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Change the Holidays

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I see absolutely nothing wrong with any of the Holiday events - if anyone is seriously getting upset just because the Holiday dragons have 'Christmas' in their description, they need to take a chill pill.

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It isnt even just christmas...if we look at another holiday..like solstice or yuletide, the origins of christmas trees become apparent. I agree that maybe in the next few release the dragons should look to other religions (?). But even the dragons themselves arent christian/catholic. Holly, Yulebuck, Snow Angel, and Wrapping Paper show the spirit of the holidays and not just that particular religion in my opinion.

 

But i dont think there will be too many problems if we just leave as is. Usually people just encompass all winter religious activites as the 'Christmas Holidays' smile.gif

 

 

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I'm anti-religious in general, so I don't celebrate any holiday in the traditional sense. Once you get past the various religion related things at xmas and easter, all you have left is commercialism anyway, which is pretty much all one sees these days.. especially in the USA.

 

So changing the names doesn't bother me at all.. in fact, I'd appreciate it. Call xmas the Winter Festival. Change Halloween to a Harvest Festival.. merge easter and v'day into a Spring Celebration... and add something in summer, then it's just seasonal. Pick dates randomly for the 1st event, then celebrate that date annually.

 

Just because it isn't your standard holiday anymore doesn't mean the spriters will not give us something special. Holiday releases are always special, so why would the spriters change that?

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I would support the xmas event being more of a winter solstice thing, but it would limit what the event could be.  The winter holidays originally were essentially huge parties with lots of drinking and merry making in general, not much to draw on for an event. xP  Drawing upon the non-religious aspects of xmas gives a lot more to do.

This and all similar comments... (there were several below that were actually even moreso),

 

are really incorrect. Everything from the holly bough, to the christmas tree, to the candle lights, to a variety of traditional dishes--to the hanging of stockings, and the giving of gifts, all have root in elder pagan holidays. The colors, the themes--it all kind of got vaccuumed into one big ball of collective holiday. There's a lot to draw on.

 

Dionysus was the Holly King, although it could represent other spirits.

 

The Christmas Tree dates as far back as old testament times to the Asherah tree, which is ironically called a false idol and labeled as a sin to partake in. Fast forward to modern christianity.

 

Taking in any of these plants was to preserve the spirit of them through the harsh winter.

 

Christmas tree lights are a safer alternative to the placement of candles on the tree.

 

The stockings have a few varieties and origins that got muddled, my favorite being socks hung out with goodies in them for Odin's horse to munch on during the Wild Hunt, and being replaced with more child appropriate goodies, though coal for the bad children.

 

(Flying horse, flying deer... get it? Eight legs, eight reindeer. There's a reason I always draw Sleipnir with antlers.)

 

So on and so forth.

 

But back to the main point: Almost all primary holidays fall around seasonal shifts involving solstices and equinox BECAUSE of these old traditions. I've seen things get stamped out for religious causes here, so there does seem to be a double standard even if I don't personally mind it.

 

I'd say making seasonal holidays out of it could keep anyone from getting intense levels of Politically Correct Butthurt. And it would add a summer holiday event for everyone.

Edited by MinervaClay

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Although I doubt this will get far, I'm in support of tweaking the holidays somewhat.

 

Regarding Christmas, which seems to be the sorest spot of all, how about Yule? Then again, we already have Yulebuck dragons on our scrolls. (Hopefully.) And we also had the 12 days of Christmas event, which is in accordance with the Wiccan 12 days of Yule. Yule was first mentioned in the 4th century (after Christ...), so it definitely fits the medieval setting, too.

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Yule is still pagan in origin, which means the torches and pitchforks might come out upon DC, labeling us dragon worshipping heathens or something.

 

Just call it Midwinter. Make a midsummer, then make a harvest festival and some sort of vernal festival.

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We should have a Chanukah Dragon this year instead of a Christmas one. And then a Kwanza one next year, and then perhaps something about Yuletide, or vice versa. If we're going to focus on a winter Holiday, then at least give each holiday their special time.

 

I definitely want to see Chanukah Dragon instead of a Christmas dragon. A Menorah Dragon! Perhaps the sprite changes color on each of the eight nights, or something to that effect.

 

I'm likewise tired of the sole Christmas dragon parade. I do like the sprites a lot, but it's a little disappointing to keep seeing the same theme repeated over and over. I'm not even remotely religious in any way, and while I celebrate Christmas and Chanukah, I don't care for a singular term for a seasonal event that should encompass everyone.

 

To people to think we should take a chill pill, kindly keep those expressions to yourself. This kind of thing is a legitimate concern and idea, you're being rude.

