ANSWERED:Suggestions to improve the raffle

[Syphoneira]

It's come to a point where I just think TJ shouldn't do any more raffles. I hate the attitude of certain people towards raffle dragons. ~Removed~ I don't like the exclusion some people were already forming, "you are worthy. and you are not.". The winners themselves didn't do anything special to be "worthy" of a prize so judging on that basis is pretty disgusting.

 

Anyway, all of this is just to say that everytime January comes, there's always people fighting. When prizes come out, there are people wishing bad things for the owners, others fake concern to see if they can get a good trade out of naive winners and then some winners can't even handle the pressure. Honestly, I don't even know why we have raffles if it's not to stress the community and make the trading forums explode. Getting the "tickets" and the wait is fun. But after that It's not fun anymore to anyone except those who win and those who get on lists early on and/or have means to get on lists (sorry if you think otherwise, it's just my opinion). Sorry if I sound mean or greedy or whatever, but I'm quite tired of all of this. It would be easier to just gift prizes to everyone, but only one color to each person. Done. No more problems to anyone and no more dramas, but trading would still exist to get all colors. Why does it need to be a special dragon anyway? What do we do that is so special that we need a special dragon as reward?

 

Again, I apologize for the rudeness, reading that other thread put me in a very bad mood

 

 

 

Hi, LaHaine,

 

~Removed~

 

 

This is DC, where a disparate group of people gather to collect dragons, and there are going to be unpleasant incidents when and wherever people don't care to try to avoid hurting the feelings of others, but that's a ongoing issue which still sometimes crops up.

 

The raffle would be a lot more fun and the adverse effects drastically reduced if the numbers drawn were in proportion to the entry numbers, and if the breeding ratios were better.

 

Scarcity situations make people desperate.

 

The raffles were a great idea and should be a happy event, with hopeful people, not something resulting in those wishing to maximize what would still be their own virtually impossible chances by excluding others outside their own group, or harassing people to let them get on lists for a very limited number of slow-producing dragons because with a literal few Prizes given out among a group of however many thousands of fanatic collectors with little hope of 'getting them all'.

 

Only an expansion of prizes beyond anything yet suggested - around 5-10% of entries - would be likely to fully achieve this effect, but it could certainly be alleviated by the increase to 1% of entries which fuzzbucket advocates - especially with a ratio increase for breeding.

 

Those who complain that insane prices could no longer restrict benefits to the very few if the prizes were less insanely rare have rather shown their own hand...

 

We're dealing not only with human nature, but with human nature among obsessive collectors, after all.

 

Making things like Releases and Raffles fun for the great bulk of people not having super-fast catching machines to catch/trade for even outrageously rare dragons makes the great bulk of people happy and keeps them playing - I'd think that's worth a little grousing from a few people who want the sort of struggle some people have to cope with catching even commons in the Cave, without giving up the advantages that make it easy for them.

Edited January 5, 2014 by SockPuppet Strangler

[whitebaron]

~Removed~ Edited January 5, 2014 by SockPuppet Strangler

[Fuzzbucket]

Hi, LaHaine,

 

~Removed~

~Removed~

Edited January 5, 2014 by SockPuppet Strangler

[Syphoneira]

~Off-topic post removed~ Edited January 5, 2014 by SockPuppet Strangler

[WraithZephyr]

Sadly, this. I remember, back before Prizes and raffles were a Thing, the deep upset and hurt of people who, having managed to finally grab their dream rare from the Cave or AP, came back to their scroll later find it view-bombed to death because someone else didn't catch it and decided that if *they* couldn't have it then *no one* should. Which is AWFUL.

Actually this still happens. It happened to a person who caught a CB silver egg last night. They didn't put it in any hatchery, but sadly didn't think to fog it either. Someone else apparently threw it in a bunch of hatcheries and it died from sickness.

[Fuzzbucket]

Yeah. Saw that; it was nasty.

 

Someone once murdered four COMMONS of mine in the night. I still don't know why....

 

Well, of course, I am a vile and horrible person, but even so, it wasn't very fair on the eggs; it wasn't their fault I picked them up !

