Posted January 18, 2013 I was doing my R.S (religious studies) homework the other day on euthanasia and I wanted to find out about what your opinion on this was. Euthanasia is defined as, "The termination of a very sick person's life in order to relieve them of their suffering." There are three different types of euthanasia, voluntary, non-voluntary and involuntary. Voluntary euthanasia is legal in some countries (such as Belgium, Luxembourg and the Netherlands) and U.S. states. Non-voluntary euthanasia is illegal in all countries (except in the Netherlands where it is allowed under certain situations). Involuntary euthanasia is usually considered murder due to concent not being given or it being against the will of somebody. Voluntary euthanasia is conducted with the consent of the patient, but if you need an assistance of a physician, the term assisted suicide is often used instead. Assisted suicide is often under different rules than voluntary euthanasia and is legal in different countries too. Non-voluntary euthanasia is conducted where the consent of the patient is unavailable such as if they are a child or cannot mentally comprehend euthanasia. Is euthanasia legal in your country? What are your opinions on euthanasia? Do you think any type of euthanasia should be legal? Is euthanasia ever right? ------------------ Personally I think voluntary euthanasia should be made legal, although it would have to be highly regulated (I come from the UK). If people are in pain or just don't want to live anymore because of the degraded quality of life then they should be allowed to end it. Share this post Link to post
Posted January 18, 2013 (edited) According to the NHS (British ) it's only legal in Belgium, Holland and Luxembourg. However, euthanasia is only legal: - if that person has made an active and voluntary request to end their life, and - it is thought they have sufficient mental capacity to make an informed decision regarding their care, and - it is agreed that the person is suffering unbearably and there is no prospect for an improvement in their condition I hate to research too much into this (and any suicide/death, really) so I'll just put my opinion on it. If the person is suffering a great deal and they want to end their life, it is their decision. No one should stop them - it's their life and they can do whatever they want with it. All we can do is have opinions on it, really. Yes, we can speak to them and all that, but really, if they're determined to end their life, then they should be able to. I don't really know all the 'restrictions' and 'limits' they have for euthanasia though. Edited January 18, 2013 by cfmtfm Share this post Link to post
Posted January 18, 2013 I have really mixed feelings about this. I have a firm belief that as long as you're still alive, there's hope. Even if you have a terrible, horrible disease--if you're still here, there's a chance that there'll be a miracle, a breakthrough, a chance for things to turn around. Whereas if you're dead, well... That being said, if /I/ was dying of ALS or something, I'd want it to just be over with once it got to the severe stages. However, while I'm conflicted about it for people who are in severe and terminal pain, I am firmly against it for people who simply don't feel like living any more. As someone who's suffered from severe depression and anxiety--and gotten through it--I KNOW that those people can be helped and go on to be happy once again. Share this post Link to post
Posted January 18, 2013 I am very very very much in favour of voluntary euthanasia. I have filed an advance directive to make as sure as I can that no-one can ever revive me against my will, and my family is aware that if they are EVER asked if it's time to pull the plug and they don't say "YES" they will be very very sorry indeed. Even if it means I have to haunt them for the Beyond. I believe that we have the ABSOLUTE right to die at the time of our choosing. the other two - it entirely depends on the situation. If I were comatose and my family had feeding withdrawn, I would NOT agree that that was murder in any sense, for instance. Absolutely there are many cases where euthanasia is "right" and many many cases where refusing it is profoundly WRONG. (google Diane Pretty for a classic case.) Share this post Link to post
Posted January 18, 2013 We have the humanity to euthanize our sick and slowly dying pets when their quality of life is degrading. We should have the humanity to do it for ourselves, too. Especially seeing as how, unlike a dog or cat, a human can desire it and tell you so. Share this post Link to post
Posted January 18, 2013 (edited) I'm against non-voluntary, unless there's absolutely no way to prevent a horrible, horrible death. But that's hard to determine, so... As for voluntary... I think it should be allowed. If a person IS dying, be it from illness or simply age, and they're suffering... Wouldn't it be best to allow them to end it on their terms, in a place they can be comfortable at the end, before the suffering becomes too great? Wouldn't it be a mercy to allow them to escape their pain, if they're already dying? I mean, we put down pets, and they don't really understand the idea. Why should a human who understands it and desires it be refused to allow their pain to end? Edited January 18, 2013 by KageSora Share this post Link to post
