Notice Regarding Trading Harassment

[Starscream]

I'm glad this has been adressed. I've only had one such experience myself, aside from some slightly persistent people, but I know of others who had more of an issue and didn't know what to do about it. Even if the topic doesn't stop rudeness, at least it lets people know it's ok to contact a moderator if someone is going so far as to harass them.

It was mainly wanted that people who are being bothered can know that they are welcome to contact staff. If they do not understand they can, it will continue and it has to absolutely stop.

[Dubious]

However, one question I would like to ask: If you send a user a trade message or breeding request (and are tracking the message) and they've read your PM but haven't responded for days; is it harassment to then send them a gentle poke for an answer?

I would imagine that this would amount to harassment.

 

Edit, however, apparently I was wrong.

 

I have been on the other end of things about a year ago when I got constant pm's from someone wanting a trade for one of my tinsels. I kept saying 'no I am not interested in what you are offering, but thank you anyway.' In the end I accepted to trade with them because I was tired of what felt like being harassed and just wanted to get them off my back.

Edited February 18, 2013 by Dubious

[ZzelaBusya]

Looking at everyone's replies, I am probably the only person here who is strongly against a rule of that sort.

 

I am often sent PMs like that myself, mostly when I trade rare dragons and say that I want no other offers for them apart from what I list. And seeing that I hate ignoring PMs and try not to do that (I do that only when I miss the message by accident), sometimes it takes so many messages to actually get across with the person that I am not willing to let my dragon(s) go for anything else. But still, it's not like I mind too much. I mean, it's just a PM, come on. You are free to just ignore it and go further, although as I said, ignoring messages is horrible to me, unless it has a serious reason (like rl problems or whatnot).

 

It's just that the whole thing will make trading so much more difficult and may create a tense atmosphere and discomfort. Say I have noticed that someone is an owner of a CB Shimmer-scale. And PM them because I have CB Metals and am looking for a trade. So now, instead of simply waiting for a reply, I will be having thoughts that maybe that user is pissed off, maybe they are not answering because they considered me too demanding (although I never demand, I only ask), whether sending a reminder would be okay or I'll get reported and warned by the mods...

 

You have already banned IOUs from the official trades and let us have them only in our signatures and via PM. And now you're touching *private* messages even concerning such simple things as trades.

 

Seriously. If you get a PM from a person who keeps demanding something again and again, it's so easy to reply shortly or ignore it if you are fine with doing it. If I get an offer I do not want to accept, I'll simply say something like, "No, sorry, but thank you and good luck trading." And I will do that a thousand times more if needed, what's the bother?

 

Really strange...

 

But well, hopefully this rule helps the site and all. In any case, since people seem to like it, thank you for caring for others.

 

 

 

Anyway, I have a question.

 

For example, if a person A PMs person B, who owns a Dragon X, and ask them whether they are trading offsprings from Dragon X. The answer is negative. Okay, understood, they are not taking requests because their list is closed. Now would it be considered harassment if person A asked person B whether they can get back to them once they are open for trading again, for example? That is what I have done before actually, it has helped me before because people remembered me and kindly PMed me back when their list got open again, and I would have never thought that it can be regarded as something bad; I really hope at least that is okay?

Edited February 18, 2013 by ZzelaBusya

[SolarCat]

I have only had an issue with two users. Both are now blocked.

 

One of them started by politely requesting a 2nd gen purebred gold. When I stated that my only two CB golds didn't like each other, they then insisted that I owed them two 2nd gen golds, one from each. Um, no.

 

The other was similar, only started out as demanding and when I told them no for the 2nd gen purebred gold they started insisting on purebred 2nd gen trios instead, and got angry when I said no.

 

Some people don't understand that "I breed on request (but not rares)" means I'm not going to breed them free rares. Thank you for the reminder of trading etiquette.

