Change the Holidays

[Draikinator]

Maybe since we're not allowed to have it on a solstice, we can instead create our own DC, amorphous "holiday". This way you can please everyone and avoid drama. (not very theoretical, is it?)

this!

solve many issues.

 

I'm an athiest, but I was raised Christian and I still like to celebrate Christmas. It's so commercialized these days anyway it's not a very religious holiday. But I feel like making it specifically a christmas dragon cave event is a little exclusive to others.

An in-cave holiday would solve this issue without delving into any new ones.

[Nectaris]

I will take a moment to say that if Christmas must change to something unrecognizable, Halloween must too, for I know plenty of people that refuse to celebrate Halloween. If Christmas is to be changed because people don't celebrate it, then so must Halloween.

[earthgirl]

Well, I personally hate Valentines Day with a passion. :roll: but I never said I had anything against getting a release or event on that day. In fact, it makes up for the lack of celebrating it IRL and I welcome it. And the cards sending is nice. At least I get something, even if not real, at least it's something. ^^ And it cheers me up.

[Nectaris]

Well, I personally hate Valentines Day with a passion. :roll: but I never said I had anything against getting a release or event on that day. In fact, it makes up for the lack of celebrating it IRL and I welcome it. And the cards sending is nice. At least I get something, even if not real, at least it's something. ^^ And it cheers me up.

Personally I agree, however, I think that if Christmas MUST be changed to avoid stepping on religious/not religious toes, then so must Halloween, for I know personally plenty of people who don't celebrate Halloween based on religion, rather than just personal dislike. Essentially if something must change to accommodate one group, it should be changed to accommodate all.

 

Just as a note, I would rather NONE of the holidays were changed.

Edited January 17, 2013 by Nectaris

[gistofeverything]

I will take a moment to say that if Christmas must change to something unrecognizable, Halloween must too, for I know plenty of people that refuse to celebrate Halloween. If Christmas is to be changed because people don't celebrate it, then so must Halloween.

Which is why I suggested their elimination and replacement with seasonal events. Because it's not just Christmas that makes sparks fly; it's all of them.

[Zaxian]

That said... Winter dragons released on the 21st (for the winter solstice) would mean no DC cutting into your Christmas Eve/Day plans.

I support the idea of moving the Christmas events slightly pre-Christmas, for exactly this reason.

 

I was also going to write a bit of a tl:dr response to the rest of it - but decided against it in the end. Suffice to say, I (as an atheist and somebody who is definitely not a fan of tradition for traditions' sake) see no real need to remove the mentions of 'the spirit of Christmas' in the Christmas dragon descriptions. However, nor do I object to releasing dragons with other colour schemes for the holiday release, or releasing dragons for other holidays/occasions/traditions.

[gistofeverything]

I'm pretty sure I consistently referred to it as the 2012 Holiday Event.

They're not Christmas events, no, but the releases are most definitely focused on Christmas. Amorphously naming it isn't the solution.

[Starbit]

As someone with their birthday on the Winter Solstice (!) I would LOVE a Solstice/Equinox event. Especially as this could be tied in with our lovely Seasonal dragons - perhaps they could bring us a new special egg every equinox/solstice?

 

I'm not religious, and I have no issue with Christmas dragons. The fact is Christmas is a very broad term and these days is barely religious at all for most people. There are Christmas celebrations that are completely non-christian - the Japanese adopted the idea of Santa Claus bringing presents to children and made it their own.

 

However I do see why it could cause drama (though it never has before). I would like to point out as I did before the Winter Solstice was celebrated long long before Christmas ever was, so it would definitely be medievally relevant. I also know of very few European cultures, both modern and ancient, that do not or did not celebrate some kind of winter celebration, like the Solstice or a Midwinter's Festival. This is because getting halfway through a very dark and tough season is a cause for celebration and to welcome in spring. Christmas is in winter because Christianity took the idea of a winter festival from events like the Solstice.

 

I would absolutely love a Winter Solstice or Midwinter's Day festival. I am a little tired of red/green/gold colour scheme and these holidays, especially Midwinter's Day, is offensive to absolutely no one and could include everyone while giving us lovely new dragon designs. We could, as someone else suggested, create our own DC Midwinter festival, to do with dragons. Lots of games have their own versions of Christmas and other holidays like this.

