ANSWERED:Suggestions to improve the raffle

[mirjana]

Tbh, no prize tier needs to be this strict just because people who aren't winning want to choose things people who are winning aren't choosing. Nor do I think it's fair to create a new tier with no specialized code. I'd prefer there just be more HM winners. =|

Why not? This happens right on the heels of Christmas and the New Year--everyone should at least get a little something or have an increased chance to get something nice.

 

Compared to how many users there actually are, the number of winners is grossly disproportionate. In contrast, the amount of people who clicked that link to find nothing (except disappointment) was more than simply 'large'.

[Obscure_Trash]

Why not? This happens right on the heels of Christmas and the New Year--everyone should at least get a little something or have an increased chance to get something nice.

 

Compared to how many users there actually are, the number of winners is grossly disproportionate. In contrast, the amount of people who clicked that link to find nothing (except disappointment) was more than simply 'large'.

I think you missed this line: "I'd prefer there just be more HM winners." Unless I grossly misunderstood wasn't about consolation prizes (ie as you said, everyone getting a little something), but extended HM winners with requirements I find restricting, controlling, and unfair. So I'm a little unsure where your comment about everyone getting something in relation to my previous comment. In relation to my past comment about not being for consolation prizes or cb prizes, sure, but not my quoted post. And I never said no to increased prizes as per the comment I quoted above. o_O

 

And yeah, there are a lot of people who didn't win - that's kind of what happens in raffles. I trust TJ's judgement to pick a fair number of people to win. I think it's hard for us to say the number is unfair... when we don't know the number and we don't know the percentage. Yes, I also feel the sting of disappointment when I don't win, but unless we make everyone win the prize of their choice with a special code, there's always going to be people disappointed. We could do 50% winners and still have half the participants disappointed. There's no way around that. Guessing nobody here buys lottery tickets in order to avoid that disappointment. ;P

 

Bolded a point I think is really important we need to remember in this thread. We're making assumptions regarding numbers but that's a dangerous game to play. Perhaps people should be listing what they think a fair percentage is instead of making judgements and just saying that what it is now is unfair. (And no, I'm not ignoring those of you that did list what percent you wanted to see.)

[DarkEternity]

I think that TJ's comment on the number of winners indicates that there is absolutely no chance whatsoever that the number of winners will be increased or expanded based on the suggestions/'numbers' cited in this thread, but there is still the option of things like multiclutches.

[whitebaron]

On the one hand, that's quite a nice idea. On the other hand - who'd honestly choose a CB hybrid/alt instead of a frill or gold? Hm?

I have 0 frills. Picking one won't make any differences. So why pick that? A CB Red Stripe sounds nice to me. Also, if nothing else, one could always get a CB Holly and trade it for multiple metals.

[DarkEternity]

You could trade any CB Alt HM in existence for multiple CB metals, IMO. ^^;;

Edited January 22, 2014 by DarkEternity

[Marrionetta]

Why not? This happens right on the heels of Christmas and the New Year--everyone should at least get a little something or have an increased chance to get something nice

Everyone gets a holiday dragon for the holiday already. The prizes are prizes. Not gifts. They're extra. They're sprinkles. Ice cream for all. Sprinkles for winners. Do you see?

 

It's a -contest.-

[Fuzzbucket]

And yeah, there are a lot of people who didn't win - that's kind of what happens in raffles. I trust TJ's judgement to pick a fair number of people to win. I think it's hard for us to say the number is unfair... when we don't know the number and we don't know the percentage. Yes, I also feel the sting of disappointment when I don't win, but unless we make everyone win the prize of their choice with a special code, there's always going to be people disappointed. We could do 50% winners and still have half the participants disappointed. There's no way around that. Guessing nobody here buys lottery tickets in order to avoid that disappointment. ;P

 

Bolded a point I think is really important we need to remember in this thread. We're making assumptions regarding numbers but that's a dangerous game to play. Perhaps people should be listing what they think a fair percentage is instead of making judgements and just saying that what it is now is unfair. (And no, I'm not ignoring those of you that did list what percent you wanted to see.)

This this this this.