 

whitebaron was spot on there

 

~Removed~

Edited January 5, 2014 by SockPuppet Strangler

[lilacamy931]

I'm drafting something right now to post in Site Discussion. It's slow going though, so don't look for it too soon.  tongue.gif

 

Ah well done, good to know someone willing to do something like this

 

~Removed~

 

Absolutely this whether the prizes were here or not unfortunately. An increase in prizes would at least mean more distribution depending how their breeding ratios are coming along.

Edited January 5, 2014 by SockPuppet Strangler

[LaHaine]

 

 

Hi, LaHaine,

 

~Removed~

 

 

 

This is DC, where a disparate group of people gather to collect dragons, and there are going to be unpleasant incidents when and wherever people don't care to try to avoid hurting the feelings of others, but that's a ongoing issue which still sometimes crops up.

 

The raffle would be a lot more fun and the adverse effects drastically reduced if the numbers drawn were in proportion to the entry numbers, and if the breeding ratios were better.

 

Scarcity situations make people desperate.

 

The raffles were a great idea and should be a happy event, with hopeful people, not something resulting in those wishing to maximize what would still be their own virtually impossible chances by excluding others outside their own group, or harassing people to let them get on lists for a very limited number of slow-producing dragons because with a literal few Prizes given out among a group of however many thousands of fanatic collectors with little hope of 'getting them all'.

 

Only an expansion of prizes beyond anything yet suggested - around 5-10% of entries - would be likely to fully achieve this effect, but it could certainly be alleviated by the increase to 1% of entries which fuzzbucket advocates - especially with a ratio increase for breeding.

 

Those who complain that insane prices could no longer restrict benefits to the very few if the prizes were less insanely rare have rather shown their own hand...

 

We're dealing not only with human nature, but with human nature among obsessive collectors, after all.

 

Making things like Releases and Raffles fun for the great bulk of people not having super-fast catching machines to catch/trade for even outrageously rare dragons makes the great bulk of people happy and keeps them playing - I'd think that's worth a little grousing from a few people who want the sort of struggle some people have to cope with catching even commons in the Cave, without giving up the advantages that make it easy for them.

~Off-topic removed~

 

 

Anyway, we do nothing special at all to win such a rare prize however the economy starts to spin around us if we win because we have absolute control of the CB version of a very special breed. And then there comes drama and we have to open threads about ideas to lessen the drama and harrassments of winners - doesn't it sound silly?

 

I don't like the feelings the raffles bring in, the rushes to get on lists, even if they are supposed to be fun. Even the other thread which was only about speculations and "what would you do if you won?" turned into a fight midway.

 

I also don't like having very few chances of having a CB version of a dragon just because it's a "raffle dragon". I'm in favor of a strong increase in the number of winners like you said. There's no reason why a browser game about collecting dragons should have such low chances to give away dragons, even if it's a "lol raffle"

 

 

 

(again, I apologize if I sound(ed) rude, I didn't mean to x.x )

Edited January 5, 2014 by SockPuppet Strangler

[Syphoneira]

~Off-topic removed~

 

 

But raffles tend to have very high odds of winning, unlike lotteries.

 

At least they always have had high chances of winning something, around here, between 30% - 50% of winning some donated prize, if I recall correctly, not having bought any tickets in some years.

 

And we certainly wouldn't be having all of these issues so badly if this raffle had decent chances.

 

They ought to be fun...

 

 

Edit: needed major sentence re-construction...

Edited January 5, 2014 by SockPuppet Strangler

[Sir Barton]

The raffle was a vast improvement to the voted on contest that started all of this. Just throwing that out there.

 

I was never in favor of the idea when it first came around because I knew it would lead to drama (though most things on DC do lend themselves to drama anyway) and a great deal of hard feelings. I'm really still not in favor of them, but that's because I think this game should be fun instead of frustrating and I would imagine the majority would be frustrated; forum and non-forum users. The fact that ugly arguments break out in threads like this would appear to support my view.

 

I would like to see a substantial increase in winners. Last year's increase did help and I think it only makes sense to follow along that path. Multi-clutching would be an huge plus as well.

