Trading Inflation

[_Z_]

~Please attack the topic and not each other.~

[TheGrox]

Um, that sounds a bit snarky, Grox. I'll let you know, I didn't ask for those lists. I was presented with CB metals and IOU swaps....I couldn't say no, and neither would you.

 

I was talking about after I fulfilled my lists, I was gonna gift the rest. That's why I closed the lists.

 

Not sure why you are a bit mean to me.

Not being mean at all, I was just a bit ... surprised to see you saying what you did when you have big lists for your Shimmers, is all.

 

And let me tell you, I've already declined offers of CB Metals. Which is why I only have one person at present waiting for Shimmers from me. And I don't really want to add to those lists. I'm presently trying to breed a 3rd gen from one of my Shimmers which has no list, so that I can maybe gift some 4th gens. But I don't try to shout about it.

 

 

ETA: I wasn't attacking anyone, just pointing something out. I didn't see Z's post when I posted this. If that's worth a warn, then ... I give up with this forum.

Edited March 19, 2013 by TheGrox

[_Z_]

~I believe I just requested members stop. ~

[skauble]

The thing is that trade's not unbalanced right now because of who's getting metallics for what and who's gifting - go out, guys, and make all of the large-scale trades you can while the market's hot. That's no more of a moral flaw than it is to collect all of the properties in Monopoly.

 

Gifting is wonderful, but trading is cool, too. This is a game with goals and people are using the current circumstances to help meet them. That's called smart game play.

 

The current inflation and imbalance isn't because people didn't react "appropriately", but because something was introduced into the game which, due to the unbelievably extreme rarity of the CBs (in a game with an often lineage dependent economy), we have nothing of equivalent value. And, realistically, not much other than a lot more CBs is probably ever going to really address it.

 

It's like sending someone into a store with a billion dollar bill. What do you buy? They could give you the whole store and you'd still have change coming. lol

 

It will be interesting to see where the market goes after this initial rush (I already saw a 7th gen in a hatchery today). But, realistically, it's only the longer gen market that will calm some. The short gen market will still be huge, and if metallic rates don't stay at these higher levels I can see us going back to a place where a good part of the CB metals produced get swept up by a small, persistent segment for prize dragon trading.

[Princess_Pinkie]

these prize dragons sure have blown everything up haha you cant go through a page without someone wanting a shimmer.

i want one too but i've basically given up until i can hoard and insane amount of low gen metallics or CBs. i dont think shimmer owners even want 2nd gens anymore.

shimmers only go for CB metallics and CB neglecteds and i'll be working for them forever lol i plan to eventually get a shimmer and once i do, i'll make sure i giveaway an egg at least once a month. every other egg i breed will be gifted because there are too many heart broken traders that dont have a single one and cant get rares to trade.

 

whats the point of offering anything if it isnt 3 or 4 cb metallics just insane.

 

i offered up literally all the eggs and hatchlings i had but took it back because honestly one shimmer wouldnt make up the time i spend with all my babies

and i know one day i'll win my own CB prize dragon uwu and i'll gift like hell.

[love_HP]

I have already decided not to try to get shimmers for now.

They will be easier to get after a few months anyway.

[Bu-tan]

While, yes, being able to offer many CB metals for shimmers right now is taking an advantage of a good thing. I will also reinstate what I've said earlier in the thread.

 

I also agree that it's making a very hard prerequisite for anyone to meet involved both shimmers and cb metals. From the outside, it looks like anyone with a CB Metal is looking for Shimmers, because that's the standard currently....and anyone with Shimmers is most likely going to look at the CB Metal offers first. Creating a cycle that only so many can actually participate in.

 

I've been digging around through the trades for days trying to find a handful of non-shimmer wants for CB Metals so I can gift the metals to family and friends who don't have any CBs. I've found one or two currently, but have been declined, unfortunately.

 

Being on the outside of this circle, it's like trying to bash your face into the wall and break the wall. It ain't happenin'. Which in turn just makes it completely frustrating. Trading shouldn't be frustrating, as you say trading is cool too. I love trading. I hate bashing my face in the wall.