 

 

Edit: In response to TJ's post, what I'm referring to is the theme of the dragon itself and the fact that they're consistently referred and glorified as Christmas dragons.

Where's my Menorah dragon? :c

Edited by Shiny Hazard Sign

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I'm getting quite tired of people treating the word Christmas like it's dirty and offensive. People can't even put up Christmas trees in public in most places anymore because, oh horrors, they contain the word Christmas and thus are clearly examples of religious intolerance or something. Bleh.

 

Don't fix what ain't broken. I've been here four years, and they have always been Christmas dragons. In all that time, I have never seen anyone be so offended or upset by that that they couldn't enjoy the event for what it is--a goofy and not at all religious dragon-collecting game. Please leave well enough alone.

Edited by angelicdragonpuppy

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Chanukah Dragon! Oriental dragon antlers that are CANDLES.

 

I really don't see a big deal in it myself, but variety in the dragons would be nice. Although I might suggest maintaining the color theme so they stay distinctly associated with this time of year when browsing people's lists.

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In this continent, however? During the middle ages, this was largely contained in Europe.

 

But it's TJ's decision where to base his world off of.

Are you pushing for Aztec dragons? You do know that in the Middle Ages, only the First Peoples lived on the American continents… And I sincerly doubt that their winter traditions resemble anything that resonates with people today. As TJ said, he doesn't even call it a Christmas release — it just shares its date with the national holiday of December 25.

 

Saint Valentine was a Christian martyr, of course, but the traditions of the day have nothing to do with religion. And since the connection with romance was known to Chaucer, it fits with the medieval setting.

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I'm getting quite tired of people treating the word Christmas like it's dirty and offensive. People can't even put up Christmas trees in public in most places anymore because, oh horrors, they contain the word Christmas and thus are clearly examples of religious intolerance or something. Bleh.

 

Don't fix what ain't broken. I've been here four years, and they have always been Christmas dragons. In all that time, I have never seen anyone be so offended or upset by that that they couldn't enjoy the event for what it is--a goofy and not at all religious dragon-collecting game. Please leave well enough alone.

Pretty much my feelings.

 

I really don't understand the push for a change. I know that I will still refer to the holiday releases by their corresponding holidays regardless of how the forum tag them. TJ just said that what we just had was called the 2012 Holiday Event, but obviously what he labeled it didn't really matter since we currently have this discussion going on. Since that is the case, why so we need to change when it appears that the user base isn't going to acknowledge that label anyway?

 

 

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I'm getting quite tired of people treating the word Christmas like it's dirty and offensive. People can't even put up Christmas trees in public in most places anymore because, oh horrors, they contain the word Christmas and thus are clearly examples of religious intolerance or something. Bleh.

Imagine how fun it is on the other side of the table, when you wish someone 'happy holidays' and they yell at you that it's merry christmas and heap abuse on you for not giving them the proper greeting--despite November and December being home to more than one religion's holidays.

 

I'm pretty tired of that.

 

That said...

 

Winter dragons released on the 21st (for the winter solstice) would mean no DC cutting into your Christmas Eve/Day plans. And a little less red & green might leave the door open for more snowy and wintry designs, which would be lovely.

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Winter dragons released on the 21st (for the winter solstice) would mean no DC cutting into your Christmas Eve/Day plans. And a little less red & green might leave the door open for more snowy and wintry designs, which would be lovely.

 

This, but I don't understand why we really need to change the holidays in the first place. I mean, I like them a lot the way they are? :/

 

And I'm Atheist, but the twenty fifth of December is Christmas for me and has always been Christmas.

Edited by DarkEternity

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We can have snowy/wintery/silvery designs for Xmas dragons. So yeah. The door is open as long as the dragon's design reminds of winter/holidays. If we don't use said colors and we get a say, normal purple-ish dragon with no winter-y elements, will it still remind you of winter?

 

And honestly, I'm pretty much against the idea of changing anything. I have not seen too many people complaining about the current setting. Decorating contests are fun, and new dragon on Xmas day is already a DC tradition on itself. That it happens during a holiday, it's part 2. Maybe TJ should make sure he doesn't release dragons on any so-called religious holidays and avoid these days at all costs when releasing new dragons, because this might offend certain people. xd.png

Hear that, TJ?

 

Maybe we do have to add some descriptions to Xmas dragons, so that we can eliminate the word 'Christmas' totally. There, problem fixed. smile.gif

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Maybe TJ should make sure he doesn't release dragons on any so-called religious holidays and avoid these days at all costs when releasing new dragons, because this might offend certain people. xd.png

Hear that, TJ?

