Lineage restoration of dragons with dead ancestors

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Hm, not supporting. I like my dead lineages and like not to see/open the lineages of the dead ones.

But in my suggestion you COULD keep seeing your deadlines like that. With PF's suggestion you could, too! e____e

[Obscure_Trash]

OK, I has idea... but forgive if the lights be a bit dim.

 

I totally agree that it a shame that perfectly good and/or divine lineages can be ruined.

 

So..... what if TJ could code in a 'locking' mechanism, applied by the owner of a draggie, that disables the kill function - guaranteeing that said draggie could never be killed?

Subsequent breeders would disable their kill button and so on... creating a line that was unkillable.

 

Such lines would be more valued in trading than the risky ones that may end up with a deadline some time in the future.

 

The 'kill disabled' might be noted by a symbol next to the gender one (or other) so that a breeder checking their intended aquisitition could check through the lineage and see if each was 'guaranteed'

 

Worst case senario would be that the dragon could end up nameless in the wilderness.

 

I have no idea how coding works but TJ said once that nothing was impossible lol

Actually, I really like this as a compromise. Allows you to make whatever line you want being able to see which dragon has a guarantee that dragons won't be killed while at the same time not changing how dead dragons are displayed in lineages. o3o

[Draikinator]

Oh my. I can't decide whether or not I like the 'show full ancestry' idea or 'remove kill action' idea better. The latter would NEED to have some sort of mark or something so that people who didn't own the dragon could see that it had ts kill option disabled.

I think I would actually LOVE the second one if you could disable the kill action on an egg, so that if you were gifting or aping an egg you could garuntee it wouldn't be used as zombie fodder or just killed. Earthquake and sickness and time limit would all work the same, you just couldn't stab the poor babies.

[tridymite]

But in my suggestion you COULD keep seeing your deadlines like that. With PF's suggestion you could, too! e____e

No, even with a pop up option, dont want that others can see it too.

 

They are dead for a reason, so why check??

 

(But i am ok with a different tombstone!)

 

 

 

But i like the 'never will be killed' option/sign.

 

When i intend to kill off dragons they get such names: like 'will be dead' or 'will be killed'...

[Moonfirelife]

I don't agree with either. What you have on your scroll should be under your control at all times. If the person chooses to use an egg from the AP that wasn't breed from them it isn't the breeders fault when they choose to kill the parent(s).

 

Taking away the kill option from a dragon is wrong too if it isn't on your scroll...and what about the person just making the dragon kill able again?

Edited January 23, 2013 by Moonfirelife

[Shamiir]

Draikinator, we couldn't apply the 'no kill' action to eggs or hatchies - once they leave our scroll we have no say, they belong to someone else.

It could only be used on adults, by their owners.

 

Moonfirelife, I think that answers you problem too?

And if the owner uses this option on their own adult, it would then be irreversible.

 

 

 

A symbol or mark of some sort denoting 'immortality' would have to appear on the dragons page along with its stats...

Could it be included as an addition to its name?

(Just thinking of how it might be made to appear in the lineage page for ease of researching)

 

I really can't see how this wouldn't be win/win, the only drawback being that we couldn't backdate it to resurrect those lines already gone.

[Banuk]

I'm all for anything that would let me see past deadlines if I wanted to. I don't trade for them personally (mostly because I don't trust them at all), but I do think trying to pass off a 20th gen. inbred tinsel as a 2nd gen. is lying. And sad.

 

In the end, I guess it all comes down, once again, to who has the right to not have their playstyle limited here, given the discussion I've been seeing. Limit those who kill their dragons, or continue limiting the people who have their offspring.

 

Though, if I do recall correctly, I did hear TJ say once that he wasn't too fond of deadlines, so maybe something will come of the discussion this time.

Edited January 23, 2013 by Derranged

[Fuzzbucket]

I love deadlines. I could JUST live with PF's idea.

 

Ooooooh!

 

I has idea!!!

 

Each dragon with one or more deceased dragons in its lineage has an action: "Show full ancestry" [or better name].  It lets the owner of the dragon set the dragon to show its lineage as if the dead dragon(s) were alive.  No deadlines ruining unless the owner of the deadline dragon WANTS it "ruined".  It does not affect how any other dragon is viewed, even its children would automatically show the dead as usual.

 

I think there would have to be something marking the dead dragon(s), but it seems like the best of both worlds.

But if I create a deadline, I want that line of tombstones (don't anyone panic; I would only be using dragons on MY scroll !!!)

 

And what's the point of an OWNER putting a no kill on their dragon ? Don't we trust people not to do that if they say they won't ?

