ANSWERED:Suggestions to improve the raffle

[mirjana]

If collecting and raising common hatchies is not a reasonable or doable task, then I don't know what is.

 

Reasonable and doable for most opinions in this thread amounts to basically: cost less than a single cb metal in worth. Or get a prize-copy in coal for free. So, almost all I've seen so far is wanting without giving, or without giving much.

 

I just recently sold 2 cb coppers for crimsons. Know what? delivering 40 crimsons is obviously doable in 2 weeks. That's far from enslaving your scroll.

I only have 18 slots at any given time on my scroll. Would you like to explain to me how I would be able to "deliver 40 crimsons" in 2 weeks, and have room for your CB copper on my scroll AND be able to raise what I want at the same time?

 

And as ADP above me said--please do point me to the owner of a CB prize who would charge so little for their 2nd gen offspring. Please.

 

Also, a 'dull' variant in the cave would be for those who simply want a caveborn version of the sprite. It would NOT reduce the value of the shiny versions in the least. So that is hardly 'wanting without giving'. I gave my time to play this game. It would be nice that I and everyone else who did the same and didn't win get a "thanks for playing" little something.

 

I am not asking for a CB prize for free. Lol.

[Saami]

If collecting and raising common hatchies is not a reasonable or doable task, then I don't know what is.

 

Reasonable and doable for most opinions in this thread amounts to basically: cost less than a single cb metal in worth. Or get a prize-copy in coal for free. So, almost all I've seen so far is wanting without giving, or without giving much.

 

I just recently sold 2 cb coppers for crimsons. Know what? delivering 40 crimsons is obviously doable in 2 weeks. That's far from enslaving your scroll.

Of course catching common hatchlings is an easy and doable task. They're common. They're everywhere. And if I wanted them, I could go out and get them, which I generally do because they're common and very easy to get and I'm ultimately here to collect. I have a few lineage projects that I like to work on with a friend and that's about all I do here. So, honestly, I'm not truly affected either way if the game doesn't change. It just means that I will be unable to afford the more expensive things I'd like to collect. Which is, ultimately, okay. I mean I won't cry if I can't get the things I want. If they were originally part of my scroll goal, and they're not within my grasp? Then I just change my goals. Find something I can catch.

 

I'm curious, what exactly have the prize winners done to earn their prize, aside from participate in the event and happen to have their name drawn out of the pool? How is awarding someone who didn't win with a dull variant of the prize as a 'hey thanks for playing' somehow taking away from the people who have won the brightly colored ones? What have the winners given that the losers did not give?

 

Also I think selling two eggs for 40 hatchlings (which is 20 hatchlings each. I can only hold 7 eggs and 21 things total) is definitely unreasonable. That is essentially asking me to do most of the work for the person I'm trading with. I'm not playing this game for anyone else but me. My scroll is not someone else's extra scroll space. I don't think I'll ever want something bad enough to do something like that or ask someone to do it for me.

Edited January 18, 2014 by Saami

[DarkEternity]

Do tell me what cave hunters do to deserve low pings and good reflexes, then.

 

If you think that 20 dirt common hatchlings for a 2g prize is unreasonable, then I don't know why are people are even having this discussion I think that this thread is a lost cause.

 

EDIT: whoops, it's not 40, it's 20... looks like I overestimated the motivation of some users...

Edited January 18, 2014 by DarkEternity

[whitebaron]

Also I think selling two eggs for 40 hatchlings (which is 20 hatchlings each. I can only hold 7 eggs and 21 things total) is definitely unreasonable. That is essentially asking me to do most of the work for the person I'm trading with. I'm not playing this game for anyone else but me. My scroll is not someone else's extra scroll space. I don't think I'll ever want something bad enough to do something like that or ask someone to do it for me.

that's the point. They do the work for you, since you got them nice stuff.

I've done that kind of trade with over 50 people by now. Most of them were glad to find a generous trader, instead of someone "charging an arm and a leg". I raised about five of my 200 crimsons myself.

 

 

 

@mirjana, thats again asking others to do your work. I brokered a trade for a friend, 2g shimmer x pink for 2 papers, a bred tinsel and one cb silver. Its not as cheap, but still... You only have to search and be friendly. But that takes time, too.

[DarkEternity]

Raising hatchlings = trying

If other people are willing to raise 20 hatchlings (Which only takes roughly a week) and you aren't willing to, then it's pretty natural that the winner is going to be taking the more motivated person, over the less motivated person.