 

It's pretty much just down to one thing currently. With the boom in metals, which not a lot of people had before, it's such a rare commodity that most people, even if they don't own many CB metals are willing to give them up for things they see as bigger and better because of the limited supply. Even when this supply is readily available, much like tinsels are now, the lower gens will still be a higher commodity, because you just can't go and get a cb. 2nd gen Tins are still a very valueable commodity as well, even after being released for several years now. I don't see Shimmers being any different.

 

With alllll of this in mind, it's causing a wave to roll downhill. There are many trades being posted with a multitude of uncommons for CB Metals. I've seen some of the same ones up for days. Even Metals swaps seem to be sitting around. Everyone is holding out for that hope of something bigger and better. I don't blame them. This is the best chance they have right now, truely.

 

BUT. It's going even further, smaller trades are also pretty much grinding to a hault in light of everything else going on. I've been unable to even trade a BSA for a BSA or nice things for PEBBLES. And to be honest, it's because of the metal boom. Eggs are being dumped and you can see that by just taking a peek in the AP. There is no backlash right now for just dumping missclicks or caveblockers. Those are getting dumped in hopes of bagging rarer things to bring to the trading threads.

 

TL;DR There are a lot of things a work that are causing a wrench to get thrown in the trading wheel. Not just shimmers.

Edited March 20, 2013 by Bu-tan

[MaggieXawesomeness]

I also agree that it's making a very hard prerequisite for anyone to meet involved both shimmers and cb metals. From the outside, it looks like anyone with a CB Metal is looking for Shimmers, because that's the standard currently....and anyone with Shimmers is most likely going to look at the CB Metal offers first. Creating a cycle that only so many can actually participate in.

This. It's like a never ending cycle.

Someone has been lucky enough to get several CB metals. They trade it in for a Shimmer, and trade its offspring for more CB Metals, and then trade those Metals for even another Shimmer, and do the same with it.... and...

Edited March 20, 2013 by MaggieXawesomeness

[Syphoneira]

While, yes, being able to offer many CB metals for shimmers right now is taking an advantage of a good thing. I will also reinstate what I've said earlier in the thread.

 

 

 

I've been digging around through the trades for days trying to find a handful of non-shimmer wants for CB Metals so I can gift the metals to family and friends who don't have any CBs. I've found one or two currently, but have been declined, unfortunately.

 

Being on the outside of this circle, it's like trying to bash your face into the wall and break the wall. It ain't happenin'. Which in turn just makes it completely frustrating. Trading shouldn't be frustrating, as you say trading is cool too. I love trading. I hate bashing my face in the wall.

 

It's pretty much just down to one thing currently. With the boom in metals, which not a lot of people had before, it's such a rare commodity that most people, even if they don't own many CB metals are willing to give them up for things they see as bigger and better because of the limited supply. Even when this supply is readily available, much like tinsels are now, the lower gens will still be a higher commodity, because you just can't go and get a cb. 2nd gen Tins are still a very valueable commodity as well, even after being released for several years now. I don't see Shimmers being any different.

 

With alllll of this in mind, it's causing a wave to roll downhill. There are many trades being posted with a multitude of uncommons for CB Metals. I've seen some of the same ones up for days. Even Metals swaps seem to be sitting around. Everyone is holding out for that hope of something bigger and better. I don't blame them. This is the best chance they have right now, truely.

 

BUT. It's going even further, smaller trades are also pretty much grinding to a hault in light of everything else going on. I've been unable to even trade a BSA for a BSA or nice things for PEBBLES. And to be honest, it's because of the metal boom. Eggs are being dumped and you can see that by just taking a peek in the AP. There is no backlash right now for just dumping missclicks or caveblockers. Those are getting dumped in hopes of bagging rarer things to bring to the trading threads.

 

TL;DR There are a lot of things a work that are causing a wrench to get thrown in the trading wheel. Not just shimmers.

 

 

 

Well, maybe TJ will experiment with the ratios and we'll no longer undergo this extreme dearth of metals, Blusangs and Blacks, etc. so that trading can balance out and people can get what they need for lineages and collection purposes.

 

If metals - especially CBs - hadn't been virtually extinct for much of the past few years, and were instead possible for most people to get with time and effort put in, they wouldn't have such insane value for trades and people could continue lineages that required them.

 

And we also would be less likely to have people offering 8 or 9 CB metals for a low-gen Tinsel because we wouldn't have that mindset, or that get-it-before-it's-gone-never-have-the-chance-to-get-that-again lust for them, lol.