Posted January 18, 2013 I mean, we put down pets, and they don't really understand the idea. Why should a human who understands it and desires it be refused to allow their pain to end? This, pretty much. If a person is suffering something incurable and every day is agony, they should have a right to end things. As long as they're mentally stable enough to make a decision such as this. If a person gives their consent, I say do it. However, there are certain cases that I would also support euthanasia, even if the individual didn't have the ability to consent to it. For example, someone posted a link to a video about a baby that was born without crucial parts to its brain. Therefore, it lacked the capability to retain memory, was blind/deaf and unconscious. (I think it was in the abortion topic, I'd have to look). That's no way to live life, I'd have agreed to euthanasia if I were the parent. I am very very very much in favour of voluntary euthanasia. I have filed an advance directive to make as sure as I can that no-one can ever revive me against my will, and my family is aware that if they are EVER asked if it's time to pull the plug and they don't say "YES" they will be very very sorry indeed. Even if it means I have to haunt them for the Beyond. I like the way you think. Share this post Link to post
Posted January 18, 2013 We have the humanity to euthanize our sick and slowly dying pets when their quality of life is degrading. We should have the humanity to do it for ourselves, too. Especially seeing as how, unlike a dog or cat, a human can desire it and tell you so. ^ This. I've had cats & dogs put to sleep because there was no longer any hope of anything but a slow and painful death. I, and most others, consider it a kindness to allow them a quiet end rather than a descent into suffering. I hope to God that if that time came for me that I would be offered the same courtesy. Why should we force people who are capable of making their own rational decisions to live out their remaining time in pain and suffering? Allowing someone that is terminally ill to choose a dignified death seems like the only decent thing to do. For the record I, also, am from the UK. So I doubt you need me to fill you in on the legality here Share this post Link to post
Posted January 18, 2013 I support voluntary AND non-voluntary. We have non-voluntary for our animals, it's a very similar situation. I feel like non-voluntary should be legal in cases where the patient is unable to give consent for whatever reason and thus leaves their medical decisions to their next of kin, whom I would trust could make that decision based on their relationship with the patient. There was a case someone pointed out on the abortion thread where a young boy was born but he had extremely little brain activity and was kept alive solely on machines. I think in that case, euthanasia options are extremely important, and as a parent I wouldn't have let that continue. Or if I was a parent or guardian of someone who had a terminal illness and had grown so sick beyond possible treatment, I believe it is the right thing to do. There's a line between living and alive. I believe it is cruel and immortal to keep someone, human or animal, alive when they're suffering at a point in their life when treatment options are slim-to-none or non-feasible, or would only prolong the current state of suffering. At that point I don't believe it is murder. Share this post Link to post
Posted January 18, 2013 However, while I'm conflicted about it for people who are in severe and terminal pain, I am firmly against it for people who simply don't feel like living any more. As someone who's suffered from severe depression and anxiety--and gotten through it--I KNOW that those people can be helped and go on to be happy once again. You cannot say that; you cannot know that. Even the trained mental health professional in our family would disagree with you there. There CAN be depression that is unremitting and which will not respond. It is not down to ANYONE to say that someone that unhappy should not be allowed to die. For the record I have a life long history of major depressions and have both attempted suicide (in case you hadn't noticed, I failed... ) and been hospitalised. I do know whereof I speak. I STILL believe that - VERY strongly. It is far far more than "not feeling like living any more". Some people can never be happy. No matter WHAT help they get. This will sound weird - but if I had succeeded in killing myself, I wouldn't regret it. Share this post Link to post
Posted January 19, 2013 Depends on the situation I would have to agree with this. Share this post Link to post
Posted January 19, 2013 (edited) If it is something terminal (or the person is already very old) and the person oneself has asked for it, then I'm fully for it. If the person has reached a state wherein there is a near-zero or no possibility of them ever reaching a properly conscious state, I am likewise for it. However, if there is still a chance of recovery, and considerable chance that the person will regain (or retain) full consciousness and some quality of life, I am not for it. I know people who have pleaded for their deaths when they are feeling physically terrible and hopeless, but then recovered and been happy with their lives from then on. - The ability to make unbiased decisions is often enough simply too deeply thwarted for a severely ill or injured person for there to be any certainty that they themselves will not make a severe mistake in determining their fates. If there is a chance, there is a chance. However, note again that I do not support the keeping alive against their wishes of people who are certain to die without making a recovery, or 'maintaining' those who will not regain proper consciousness. I feel like non-voluntary should be legal in cases where the patient is unable to give consent for whatever reason and thus leaves their medical decisions to their next of kin, whom I would trust could make that decision based on their relationship with the patient. I would not trust my family with my medical decisions. At all. If it were possible, I'd sign a contract leaving those kinds of decisions - should it ever become necessary - for literally any good friend of mine. Edited January 19, 2013 by Shienvien Share this post Link to post