 

We do not know the numbers. We never will know the numbers. TJ doesn't have to tell us, either, and we should not be pressuring him to do so. We will never EVER all win. As Socky said - does everyone here carry on like this when they fail to win the big box of chocolates at the school raffle ? Does everyone here crowd round the winner and say they have to give you a chocolate to make it FAIR ? It WAS fair - the winners won fair and square.

 

I'd be OK with more HM winners, but the specials should stay special. Consolation prizes - meh. We will only get another thread saying why not go the whole hog because coal tins are not silver and gold.... Because that is what always happens here after any solution to anything - in no time flat there's a new thread asking for a change in whatever the solution to the last thing was....

 

so....

[HeatherMarie]

I'd be OK with more HM winners, but the specials should stay special. Consolation prizes - meh. We will only get another thread saying why not go the whole hog because coal tins are not silver and gold.... Because that is what always happens here after any solution to anything - in no time flat there's a new thread asking for a change in whatever the solution to the last thing was....

 

so....

I think consolation prizes would be a huge help, regardless of whatever threads may pop up later to the contrary. As you just said, pretty much every single "solution" (or change in general) is *always* going to have people against it, people trying to point out how it isn't "fair" or how it's ruined the experience, EVERY feature implemented has that. I don't see that as a reason to *not* implement something.

 

Consolation prizes would be a *huge* help, because yes there are people arguing for more Prize Dragons, arguing to make the "numbers" higher, etc etc. But from what I've see around here, it's more then that, it's the feeling of just not getting *anything*. I'm well aware that's how raffles IRL often work, but that doesn't mean that's how raffles in DC *have* to work. In grade school we had spelling bees, and the best would get little trophies, and *everyone* would get a small blue "participant" ribbon. That's basically what this is. Just an acknowledgement that we did what we needed to do in order to enter the raffle. Something that says "good job". That's all. If everyone got *something* out of the raffle, of course there will still be complaints/whining, but everyone will have gotten *something*. And that's a huge difference.

[mirjana]

Everyone gets a holiday dragon for the holiday already.  The prizes are prizes.  Not gifts.  They're extra.  They're sprinkles.  Ice cream for all.  Sprinkles for winners.  Do you see?

 

It's a -contest.-

A contest you don't really do anything to enter. Nobody ~deserves~ to win more than anybody else. It's not like the other people who entered and won nothing did any less than those who did.

 

So, no. I do not see. It is not fair. People are going to continue to point that out.

 

But maybe, since nobody can seem to agree, we should just keep things as they are. It does not appear as though change will occur anyhow, since we can't all even reach a consensus upon one solution.

Edited January 23, 2014 by mirjana

[rumor33]

So, no. I do not see. It is not fair. People are going to continue to point that out.

I don't understand why its unfair. Everyone did the same thing to enter, everyone had the same chances. Only a few won, just like every raffle/lotto on the planet. Is it 'unfair' if I by a lotto ticket and don't win the mega millions? No, I just didn't get lucky. I'm not going to find the winner and demand things from them, I'm not going to storm the state lotto looking for cash, I'm going to accept that I didn't win and move on. The fact that only a few people win is what keeps people entering and its what makes it special for the winners. Was I disappointed that I didn't win? Yeah, but I'll certainly be trying again next year.

 

 

[Saami]

I'm starting to wonder what the point of this thread is then. There seems to be a problem with every solution brought up to the point that they don't even seem like solutions anymore and we can't rightly say the raffle was unfair or complain about it without all of the facts, can we? So why not keep the status quo and tell the people who didn't win to get over it. It's worked so far hasn't it?

[mirjana]

I don't understand why its unfair. Everyone did the same thing to enter, everyone had the same chances. Only a few won, just like every raffle/lotto on the planet. Is it 'unfair' if I by a lotto ticket and don't win the mega millions? No, I just didn't get lucky. I'm not going to find the winner and demand things from them, I'm not going to storm the state lotto looking for cash, I'm going to accept that I didn't win and move on. The fact that only a few people win is what keeps people entering and its what makes it special for the winners. Was I disappointed that I didn't win? Yeah, but I'll certainly be trying again next year.

Every suggested solution has been shot down so far. The purpose of this thread was to find solutions, or only one to improve the raffle.

 

If the raffle was fair and well-received, why is this thread here, then?

 

I'm genuinely confused. If it ain't broke, why bother talking about fixing it at all, then?