 

@ZzelaBusya, I'd imagine that would be okay. A thank you for the answer and an inquiry into how they manage their list (especially since some people open a spot as soon as a dragon is bred; others wait until the entire list is empty then open it all at once; etc.) would be more than polite. I don't think the issue is so much asking for trades, it's that some people aren't polite about it, and others have a sense of entitlement about "You have to give this to me!" and set out to make the other miserable since they said "No." This rule isn't to hurt the normal people, it's a reminder to those trading to remain civil and polite and respectful.

Edited February 18, 2013 by SolarCat

[dragongrrl]

Thank you for this. While I have not had a problem like this, it is always good to have clear boundaries, just in case the situation arises.

[Katie]

I had a real problem with someone harassing me over Holly offspring one year and it was incredibly unpleasant. Looking back, I should have just reported and blocked them because they were so rude about it and it left a really bad taste in my mouth. It's a shame to hear other people may be having similar problems, but hopefully this notice will make people think before they PM (and give owners something to point at if they're feeling got at).

I'm sorry that happened to you. <3 Getting harassed over a trade isn't fun. I had an incident when I was getting harassed about a trade. It wasn't on DC but feeling the wrath of an online player who wants your egg gives you an icky feeling. I'm glad this notice is up so it gets people to think before they do or say something.

[Obscure_Trash]

If they want to be rude and completely ignore when someone speaks directly to them then there is nothing we can do about it.

While it may be rude to not answer somebody, perhaps the PM they are ignoring is rude itself or the PM shows they didn't read trading request rules the user has up or perhaps they just forgot. Let's please not twist the purpose of this topic.

 

No one is required to answer a PM.

 

One gentle poke PM just in case the person simply forgot to reply should be fine. Any unsolicited PMs after that are harassment.

 

~

 

When PM'ing mods with harassment, please forward the PMs if possible. Otherwise, do include details so mods can better look into and address the situation.

Edited February 18, 2013 by SockPuppet Strangler

[Hellen]

 

Anyway, I have a question.

 

For example, if a person A PMs person B, who owns a Dragon X, and ask them whether they are trading offsprings from Dragon X. The answer is negative. Okay, understood, they are not taking requests because their list is closed. Now would it be considered harassment if person A asked person B whether they can get back to them once they are open for trading again, for example? That is what I have done before actually, it has helped me before because people remembered me and kindly PMed me back when their list got open again, and I would have never thought that it can be regarded as something bad; I really hope at least that is okay?

If you pm them once, and not every breeding they had, asking if the list is open NOW, and demand from them to put you on the list, even if they said no several times, and as long as you don´t go like "Oh thank you for putting me on the list!" even if they never said they would add you ...

 

Then not.

 

Just saying, harrassement can go really far.

Making a person burst out into tears.

That is not the "idea" behind DC. People should enjoy their dragons, and not being harrassed, bullied or shunned for deciding they do not wish to trade right now, for that amount or with that user.

[Spelunker]

Darn. I hope those who are being harassed see this topic! (and to Zzela, this topic was to let people know that they could contact people about this- it wasn't that there was any official rule being out in place.)

Edited February 18, 2013 by Spelunker

[arlymaye]

There are very young users (I assume) that is incoherent when taking *No thank you* for an answer. For PMs like those, I simply reply once and ignore their further begging. However, I do draw a line when it comes to *Intimidation*. When you feel uncomfortable with certain PMs and felt that you are being watched, stalked, harrassed and intimidated, we should have an outlet to go to. So, I do agree with *mod intervention* in cases like this.

 

Yes, it is easy to ignore PM but also, this doesn't give anyone any rights to continuously bombard one's inbox and makes DC life difficult. Anyone who feels intimidated should contact a mod.

[Starscream]

to add my own two pennies here.

 

I do not accept trade requests at all. If I post a trade, I post it where appropriate. I do not appreciate/accept PMs for trades. I may or may not answer. It's in my profile, its on my scroll and I think in my signature.

 

To ignore this I would consider harassment immediately. Unless people have it stated in there scrolls, profiles, or signatures that they are accepting then people should be very much left alone. If they decide to contact someone who is displaying an open invite to a PM that is a different matter. As long as it is willing on both sides of the coin.