Edited January 4, 2014 by Sir Barton

[Fuzzbucket]

The raffle was a vast improvement to the voted on contest that started all of this. Just throwing that out there.

Yes.

 

Yesyesyesyesyes.

 

That voting was just awful.

[xeyla]

I like the idea of Prizes multiclutching. That gives others a chance to grab them from the AP, which would result in more people having them, which sounds like what this thread was started for.

[Syphoneira]

I like the idea of Prizes multiclutching. That gives others a chance to grab them from the AP, which would result in more people having them, which sounds like what this thread was started for.

 

 

 

 

 

But the ratios would have to increase significantly to do any good, although the 2nd gen Shimmerkin would certainly be useful.

[EscapistLore]

I like the idea of Prizes multiclutching. That gives others a chance to grab them from the AP, which would result in more people having them, which sounds like what this thread was started for.

I was against the multiclutching. After thinking about it... perhaps there should be a chance of that when prizes breed. If I win, I'll be gifting anyways.. and this would make the trade price go down. (Of course ratios would need to be adjusted as well)

 

And we do need more prizes. Honestly, even with a 1% chance, I don't feel I've a chance of a snowball in the Sahara. 25%, would be nice, as thats around what I think raffles are meant as... it'd lower the trade price and reduce frustration. (Not all prizes, of course)

[Tawanda001]

Sometimes gifts come with stipulations.

I don't know, but I doubt there are few players who don't/won't breed their holidays simply because they can't control where all the offspring go. If you get a holiday and breed it you accept the fact that it's a package deal, breeding = multiclutching. People don't seem to have any problem with that at all. I don't think that it would be a stretch to think that people would accept it if prizes were the same way.

How many players would honestly turn down a prize or refuse to breed it simply because they couldn't keep all the eggs?

[DarkEternity]

It's come to a point where I just think TJ shouldn't do any more raffles. ~Removed~ I don't like the exclusion some people were already forming, "you are worthy. and you are not.". The winners themselves didn't do anything special to be "worthy" of a prize so judging on that basis is pretty disgusting.

 

~Removed~

 

I was against the multiclutching. After thinking about it... perhaps there should be a chance of that when prizes breed. If I win, I'll be gifting anyways.. and this would make the trade price go down. (Of course ratios would need to be adjusted as well)

If you win then reducing the number of CB prizes (fewer winners)and arguing against multiclutching is beneficial to you. If you don't win then increasing the number of CB prizes and increasing multiclutching would be beneficial to you.

 

Of course, if you are in my boat, then one eventually gets sick and tired of trading values altogether.

Edited January 5, 2014 by SockPuppet Strangler

[angelicdragonpuppy]

I do think it would be nice if the odds of Shimmers / Tinsels breeding true were upped, too. From the start Shimmers seemed to be breeding very poorly... I've been on a few lists that haven't moved in literal months because the Prizes only keep breeding the other thing. That's frustrating for the owners and frustrating for people looking for low-gens, too.

[Syphoneira]

I find it very sad that so many of us now tend to think in terms of trade values rather than dragons, and that keeping the most beautiful dragons insanely rare to keep up trade values is supposed to be desirable.

 

What's wrong with just getting a decent trade for Prize offspring, rather than some humungous price that would never before have been considered possible, at the cost of depriving the entire community?

 

Seriously.

[xeyla]

I do think it would be nice if the odds of Shimmers / Tinsels breeding true were upped, too. From the start Shimmers seemed to be breeding very poorly...

I can attest to that. Look at my boy's offspring list: http://dragcave.net/progeny/Es8Ng

 

Here I am trying to get a shimmer from him to fulfill a trade that I made... So far he only wants to give me a shimmer if I am gifting it away (which was the case with the 2 shimmers on his offspring list)

 

Now, if he were to multiclutch, I would be happy! I'd love to see the offspring end up on someone's scroll. It's the same idea of me gifting to random people, so to speak.

[Vhale]

Sometimes gifts come with stipulations.

