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ANSWERED:Suggestions to improve the raffle

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This is an interesting mechanic. It'd almost work for any dragon as well (because in any lineage, there are exponentially more lower gens than higher gens.

 

Though remember that breeding multiple eggs doesn't necessarily mean that they'll all be prize eggs, so perhaps it would actually just fill the AP with so-called "tinsel fails."

I think that would make it better, in my humble opinion. It'd be like actual genetics coming into play without all the scientific gobbledy-goop.

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This is an interesting mechanic. It'd almost work for any dragon as well (because in any lineage, there are exponentially more lower gens than higher gens.

 

Though remember that breeding multiple eggs doesn't necessarily mean that they'll all be prize eggs, so perhaps it would actually just fill the AP with so-called "tinsel fails."

 

 

 

Lol, this is great - I would have thought this would be harder to code and less likely to be considered!

 

No mention of any potential for a ratio increase, though...

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I think that would make it better, in my humble opinion. It'd be like actual genetics coming into play without all the scientific gobbledy-goop.

Actual genetics dont steadily decline or increase fertility, though. It also gives unfair focus to lower gens, when there are so many nice ways to breed higher gens.

 

With ratios especially, creating many more low gens would doom high gen breeders to a lot of fruitless effort.

 

 

That aside, I wanted to nake a note on the supposedly hard to get liw to mid gen shimmers: I repeatedly iffered up 4-6g shimmers for few (1-2) crimson hatchies. I've had a lot better trades when asking for more valuable stuff, because people can't be bothered to work even that much, not even in an iou-form. blink.gif

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Actual genetics dont steadily decline or increase fertility, though. It also gives unfair focus to lower gens, when there are so many nice ways to breed higher gens.

 

With ratios especially, creating many more low gens would doom high gen breeders to a lot of fruitless effort.

I was referring more so to the possibility of getting a mixture of prize and prize-kin babies. The chances of getting 1 to 4 prizes would be just as random (or not random depending on how far one wants to consider the genetics thing) as the chances of getting 1 to 4 prize-kins. For example, say a CB prize produces 4 babies in a clutch. That clutch could contain any combination of the following: 1) all 4 babies are prizes, 2) 3 babies are prizes and 1 is a prize-kin, 3) 2 babies are prizes and 2 are prize-kin, 4) 1 baby is a prize and 3 are prize-kin, or 5) all four babies are prize-kin. The same would be true for 2nd, 3rd, and 4th+ gens.

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This is an interesting mechanic. It'd almost work for any dragon as well (because in any lineage, there are exponentially more lower gens than higher gens.

 

Though remember that breeding multiple eggs doesn't necessarily mean that they'll all be prize eggs, so perhaps it would actually just fill the AP with so-called "tinsel fails."

Something's going to have to be done about how eggs gain views in the AP then (or something added to the API to tell hatchery sites to boot any egg that shows as abandoned).* Because right now, with the AP as it stands, any curious person can stalk a CB Prize thanks to the oh-so-helpful lists of known codes on the wiki site, see if it's got babies, and stalk those. And it only takes *one* "helpful" person to add an abandoned egg to a fansite "so it doesn't DIIIIIE!" and the rest of us will never see that egg again. It'll hatch in the AP, go to the back of the queue, then grow up Wild. And people *still* won't be able to grab a 2nd gen prize from the AP.

 

*The second option is probably preferable. The fansites are choked these days and it's probably better if peoples' views go to eggs that are actually ON scrolls. tongue.gif

Edited by Amazon_warrior

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Why not try to implement multi-clutching for prizes like this:

CB: Chance of breeding up to 4 eggs.

2nd gen: Chance of breeding up to 3 eggs.

3rd gen: Chance of breeding up to 2 eggs.

4th gen and higher: no multi-clutches possible (unless mated to a holiday dragon during its breeding season)

Hmmm... I am warming up to the idea of multiclutching. Although I still fear we'll still have the hoarding problem and the trade value problem (although the latter may become less if there would be an increase of 2nd gens prize dragons).

This suggestion, though, is something I find interesting. Allthough this should perhaps be combined with a higher success rate for breeding prizes. Otherwise it still wouldn't solve the original problems. Just a little reminder cause the thread is getting quite long already smile.gif :

Mountains of PMs to the prize dragon winners (some resulting into harassment)

Very low amount of people actually receiving a CB prize dragon

Due to ratios/breedingdecisions/whatever only a low amount of low-gen prize dragons become available

Mostly high-gen prize dragons become available while a certain part of the players prefers low-gen prize dragons.