 

If a person has not responded to a PM its possible to ask them if they did receive of if they got side tracked. I mean, people have school, work, family issues, kumquats, that need to be managed before they can deal with a game. Respect this.

 

The rule is not there to prevent people from trading but to protect those who are being hammered or hassled and having their rights trodden on.

 

IF I am an owner of a shimmerscale (other desirable rare) I do not want everyone PMing me. IF they want to trade offspring, they will make you aware that they are.

 

I am the sort of person who would make note of those who PMed or asked me and never make a deal with them unless such a deal was offered or posted in a trades forum or channel.

 

If a person does not wish to answer a PM that's their choice as well.

 

I agree with arlymaye's comment.

Edited February 18, 2013 by Starscream

[Spelunker]

Arly, I think people who can't handle "no" shouldn't be on here. Actually, the ToS says that you have to be 13 before joining the site. I figure if you are 13 and can't handle "no", then maybe you should just hold off a bit until you can.

[Ashywolf]

Exactly why I criticize people for PMing the raffle winners only hours after they recieve their prize.

[arlymaye]

Arly, I think people who can't handle "no" shouldn't be on here. Actually, the ToS says that you have to be 13 before joining the site. I figure if you are 13 and can't handle "no", then maybe you should just hold off a bit until you can.

Yes, I do agree but since I was also young once, , I give them some leeway. Usually, they don't bother me much ... I just can't stomach those exaggerated smilies and pitiful emotions in their PMs.

[ZzelaBusya]

Thank you for the answers, I'll keep in mind <3 Now just not to be paranoid about the whole thing - I often PM people with questions and now that I look back to it hopefully everything was okay, should be

 

Yes, I know harassment can go pretty far, I've experienced that myself, not only via PM on here but also via messengers and such ^^; Sometimes I am told things like, "I bet it didn't take you too much effort to get X, so you must send out eggs for cheap now!" Huh?

But at the same time it's not like I mind it too much, as I said. All fine.

 

@Starscream Now that's somehow...harsh I must say. oO But to each their own, heh...

[Dubious]

While it may be rude to not answer somebody, perhaps the PM they are ignoring is rude itself or the PM shows they didn't read trading request rules the user has up or perhaps they just forgot. Let's please not twist the purpose of this topic.

 

No one is required to answer a PM.

 

One gentle poke PM just in case the person simply forgot to reply should be fine. Any unsolicited PMs after that are harassment.

 

~

 

When PM'ing mods with harassment, please forward the PMs if possible. Otherwise, do include details so mods can better look into and address the situation.

As I said, a very polite pm. Of course everyone is at liberty to ignore a rude pm or any pm. In my case the person I was pm'ing stated in their profile 'Feel free to pm me if you want an offpring from my alt'.

 

I was not trying to twist the purpose of the thread I was answering 42's question, that pushing someone for a reply would likely be harassment, regardless of it being rude to not reply to a polite pm. At least I would have assumed that it would qualify as harassment.

 

Obviously I am wrong that pushing for a reply in any way would be harassment. Thank you for clarifying. Personally I would feel slightly put out by someone following up a pm by sending another pm reminding me that I hadn't replied to their first pm, to me that would be pushy, rude and slightly harassing, but that is just me.

Edited February 18, 2013 by Dubious

[dragongrrl]

While it may be rude to not answer somebody, perhaps the PM they are ignoring is rude itself or the PM shows they didn't read trading request rules the user has up or perhaps they just forgot. Let's please not twist the purpose of this topic.

 

No one is required to answer a PM.

 

One gentle poke PM just in case the person simply forgot to reply should be fine. Any unsolicited PMs after that are harassment.

Thank you for this, Sock!

 

Thinking back, I have been insulted once in a PM, but I was taught as a child that no response is the best response. Rudeness does not deserve an answer, and the matter ends there.

[Leidarendi]

As the owner of Patxaran, I certainly get persistent requesters, but the only time I've had to report/block someone was with regards to a very angry young person wanting trios and hellfires.