Edited January 18, 2014 by DarkEternity

[Saami]

>implying that wanting to keep my scroll space for me somehow makes me unmotivated

 

>dies laughing

 

no but really, I'm not an active trader. I trade only when I need to. I don't need something so badly that I'll dedicate that much of my scroll space to someone else. It's just not happening.

Edited January 18, 2014 by Saami

[mirjana]

that's the point. They do the work for you, since you got them nice stuff.

I've done that kind of trade with over 50 people by now. Most of them were glad to find a generous trader, instead of someone "charging an arm and a leg". I raised about five of my 200 crimsons myself.

 

 

 

@mirjana, thats again asking others to do your work. I brokered a trade for a friend, 2g shimmer x pink for 2 papers, a bred tinsel and one cb silver. Its not as cheap, but still... You only have to search and be friendly. But that takes time, too.

Are you serious? That's 'asking others to do the work for me' while you expect me to raise 20 hatchlings to maturity for you?

 

That is close to multi-scrolling. And no. That is not reasonable, fair or even really ethical.

 

I like to think I'm friendly. But I'm new, and not "rich" or in possession of "trading clout". I don't trade often. Because I can catch most things I like. Rares? No. I can't seem to.

 

I'd like to think that the people who have tried and failed to catch them should not be blamed for it. At least we've tried. But apparently we're just ~lazy and unmotivated~.

Edited January 18, 2014 by mirjana

[mirjana]

Raising hatchlings = trying

If other people are willing to raise 20 hatchlings (Which only takes roughly a week) and you aren't willing to, then it's pretty natural that the winner is going to be taking the more motivated person, over the less motivated person.

Motivated? Wanting to raise their own hatchlings while wanting to be able to pay a reasonable price for something nice they might want makes someone unmotivated?

 

You know, I would think that the person willing to raise their own common hatchlings would be the more motivated and less "lazy".

[cyradis4]

Do tell me what cave hunters do to deserve low pings and good reflexes, then.

 

If you think that 20 dirt common hatchlings for a 2g prize is unreasonable, then I don't know why are people are even having this discussion  I think that this thread is a lost cause.

 

EDIT: whoops, it's not 40, it's 20... looks like I overestimated the motivation of some users...

Except right after the raffle, I have NEVER seen a 2nd gen Prize go for common hatchies.

 

What was being referred to is trading a CB Copper for a bunch of dirt commons. And the truth? White Baron is the ONLY person I've seen do this regularly. And you know what? I LOOK for them, because I need more CB Golds and more CB Coppers.

 

I got half of my 3rd gen Tinsels by doing hatchie trades. All with the same person. My lowest gen Shimmers (4th gens) were also multiple hatchie trades. All done back when the AP was always at 7 days. I actively look for these trades, because I'm good at them. But they are rare.

 

But I have almost never seen someone trade a CB Gold or CB Silver for many hatchies, and I've never seen a 2nd gen Tinsel or Shimmer go for that EXCEPT in the first month after the raffle wins were announced.

 

Cheers!

C4.

Edited January 18, 2014 by cyradis4

[DarkEternity]

Guys, if you don't want to raise common hatchlings and things, by all means go ahead.

Feel free to play the way the game you want to, but if you:

1) Don't have the means to trade

2) Aren't willing to do things that other people are willing to do

I would not be surprised if you are not able to get a 2g prize because you are not willing to try at all.

 

Cyradis4: even if the prize winners/multiclutching/every single thing on this thread were implemented, I do not think that it would help people trade for 2g prizes at all if they were not even willing to fulfill the absolute minimum offers that have been described on this thread.

 

I do trade CB silvers and CB golds on a semiregular basis for 12 common hatchlings, but the reason you do not see this in the trade threads is that people are more likely to run off with rares than fulfill the IOUs they have made. I would much rather trade with people who have consistently shown that they are able to fulfill said requests, than go with somebody different each time and potentially have the time and effort obtaining said things wasted.

Edited January 18, 2014 by DarkEternity

[mirjana]

Guys, if you don't want to raise common hatchlings and things, by all means go ahead.

Feel free to play the way the game you want to, but if you:

1) Don't have the means to trade

2) Aren't willing to do things that other people are willing to do

I would not be surprised if you are not able to get a 2g prize because you are not willing to try at all.

 

Cyradis4: even if the prize winners/multiclutching/every single thing on this thread were implemented, I do not think that it would help people trade for 2g prizes at all if they were not even willing to fulfill the absolute minimum offers that have been described on this thread.

I am not going to get a 2G prize because I will not give my firstborn, house and car and probably my soul in exchange. Dramatic analogy, yes. Untrue? Not in terms of the outrageous prices, no.

