Remove GoN Breed Limits

[Banuk]

'Why not' indeed. If it doesn't affect ratios in any way, I have no problem at all with people owning 3, 5, or 9 GoNs.

 

Only issue would be the inevitable user bragging about their 17th summon to those who don't have any, but that can easily be solved with blunt objects.

Eh, it'd be no different than anyone bragging about their collection of 500 2nd gen. prizes, or 700 golds and silvers, or 1000 neglecteds, or biggest collection of X breed on the site. (Numbers and breeds I pulled out of nowhere, don't hit me pls.)

 

All are easily solved by blunt objects, indeed, and this is no different.

[Wends]

I do have to agree with those who profess 'why limit it?'

 

As long as the percentage chance of summoning remains untouched (or even gets progressively less skewed towards success after the second summon), why limit people to two? If people want to keep attempting to summon after years and years, why take away that option just because they've had two successes?

 

I mean, yes it's hard. But as I recall having read eons ago, it's a percent chance, not based on cave-population ratios. In other words, the fact that umpteen billion people have successfully summoned doesn't affect your chances of summoning. It's all based on a percentage chance so far as I've understood (and if I'm wrong, please correct me!).

 

So why not lift the limit? Heck, why not make summoning a third have a fractional percentage chance of success, just to "keep armies from occurring" as some people seem to fear? I wouldn't mind if it had a 0.05% chance of success - I'd still happily, diligently attempt to summon just because it's something to do with my trios.

 

And just because they're 'legendary', why be limited to two? If something's truly legendary, why not have limited it to one? Or like in some other games, make it a wandering dragon that graces your scroll for a week and then vanishes so someone else can summon it (like the wandering horses of howrse or something)? Even if it's a pokemon joke (which I frankly don't get, as I never got into the craze), others have stated that other jokes have proliferated the cave, and aren't fully representative of their pokemon correspondance.

 

If we wanted it 100% legendary, one per scroll like the leetle trees or wandering off a scroll after being summoned for a short time would've been more appropriate. As we get them to keep forever and ever (and can't even trade the buggers), I'm all for lifting the limit.

[~!~]

I like the idea of the chances decreasing, but considering how low the chances of a successful summon already are, I don't even think it's necessary.

 

I have an idea, though: After your second successful summon, your oldest Magma, Thunder, and Ice dragons get "burned out," and no longer count for summoning purposes. So they don't contribute to the "more complete trios = better odds of successful summon" deal, and if you only had one Ice, for instance, you'll have to get another one before you can try summoning again. This repeats for each successive summon, meaning you have to keep getting new trios if you want more than two GoNs.

[terradi]

I have zero GoN's. I'm excited about continuing to try and summon my first one. I have no issues with people summoning three or four or seventeen. We have people who've been around for years and collected every dragon. Why not let them have a bit of fun and try and summon up another GoN?

 

I'm one of those people who'd love to see it become possible to have more holidays (via keeping the ones we've bred) as well, so this idea of lifting limits on some of the traditionally restricted breeds is one that I support in general.

[Moltres]

The only reason I would want to be able to have more GoN's on my scroll, is for the same reason I'd like the limit of Christmas and V-day dragons to be raised.

 

I'd like the numbers to be raised to at least..5 of each. At least for me..not sure about anyone else.

 

That way, you can get two adults (both genders if they have the ability to gender male and female), two gendered hatchies, and one newbord "yet to gender" hatchie.

 

Though, perhaps make it so, if you already have two adults of limited dragons, the others you get do not grow up, and are instantly frozen once they gender (if you don't freeze them already) and such.

 

I think it'd be cool.

[olympe]

I'm totally against increasing the number of GoNs per scroll, at least as long as there are breed limits for holidays. I mean, why increase the limit for GoNs - which are considered to be something like the gods among dragons (which is the reasoning behind them being unbreedable) - if mere holiday dragons are limited?

 

Second, even if you think that 2nd gen trios are too easy to get - or too hard to gift, whichever - there are still people who'd like to get some who don't frequent the IRC. And there are still people who'd love to get their hands on some CB trios, too. And just because they're (too?) easy to get for you doesn't mean they need to be harder to get, either. After all, they're uncommons, not metal-like rares. And they're uncommon - not rare! - for a reason. (To repeat the favorite argument of all people who love rares to be extra rare...)