[Fuzzbucket]

While it may be rude to not answer somebody, perhaps the PM they are ignoring is rude itself or the PM shows they didn't read trading request rules the user has up or perhaps they just forgot. Let's please not twist the purpose of this topic.

 

No one is required to answer a PM.

 

One gentle poke PM just in case the person simply forgot to reply should be fine. Any unsolicited PMs after that are harassment.

 

~

 

When PM'ing mods with harassment, please forward the PMs if possible. Otherwise, do include details so mods can better look into and address the situation.

Thanks for the thread, _Z_, and sock for this post.

 

I wouldn't mind a second POLITE PM, as I do occasionally accidentally delete and so on, and I do answer first requests or I intend to, even when they are plain rude ("I want a dragon from your thunder, as soon as possible." That kind of PM I only accept from oddsoxdi !!)

 

But on the occasions I have been poked repeatedly and rudely, I simply block that user. Only one once followed it up with emails asking why I hadn't bred them the dragons they asked for (I think he even said "told you to" ) Whatever his age, he cannot have failed to grasp that I had said no - and I know that several others blocked him at the same time as I did.

 

So, sadly, I think this thread is needed, so that we can point the offenders here when we report them.

 

@ ZzelaBusya - I don't care if it does put that kind of person off trying to trade, and I truly don't think it will put nice, civilised players off at all.

[skauble]

You have already banned IOUs from the official trades and let us have them only in our signatures and via PM. And now you're touching *private* messages even concerning such simple things as trades.

Actually, this has been a rule here and part of the ToS for a long time:

 

Interactions with other users

 

All interactions with other users must be willful.

 

So if someone says no to something but the player refuses to accept that keeps PMing them to be pushy or beg, or someone writes in their sig or profile not to contact them but they're getting contacted in spite of that, that is not willful on the part of the person being contacted.

 

And, on the bright side, trading has managed to flourish and grow despite this rule...or perhaps because of it. I knew some people, back in the earlier days, that didn't want to get into trading because they didn't want to open the door to possible negativity in what was their method of relaxation. This rule and the addition of trading without contact convinced some to join in the activity.

 

But it's always good to have the reminder, especially when things like event dragons come out.

[Starscream]

All contact must be willful. As ZzelaBusya brings up that its private messages, it only remains private until such times as someone decides it has gone beyond what is considered acceptable contact. If private messages are deamed unwanted or harassing, then staff will have to deal with it. Just because the message is private from general public viewing, it does not mean you can treat a user with disrespect It will get back to staff in one way or another.

 

Generally speaking, I doubt this notice will affect anyone's mode of play other than those who cross the line in regard to private messages or sending out unwanted unsolicited trades or breeding requests.

 

It just reconfirms the rights of the scroll owner and what they can do if they are faced with such an issue. Most people who feel the need to pm someone about a breeding likely will accept a no graciously and end of that. Its only those who do not accept a no who may encounter problems.

 

People have been more than fair with their dragons and those who are not breeding, trading, gifting dragons, that's their right too.

[VulcanusTrade]

Woah.. this is freaky. Good thing this hasn't happened to me. May justice be served.

[Kaini]

With the shimmers especially, I sort of saw this coming :c which is why I never had the courage to PM any of the winners... I eventually did politely PM one, and was equally politely turned down, and I never said another word...as it should be. It's a little sad this had to be SAID for people not to harass others, but hopefully this will clear up now and we can go back to being a happy community. For the most part x3

[StormWizard212]

I didn't realise that this was happening so much to people and I'm really sad to hear it! Having been in a similar position myself on another forum, I'd really urge everyone experiencing any harassment to go to the mods immediately. DC is meant to be a fun, friendly and safe place. If you're not feeling that way, then there's a problem and there are people here who can help you deal with it. <3

 

Hopefully with this announcement being posted, it will discourage people who mightn't have realised their behaviour was deemed as 'harassment' to stop what they're doing, and for people who have experienced it to come forward and seek help from the mods.

[Mysthunter]

huh..I am assuming that people have been sent warnings.