 

And my beef in the first place is that they have a monopoly on the trade market and not necessarily that I want one. Exhibit A: a CB silver is up for trade now for a CB gold or 2-3G shimmer. "NO OTHER OFFERS".

 

So even those willing to sell their scroll to someone else for 2-3 weeks (let's not forget not everyone has a gold trophy ) won't have a shot at getting a CB silver.

 

Nevermind a 2G prize.

[DarkEternity]

I am not going to get a 2G prize because I will not give my firstborn, house and car and probably my soul in exchange. Dramatic analogy, yes. Untrue? Not in terms of the outrageous prices, no.

 

And my beef in the first place is that they have a monopoly on the trade market and not necessarily that I want one. Exhibit A: a CB silver is up for trade now for a CB gold or 2-3G shimmer. "NO OTHER OFFERS".

 

So even those willing to sell their scroll to someone else for 2-3 weeks (let's not forget not everyone has a gold trophy  ) won't have a shot at getting a CB silver.

 

Nevermind a 2G prize.

Good point. Which means that I am pretty sure that this makes this thread redundant, for the reasons I have described above. We are not even beginning to discuss 2-3 weeks, what you have discussed is one week.

 

Worse, because of the state of the AP, what you could be describing is a single day if you have enough incubates.

Edited January 18, 2014 by DarkEternity

[cyradis4]

Guys, if you don't want to raise common hatchlings and things, by all means go ahead.

Feel free to play the way the game you want to, but if you:

1) Don't have the means to trade

2) Aren't willing to do things that other people are willing to do

I would not be surprised if you are not able to get a 2g prize because you are not willing to try at all.

 

Cyradis4: even if the prize winners/multiclutching/every single thing on this thread were implemented, I do not think that it would help people trade for 2g prizes at all if they were not even willing to fulfill the absolute minimum offers that have been described on this thread.

I would gladly raise 40 CB Commons to get a 2nd gen Prize. Everyone I know would gladly do that.

 

Guess what? It won't happen.

 

Why? Because prizes do not breed. Go look at the stats on the other page. The original CB Golds have a total of 93 2nd gens between them. JUST 93, after 3 years.

 

Unless you are within the first 5 spots on a Prize's list, you will be waiting years for your 2nd gen. I know. I'm on THREE lists, and I'm still waiting. The one I was closest to (16th on it), I've been waiting for, for about a year. Still got several to go. The other two I've been on for two years, was much further down, and have still two years, at least, to go before I'm even close to the top of the list.

 

If more prizes were handed out, and if said prizes bred one Shiny every month, then that owuld help a LOT. A shiny every other week wouldn't solve all the problems, but it would help beyond measure. Right now? The original Golds are breeding about a Tinsel once or twice a year. As odds go, that sucks.

 

Cheers!

C4.

 

PS: Lorimmel, Gold Epica's owner, has already posted in this thread. Go back and read her post. Every single one of my Golds and Silver CBs has been breeding better for the last two years than the 5 original CB Gold Tinsels.

[whitebaron]

c4: 42 and eri trade often enough for hatchies, too.

Not cb metals, but something often even better: 3g or 4g shimmers.

 

Mirjana: noone said I did this because I dont profit as well. But to people who need their rare and can't catch due to crappy connection? Those deals are a godsend, and they grab them with both hands.

[DarkEternity]

The suggestions would help a lot of people, but it would not help everyone in this thread.

[cyradis4]

The suggestions would help a lot of people, but it would not help everyone in this thread.

You can never help everyone, or make everyone happy. But those suggestions would make 2nd gen Tinsels and Shimmers at least feasible for those who can catch maybe a CB metal every other week, or who is willing to raise 40 hatchies for a 2nd gen Tinsel.

 

Which is just about everyone I know, actually.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Do tell me what cave hunters do to deserve low pings and good reflexes, then.

As someone who does have good internet connection, I can say that getting CB Metals still requires more than that. It requires patience and time, because firstly they don't show up often, and secondly when they do show up, plenty of others with good internet are gunning for them, too, so you'll likely have to rinse and repeat for a while. Personally most of my CB Metals have come from hunting down good deals and then gathering things to trade rather than hunting, because hunting takes a lot of work in terms of time. ^^;

 

Also, guys, 20-50 common hatchlings for a CB Rare / 2g Prize is a great deal. If you want scroll space for yourself as well, simply only raise a handful per week, or even collect other rare things to swap for the hatchlings so you don't have to hatch them all yourself. Personally I squeal with delight when I find such trades--they don't come around often and they're more than worth it when they do, at least to me!