I don't know, but I doubt there are few players who don't/won't breed their holidays simply because they can't control where all the offspring go. If you get a holiday and breed it you accept the fact that it's a package deal, breeding = multiclutching. People don't seem to have any problem with that at all. I don't think that it would be a stretch to think that people would accept it if prizes were the same way.

How many players would honestly turn down a prize or refuse to breed it simply because they couldn't keep all the eggs?

When teleport was changed and the old code nab from ap thing from the ap was removed, there was a holly owner or three that vowed to stop breeding their hollies because, in their words, people needed to work to get them. This year, I noticed they were still breeding them, despite multi-clutching.

 

The thing is, while people can make those kind of statements, they also have to sit back and watch everyone else breed, gift, trade their dragons. So, it becomes a very lonely place to be. But, that is also because people are yet to be so holly picky and they breed true at least once a year, en masse, from a much larger pool of cbs.

 

That said, at least one person froze their cb shimmer last year, so of course, that one will never breed. One person traded theirs immediately for metals. And one person threw theirs to the ap. So for sure, not everyone wants to deal with having one and having to deal with breed request spam.

 

It is interesting to contrast the two though no? One cb set will always get bigger due to HMs. While one will always get smaller, due to retiring, scroll burning, ratios etc. But one is an annual event, while the other is all year.

[Sir Barton]

I can attest to that. Look at my boy's offspring list: http://dragcave.net/progeny/Es8Ng

 

Here I am trying to get a shimmer from him to fulfill a trade that I made... So far he only wants to give me a shimmer if I am gifting it away (which was the case with the 2 shimmers on his offspring list)

 

Now, if he were to multiclutch, I would be happy! I'd love to see the offspring end up on someone's scroll. It's the same idea of me gifting to random people, so to speak.

I was lucky. My girl has a record that is just the opposite. http://dragcave.net/progeny/DACCL As long as she was willing to give me an egg, it was usually a shimmer. Of course I do have others that came along after who refuse to give me anything.

 

I fully support a tweak in the ratios to go along with that multi-clutching idea.

[WraithZephyr]

I kinda like the idea of multi-clutching. Even if the multi-clutch were limited to just 2 eggs (rather than the chance for up to 4)... the breeder gets their 2nd gen egg to do with as they please (trade for insane numbers of shiny stuff and what not), but at the same time there is another that gets automatically spread around with no strings attached... chances are several of those extras would end up in the hands of people who would never have had a chance to trade for one.

[xeyla]

I was lucky. My girl has a record that is just the opposite. http://dragcave.net/progeny/DACCL As long as she was willing to give me an egg, it was usually a shimmer. Of course I do have others that came along after who refuse to give me anything.

 

I fully support a tweak in the ratios to go along with that multi-clutching idea.

Oh my gosh! What do you do to her?! Some special dragon food or something?

 

Seeing how your luck works, if even a clutch of 2 eggs were viable, I could see many people being happy. Geeze, I would love the extra eggs now.

[Sir Barton]

I chalk it up to having been a gift from a super sweet person. That's why she turned out to be a really sweet dragon.

 

And because I like to gift in turn, I would have killed to have had her multi-clutch. That would have been all kinds of awesome.

Edited January 5, 2014 by Sir Barton

[whitebaron]

I think this is a perfectly fine example of shimmer ratios getting worse over time:

http://dragcave.net/progeny/GzgiJ

i hae no problems with that, as it only goes to show that which we all know: ratios cycle to far into boom/bust cycles, and thatstrue for all desirables.

 

She's been nice all year: http://dragcave.net/progeny/UZvX8

 

And, finally, they have bred eggs almost every week, their whole life: http://dragcave.net/progeny/hWgMx

 

 

So I really think, people base their assumptions on to small a basis. Shimmers breed true on over 10% when I massbreed mine, and probably double of that produce kin. If they were more common, it would make them breed like crimsons - no more fails.

 

 

That aside, I wonder why people have the flawed assumptions on multiclutching? Just because stuff goes to AP does not mean that anyone can get them. There'll be a whole new sport of stalking/tracking prize offspring that got abandoned, and trust me: there are people out there were you never have a chance to click first.