[EscapistLore]

I think there's people not happy with how the raffle is currently, and whom are trying to improve this game because we genuinely love it. We will never all agree, but through discussion we may come up with some ideas that TJ likes.

 

I.. Still don't like the appeal of multiclutches.. I would like it, but then all dragons should multiclutch or shimmers should breed true once a year. Which won't happen.

 

I like the idea of consolation prizes. Yes, some will complain its not silver/gold. Some are complaining now. I think less people will, though, and I think overall it would improve feelings about this raffle.

 

Love the idea of multiple raffles. I really do. It'd give us something else to look forward to.

 

Nothing we can do will ever make everyone happy. This raffle situation causes drama, sadly. But if we don't talk about it, our voices won't be heard.

[DarkEternity]

My perspective on the "point" of the raffle is probably to equitably distribute (i.e. without the need of good reflexes/clicking speed) ultra rare dragons, to a few people.

 

I always thought of the raffles as a way of distributing things like CB Hollies especially, in such a way that would ensure that they would never die out (iirc, they were dying out at a point), but would not devalue the original 2007 dragons possessed by people who'd managed to get them to avoid making people angry. I assume that the other CB prizes were just to added to make the raffles more interesting (which introduced a whole new level to the phrase "ultra rare unobtainable")

 

Then there's the whole: 'but people don't deserve to win the raffle because they did nothing' part. Well in actual fact, in the original 2010 incarnation, there was more involvement. People were judged based on creativity with the trees. In favour of making the raffle more EQUAL, the part pertaining to 'deserving' got removed. So really, you either had the choice of making the 'raffle' more deserving or more fair and fair won.

Edited January 23, 2014 by DarkEternity

[mirjana]

I like the idea of consolation prizes. Yes, some will complain its not silver/gold. Some are complaining now. I think less people will, though, and I think overall it would improve feelings about this raffle.

 

Love the idea of multiple raffles. I really do. It'd give us something else to look forward to.

For what it's worth, so do I--and I actually would be perfectly fine with a dull/neutral hue that would go with a lot of other breeds.

 

It's a better suggestion than multi-clutching, which, now that I think of it would still not guarantee that more people would be able to catch one off the AP. There'd be a situation similar to the hollies, where some have better connections and quicker clicking reflexes than others, and it'd still lead to disappointment.

 

And I also think in theory, the raffles could be a really great thing to hype everyone up and look forward to. But perhaps Christmas might not be the time to hold it (or them if more than 1 is held a year)?

 

I understand the last bit. I suppose it's just disheartening to not be able to come to a loose consensus over at least one of those many suggestions.

[mirjana]

My perspective on the "point" of the raffle is probably to equitably distribute (i.e. without the need of good reflexes/clicking speed) ultra rare dragons, to a few people.

 

I always thought of the raffles as a way of distributing things like CB Hollies especially, in such a way that would ensure that they would never die out (iirc, they were dying out at a point), but would not devalue the original 2007 dragons possessed by people who'd managed to get them to avoid making people angry. I assume that the other CB prizes were just to added to make the raffles more interesting (which introduced a whole new level to the phrase "ultra rare unobtainable")

 

Then there's the whole: 'but people don't deserve to win the raffle because they did nothing' part. Well in actual fact, in the original 2010 incarnation, there was more involvement. People were judged based on creativity with the trees. In favour of making the raffle more EQUAL, the part pertaining to 'deserving' got removed. So really, you either had the choice of making the 'raffle' more deserving or more fair and fair won.

Oh no, I wasn't referring to the 2010 incarnation, though. I wasn't around then, so I can't comment. But this past year it did not take much more than a couple days of hurling snow to reach level 25.

 

So this raffle in particular was easy to enter, yes.

 

It would be nice to be able to choose the most doable of the suggestions outlined on page 1 and even just loosely agree that it might help.

[DarkEternity]

The date of DC's birthday was suggested.

^^ Another reason which might be behind why we don't have more raffles and winners is the amount of emails that TJ has to send out, ensure the winner quota is fulfilled, read the requests and implement them...

 

I've also suggested a while ago making raffle entry harder or with better odds at the cost of effort. The suggestion is extremely unpopular because people don't want to put in effort/haven't got enough time. I'm not sure people want to 'deserve' anything, indeed I've got the exact opposite impression that a stress free, low chance raffle is preferred...

