly when they've been valued so appallingly high for so long that even multiples of the rarest dragons in the Cave are not sufficient to get on 2nd gen lists which, I hardly need add, are chronically stalled due to spectacularly lousy breeding among CB/lower-gen Prizes.

 

There are so few people among however many ?10s of thousands? of DC players who have (typically poorly reproducing) CB Prizes, that it would take an astounding (wouldn't even begin to guess, lol) number of multi-clutched-at-high-rate Prize eggs dropping to the AP to produce enough 2nd gens within the general population to produce enough 3rd gens that most people could be assured of, in some reasonable period of time, having at least some 4th gens in order to be able to produce the 5th gens in the twilight of acceptability, because they produce 6th gens, which make dandy scroll ornaments or curiosities in which there's now little point in breeding.

 

If the number of dragons frequently offered for 2nd gens drops over time from, say, 6-10 CB Golds? or equivalent for a perhaps monthly Prize egg production to a (far more frequent, again assuming that breeding rates greatly increased, together with multi-clutching - allowing the owners first pick of any produced Prize eggs likely then produced weekly, in this, my wild and crazy fantasy) perhaps weekly possibility of gaining 2 or 3 CB Golds (or equivalent), would that really be so painful for owners, or so grossly unfair as to obviate the damage done to the site direction away from dragon collecting for the dragons themselve, and to other players by this imbalance, and the general frustration - shared among owners, listers and others - of overall lousy breeding rates among low-gen Prizes?

 

The actual trades gained would then be fairly similar, perhaps ever better, overall, just spread among several produced dragons rather than perhaps one single egg during that period, with the odd Prize egg going to to the AP as a random gift, (like a lower-level version of that wonderful surprise occurring to the few winners of CB Prizes) a little community sharing, even if the fastest did tend to snag them - and produce 3rd gens for those who'd otherwise not be able to get them for a long time, perhaps years or even never.

 

 

I personally don't think recolours for 'the masses' would work, as far as reducing inequity or bringing DC back to a dragon collecting, rather than a dragon trading, site, because DC is a site of fanatic collectors and/or breeders.

 

Some people want one Prize descendent of every colour, others, one of every line, some are concerned with low-gens, others not, and a lot of us want a large number of whatever we like - but those which can produce babies other people will be pleased to get, whether gifted or traded.

 

 

But one thing we generally have in common is that we'd like to get new dragons ASAP - and for most of us, it's no fun if we can't get them for an extended period of time, frustration-for-fun not being our idea of recreational enjoyment/stress relief.

 

 

Offering us something similar-but-different as a consolation prize would not fix the issues with a large percentage of people effectively left standing on the outskirts of a game now rotating around incredibly rare low-gen Prizes and becoming based more on trading (and with the few capable of doing so amassing 'riches' - such as CB Golds or CB Coppers then in shorter supply generally - in order to gain them) rather than on the reason probably most joined: collecting dragons they want.

 

In the case of the Prizes, we can be pretty sure of getting something of some gen at some point, and it may not bother us as much as with the New Releases if it takes a few months to do so - but when a long-standing situation is created where whatever we can likely breed is not going to make most people happy, we're out of the gifting/trading - major - parts of the game, and if not being fast catchers, and especially if the slower people are also unable to catch New Releases when they come out, the entire game potentially becomes a time-sucking frustration, rather than something fun done to relax and recharge away from RL frustrations and inequities with which it's becoming progressively harder to cope.

 

So I'd argue for drastic increases in Prize breeding rates among the top 3 gens, according to the order suggested, with multi-clutches, and at least an improvement, however slow, being carried by a light, rather than a train, at the end of that tunnel, lol.