Posted January 19, 2013 You cannot say that; you cannot know that. Even the trained mental health professional in our family would disagree with you there. There CAN be depression that is unremitting and which will not respond. It is not down to ANYONE to say that someone that unhappy should not be allowed to die. For the record I have a life long history of major depressions and have both attempted suicide (in case you hadn't noticed, I failed... ) and been hospitalised. I do know whereof I speak. I STILL believe that - VERY strongly. It is far far more than "not feeling like living any more". Some people can never be happy. No matter WHAT help they get. This will sound weird - but if I had succeeded in killing myself, I wouldn't regret it. I agree with this post so much. Share this post Link to post
Posted January 19, 2013 (edited) If it is something terminal (or the person is already very old) and the person oneself has asked for it, then I'm fully for it. If the person has reached a state wherein there is a near-zero or no possibility of them ever reaching a properly conscious state, I am likewise for it. However, if there is still a chance of recovery, and considerable chance that the person will regain (or retain) full consciousness and some quality of life, I am not for it. I know people who have pleaded for their deaths when they are feeling physically terrible and hopeless, but then recovered and been happy with their lives from then on. - The ability to make unbiased decisions is often enough simply too deeply thwarted for a severely ill or injured person for there to be any certainty that they themselves will not make a severe mistake in determining their fates. If there is a chance, there is a chance. However, note again that I do not support the keeping alive against their wishes of people who are certain to die without making a recovery, or 'maintaining' those who will not regain proper consciousness. I would not trust my family with my medical decisions. At all. If it were possible, I'd sign a contract leaving those kinds of decisions - should it ever become necessary - for literally any good friend of mine. Of what is there a "chance" ? If someone decides their own life is not worth living and has been told that there is a "chance" they will recover - and they don't want to go for that chance - who is anyone to say they have to ? This one gets steadily worse now that people use "well, in a few years there may be a cure for xyz". And there may not. And anyway maybe I don't want to wait and see, thank you very much. I say again - and this includes non-assisted suicide. If someone wants to die NOW - that is their absolute right. And if they need help with that - they should have the right to get it. And no I an not saying that a doctor who cannot in conscience bring himself to help should be forced to - but the law should NOT stop him doing so. It is really patronising to assume that just because someone is very, very ill and in pain, they can't make their own decisions. Also to pull the "they were glad afterwards." How would you (generic) have felt if they were livid and never forgave the people who saved their lives, and just went on to kill themselves later, while they were NOT that ill ? I trust my family with my medical decisions. Luckily they will bump me off. More power to them ! But not wishing to says more about you and your relationship with your family than about what you want to happen to you when you are potentially dying... Edited for rather exotic typo.... Edited January 19, 2013 by fuzzbucket Share this post Link to post
Posted January 19, 2013 (edited) How would you have felt if they were livid and never forgave the people who saved their lives, and just went on to kill themselves later, while they were NOT that ill? I would know that I tried. I would be at relative ease with the knowledge that I tried and did not succeed, as opposed to the knowledge that I just let a person die without moving a finger when they might have just been suffering from a temporary low. Death is final. When an individual dies, that person is permanently destroyed. I knew an individual about whom I suspected he might try to commit suicide, but didn't actively involve myself, and I'm in a semi-constant deep pain from that, many years later, despite him being just a colleague's best friend to me. The weight of that on the said colleague is no lighter - he couldn't even sleep properly months after that. His (the person's who committed suicide) mother had no other children, too, and since her husband is long dead, she's now completely alone. But not wishing to says more about you and your relationship with your family... I love my mother, but some of her understandings are simply very bizarre... Edited January 19, 2013 by Shienvien Share this post Link to post
Posted January 19, 2013 As a nurse, while I would support someone in palliative care or the LCP, I would never support someone actively seeking euthanasia as it goes against my professional beliefs. Share this post Link to post