Abanboned egg hatching prevention
I totally agree with you. Abandoned eggs growing up in the AP is counterproductive. Is this something which can be done on the side of the API (something like: abandoned code/status: deny access. I guess this lies with TJ) or is this something that should be coded into the hatcheries (hatchery owners)? I don't know, cause I've never set up a hatchery.

 

It also gives unfair focus to lower gens, when there are so many nice ways to breed higher gens.
But one of the big problems is the fact that low-gen dragons are so hard to come by (read: you have to pay with a lot of (rare) dragons to be able to get a low-gen prize dragon, while this is not possible for lots of players like newbies, people who have a fulltime job and simply don't have the time to hunt the cave for those rares). Personally I don't care about the low-gen or high-gen. I've been gifted a wonderful 12-gen tinsel, which I absolutely adore! And I've got more high-gen prize dragons. Only 1 which would be considered low-gen I assume (4th gen).

But I do understand there's quite a group of players who prefer low-gen prize dragons.

 

With ratios especially, creating many more low gens would doom high gen breeders to a lot of fruitless effort.

Okay, I have to admit, I'm not a big time breeder (yet) but how would more low-gens doom high gen breeders? I'd think you'd get a bigger basis and thus increase the chance to create even higher gens, if that's what you're after.

 

I'm still in favor of a combination of the original suggestions 1, 5 and 7, so here's my adjusted suggestion of the combination:

New suggestion?

Base:

Take a percentage of entries for winners instead of an absolute amount of winners and up the percentages of both 1st place, 2nd place, 3rd place and the HM

Olympe's suggestion for the multiclutching:

CB: Chance of breeding up to 4 eggs.

2nd gen: Chance of breeding up to 3 eggs.

3rd gen: Chance of breeding up to 2 eggs.

4th gen and higher: no multi-clutches possible (unless mated to a holiday dragon during its breeding season)

Higher success rate for breeding prize dragons as reports suggest that the success rate has gone down. I don't know if this really is a problem. Maybe TJ can say something about these kidn of results?

Adjustment to API/hatcheries to deny access to the eggs/hatchlings on the AP to prevent prize dragons from growing up through the AP and going into the wild instead of on someone's scroll.

Prize dragons released during the years:

Year 1: special dragon 1 for prizes in raffle

Year 2: special dragon 1 for prizes in raffle

Year 3: special dragon 2 for prizes in raffle, special dragon 1 retires and becomes available for HM as CB

Year 4: Same as year 3

Year 5: Special dragon 3 for prizes in raffle, special dragon 1 becomes available as a rare dragon in the cave. Special dragon 2 becomes available for HM as CB

Year 6: Special dragon 3 for prizes in raffle, Special dragon 2 is still available for HM as CB

Year 7: Special dragon 4 for prizes in raffle, special dragon 2 becomes available as a rare dragon in the cave, special dragon 3 becomes available for HM as CB.

etc.

This might help in getting out more CB Prize dragons, more low-gen prize dragons and prevention from eggs/hatchlings from growing up through the AP.

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Something needs to be done about hatchies growing up in the AP anyway, but last time I brought the thread up, TJ thought I'd lost my marbles because hatchies couldn't be growing up in the AP. Despite the fact that they most assuradly were. xd.png

 

Hrm.... *goes to find that thread again and bump it

 

No matter what happens, I think there needs to be a lot more prizes this year. And really like Sheriziya's most recent suggestion, and would quote it but I'm having a fail moment. xd.png

 

Cheers!

C4.

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Something needs to be done about hatchies growing up in the AP anyway, but last time I brought the thread up, TJ thought I'd lost my marbles because hatchies couldn't be growing up in the AP. Despite the fact that they most assuradly were. xd.png

 

Hrm.... *goes to find that thread again and bump it

 

No matter what happens, I think there needs to be a lot more prizes this year. And really like Sheriziya's most recent suggestion, and would quote it but I'm having a fail moment. xd.png

 

Cheers!

C4.

I can offer you some proof of that one, as I accidentally APd two which later grew up wild. I put them in a hatchery that accepted AP eggs, as I had hoped to retrieve them - but no....