 

Maybe we do have to add some descriptions to Xmas dragons, so that we can eliminate the word 'Christmas' totally. There, problem fixed. smile.gif

Well, we probably wouldn't have any releases then. Just look at Catholic calendar; every day celebrates at least one saint.

 

I seriously don't find this that much important. But, I would prefer if it was something based on solstice and sun calendar for this reasons: It fits much better with medieval setting, it introduces much more elements for playing around with, it avoids the theme repetition that holiday dragons have and it gives us an event to have fun with during summer.

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Maybe TJ should make sure he doesn't release dragons on any so-called religious holidays and avoid these days at all costs when releasing new dragons, because this might offend certain people. xd.png

Hear that, TJ?

Geez, did you need to take it to a snarky hurtful place?

 

It's about feeling included, and part of the community.

 

Yes, it's fun to do the vaguely-secular Christmas activities, and collect the vaguely-secular Christmassy dragons, on Christmas, and enjoy the excitement in the air with everybody else. But for folks who don't do Christmas, in a country that not only does, but often views it as a cultural celebration rather than a religious celebration and therefore insists that the Pagan McJewypants out there just stop whining and get with the Christmas Story jokes already--then yes, folks can start to feel shut out.

 

Nobody's trying to take Christmas away. (Heck, moving the date to the solstice would give it back!) Nobody's suggesting cancelling the holidays altogether. (Well, gist...) Just that it could be a little more diverse.

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Geez, did you need to take it to a snarky hurtful place?

 

 

Nobody's trying to take Christmas away. (Heck, moving the date to the solstice would give it back!) Nobody's suggesting cancelling the holidays altogether. (Well, gist...) Just that it could be a little more diverse.

Geez! can't you take a joke when you see it? blink.gifrolleyes.gif

 

And I did not say anything about cancelling them altogether, just that I'm against the changes myself.

 

Well, we probably wouldn't have any releases then. Just look at Catholic calendar; every day celebrates at least one saint.

 

I seriously don't find this that much important. But, I would prefer if it was something based on solstice and sun calendar for this reasons: It fits much better with medieval setting, it introduces much more elements for playing around with, it avoids the theme repetition that holiday dragons have and it gives us an event to have fun with during summer.

 

My point exactly, lol. Not just the Catholic calendar, but also the Orthodox one.

 

I like the Solstice/Equinox idea. This way, we'd have more releases and we'd know when to expect one and to be scroll-ready for the new eggs. Although, some people like surprises and TJ isn't always available for one, we can still have them around that time. It could make the game more fun for everyone.

But as I said, I'm all for the Winter Solstice release to happen on X-mas.

Edited by earthgirl

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I mostly agree with PointOfOrigin. (Though the medieval setting was extremely religious, so that part of the reasoning is faulty.) We have Holiday dragons that are named in their description for a U.S. secular national holiday that happens to coincide with the third most important Christian feast day. (Easter and Pentecost being more important, but not being national holidays.) Halloween dragons celebrate the vigil of All Saints' Day in a fully a-religious way. Valentine's Day dragons celebrate the birth into heaven of Saint Valentine in a manner that completely ignores anything at all about him or his life.

 

I don't object to Christmas dragons looking like Winter dragons. Snow Angels already do this, unless you got the tri-color version.

 

I don't object to having a Summer event, though some have complained that there are too many events and would rather see normal releases.

 

I don't really like the idea of retroactively renaming Christmas dragons to Solstice dragons, though. The "Spirit of Solstice" doesn't really mean anything to me.

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Just because some people who don't have a winter holiday to celebrate celebrate a variation of Christmas as does NOT make it secular. As a Jewish person, it kinda makes me feel upset that people assume that.

YULE-bucks ?

 

Yule is a pagan holiday... Just saying.

 

And I bet no-one would object if a menorah-dragon showed up.

 

(ooh, has idea...)

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YULE-bucks ?

 

Yule is a pagan holiday... Just saying.

 

And I bet no-one would object if a menorah-dragon showed up.

 

(ooh, has idea...)

Menorahs are a fair amount more religion-related than wrapping paper and ribbons...

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Maybe since we're not allowed to have it on a solstice, we can instead create our own DC, amorphous "holiday". This way you can please everyone and avoid drama. (not very theoretical, is it?)

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It's a shame-- the last three years have produced Holiday dragons with nice, neutral, no-specific holiday/religion referenced designs... as spriter alts. Reading this thread, I can't help but wonder if this discussion would even exist if users had been given the wonderful spriter alt versions instead of the current ones. Certainly the difference in colors makes them less obvious Christmas-references as well, which appears to affect some people.

 

Edit:

Suppose I should mention, this is directed toward the idea that renaming the Christmas dragons would open up more diversity. The diversity is there, just not available to the users.

Edited by Nine

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