[Bu-tan]

I couldn't agree with that sentiment more. It's -that- mindset that keeps the trades rolling that direction right now. It's the reason I've been perpetually keeping one to two slots open while hunting. I have five golds on my scroll. It had been three years between my last bred gold and my cb, and even still, another YEAR before my CB actually bred another gold.

 

Metals have been through the roof rare. I understand they're rare, but o.0. Because of that it's that mindset that keeps me in the biomes every hour trying. It's that mindset that keeps others hunting constantly. It's a 'now or never' attitude. A frantic try for, again, something perceived as bigger and better.

 

Shimmers are beautiful dragons, so I understand the reason why so many are offering as much as they can. Yet, they're not going anywhere. :3 Unfortunately, we really don't know if the metals are going to die down or not. I personally worry that they are and that nervous little voice in the back of my head bugs me about it. I can't be the only one worried about the 'end of the boom' which just results even more of that 'now or never' attitude in the trading threads.

 

The idea of 'we don't have much time' just perpetuates the continuation of a lot of the trading gears being thrown outta whack.

[Slaskia]

Trading is so frustrating right now. What I can offer is never 'good enough' for what I am offering on. My metals don't like producing metals, and the rare times they do, people only want CBs of said metals (which I can't catch).

 

I've been 'bidding' on the few shimmer trades I see (and low gen tinsels), but I'm out done or declined out right each time, even when the owner says to offer 'anything' and that 'everything will be 'considered'.

 

It's about enough to make me give up on trading completely and stick with gifting.

Edited March 20, 2013 by Slaskia

[Vhale]

Unfortunately, it probably didn't help that people were told to remove lotto announcements from the shimmer thread. Now people there and here mostly talk about trading or breeding and the few announcements I've seen are buried via a single post in the trades area, if at all. So, people don't see them. The chatter about them for about a page on the other threads helped them get noticed. Now, they are invisible, which helps create the impression of metals or bust.

[Slaskia]

Unfortunately, it probably didn't help that people were told to remove lotto announcements from the shimmer thread. Now people there and here mostly talk about trading or breeding and the few announcements I've seen are buried via a single post in the trades area, if at all. So, people don't see them. The chatter about them for about a page on the other threads helped them get noticed. Now, they are invisible, which helps create the impression of metals or bust.

Yeah, that's an issue as well. Plus (at least for me, as I won't touch IRC), not every one likes to hang out in the IRC channel hoping for a Shimmer lotto.

[DarkEternity]

Try to make metals less rare and what you'll get is shimmer traders ONLY trading for shimmer swaps. Which means that not only is they want what you don't catch, but you stand no chance of trading for anything at all because anything the shimmer traders want is completely unobtainable rather than partly unobtainable. Perhaps the rarity of CB prizes will have to come down to compensate, but then the second gens would stop being desirable and CB prizes would be the only actual currency on the market.

[skauble]

With alllll of this in mind, it's causing a wave to roll downhill. There are many trades being posted with a multitude of uncommons for CB Metals. I've seen some of the same ones up for days. Even Metals swaps seem to be sitting around. Everyone is holding out for that hope of something bigger and better. I don't blame them. This is the best chance they have right now, truely.

 

BUT. It's going even further, smaller trades are also pretty much grinding to a hault in light of everything else going on. I've been unable to even trade a BSA for a BSA or nice things for PEBBLES. And to be honest, it's because of the metal boom. Eggs are being dumped and you can see that by just taking a peek in the AP. There is no backlash right now for just dumping missclicks or caveblockers. Those are getting dumped in hopes of bagging rarer things to bring to the trading threads.

 

TL;DR There are a lot of things a work that are causing a wrench to get thrown in the trading wheel. Not just shimmers.

I agree completely. Although, I do think that the desperation aspect of the metal boom does relate back to Shimmers, in the end. This happened with Tinsels, too, where folks who were no longer focusing so hard core on metal collecting re-entered and then stayed in the hunt in order to get Golds and Silvers for Tin trades.

 

So, even with the boom, there's a corresponding upswing in demand because of the Shimmer raffle and a packed field of hunters.

 

The thing that concerns me, though, is that I don't think that this is an issue that should get a player fix. I think that you're dead on that our entire trading market has kind of fractured, but I believe this has an in-game cause and so it needs an in-game fix.