 

My first idea of the Seasonal dragons would also provide an alternative to easter and halloween (though I don't really see why we need to change Halloween...) and give us a summer event.

 

If any change was to be made though I would not want the current holiday dragons to be unable to breed their kind any longer. That is unfair.

 

 

[Fuzzbucket]

It ain't broke. Why "fix" it ? Seriously ?

[gistofeverything]

It ain't broke. Why "fix" it ? Seriously ?

The concept of commercialized holidays within an incorrect time frame is incorrect.

 

Incorrect=Broken.

 

This is a way to fix it.

[olympe]

Because it hurts some people's feelings. Not badly enough for them to quit, but enough to make them feel uncomfortable about the holiday events and/or dragons.

 

@TJ: Even though the event may have been called "winter holiday event" instead of Christmas event this year, the dragon descriptions of all "winter holiday event dragons" still call them Christmas dragons:

Christmas dragons are a very mysterious breed. They are only seen during winter, and even then it is hard to catch a glimpse of one. They are responsible for the general cheer that spreads during the holidays. In essence, they are the “Spirits of Christmas.”

[Sir Barton]

Because it hurts some people's feelings. Not badly enough for them to quit, but enough to make them feel uncomfortable about the holiday events and/or dragons.

 

Which proves just how pitiful we have become thanks to political correctness.

[Isuzu]

I don't really see the point in changing anything.

The 3 DC holidays are pretty much the most famous and most commercial ones out there, with hardly any religious themes used.

There are countries that celebrate Christmas just for the fun of it.

Also, where I live Halloween and Valentine's day aren't celebrated (though we do have something similar to V-day, but not in February). They just were introduced a few years ago as a marketing strategy more than anything, yet I've always looked forward to them on DC.

[Banuk]

Which proves just how pitiful we have become thanks to political correctness.

So...people who feel uncomfortable with having a holiday they don't celebrate pushed at them constantly for about two months are pitiful?

[angelicdragonpuppy]

The concept of commercialized holidays within an incorrect time frame is incorrect.

 

Incorrect=Broken.

 

This is a way to fix it.

We've had the same Holidays for 3+ years on DC now, and they have worked just fine as far as I can see. That, to me, says they are far from "broken." Changing the day or title of the events wouldn't create any less 'drama.' Other than this thread, I haven't heard a word of complaint against the Holidays in terms of their names or dates. The only way to remove drama entirely would be to remove the Holidays, which as you found out is a fairly unpopular suggestion.

 

Which is why I suggested their elimination and replacement with seasonal events. Because it's not just Christmas that makes sparks fly; it's all of them.

 

Again, what makes the 'sparks fly' isn't what the events are called, it's the events THEMSELVES. There haven't been sparks about things being called Halloween or Christmas events, there've been sparks from people missing out on CB limited releases or raffle entries or collectible items or what not. Renaming and moving the events wouldn't change that.

 

Not to mention that I think just general seasonal events would be darn boring. I absolutely love the macabre, spooky Halloween dragons we've got. If those stopped being produced and we started getting like... orange leaf dragons or harvested corn dragons or stupid things like that I'd be terribly disappointed. Those can be released ALL FALL. Reserve one day a year for guaranteed spooky dragons, please. My thoughts are the same on Valentines--all of those dragons have been wicked cute. I don't want them replaced with seasonal things, I want my candy and love and flower dragons, thank you. And if those stay, Christmas dragons must stay, too.

 

Now, that being said, I WOULD like to see some changes to the Christmas dragons in the future--the repeated colors are getting rather stale--but it's entirely possible to do that without changing the date or spirit of the event. Gold and Silver ornament dragons. Brown gingerbread dragons. Cream candle dragons. Green elf pygmies. Something elegant, anything to break up the color explosion that most of our current Christmas dragons fall victim to. /is fond of more tightly-controlled color schemes ;____;

 

So...people who feel uncomfortable with having a holiday they don't celebrate pushed at them constantly for about two months are pitiful?