 

 

And, if I may, I'll quote some of what I consider to have been many good points among the posts I read back to, not having been on much of late and needing a bit of catch-up:

 

 

cyradis4:

 

...Just a note: While I love Tinsels and Shimmers and am on several 2nd gen lists, I didn't even feel a bit of disappointment when I didn't win. Why? Because the odds of winning are so absurdly small as to be infinitesimal. I suggest this, not because I have hard feelings, but because I see that others do and I feel this would help with that. Its a *game*, after all!

 

 

Increase breeding rate for JUST the CB Prizes:

- Prizes breed atrociously when compared to the total number of prizes there are. If prizes breed a Shimmer or Tinsel every other breeding, well. 2nd gens will be a LOT alot.png.png more common! The original 5 Gold Tinsels have fewer 2nd gen Tinsel offspring in three YEARS than there are CB Golds offered in trades in any given MONTH.

- Vastly increase the breeding rate of CB Prizes, and the 2nd gens will become obtainable for just two arms and a leg. Instead of both arms, both legs, the family jewels, and your first born. Assuming you can find someone with an older Tinsel who is willing to trade for something other than a 2nd gen swap.

 

I have yet to see a single person counter the breeding rate, other than a CB Tinsel owner who said that they breed "fine". Well... You've heard another Tinsel owner, who's Gold Tinsel has produced exactly 1 Tinsel in the last 12 months!

 

Cheers!

C4.

 

angelicdragonpuppy:

 

... I do think the better prize breeding / more prizes / both route is the way to go. Even if they bred consistently and gave Prizes 50% of the time, with so few winners in relation to the player base, I doubt they'll ever really flood the trade market. Just hopefully come down to saner prices, and come up for trading a bit more often! ...

 

 

 

DragonLady86:

 

... personally, while I like both prize types I don't really see the point in re-colors for any reason, constellation prizes or new cave release because that makes it a DIFFERENT dragon and therefore has no connection with the prizes other than also being a tinsel/shimmer. Just as Gold prize is not the same as silver prize is not the same as bronze prize. If you're collecting SPRITES which is the point of the game then all it does is add a new set of sprites, it does not solve the rarity of the originals. ...

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Okay this is getting ridiculous. If I got a cb prize I wouldn't even have to play dragoncave anymore as I'd already own everything. Cb metals? neglecteds? Yeah, offer at least 10 each and I may put you on a list. Even if everyone else decided to trade their 2nd gens for less, you wouldn't be able to collect all the lines let alone start a lineage.

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Okay this is getting ridiculous. If I got a cb prize I wouldn't even have to play dragoncave anymore as I'd already own everything.

That's what I was talking about in my previous post, and what I dislike about Prizes actually. It doesn't make me envious or angry that the owners can get pretty much anything they like because of the CB they own - I mean, they got that opportunity via the raffle and I don't see why they shouldn't be free to use it as they desire, that's perfectly alright. But I just think that it sort of ruins the purpose of the game, *for them* as well, because DC is generally about catching stuff and breeding stuff, not obtaining everything thanks to one epic CB dragon you've got. biggrin.gif It could be awesome to have that sort of thing, yes, but to me that doesn't seem very "DC" if you get what I mean xd.png

 

And just as a side note concerning trades: the fact that there are people out there who are ready to pay 10 CB Metals for a spot on the list doesn't mean that CB owners expect such offers and accept only them. The main problem is that most lists are closed, so some people get desperate and offer huge amounts for the chance. I'm fairly certain that there are, in fact, not many owners out there who would specifically be looking for epic offers of that kind once their list got open: on the contrary, most seem to ask for perfectly moderate trades. There have been cases by me when a Prize owner asked for something in exchange for a 2nd gen IOU and took less than expected despite my offer that contained more.

 

So that's not the main issue about it, I think that it's mostly caused by the popularity of low-gen Prizes, 2nd gens in particular, and the fact that they are horribly picky at breeding, which makes lists move very slowly.

 

Therefore I guess a combination of multiclutches AND better breeding would help solve the problem a lot: there would be more 2nd gens in the system and prices for them could decrease because of that at one point. smile.gif

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I really do think that the prize pool should be much, much larger.