 

There's a lot of back and forth on the issue but, on the whole, I think that the prize dragons were a good addition to the game. I think that events that create buzz and require participation are good for the site, and I think that prize dragons were a great project for many people who had collected large amounts of most dragons. Sure, some people just wanted a Gold, Silver, and a Bronze, but a lot of people saw each pairing as almost it's own kind of hybrid breed - Silver/Nebula, Bronze/Water, etc.

 

Unfortunately, there weren't enough CBs given out. And while I believe that the number went up this year (although we'll have to see if we get Shimmers for two years), IMO, it's still not enough. Because, as you pointed out, the high end market won't diminish nearly as much as the longer gen market will. And both the actual huge value trades that will continue for that sliver of the trade market and the perception that those kinds of trades are the only way to break into that part of the market (either on the metal side or the prize dragon side), are going to continue to create a vortex that pulls the rest off the market off of a reasonably steady course.

 

But, again, my thing is that I've seen a number of people who want to try to help fix the issue by gifting or trading for X instead of Y, and while I absolutely think those are very admirable things, I really, really think that this is something that should be adjusted in-game because the prizes could be awarded on a much, much larger scale (especially if they changed every year) and still accomplish their purpose.

[Bu-tan]

@Dark. :3 I could see that, in a way. Mostly due to the fact that a LOT of the shimmers popping up in the trade threads are already for 'shimmer swaps only'. Which is kinda keeping it in a tight little circle right now. Proabably mostly because they're still not heavily in circulation like Tinsels. I still say give it time.

 

TO ME, posting for shimmer offers right now is.....well....kinda moot. Either people's lists are -already- full and bursting at the seems or the owners probably have other ideas of what they want already. [i also think it's rather rude to say you'd only take being on a list by demand being placed on the top of a list, because there are people who've already been waiting for a while. :/ That's just my /twocents.]

 

I'm also not entirely sure that the prizes were ever meant to be such a high commodity on the trading market. It just fell that way because CBs are something that are unobtainable in the cave. So it makes their low gen offspring a type of 'Ultra Rare' so to speak. Somewhat akin to what Holly dragons are now. 2nd gen offspring are still a BIG commodity, but unlike the Hollies, shimmers can breed year round. Which is why I don't think the Prizes were ever meant to be super-fantastic-ultra-omggivemyrightarmforatrade rare. Yet they are, because you just can't just go get one.

 

I'm just patiently biding my time until the stars in everyone's eyes have dwindled a little and we have a larger market. Hopefully that might bring down the inflation a wee bit, but I still think multiple cb metals are going to be offered for quite some time on 2-3rd gen. And I dunno about some of you guys, but sometimes I find a lineage that's 10g, but kept perfect and it's just as beautiful to me as a 4th gen of the same lineage, but that's where subjectiveness comes into play.

 

[Also, I love getting great discussion from everyone. I love seeing all the different view points being tossed out!]

Edited March 20, 2013 by Bu-tan

[XiziX]

I have pretty much decided on giving up trading all together for now... It's ridiculous, and since it's all so messed up, what's the point in trying? As the above mentioned posts have stated; there needs to be a fix, otherwise more and more people are just going to get discouraged. We need help from everyone to fix this, but I don't put much faith into people right now with how things are going. In-game and player base need to help with this.

 

I mean, I have seen trades that ask for a very specific thing in exchange, I offer it, and get denied. Or the trade sits there for days till my offer or the thing I am offering on hatches/matures. It isn't just me either. Friends - and friends of friends - are all giving up on trading because of the sheer lack of balance to anything anymore. You can offer what someone asks for, but now the chances of that even being enough is slim to none. Like the post above me, everyone wants their trade to sit there and wait for the "SUPER AMAZING FABULOUS OFFER" to come along, and it just kills the possibility of having successful trades. Because people are too busy focusing on the BEST possible thing they could ever want, instead of considering the fairness and how much they are screwing up values...

 

Yes, everyone wants the best, but don't get tunnel vision! Some people need to calm down about all of these things (Rares/Shimmers) and start trading again with equal value wants/needs. :<

 

Meeehhh.... :[

Edited March 20, 2013 by Lyxii

[skauble]

I do want to add - after I went all gloom and doomy gus there - that I have seen CB prize dragon owners and those with low gen prize offspring who are gifting or trading for things other than piles of CB metals. Likewise, I've seen people gifting CB metals or trading them for things other than prize dragons.