 

I'm agin this.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

In the end, I guess it all comes down, once again, to who has the right to not have their playstyle limited here, given the discussion I've been seeing. Limit those who kill their dragons, or continue limiting the people who have their offspring.

I think PF's suggestion doesn't limit anyone, as people who want to see a full lineage on specific dragons they own can, without affecting any dragons where they DO want to see deadlines.

 

I still believe my suggestion was fine too, though. As I've said before and again, if someone ALREADY doesn't trust deadlines, then they're not going to like them any less if they can confirm their fears about the deadline. What does it matter if someone isn't seeing your deadline the way you see it? If they choose to have the full lineage view option turned on, then chances are they wouldn't find your deadline pretty even if they were seeing it with the option turned off (which would make the deadline look exactly as it does now)--because if they liked the look of deadlines, they'd never have turned the option on in the first place, now would they? Being able to change how you view lineage is NOT hampering anyone's playstyles--everyone gets to see things how they want to see them. Seems more then fair to me. Guh.

 

The 'set my dragon to never be killable by myself, and show other people this' idea is ok, but I feel like it'd lead to people pestering whoever they were trading with to 'seal the deal' by going through with it--and if the other person wouldn't do so, then they'd probably start having less people want to trade with them because there'd be a trust issue that didn't exist before (ex: "If you swear you're not going to kill it, why won't you just choose the option?" whereas right now we have to go on their word alone). Whereas just changing how you view lineages wouldn't lead to anyone else getting harassed, because you see what you want to see and wouldn't have to give a hoot about what the other person does with their dragons.

Edited January 23, 2013 by angelicdragonpuppy

[Fuzzbucket]

Thing is I don't create deadlines to hide anything; I do them for FUN. Absolutely never to deceive. I've been given dragons with OK LOOKING lineages but with tombstones in a few slots at the base. They look nice. Sure, unless someone asked, I would not be breeding them for others - but I don't want their pasts showing up anywhere. They are who they now are.

 

An aside for you. My daughter recently disowned my mother. (A fate my mother RICHLY deserved, by the way; I support my daughter absolutely !) I think my daughter should have the absolute right to expunge my mother from her lineage if she likes. A chunk of her heritage she never wants to see in there again. If she could - why should others be able to see my mother in there ?

[Thuban]

Option: Have the tombstone view page retain the information about the breed. Something simple like:

Unfortunately, your dragon has died/been killed. It was a (breedname).

 

 

While i would like to know the breeds of dragons that were sacrificed or have died, i dont need to know what its lineage was before that point. Having the option to have a /faded out/ image of the dead dragon in lineages would be nice.. but, i dont think its something that /should/ be optional. People do work really hard to make their dead lines pretty. and it would be a shame to throw well thought out lineages to the side (to show dead dragons lineage). Lineages should stop at the dead dragon, like always, but adding a faded version of the sprites could be useful. For example i have a 5th gen pure summer even gen.. one of the cbs was sacrificed by its owner as zombie fodder. I have no way to prove it was a cb summer, but having a faded summer there would help.

 

 

It helps that I view deadlines like I do stray pets. Pet gets judged on how it is, and not what the parents may have been. It doesnt matter as much with strays

[Fuzzbucket]

Option: Have the tombstone view page retain the information about the breed. Something simple like:

Unfortunately, your dragon has died/been killed. It was a (breedname).

 

 

While i would like to know the breeds of dragons that were sacrificed or have died, i dont need to know what its lineage was before that point. Having the option to have a /faded out/ image of the dead dragon in lineages would be nice.. but, i dont think its something that /should/ be optional. People do work really hard to make their dead lines pretty. and it would be a shame to throw well thought out lineages to the side (to show dead dragons lineage). Lineages should stop at the dead dragon, like always, but adding a faded version of the sprites could be useful. For example i have a 5th gen pure summer even gen.. one of the cbs was sacrificed by its owner as zombie fodder. I have no way to prove it was a cb summer, but having a faded summer there would help.

 

 

It helps that I view deadlines like I do stray pets. Pet gets judged on how it is, and not what the parents may have been. It doesnt matter as much with strays

Yeah - it would be nice if a tombstone said "I was a guardian" as its inscription. Even a "faded photo" of the deadie. But no further..