 

Ahem, anyway. To get back to the main point--DC is a collecting game, the more things that can be collected, the better. As I've said many times, 2g Prizes don't have to be easy to come by, not by a long shot, but it would be nice if they were on a fairly equal trade rate to 1 or 2 CB Metals, and if such trades could be found fairly regularly--both things which aren't happening right now (one might possibly cause the other--several Prize owners have spoken of horrible breeding rates, with numbers to prove it, and of course if lists aren't clearing no amount of shinies can buy your way on to one).

 

While one can say "just focus on other stuff," that kind of goes against the nature of a collecting game where, of course, people want to get what they don't have more than what they do have (or at least, most do). There are always lines and dragons that'll be impossible to get now, sadly--proper Old Pink x GW checkers, different colored Snow Angels, and past CB Halloweens, to name a few--but those exceptions don't mean we have to settle for exclusivity in every case--especially not when CB Prizes are fairly unique in not only being exclusive, but in allowing full dominance of the trade market, something even CB Hollies can only do once per year.

 

A scenario in which CB Prizes--or even just their immediate offspring, if TJ's firmly against increasing the amount of winners again--are more abundant would make collecting those low gens more possible while likely not decreasing trade amount much. In the latter case, this could be achieved by adding improved breeding ratios for Prizes, and maybe adding multiclutching in conjunction with that. Just something, anything, to make 2gs a bit more accessible for all us crazy collectors. ^^;

 

tl;dr a collecting game without rares isn't much fun, but a collecting game with near-impossible-to-obtain rares isn't much fun, either.

Edited January 18, 2014 by angelicdragonpuppy

[mirjana]

Good point. Which means that I am pretty sure that this makes this thread redundant, for the reasons I have described above. We are not even beginning to discuss 2-3 weeks, what you have discussed is one week.

 

Worse, because of the state of the AP, what you could be describing is a single day if you have enough incubates.

New people probably don't have a lot of incubates. And the cooldown period is in fact 2 weeks on those, so even if they have a few they'd potentially be SOL.

 

It's nice how newer people aren't often taken into consideration. I feel like I've definitely signed up at the wrong time. I've heard stories of how much more feasible trading was years ago.

 

Compared to now? If I want nice things, I'm p. much guaranteed not to get them because I a) only have limited space on my scroll and still happen to want to raise my own things and not turn my scroll into a hatchling farm.

 

Especially if people won't take anything but "low-time mature" hatchlings.

[mirjana]

As someone who does have good internet connection, I can say that getting CB Metals still requires more than that. It requires patience and time, because firstly they don't show up often, and secondly when they do show up, plenty of others with good internet are gunning for them, too, so you'll likely have to rinse and repeat for a while. Personally most of my CB Metals have come from hunting down good deals and then gathering things to trade rather than hunting, because hunting takes a lot of work in terms of time. ^^;

 

Also, guys, 20-50 common hatchlings for a CB Rare / 2g Prize is a great deal. If you want scroll space for yourself as well, simply only raise a handful per week, or even collect other rare things to swap for the hatchlings so you don't have to hatch them all yourself. Personally I squeal with delight when I find such trades--they don't come around often and they're more than worth it when they do, at least to me!

 

Ahem, anyway. To get back to the main point--DC is a collecting game, the more things that can be collected, the better. As I've said many times, 2g Prizes don't have to be easy to come by, not by a long shot, but it would be nice if they were on a fairly equal trade rate to 1 or 2 CB Metals, and if such trades could be found fairly regularly--both things which aren't happening right now (one might possibly cause the other--several Prize owners have spoken of horrible breeding rates, with numbers to prove it, and of course if lists aren't clearing no amount of shinies can buy your way on to one).

 

While one can say "just focus on other stuff," that kind of goes against the nature of a collecting game where, of course, people want to get what they don't have more than what they do have (or at least, most do). There are always lines and dragons that'll be impossible to get now, sadly--Old Pinks, different colored Snow Angels, and past CB Halloweens, to name a few--but those exceptions don't mean we have to settle for exclusivity in every case--especially not when CB Prizes are fairly unique in not only being exclusive, but in allowing full dominance of the trade market, something even CB Hollies can only do once per year.

 

A scenario in which CB Prizes--or even just their immediate offspring, if TJ's firmly against increasing the amount of winners again--are more abundant would make collecting those low gens more possible while likely not decreasing trade amount much. This could perhaps also be achieved by adding improved breeding ratios for Prizes, and maybe adding multiclutching in conjunction with that. Just something, anything, to make 2gs a bit more accessible for all us crazy collectors. ^^;

 

tl;dr a collecting game without rares isn't much fun, but a collecting game with near-impossible-to-obtain rares isn't much fun, either.