 

If they are truly being antagonized for a whole two months in the real world, then no. If they can't even bear to see the word Christmas used once a year in a non-religious way on an adoptables site, then yes. People need to stop being so quick to be offended over everything and leave well enough alone. e___e

Edited January 17, 2013 by angelicdragonpuppy

[cyradis4]

Haven't read all the thread, but Christmas originated as a pagen holiday (back in Roman times, before 200 AD if I recall correctly) and was co-opted by the early Church to encourage people to convert to the new religion. Basically, the early Church stole a huge amount of it's celebrations / forms and such from said other religion (the one that was popular with the army at the time, the name eludes me right now, Mith something or other?). In fact, I do believe Christ's birthday was.... creatively remembered in order to put Christmas near the date of that other religion, which probably did celebrate on the Solstice. I think I read somewhere that based on Roman laws and such, Christ was far more likely to have been born in March than in December. (ie, parents traveling to their home province becasue of Roman law, hence why Christ was born in Bethlehem).

 

And in truth... TJ celebrates Christmas, so I expect the site to celebrate Christmas. If I were on a site who's owner celebrated Hanuka (or any other holiday!) I would celebrate it with them, and be thrilled even though I celebrate Christmas. And I expect people to do the same, on the sites where the owner celebrates Christmas. I find it disgusting that people feel "biased" against, when the *owner of the site* celebrates the holidays he wants to celebrate, because they are important to him, and shares them for free with everyone else. And in fact, almost *demand* that the site change to accommodate *their* religion, too. It's like me going onto a site where the owners celebrate a different winter holiday and demanding them to change it, because it's "biased" against Christmas.

 

Oh, and those calling for Christmas to be changed to the Winter Solstice? I seem to recall that several other smaller religeons make a big deal of it, so if we celebrated that, we'd be biasing against all other religions.

 

So I think the Holidays should stay whatever TJ wants them to be. It's his site, and I'm going to enjoy whatever he puts out for whatever holiday.

 

Cheers!

C4.

Edited January 17, 2013 by cyradis4

[Starbit]

Haven't read all the thread, but Christmas originated as a pagen holiday (back in Roman times, before 200 AD if I recall correctly) and was co-opted by the early Church to encourage people to convert to the new religion. Basically, the early Church stole a huge amount of it's celebrations / forms and such from said other religion (the one that was popular with the army at the time, the name eludes me right now, Mith something or other?). In fact, I do believe Christ's birthday was.... creatively remembered in order to put Christmas near the date of that other religion, which probably did celebrate on the Solstice. I think I read somewhere that based on Roman laws and such, Christ was far more likely to have been born in March than in December.

 

And in truth... TJ celebrates Christmas, so I expect the site to celebrate Christmas. If I were on a site who's owner celebrated Hanuka (or any other holiday!) I would celebrate it with them, and be thrilled even though I celebrate Christmas. And I expect people to do the same, on the sites where the owner celebrates Christmas. I find it disgusting that people feel "biased" against, when the *owner of the site* celebrates the holidays he wants to celebrate, because they are important to him, and shares them for free with everyone else. And in fact, almost *demand* that the site change to accommodate *their* religion, too. It's like me going onto a site where the owners celebrate a different winter holiday and demanding them to change it, because it's "biased" against Christmas.

 

Oh, and those calling for Christmas to be changed to the Winter Solstice? I seem to recall that several other smaller religeons make a big deal of it, so if we celebrated that, we'd be biasing against all other religions.

 

So I think the Holidays should stay whatever TJ wants them to be. It's his site, and I'm going to enjoy whatever he puts out for whatever holiday.

 

Cheers!

C4.

This has been mentioned (by me, in fact)

 

Pagans (and I think Wiccans) do celebrate the Winter Solstice but I don't think in a big way. I know a lot of people, many of them not religious at all, like to go watch the Winter Solstice sun rise at Stonehenge (It's something I'd like to do for my birthday one day)

 

As I said, I see no issues with the holidays but solstice/equinox events provide solutions for our three holidays and gives us a summer one, if people feel this offended by Christmas,

[Banuk]

If they are truly being antagonized for a whole two months in the real world, then no. If they can't even bear to see the word Christmas used once a year in a non-religious way on an adoptables site, then yes. People need to stop being so quick to be offended over everything and leave well enough alone. e___e

Just because the word is used in a non-religious way doesn't make it non-religious.