 

i completely understand that there are individuals with prizes right now, and who are going to be getting one soon, that want to be able to trade their progeny away for a pretty penny. There is nothing wrong with doing that, or being excited by the prospect. That behavior isn't greedy or mean, there are trades up all the time offering bunches of CB metals, so who can resist if they really like CB metals?

 

I do think it's wrong that nothing has really been done to address trading, and the effect the Prizes have had on it. We were given Teleport, so trading is a totally endorsed and approved way to play. We were given a lineage viewer, and pretty lineages became an even bigger part of gameplay. Then we were given a handful of incredibly rare dragons, that only a few of us can breed 2ed gens of. In a game that is pretty much all about collecting and breeding; not just breeding, but breeding specific things. Not just getting a finished, but very pretty, lineage; but actually building our own pretty lineages.

 

There was drama over the way the first Raffle winners were chosen, and that was addressed the next year. The crapstorm over Raffles gets worse every year, and trading is completely skewed to favor Shimmers and Tinsels - that was an obvious outcome after a few years of Raffles not really changing. Even this year, with double the prizes, there are plenty of people unhappy. Winners are perfectly entitled to be happy, and losers are completely entitled to be sad.

 

 

Even if the Prize pool was 1,000+ dragons, I still think 2ed gens would be very desirable trades. Plus, the 'demand' for low gens would be spread, so less pressure and spotlight on winners. Something doesn't have to be over the moon valuable to also be incredibly special and enviable.

 

Edit: Also, assuming the larger prize pool also means that, you know, Shimmers and Tinsels actually breed true.

Edited by Draco Knight

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Okay this is getting ridiculous. If I got a cb prize I wouldn't even have to play dragoncave anymore as I'd already own everything. Cb metals? neglecteds? Yeah, offer at least 10 each and I may put you on a list. Even if everyone else decided to trade their 2nd gens for less, you wouldn't be able to collect all the lines let alone start a lineage.

But you would never get a frill or bright pink or CB alt and no one could give you a GON even if they wanted to. You also would not get a cb of the other 5 prize dragons - the best you could hope for would be 2nd gen trades. You'd have to stick around for many years in the hopes you could win enough more raffles to get all that stuff (but even then you would still not get a bright pink).

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But you would never get a frill or bright pink or CB alt and no one could give you a GON even if they wanted to. You also would not get a cb of the other 5 prize dragons - the best you could hope for would be 2nd gen trades. You'd have to stick around for many years in the hopes you could win enough more raffles to get all that stuff (but even then you would still not get a bright pink).

Frills can't breed Frills and Bright Pinks breed the common pinks. While I can't get cb of the other raffle prizes I could, hypothetically, get boatloads of 2nd gens for any lineage I desired. Since no one can have a complete scroll completion anyways now with retired breeds and cb holidays (and lineages with them actually have less trade value because of that) they don't control the trade market as much.

 

Anyways, I'd prefer more raffles and higher breeding rates for the prizes. I hate the idea of multiclutching because we'd have to implement them on dragons that didn't have them and you can't control where the offsprings go or what lineages they're used in. With holiday dragons they can only breed true for a certain amount of time but that's not true for prize dragons. Sorry if I rambled, I'm tired. :I

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That's what I was talking about in my previous post, and what I dislike about Prizes actually. It doesn't make me envious or angry that the owners can get pretty much anything they like because of the CB they own - I mean, they got that opportunity via the raffle and I don't see why they shouldn't be free to use it as they desire, that's perfectly alright.

Well, it all depends on your playstyle. Assuming I traded 2nd gens off for 4 CB Metals (which is the price i think is fair, given the CB rarity) I'd need one year to get the new CB Metals for my metallic breeding project alone. Then I'd need at least 1-2 years more for swaps with other prize owners. Not to say anything about gifts to friends, which is completely possible to take another year. And then there's nothing talking about my other 3 lineage plans, which means: get another 32 CB Ices, Magmas, Green Coppers and loads of other stuff.