 

I assume TJ can tell they were NEVER owned by anyone after I bred them... I do know I tracked them constantly but never managed to have someone catch them...

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Something needs to be done about hatchies growing up in the AP anyway, but last time I brought the thread up, TJ thought I'd lost my marbles because hatchies couldn't be growing up in the AP. Despite the fact that they most assuradly were. xd.png

 

Hrm.... *goes to find that thread again and bump it

 

No matter what happens, I think there needs to be a lot more prizes this year. And really like Sheriziya's most recent suggestion, and would quote it but I'm having a fail moment. xd.png

 

Cheers!

C4.

Before I posted, I bred a test egg and AP'ed it immediately, then added the code to Silvis. It started gaining views, and I'll keep an eye on it to see where it ends up.

Edited by Amazon_warrior

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Before I posted, I bred a test egg and AP'ed it immediately, then added the code to Silvis.  It started gaining views, and I'll keep an eye on it to see where it ends up.

Maybe you can post it's lineage page here? I'm very curious biggrin.gif

 

And thanks, Cyradis! I'm glad you liked my suggestion smile.gif

Edited by Sheriziya

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Maybe you can post it's lineage page here? I'm very curious biggrin.gif

 

And thanks, Cyradis! I'm glad you liked my suggestion smile.gif

Sure, but I'll post it in the other thread. It's only tangentially relevant here. smile.gif

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Before I posted, I bred a test egg and AP'ed it immediately, then added the code to Silvis. It started gaining views, and I'll keep an eye on it to see where it ends up.

Yes - that's exactly what I did with the two that autod for me:

 

http://dragcave.net/lineage/U0F3k and http://dragcave.net/lineage/FNKeL

 

I had hoped to retrieve them (they are (were sad.gif) part of the Europe project.) But no - and others watched for them too....

 

I'd support everything being in there by time to run. So a 4.23 hatchling would be in the AP behind a 2.13 egg, but before a 5 day egg.

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Okay, I have to admit, I'm not a big time breeder (yet) but how would more low-gens doom high gen breeders? I'd think you'd get a bigger basis and thus increase the chance to create even higher gens, if that's what you're after.

 

ratios basically work this way: with more dragons created, they breed less in the future.

 

so if the 2gs breed potentially more eggs, they will potentially also have more trueborn offspring. to make up for that, something will have to have less offspring. which in this case, with reducing eggs per generation, would be the higher gens.

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I love the idea of the CBs producing big clutches, 2nd gens producing medium-sized clutches, 3rd gens producing 1 or 2 eggs, and higher gens having single clutches.

 

This could actually completely change the trading market for DC in interesting ways. Higher gens would increase in value (because they'd be a little bit less common) without necessarily compromising the value of 2nd gens.

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I think that would make it better, in my humble opinion.  It'd be like actual genetics coming into play without all the scientific gobbledy-goop.

I was referring more so to the possibility of getting a mixture of prize and prize-kin babies. 

 

Back when all dragons could multi-clutch, it was not unusual to have eggs of both parents produced. I could just as easily end up with 4 golds as I could 3 golds and 1 purple or 3 purples and 1 gold or 2 of each or whatever combo of just 3 eggs or just 2 eggs as well as 1 egg or no egg. It was a bit of a surprise that when multi-clutching became exclusive to holiday only dragons (when in season) that they did not seem to be able to produced mixed batches.

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I love the idea of the CBs producing big clutches, 2nd gens producing medium-sized clutches, 3rd gens producing 1 or 2 eggs, and higher gens having single clutches.

 

This could actually completely change the trading market for DC in interesting ways. Higher gens would increase in value (because they'd be a little bit less common) without necessarily compromising the value of 2nd gens.

But there's one problem.

As TJ mentioned before, they won't all be prize dragon.

There's a chance of producing the mate's breed, therfore, if I breed a rare with prize, I could get more rares from breeding it also.

Other than that, I think this system is perfect wink.gif

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But there's one problem.

As TJ mentioned before, they won't all be prize dragon.

There's a chance of producing the mate's breed, therfore, if I breed a rare with prize, I could get more rares from breeding it also.

Other than that, I think this system is perfect wink.gif

Except no, because you cannot keep ALL the bred eggs, only ONE of them. The rest go to the AP. Which is the point of the suggestion.

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Except no, because you cannot keep ALL the bred eggs, only ONE of them. The rest go to the AP. Which is the point of the suggestion.