 

And maybe it's not that it's being used once a year on an adoptable site. It might be that it's being used everywhere by just about everyone around that time of the year--it adds up. Especially in an atmosphere that says, "If you don't celebrate Christmas, go sit in the corner with everyone else who doesn't and leave us alone!"

[Millennium07]

Oh yeah, because Christmas is the only religeous holiday DC celebrates...

OH WAIT. Halloween (Samhein) is a religeous holidays to Pagans like myself. And OH GOD HORROR OR HORRORS! I, a Pagan, not a Christian, say *gasp* Merry Christmas to people!

Bloody freaking hell guys, is Christmas that offensive? Like I said, sarcasm aside, I'm not Christian, I follow the old ways, and I still celebrate Christmas, I have a Christmas Tree and cover the house in tinsel. If I can be so anachronistic so as to sit in a room with a Christmas Tree, complete with Christmas Star, and yet be performing a Tarot Reading and have Holly and Ivy hung ceremoniously, surely you can live with 'Christmas Dragons'. I mean the holiday itself has been corrupted by the media to the point that it is celebrated all over the world, even those ignorant of its original meaning - JUST like Samhein.

[gistofeverything]

Just because the word is used in a non-religious way doesn't make it non-religious.

 

And maybe it's not that it's being used once a year on an adoptable site. It might be that it's being used everywhere by just about everyone around that time of the year--it adds up. Especially in an atmosphere that says, "If you don't celebrate Christmas, go sit in the corner with everyone else who doesn't and leave us alone!"

You took the words right out of my mouth.

 

Renaming and moving the events wouldn't change that.

Point taken. Yet this thread isn't about the drama of releases. It's about the oppression of those of other faiths (or lack thereof).

 

If I can be so anachronistic...

! That's not even what anachronism means! Paganism is present in this time frame.

 

surely you can live with 'Christmas Dragons'.

Just because you can doesn't mean everyone is able to.

Edited January 17, 2013 by gistofeverything

[purplehaze]

The holiday celebration here on DC lasts much less than two months -- two weeks or so? What lasts for months is the anticipation and excitement of the members over the event. I have a hard time imagining that a celebration of Winter Solstice or whatever would generate anywhere near that amount of excitement.

 

And I am sorry, but I cannot see how we are "oppressing" anyone. Am I being oppressed by the Halloween events? I do not celebrate Halloween and am somewhat offended by the way it has become such a huge holiday here in the US. It is at heart a celebration of a very anti-Christian sort. Nevertheless, I can enjoy the beautiful dragon sprites and the events that DC has, because they are NOT religious or anti-religious in nature. I believe the same is true for the (dare I say the word?) Christmas events.

 

 

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Point taken. Yet this thread isn't about the drama of releases. It's about the oppression of those of other faiths (or lack thereof).

Using the word 'Christmas' is not oppressive. If it was Hannukah, and someone wished me a good one, then I would certainly not be offended. Likewise, people should be able to mention that a dragon is a Christmas dragon without everyone flipping out over it. Oh the horror, they were released on December 25th and are called Christmas dragons accordingly! Seriously, get over it. What's oppressive--mentioning the word Christmas, or trying to remove a very innocent word that's been a part of this site for 4+ years without anyone ever making a stink over it before, simply because you don't enjoy the day and find it somehow 'offensive' because of that? e____e

 

And in truth... TJ celebrates Christmas, so I expect the site to celebrate Christmas. If I were on a site who's owner celebrated Hanuka (or any other holiday!) I would celebrate it with them, and be thrilled even though I celebrate Christmas. And I expect people to do the same, on the sites where the owner celebrates Christmas. I find it disgusting that people feel "biased" against, when the *owner of the site* celebrates the holidays he wants to celebrate, because they are important to him, and shares them for free with everyone else. And in fact, almost *demand* that the site change to accommodate *their* religion, too. It's like me going onto a site where the owners celebrate a different winter holiday and demanding them to change it, because it's "biased" against Christmas.