 

Scroll-Completion is overrated. DC is a collecting and hunting game that has no "end". If you play to just "complete" your scroll with only a certain amount of dragons, DC will hold no very longterm motivation anyway.

Edited by whitebaron

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Well, it all depends on your playstyle. Assuming I traded 2nd gens off for 4 CB Metals (which is the price i think is fair, given the CB rarity) I'd need one year to get the new CB Metals for my metallic breeding project alone. Then I'd need at least 1-2 years more for swaps with other prize owners. Not to say anything about gifts to friends, which is completely possible to take another year. And then there's nothing talking about my other 3 lineage plans, which means: get another 32 CB Ices, Magmas, Green Coppers and loads of other stuff.

 

Scroll-Completion is overrated. DC is a collecting and hunting game that has no "end". If you play to just "complete" your scroll with only a certain amount of dragons, DC will hold no very longterm motivation anyway.

Firstly, I think 4 CB Metals is a bit much to ask for these hypothetical 2nd gens (but that's just my opinion). I have never paid that much, and rarely see anyone asking that. It's people offering these sorts of trades that inflate prices, not the prize owners themselves, usually. Secondly, I don't think your 'playstyle' is representative of a large proportion of DC players, so is slightly irrelevant here. I don't see what point you're trying to make with it. Also, a year's breeding, each traded for 4 CB Metals? That's a lot of metals for your 'breeding project'.

 

At the end of the day, it's people's choice how they want to play. Yes, in your opinion scroll completion may be 'overrated', but some people play to collect a certain amount of every dragon. This style still holds long-term motivation to stay on DC, as there are new dragons being released every month.

 

But, I'm rambling a getting off-topic. I'd have to agree with the posters above, on the subject of multiclutching, better breeding and more prizes. I think these things would go some way to improving the situation. I'm not saying it would solve it completely, though. And I hope we don't have new prizes next year, but keep improving the numbers of CB Tins and Shimmers (or if we do have new prizes, I hope they work in a completely different way to them currently).

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Personally, I feel like the generalized "2nd gen Prize for 4 (or more) CB Metals" going-rate is.... worthless, really. It's not a set "price". You can't grab 4 CB Metals and be guaranteed a 2nd gen Prize in return. Not all prize-winners ask for, (and we can't say for sure they would even *take*), that specific "price". It's just one price among *many*, and the only reason it gets signaled out so much is because it's supposed to show just how dang hard it is to get a 2nd gen.

 

Yes, 2nd gens are hard to get. We get that! We know that. We've gone over that a million times. And the "price" is only one of the factors contributing to the rarity; Honestly, I think the bigger issues are that 2nd gens are hard to get *because* 2nd gens are hard to *breed*. It doesn't really matter if a Prize-owner is only asking for 1 CB Metal, if the Prize won't breed true then it's doesn't matter *what* the price is. Making changes that would increase breeding chances would most likely make the whole "4 CB Metal" problem disappear, because the Prizes would become more prominent.

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My suggestion is that if someone has won a Prize in the last two years, then they don't get to win yet another one.

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My suggestion is that if someone has won a Prize in the last two years, then they don't get to win yet another one.

Aaaaand..... why? Is there any reason for this idea at all other then a 'you already won, let someone else win!' mentality?

 

If a user *qualifies* for the raffle, ie does whatever the event says is needed (getting to a certain level on Snow Wars, baking the specific things in the cooking event, etc), I see no logical reason why they shouldn't get the same chance in the raffle that everyone else gets. Just because they got lucky two years ago doesn't mean they shouldn't be allowed to participate in the raffle.

 

I go to the fair every year and *always* get a raffle ticket in the big showroom. It would make no sense at all for me to be disqualified from winning this year just because I won in 2012.

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