 

And regarding the argument that "allowing you to summon more GoNs gives your trios something to do" - you can still breed them, can't you? You can even create lineages with them. Just like with every other dragon. There's no reason for trios to be super extra special.

 

(Oh, and just for the record - I have summoned two GoNs by now. So, no, I'm not one of those people who say, "I don't even have one, so you shouldn't have more than two!" I'd be directly affected by a change.)

Edited February 26, 2013 by olympe

[Nectaris]

I'm totally against increasing the number of GoNs per scroll, at least as long as there are breed limits for holidays. I mean, why increase the limit for GoNs - which are considered to be something like the gods among dragons (which is the reasoning behind them being unbreedable) - if mere holiday dragons are limited?

 

Because the limit on holidays is to help others get them within a very limited time frame, while the number of GoNs doesn't affect anyone else(most likely) and you have all year to get them. Now, I do support an increase in the holiday limit, but my point is that the limits are there for completely different reasons.

Edited February 26, 2013 by Nectaris

[olympe]

Well, from what I can tel, the limit for holiday dragons doesn't serve its purpose - as Halloween dragons show. At least for GoNs, there is an RP reason as well as a "joke" reason. (It's inofficially called Lugia dragon, as anyone doing the "sort by breed" thing can verify: GoNs turn up directly before Luminas.)

[RainDear]

You may be able to get them all year, but some people have been trying for 3 years and don't have 1 yet. How fair will it be for them if people who already have 2 are able to have more, while they still wait for their first? After everyone has 2-then suggest the opportunity for more. That is basically the reason cited for the ability to have more holidays-because there are so many out there that everyone is able to have their 2 and there are some left over.

[Banuk]

You may be able to get them all year, but some people have been trying for 3 years and don't have 1 yet. How fair will it be for them if people who already have 2 are able to have more, while they still wait for their first? After everyone has 2-then suggest the opportunity for more. That is basically the reason cited for the ability to have more holidays-because there are so many out there that everyone is able to have their 2 and there are some left over.

It would be the same fairness as people who have been playing for three years and still don't have a CB metal, while others may have fifty.

 

Everyone has the same ability to get them, but some people are just lucky, have faster connections, ect.

 

I don't see how GoNs are any different. It's all just based on luck, really, and I don't see why anyone else's unluckiness should impact what I'm allowed to do on my scroll.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

It would be the same fairness as people who have been playing for three years and still don't have a CB metal, while others may have fifty.

 

Everyone has the same ability to get them, but some people are just lucky, have faster connections, ect.

 

I don't see how GoNs are any different. It's all just based on luck, really, and I don't see why anyone else's unluckiness should impact what I'm allowed to do on my scroll.

This. According to the laws of statistics, some people may never get a GoN ever. That doesn't mean that everyone else should have to miss out because of their bad luck.

[Nectaris]

You may be able to get them all year, but some people have been trying for 3 years and don't have 1 yet. How fair will it be for them if people who already have 2 are able to have more, while they still wait for their first? After everyone has 2-then suggest the opportunity for more. That is basically the reason cited for the ability to have more holidays-because there are so many out there that everyone is able to have their 2 and there are some left over.

That will never happen. There will always be people who just sign up who haven't tried for their first summon. I agree with what others are saying, that it is little different than people who have multiple CB metals, or even better, CB prizes, considering that they can ask and get just about anything for their offspring. These at least have no value other than decoration, unlike the other two scenarios.

 

And as you said, people are still struggling to get even one, how likely is it that someone is just going to be rolling in GoNs? There might be a person or two who is insanely lucky and gets one after the other, but the vast majority will struggle to get a third, much less a fourth or fifth. Just to be clear, I am not even at my limit yet, and don't really care to summon, but I support this.

 

@Olympe:

 

I have stated I am for an increase/doing away with limits on holidays, and I always have been. I was simply stating the reason that they are limited, while the only reason these have limits in an RP one that I do not agree with.

Edited February 26, 2013 by Nectaris

[Obscure_Trash]

It would be the same fairness as people who have been playing for three years and still don't have a CB metal, while others may have fifty.