 

Oh, and those calling for Christmas to be changed to the Winter Solstice? I seem to recall that several other smaller religeons make a big deal of it, so if we celebrated that, we'd be biasing against all other religions.

 

So I think the Holidays should stay whatever TJ wants them to be. It's his site, and I'm going to enjoy whatever he puts out for whatever holiday.

 

This this this and this.

Edited January 17, 2013 by angelicdragonpuppy

[Fuzzbucket]

So...people who feel uncomfortable with having a holiday they don't celebrate pushed at them constantly for about two months are pitiful?

WELL - if the...

 

I don't celebrate any of these things as part of any kind of religion, tradition, whatever. I am terminally irreligious. I am also terminally unoffended by anyone who wants to celebrate anything that is a part of THEIR religion. I will celebrate right along with them if invited as long as it doesn't involve ritual sacrifice or kneeling for any length of time. I don't give a flying banana if we have a dragon for some mythical little kid's birthday - or MY birthday come to that. (Halloween is close enough though !)

 

As long as we all respect each other's religious sensibilities - where's the harm. By the way and as an aside, when a few councils in the UK decided to call their C**mas celebrations "Winter Festival" celebrations, so as "not to offend Muslims", the most baffled people around were - the Muslims - they couldn't see what the hell anyone was fussing about. They were quite happy to leave things as they were. And in fact to celebrate along with the rest of us.

 

I'll celebrate anything going (as long as we don't end up with more holiday events here than we already have...) Occasions like Christmas, Hanukkah, Diwali (*wants a light dragon...*) are things we can ALL celebrate WITH others following other traditions. Splintering people off into groups and watering down traditions which - wherever they started - have become part of popular culture more than anything just serves to add divisiveness to life, IMNVHO.

 

But if we ARE going this route, I want a Day of the Dead dragon.

 

And in truth... TJ celebrates Christmas, so I expect the site to celebrate Christmas. If I were on a site who's owner celebrated Hanuka (or any other holiday!) I would celebrate it with them, and be thrilled even though I celebrate Christmas. And I expect people to do the same, on the sites where the owner celebrates Christmas. I find it disgusting that people feel "biased" against, when the *owner of the site* celebrates the holidays he wants to celebrate, because they are important to him, and shares them for free with everyone else. And in fact, almost *demand* that the site change to accommodate *their* religion, too. It's like me going onto a site where the owners celebrate a different winter holiday and demanding them to change it, because it's "biased" against Christmas.

 

AMEN !

Edited January 17, 2013 by fuzzbucket

[Taintedtamer]

Augh, this thread is so aggravating to read! It all just boils down to people being butt-hurt about something as minor as the word 'Christmas' showing up twice in a dragon's description. TJ mentioned that he refers to it as the Holiday Event and even the dragons aren't screaming Christmas at you. Plus I think its rude that so many people are being disrespectful towards him when he works hard to make sure the Holidays are enjoyable for everyone here on the site.

 

Holly dragons are red, gold, and green. Yulebucks are peppermint colors with a reindeer appearance and big peppermint/mistletoe leaves. SnowAngels even aren't that bad, they're just pretty white dragons with different colored wings. The ribbon dancers, winter magis, and new wrapping paper dragons are all shiny with colors varying with greens, golds, reds, and whites. And its even called a WINTER magi, not a Christmas Magi.

 

If people want a Menorah dragon, then go and design one. I really have no problem with it, but the holiday events are fine as they are - that goes for Halloween and Valentine's Day as well. If you want your 'religion' to be included, get up and go make a dragon and work to get it accepted just like everyone else does for the Holiday events.

Edited January 17, 2013 by Taintedtamer

[Banuk]

And I find this thread aggravating to read because by insisting that, "It's Christmas, nothing needs to change." we as a community aren't respecting others' "religions".

 

If it didn't bother anyone, this thread wouldn't exist. As it stands, "Christmas" might not even make sense in the medieval fantasy setting of DC, depending on whether or not Christianity exists in the DC world.