.___.;

 

(And by unpopular, I mean REALLY, REALLY, REALLY, REALLY unpopular)

Edited January 23, 2014 by DarkEternity

[mirjana]

The date of DC's birthday was suggested.

^^ Another reason which might be behind why we don't have more raffles and winners is the amount of emails that TJ has to send out, ensure the winner quota is fulfilled, read the requests and implement them...

 

I've also suggested a while ago making raffle entry harder or with better odds at the cost of effort. The suggestion is extremely unpopular because people don't want to put in effort/haven't got enough time. I'm not sure people want to 'deserve' anything, indeed I've got the exact opposite impression that a stress free, low chance raffle is preferred...

.___.;

 

(And by unpopular, I mean REALLY, REALLY, REALLY, REALLY unpopular)

That might be a better time than Christmas. A lot of the disappointment for me was what time of year it happened to coincide with. That could help lessen the sting, so to speak, if a user doesn't win.

 

Ahh yes, I've seen that. And around the holidays, I can understand. It's a busy time of year for many.

 

But if it were moved to a time of year where more users are of (and active) and aren't likely to be at big family dinners, etc, I wouldn't mind if it were harder, personally.

 

I had a LOT of leftover snow even after reaching level 50.

[DarkEternity]

Yeah, running a raffle with a limited pool of winners probably wasn't the most (dare I say) appropriate event fitting in with the spirit of the season ^^;;

[Tawanda001]

The date of DC's birthday was suggested.

^^ Another reason which might be behind why we don't have more raffles and winners is the amount of emails that TJ has to send out, ensure the winner quota is fulfilled, read the requests and implement them...

 

I've also suggested a while ago making raffle entry harder or with better odds at the cost of effort. The suggestion is extremely unpopular because people don't want to put in effort/haven't got enough time. I'm not sure people want to 'deserve' anything, indeed I've got the exact opposite impression that a stress free, low chance raffle is preferred...

.___.;

 

(And by unpopular, I mean REALLY, REALLY, REALLY, REALLY unpopular)

Mmmm, for me the desire to keep the raffle entry relatively easy is to give everyone a shot at the raffle. Anything that involves a LOT of effort or time or skill will knock out players that are younger, or less talented, or quite busy with RL (especially at holiday time)

IMO simple is good, at least as far as entry requirements go.

[mirjana]

Yeah, running a raffle with a limited pool of winners probably wasn't the most (dare I say) appropriate event fitting in with the spirit of the season ^^;;

Not really, no. It wouldn't have been nearly so disappointing otherwise, I think.

 

Though I still hope that maybe the dull/dark more common versions of prizes could be a Thing. No matter when they'd be released.

[rumor33]

Every suggested solution has been shot down so far. The purpose of this thread was to find solutions,  or only one to improve the raffle.

 

If the raffle was fair and well-received, why is this thread here, then?

 

I'm genuinely confused. If it ain't broke, why bother talking about fixing it at all, then? 

1) Things can be improved without the source being inherently broken. There is always room to make things better, that doesn't mean that this has been 'unfair' so far.

 

2) People felt a need to voice concerns, they should be given a venue to do so. That doesn't mean that the people who wish to complain are correct.

 

Personally kind of like the suggestion of another raffle around june with a totally different prize. Though I'd rather it not interfere with the regular release schedule.

Edited January 23, 2014 by rumor33

[Obscure_Trash]

I know I'm like the Scrooge here, but I'm really, really hesitant about another raffle. It takes a lot of time just waiting for people to answer and etc. My worry has already been mentioned - I really don't want anymore regular releases to interrupted or moved to work around a raffle schedule. >.>

[Sarah864]

What about a mini raffle with only HM prizes? Or maybe less time for confirmation? Like if I don't respond/open the email within a week it goes to the next person.

[DarkEternity]

HM prizes seem to be a bit seasonal. As in, we couldn't ask for dragons from other holidays in the Christmas Raffle. Not sure if that has changed. Might be to do with artist permissions.

 

(That's another little raffle weirdness. It kinda implies that it occurs on other holidays but doesn't.)

Edited January 23, 2014 by DarkEternity