[ThatDeadGirl]

But in my suggestion you COULD keep seeing your deadlines like that. With PF's suggestion you could, too! e____e

But it's not really fair to those of us who put a lot of time and effort into our deadline lineages either. I don't want other people to see the messy crud. I want people to see (what I perceive as) a beautiful lineage that took a lot of time and hard work. That's why I personally own every generation of my deadlines, to ensure there is never a disturbance to the live dragons. Don't punish people for doing what they want to with their dragons. It's well with the rules of DC. And don't punish people because you built a lineage on dragons that weren't under your control.

[purpledragonclaw]

Thuban, I like your "faded out" image idea. That way at least we could see what species the killed dragon was, but it's noted in a way that shows it's dead without being a tombstone.

 

Trying to have my cake and eat it too, what if we had a setting on our scroll for viewing lineages that incorporates these different ideas, just like we have multiple ways to sort our scrolls? We could have a lineage section that gives us the option to view dead dragons as tombstones, faded out images, tombstone view pages with species information, or full images with a mark next to them to show they died (trying to incorporate all ideas into this). I don't know how much load that would put on the server or how much coding is required, but people do like their lineages to look certain ways and this could accommodate multiple play styles.

[Shamiir]

No to fade-out out from here - or naming the dragon breed.

This could at times mean losing another generation as it may be an undesired breed that has been killed to remove it from the lineage.

 

To illustrate:

http://dragcave.net/lineage/bRMGb

 

In this lineage, one would be left with the image of the unwanted black dragons used to breed the tinsels/alts. There would be no point at all to killing that gen, it would have to be resolved by killing what is now the 1st living gen.

It would be equally unaesthetic to have the breed listed there.

Edited January 23, 2013 by Shamiir

[TheGrox]

I actually quite like the idea of Shamiirs, as a compromise which wouldn't change the current kill system too much. Disabling the killing of a certain dragon on your own scroll would verify to future owners of its descendants that it won't ever be killed. I assume you could still abandon them to the wilderness, if you didn't want the dragon anymore, but you couldn't kill it.

 

It could be denoted on a dragon's page by a simple little symbol (possibly next to the dragon's name or gender? Or it could be a little line of text like "The owner has pledged never to kill this dragon."

[_Charky]

Option: Have the tombstone view page retain the information about the breed. Something simple like:

Unfortunately, your dragon has died/been killed. It was a (breedname).

 

 

While i would like to know the breeds of dragons that were sacrificed or have died, i dont need to know what its lineage was before that point. Having the option to have a /faded out/ image of the dead dragon in lineages would be nice.. but, i dont think its something that /should/ be optional. People do work really hard to make their dead lines pretty. and it would be a shame to throw well thought out lineages to the side (to show dead dragons lineage). Lineages should stop at the dead dragon, like always, but adding a faded version of the sprites could be useful. For example i have a 5th gen pure summer even gen.. one of the cbs was sacrificed by its owner as zombie fodder. I have no way to prove it was a cb summer, but having a faded summer there would help.

 

 

It helps that I view deadlines like I do stray pets. Pet gets judged on how it is, and not what the parents may have been. It doesnt matter as much with strays

+1 post of supporting

 

 

I made a deadline tinsel, not because I wanted to fool people, but because I wanted to purge the messy lineages from my scroll without losing many tinsels. I do breed eggs to the AP occasionally, but not try to trade them away. I Certainly don't mind people knowing the parents were tinsels.

Edited January 23, 2013 by dracocharky

[Fuzzbucket]

No to fade-out out from here - or naming the dragon breed.

This could at times mean losing another generation as it may be an undesired breed that has been killed to remove it from the lineage.

 

To illustrate:

http://dragcave.net/lineage/bRMGb

 

In this lineage, one would be left with the image of the unwanted black dragons used to breed the tinsels/alts. There would be no point at all to killing that gen, it would have to be resolved by killing what is now the 1st living gen.

It would be equally unaesthetic to have the breed listed there.

Good point.

 

I did not support before and now I even more don't

[Tawanda001]

But it's not really fair to those of us who put a lot of time and effort into our deadline lineages either. I don't want other people to see the messy crud. I want people to see (what I perceive as) a beautiful lineage that took a lot of time and hard work.

Even when I see a 'pretty' deadline I still see it as messy, because I know that the lineage was trimmed to get rid of all that. So I don't think that saying "no you're not allowed to see what it looked like before I trimmed it" will really change the way I view it.

I don't think that not allowing people to know what it looked like before it got deadlined will change anyones opinion as to whether or not they like it.

[TheGrox]

Surely showing the previous lineage of someone's deadline lineage that they've worked long and hard in would ruin all their hard work. And it would discourage people from making deadlines at all, which isn't necessarily a good thing. I actually quite like them.