Posted January 19, 2013 (edited) I would know that I tried. I would be at relative ease with the knowledge that I tried and did not succeed, as opposed to the knowledge that I just let a person die without moving a finger when they might have just been suffering from a temporary low. Death is final. When an individual dies, that person is permanently destroyed. I knew an individual about whom I suspected he might try to commit suicide, but didn't actively involve myself, and I'm in a semi-constant deep pain from that, many years later, despite him being just a colleague's best friend to me. The weight of that on the said colleague is no lighter - he couldn't even sleep properly months after that. His (the person's who committed suicide) mother had no other children, too, and since her husband is long dead, she's now completely alone. I love my mother, but some of her understandings are simply very bizarre... But you would have tried to do the exact opposite of what they wanted. Just as (it seems) your mother would for you. How is that OK ? Sure death is final. But who are you to discern whether someone is in a "temporary low" ? If they really want it and are physically incapable - I would believe them when they said what they wanted - and if I could - I would help them. *fuzz now watches as she is arrested in connection with every death of a very ill person in her neck of the woods for the next 30 years * Kestra - that is absolutely your right too, and I would never want you forced into anything. But I hope if I came to you, you would be prepared to introduce me to someone who would help me, if I asked ? Edited January 19, 2013 by fuzzbucket Share this post Link to post
Posted January 19, 2013 But you would have tried to do the exact opposite of what they wanted. How is that OK? People do not always want the right things, nor are their opinions on the matter always stable. There are people who are glad they did not succeed at committing suicide, or that they never properly tried, too. I know cases like that. Should I not have convinced them not to end their lives? Truly? Should I have just sat there and watched my friends die? People who are still around me every day as we speak, laughing and talking and ... well, being living people, and at near-perfect health for the most part, too? But who are you to discern whether someone is in a "temporary low"?I will never know unless I make a single attempt to help them through. Share this post Link to post
Posted January 19, 2013 Kestra - that is absolutely your right too, and I would never want you forced into anything. But I hope if I came to you, you would be prepared to introduce me to someone who would help me, if I asked ? I would in no way tell you to see Nurse Jones, and in no way whatsoever recommend you speak to Doctor Smith about such things Share this post Link to post
Posted January 19, 2013 (edited) People do not always want the right things, nor are their opinions on the matter always stable. There are people who are glad they did not succeed at committing suicide, or that they never properly tried, too. I know cases like that. Should I not have convinced them not to end their lives? Truly? Should I have just sat there and watched my friends die? People who are still around me every day as we speak, laughing and talking and ... well, being living people, and at near-perfect health for the most part, too? I will never know unless I make a single attempt to help them through. Try and talk them down - sure, if you like. Yes, I probably would try and talk someone I cared about out of suicide if it were "just" a matter of depression, even to suggest they get medical advice and help and the rest. BUT I would NOT try actively to prevent. And if they seemed hell bent on it - I'd stop in the end.. And in the case of people who are very ill and/or in pain - no, I wouldn't intervene. I know people who are glad they failed at suicide (for the record, I am totally don't care one way or the other myself !) But that doesn't mean they didn't have the absolute right to succeed at the time. But in any event - who says what decisions are "right" for any other person ? Only the person making that decision can be even close to certain. I would in no way tell you to see Nurse Jones, and in no way whatsoever recommend you speak to Doctor Smith about such things Oh. Edited January 19, 2013 by fuzzbucket Share this post Link to post
Posted January 19, 2013 I would in no way tell you to see Nurse Jones, and in no way whatsoever recommend you speak to Doctor Smith about such things I'm guessing you absolutely would not suggest to Nurse Jones or Dr Smith that I, as a patient, may want to speak to them either Share this post Link to post
Posted January 19, 2013 My grandma has a patient's provision, it states that she would like pain medication even if it shortens her life, that she doesn't want any treatment other than that in case of a severe illness, that she does not want to be fed via a stomach tube, but that she wants liquids so that she doesn't essentially die of thirst, that she doesn't want to receive organ transplants and that no one should attempt to revive her if she dies. All that is legal in Germany and I find it in the case of an 83 year old woman, very sensible. I find the rest very difficult. I honestly don't know. Share this post Link to post
Posted January 19, 2013 I'm guessing you absolutely would not suggest to Nurse Jones or Dr Smith that I, as a patient, may want to speak to them either We must exchange mobile numbers ! But this whole debate always hinges on one person's rights over another's sensibilities. Where it comes to actually helping someone to die - yes, that's fair enough; I fully accept that some people cannot do that - for religious, ethical or even EEEEEWWW reasons. But legislation that prevents euthanasia (at least in the case of assisted suicide) is just wrong. And the idea of suicide actually being illegal is laughable. If I manage - what will you do - imprison my corpse ??? Share this post Link to post
Posted January 19, 2013 I'm guessing you absolutely would not suggest to Nurse Jones or Dr Smith that I, as a patient, may want to speak to them either Oh, I'm sure I'm allowed to tell Dr Smith that Patient McMurphy would like to speak to them, but I have no idea what it could be about. Share this post Link to post
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