Well, is which egg to keep random, or selected?

I'm guessing selected.

Not all four breed slot will susses, for rares in general, I think maybe one from each time would be a average number.

Then, instead of 1 rare every month, it would be 1 rare every week.

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Well, is which egg to keep random, or selected?

I'm guessing selected.

Not all four breed slot will susses, for rares in general, I think maybe one from each time would be a average number.

Then, instead of 1 rare every month, it would be 1 rare every week.

 

 

 

 

 

Not necessarily, I'm afraid.

 

You can breed up to 4 eggs, could be one or none, and any combination or single-breed (edit: result) is possible, with typically a much higher likelihood of getting a common than a rare egg.

 

So unless we have an increase in the Prize breeding ratios, there would be a lot of Shimmerkin produced and the same numbers of Shimmers, although different dragons/breeding pairs seem to have different production rates and I have been for some time rather wondering is this has anything to do with particular scrolls, since my rares seem to typically breed with less frequency than many, with regard to reproducing their own kind.

Edited by Syphoneira

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Not necessarily, I'm afraid.

 

You can breed up to 4 eggs, could be one or none, and any combination or single-breed (edit: result) is possible, with typically a much higher likelihood of getting a common than a rare egg.

 

So unless we have an increase in the Prize breeding ratios, there would be a lot of Shimmerkin produced and the same numbers of Shimmers, although different dragons/breeding pairs seem to have different production rates and I have been for some time rather wondering is this has anything to do with particular scrolls, since my rares seem to typically breed with less frequency than many, with regard to reproducing their own kind.

I guess you're right.....

but my problem is, breeding 4 times is much likelier to produce eggs rather then breeding once.....

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I guess you're right.....

but my problem is, breeding 4 times is much likelier to produce eggs rather then breeding once.....

 

 

You're certainly right, but if you breed rares such as CB Golds or CB Silvers with anything but a CB Prize, the trade worth is diminished by lineage length, if the issue you're concerned with is an increase in the use of metallics as mates to try to increase bred Golds/Silvers?

 

Is that why you perceive a problem?

 

If I have it wrong, lease let me know. smile.gif

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I guess you're right.....

but my problem is, breeding 4 times is much likelier to produce eggs rather then breeding once.....

Not if they breed like my first ever silver. It's taken me nearly 4 years to breed the rest of my set. she was female so I needed a Male, and 3 hatchlings. I got her March 2010. This is what I have after breeding her every week I was here during that time: http://dragcave.net/progeny/UW5F .(managed to get lucky and someone gifted me another one who more agreeable. or I still wouldn't have a full set)

 

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Not if they breed like my first ever silver. It's taken me nearly 4 years to breed the rest of my set. she was female so I needed a Male, and 3 hatchlings. I got her March 2010. This is what I have after breeding her every week I was here during that time: http://dragcave.net/progeny/UW5F .(managed to get lucky and someone gifted me another one who more agreeable. or I still wouldn't have a full set)

 

 

Lol, I can add a few examples, although many of mine simply produced no egg at all for extended periods.

 

These from years of multiclutches, after a spot of luck in catching I had (on an elderly computer,) in a short period, and you'd better believe they were bred a lot, lol:

 

 

http://dragcave.net/progeny/5HzS - Egg Stolen on: Dec 29, 2008

 

http://dragcave.net/progeny/3eZd - Egg Stolen on: Apr 11, 2009

 

http://dragcave.net/progeny/bXVw - Egg Stolen on: Dec 22, 2008

 

 

http://dragcave.net/progeny/rr1f - Egg Stolen on: Dec 24, 2008

 

 

 

 

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ratios basically work this way: with more dragons created, they breed less in the future.

 

so if the 2gs breed potentially more eggs, they will potentially also have more trueborn offspring. to make up for that, something will have to have less offspring. which in this case, with reducing eggs per generation, would be the higher gens.

I can see what you mean. I do wonder, though, if this will be indeed the result. I expect we'll have a higher chance on fails instead of succes, since the dragons are supposed to be rares.

I've seen people reporting breed results which up until now don't bode well for the prize dragons, as in: no prize dragons, but only the (more) commons.

 

Unless this changes, the multiclutching might not actually give a whole lot more 2nd gen. But that assumption is based not on my personal experience, unfortunately, since I haven't bred that much yet.

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