 

And they get rid of unwanted messy and inbred dragons, too.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Surely showing the previous lineage of someone's deadline lineage that they've worked long and hard in would ruin all their hard work. And it would discourage people from making deadlines at all, which isn't necessarily a good thing. I actually quite like them.

 

And they get rid of unwanted messy and inbred dragons, too.

But again, if people WANT to see it, they CAN see it. Demanding they look at it a certain way when they'd rather see the truth behind your lineage is like an artist grabbing someone's face and smushing it against their canvas until they see its 'true beauty.' It's not very nice. If people want to look at your deadline as a deadline, they would be able to. However, it's not really fair to force them to only look at it your way.

 

Personally I don't like the look of deadlines; I'd much rather be able to see the truth of the lineage. You shouldn't be able to smack me and insist I can only look at it your way.

Edited January 23, 2013 by angelicdragonpuppy

[Thuban]

Well.. I dont want to see dead dragons lineages, period. I kind of missed them when they first stopped showing up, but now.. the only times it ever seems to be a problem is when people want to confirm the Thuwed/Dorkface decendants are true.Deadlines are not attractive to me, enough for me to do them, but every now and then i see a nicely laid out one that looks good.

 

Yes, having faded images /could/ ruin the pretty you are aiming for, however, in the end it doesnt matter, because that specific dragon is dead anyhow. If there is to be an option here.. it should show only to you.. not control how others see it. I would much rather see faded images then dead line lineages if i had to make a choice

 

Re-reading the first post though, this is about keeping the images in the lineage as an optional thing. I think the fading it out option is perfectly logical here as well as having it be a personal viewing choice, rather than forced. People would learn to not care what the breed was when the image was faded, and it could lead to some interesting stairs. red/green with alternating "faded" dragons showing up could be kinda cool. more attractive than tombstones. Theres potential for new pretty lineages to be made with deadlines.. even if there is a chance it will ruin already existing ones.

 

[Banuk]

But again, if people WANT to see it, they CAN see it. Demanding they look at it a certain way when they'd rather see the truth behind your lineage is like an artist grabbing someone's face and smushing it against their canvas until they see its 'true beauty.' It's not very nice. If people want to look at your deadline as a deadline, they would be able to. However, it's not really fair to force them to only look at it your way.

Yes. This sums up my feelings on the matter.

 

You can't force people to see beauty, no matter how beautiful you think something is.

 

One person might look at a deadline and see something magnificent, and others will look at it and see something hideous.

 

Some would rather have beauty over truth. Others, truth over beauty. Neither is right, and neither is wrong, but you can't dictate how people should feel when they see something.

Edited January 23, 2013 by Derranged

[Fuzzbucket]

But again, if people WANT to see it, they CAN see it. Demanding they look at it a certain way when they'd rather see the truth behind your lineage is like an artist grabbing someone's face and smushing it against their canvas until they see its 'true beauty.' It's not very nice. If people want to look at your deadline as a deadline, they would be able to. However, it's not really fair to force them to only look at it your way.

MY lineage is viewed MY way. MY design. (Do we all HAVE to see all Michelangelo's underpaintings in the Sistine Chapel ? Since you bring up Art !)

 

You no want - you no need to have eggy from it. Simples.

 

(Seriously - if you don't LIKE deadend lineages - don't accept them. If you get and keep one - you treat it and see it for what it is - a carefully designed - DEAD END LINEAGE !)

 

I can KIND of see the issue with people who have a lineage in which someone else killed something later - but as the Holy Socky said once, many moons ago, if you want to be CERTAIN sure, make lineages exclusively from YOUR scroll, and then release any ones you don't want to hang on to - they will be wild and keep that lineage.

 

If you want to be NEARLY sure, only include dragons from the scrolls of people you ABSOLUTELY trust (I have a few of those. So far their owners have not let me down, though a few have lost their names...)

 

edited multiple times for multiple typefails. I need food...

Edited January 23, 2013 by fuzzbucket

[Sir Barton]

Even when I see a 'pretty' deadline I still see it as messy, because I know that the lineage was trimmed to get rid of all that. So I don't think that saying "no you're not allowed to see what it looked like before I trimmed it" will really change the way I view it.

I don't think that not allowing people to know what it looked like before it got deadlined will change anyones opinion as to whether or not they like it.

That's my thought when I see a deadline as well. I hate them and view them as worthless. Being able to see past the tombstone might make a deadline more interesting to me...and I'm not even someone who is bothered by inbreeding. I just really rather an honest representation of what I'm looking at.

 

So far, I like PF's idea best.