 

Everyone has the same ability to get them, but some people are just lucky, have faster connections, ect.

 

I don't see how GoNs are any different. It's all just based on luck, really, and I don't see why anyone else's unluckiness should impact what I'm allowed to do on my scroll.

Except you can hunt for golds/silvers any time you're unlocked, can trade for one, or can be gifted one.

 

I don't really have a point except that I don't think the two situations are comparable, really. x3

[Banuk]

Except you can hunt for golds/silvers any time you're unlocked, can trade for one, or can be gifted one.

 

I don't really have a point except that I don't think the two situations are comparable, really. x3

They're comparable in that both are difficult to get, and that some people still don't have any after years, while other people have lots of CB metals and/or both their GoNs. Having more avenues in which to get something doesn't necessarily equate to it being less difficult to obtain.

 

I see more people saying they don't have CB metals than I do people saying they don't have a GoN, yet no one suggests limiting CB metals just because other people have lots of them.

Edited February 26, 2013 by Derranged

[Fuzzbucket]

They're comparable in that both are difficult to get, and that some people still don't have any after years, while other people have lots of CB metals and/or both their GoNs. Having more avenues in which to get something doesn't necessarily equate to it being less difficult to obtain.

 

I see more people saying they don't have CB metals than I do people saying they don't have a GoN, yet no one suggests limiting CB metals just because other people have lots of them.

Most "I don't have a GoN" posts are in the summoning thread. There's no point mentioning them elsewhere as no-one can help...

 

Just saying. I don't give a toss either way on this one !

[pinkgothic]

I don't have a Guardian of Nature yet, but I wouldn't mind a limit increase in the least - or a removal of the limit, which I'd prefer, actually, since, because I don't understand why the limit should be any one arbitrary number, I'd have a hard time defending any other limit on them. ;; That being said, I am assuming it wouldn't make other people's first attempts any more difficult.

 

I figure the following posts have already covered my more detailed opinions well enough:

 

1) "It's a Legendary pokémon pun."

 

Moltres, Articuno, and Zapdos also can only be captured once.

 

(Which is to say: Magmas, Ices and Thunders are also not limited.)

 

2) "But I don't even have one yet, why should people be allowed to get more than two?"

 

(I really don't like how people are using, "I don't have one yet, so no one should be able to have more." as their reason to not support this. I don't see why I should potentially be deprived of future GoNs because you don't have yours yet, I'm sorry. Unless we know for sure that there is some sort of ratio work behind the GoN, saying that just sounds a bit petty and jealous, in my honest opinion.)

 

3) "Getting two was enough of a pain!"

 

But I'm REALLY failing to understand the "I gave up, I hate it, nobody else should be allowed to have more!" mindset.  You gave up before getting 2, so...  What, exactly?  It's not like you would suddenly be forced to start again.  If you already gave up, then I really don't see how raising the limit would effect you in the slightest.

 

So... there you go.

Edited February 26, 2013 by pinkgothic

[KageSora]

Because the limit on holidays is to help others get them within a very limited time frame, while the number of GoNs doesn't affect anyone else(most likely) and you have all year to get them.  Now, I do support an increase in the holiday limit, but my point is that the limits are there for completely different reasons.

This.

 

And, what if the holiday limit changes? What then? The whole "holidays are limited" argument will fall apart completely.

 

And I'd like to see an increase in the holiday limits.

 

And Halloween isn't considered the same as the other holidays--if it was, it would be limited. It's the greedy holiday, of course you can try to get as many as possible. The others holidays are about giving, hence the limits in the past. Those limits serve their purpose just fine--letting more people get the dragons during the "sharing" holidays, in the limited amount of time they're around.

 

You may be able to get them all year, but some people have been trying for 3 years and don't have 1 yet. How fair will it be for them if people who already have 2 are able to have more, while they still wait for their first? After everyone has 2-then suggest the opportunity for more. That is basically the reason cited for the ability to have more holidays-because there are so many out there that everyone is able to have their 2 and there are some left over.

That doesn't even make sense.

 

There will never be a time when everybody has 2 GoNs, OR 2 of each holiday. There will ALWAYS be new people, or people who are unlucky, etc.