Oh, see. I was thinking somehow these hatchlings only could be raised all at once.

 

But still it leaves a bit of a sour taste in my mouth since I only have a silver trophy, if that can be understood.

 

Other than that though, I really do agree with everything else you have said.

 

A collecting game where some things are impossible to get isn't fun at all.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

New people probably don't have a lot of incubates. And the cooldown period is in fact 2 weeks on those, so even if they have a few they'd potentially be SOL.

 

It's nice how newer people aren't often taken into consideration. I feel like I've definitely signed up at the wrong time. I've heard stories of how much more feasible trading was years ago.

 

Compared to now? If I want nice things, I'm p. much guaranteed not to get them because I a) only have limited space on my scroll and still happen to want to raise my own things and not turn my scroll into a hatchling farm.

 

Especially if people won't take anything but "low-time mature" hatchlings.

New players have to work their way up to rare things. I think this is true of all games, not just DC.

[DarkEternity]

Especially if people won't take anything but "low-time mature" hatchlings.

Would love to see some examples of that.

 

It's nice how newer people aren't often taken into consideration. I feel like I've definitely signed up at the wrong time. I've heard stories of how much more feasible trading was years ago.

It's nice how the raffle does take new people into consideration and we don't automatically get more entries because we are veterans. Furthermore, I'm not sure how feasible trading was years ago, unless there was enjoyment to be derived from the unresolved tension of LIT.

 

If I want nice things, I'm p. much guaranteed not to get them because I a) only have limited space on my scroll and cool.gif still happen to want to raise my own things and not turn my scroll into a hatchling farm.

Yeah, but I'm not sure if that's the point that this thread is making.

Granted, the suggestions will make 2gs and such easier for people, but it's not the equivalent of pressing a button and having dragons instantaneously created.

 

If you have limited space on your scroll, by all means dedicate the space to the collection of things that you deem to be interesting.

 

The suggestions are founded around letting hardcore collectors have a chance of obtaining 2gs without making it nigh impossible. I'm sure that by this stage, a lot of us have already collected the sprites we desire in excess and that 2g prizes amongst other things are one of the few points of interests that we would like to see opened up.

Edited January 18, 2014 by DarkEternity

[whitebaron]

If you are new, you arent expected to have big deals and the rarest of,the rares, unless you,turned out,very lucky.

if,it were that easy, where'd be the long term motivation?

 

Go back and stock up on,reds.,it will help your gold trophy along nicely.

[mirjana]

c4: 42 and eri trade often enough for hatchies, too.

Not cb metals, but something often even better: 3g or 4g shimmers.

 

Mirjana: noone said I did this because I dont profit as well. But to people who need their rare and can't catch due to crappy connection? Those deals are a godsend, and they grab them with both hands.

The point is the people who catch and trade them profit more than the people who trade outrageous amounts of things for them.

 

My scroll is mine. It is not a 2nd one for someone else to raise their commons on and only take when they're just at 4 days and ready to mature. That means those commons clog someone's scroll for as long as possible for 1 thing they won't even have room for in the first place.

 

That is as close to multi-scrolling as it can be, unless you allow the people you trade with to hatch your commons in small amounts. But even then, unless you take them as soon as they hatch?

 

No.

[DarkEternity]

The point is the people who catch and trade them profit more than the people who trade outrageous amounts of things for them.

 

My scroll is mine. It is not a 2nd one for someone else to raise their commons on and only take when they're just at 4 days and ready to mature. That means those commons clog someone's scroll for as long as possible for 1 thing they won't even have room for in the first place.

 

If that was the case, I'm sure we would all find the motivation of catching and keeping rare things like CB metals unless we can trade them for 2g prizes. Since as you have pointed out, we can all raise common hatchlings by ourselves.

Edited January 18, 2014 by DarkEternity

[mirjana]

If you are new, you arent expected to have big deals and the rarest of,the rares, unless you,turned out,very lucky.

if,it were that easy, where'd be the long term motivation?

 

Go back and stock up on,reds.,it will help your gold trophy along nicely.

What long term motivation am I expected to have when my friend who has been here since 2008 has never been able to caught or reasonably trade for a single CB gold?

 

And has quit multiple times and may quit again because of how impossible some things have become in recent years to obtain?

 

That's not something that will ~*motivate*~ her, or me, or anyone. I am not a slave to this game any more than she is.