 

Holidays can handle a limit increase BECAUSE of how many people there are--more people obtaining them means more people breeding them which means more eggs to go around to people who still don't have them.

 

GoNs, being unbreedable, are an entirely different beast altogether.

 

And, as was said, how is it any less fair than those who have lots of rare dragons (esp. CB metals), and people who have played as long or longer have less--or none? How is it any different?

 

Hell, it would even be BETTER than that case, provided that GoNs don't have a ratio that controls them like all the others. For every CB metal that a person who already has several obtains, that's one less CB metal that a person who has none can get. For every GoN a person with one already has, that's NOT one less GoN that somebody who has none can get--again, provided it's entirely luck-based. If there IS a ratio, then I would suggest changing it to being fully luck-based, honestly.

 

Since it's not like they're produced like other dragons, and not everybody can try to grab/breed them, I think they should be the exception anyway. Since they already are in terms of how they're made.

 

Except you can hunt for golds/silvers any time you're unlocked, can trade for one, or can be gifted one.

 

I don't really have a point except that I don't think the two situations are comparable, really. x3

I see it as you can get a GoN as an extension of the trios, and you can trade for/be gifted/breed/hunt for trios just the same way as you can hunt/breed/trade/be gifted metals.

 

So, once you have a trio, you can start summoning for however long you want to try summoning.

 

So, in that regard, I kinda see it as the same thing--you're limited only by needing a single set of mature trios and having one egg slot open. Kinda like with a CB metal, you're limited only by your free time to hunt and/or your luck in getting good trade fodder. GoNs just add one extra layer of needing certain other dragons on your scroll plus luck.

 

It's kinda like I view GoNs as equivalent to breeding a 2nd gen metal. As long as you can hunt for/trade for/be gifted the CB metals, you can keep trying until you manage to breed a 2nd gen. As long a you can hunt for/breed for/trade for/be gifted a set of trios, you can keep summing until you manage to get a GoN. And the more you get, the better your odds are--kinda like how if you have a lot of CB metals, you have more chances to get a 2nd gen.

Edited February 26, 2013 by KageSora

[aussieJJDude]

I would love this idea to get moe than 2 gon per scroll - even though I have 0...

[Pixxelation]

I support making the limit 3, as I do with the holidays. Any more is unnecessary.

[purpledragonclaw]

What about people who want one of each gender in each stage (except stage 1) for freezing purposes? That's why I thought the limit of 5 was suggested.

 

While the original movie this was based on, Pokemon the Movie: 2000, only featured 1 Lugia, since Lugia has become more widely available I can see the logic in having more GoNs per scroll. As long as the chance of summoning remains a fixed number based on the number of Trio sets on one's scroll, I wouldn't mind an increase in GoNs.

Edited February 26, 2013 by purpledragonclaw

[Ayelldee]

There's no good reason to raise the limit on GoN's. They're supposed to be the Uber Rares anyway.

[Emeraldmay]

There's no good reason to raise the limit on GoN's. They're supposed to be the Uber Rares anyway.

They will remain ultra rare due to the low chances of summoning as it is. Adding more would help those who have "Collect All the Sprites" goals, allow those who love the sprite to appreciate it more, and as I think Dubious? said earlier, allow those who have got their 2 to keep taking part in that part of the community.

 

I know that everytime I press that button, I get a little thrill of the odds being spun, and wondering whether I get it, the same as when you have that hopeful click on the CB Gold, slowly open your eyes after biting an egg, or watch slowly for that egg picture to load after breeding, praying it's a metallic. And I think for those who aren't great at catching, or don't have many dragons to breed, being able to click that button every 2 weeks would make the game more exciting

[skiddajane]

I think it would be a great idea to have more goNs! Orrrr...... maybe once a month an action could be that they allow one egg to mature into an adult instantly. Instead of them just being pretty to look at. People want them to be valuable to them.

[olympe]

Not really. I don't think we need GoNs to have any kind of BSA. Besides, they're über-rare, and even regular rares are not supposed to get one. The value of a GoN is its gorgeous sprite, and the fact that you got it.

[Iside]

If they are intended to be ultra rare, then allowing people to get more then 2 wouldn't make them even more rare, and so even harder to get for people who are still trying to summon their first one ?

Edited March 5, 2013 by Iside