 

So I want to be clear that I don't think this is about certain people only trading for X. I do think, though, that a lot of those exchanges/deals tend to be set up somewhere other than in forum threads, and so they don't get much exposure.

 

But I think there's a combination of actual incredibly high value trades that go through, high value offers that people continuously pursue and gather because they believe that's the only way to make those trades, the perception of people who aren't having luck accessing either of those things (prize dragons/lots of CB metals) that they're cut out of that part of the market, and then the ripples it sends through the rest of the market, that are all working together here.

 

And, again, I think that the best fixing point for that is simply a rarity adjustment.

[Princess_Pinkie]

yànno what would be awesome? if for one day shimmers dropped in the cave so we wouldnt have this problem anymore lol

 

then maybe those people that only accept a handful of cb metals would have to down size their trades a ton.

 

i understand that theyre supposed to be prize dragons but this backlash in trade value is just frustrating. i cant even trade a 2nd gen gold for a couple of hatchlings.

Edited March 20, 2013 by Princess_Pinkie

[DarkEternity]

yànno what would be awesome? if for one day shimmers dropped in the cave so we wouldnt have this problem anymore lol

 

then maybe those people that only accept a handful of cb metals would have to down size their trades a ton.

 

i understand that theyre supposed to be prize dragons but this backlash in trade value is just frustrating. i cant even trade a 2nd gen gold for a couple of hatchlings.

No, because people would collect the CB shimmers - I know I would and feasibly could with my considerable trading power - and scroll lock themselves full of them and then dominate the trading market. Remember that not everyone has high internet speeds.

Edited March 20, 2013 by DarkEternity

[SnowSherry]

It seems that a cb gold is not enough for a 2nd gen shimmer

[Oddsoxdi]

The Metal flood is ALREADY drying up, but the SHimmer-traders are STILL only taking multiple CB Metals for their beasts. Some people are just incapable of snagging CB Metals, and nobody wants to trade a CB metal for Commons/Uncommons. Let them SAY 'Oh, I'll take a pretty lineage' - until they're offered 3CB Golds and 3 CB Silvers.

 

3gen and 4gen Golds and Silvers have turned into absolute crap to trade. Nobody even OFFERS on them - not even a Metal swap.

 

It's really frustrating to always be on the outside of these trading deals looking in at those privileged few with either the Prize dragons or the unbelievably speedy connections to snag multiple CB metals to trade for all the prize dragons. Oh sure, someday Shimmers will be in the AP like the Tinsels - long lineaged ugly pedigreed ones, just like a lot of the Tinsels you see in the AP now.

[tjekan]

I really think an in-game marketplace would be likely to completely solve this problem. Only a small percentage of DC players actually hang around on the forum. We're all trading amongst the same little subset of people, and that means that fads get amplified and markets get saturated *fast*. If there was a broader trading community, it wouldn't be such a problem. I guarantee you that there are a lot of players out there who are still very interested in a 4th-gen silver, but there aren't many people left on the forum who want them and don't yet have them.

Edited March 20, 2013 by tjekan

[Tabitah]

The offical trades posted in forum for shimmers have nothing to do with trades 'behind the curtain'. There shimmers aren't only going for lots of metalls.

 

And I do know a lot of people who are gifting them and not only high gens.

 

The problem what will you ask for a shimmer? Lots of rare or just a cb ice? Then you will get 25 offers or more and to who will you give the shimmer?

 

After me if it would be possible, I would breed 100 shimmers at once and give everybody one even for free :-)

 

But don't forget we do need challenges, it is not only a collecting game but a hunting and trading game. And it is also about luck.

 

I do know somebody who got an offer on a 2nd gen gold egg (it was a 2nd gen tinsel for it) this person was also scroll poor before but she had luck....everything is possible, even grapping CB shimmers out of the AP ;-)

[tjekan]

Lots of people are definitely gifting or lottoing, Tabitah, and that's very generous of them, but it doesn't address the problem of the trading game becoming more boring than it once was. :-) It was satisfying to do moderately difficult things like catch four CB blacks, hatch them, and trade them for a 2nd-gen metallic you wanted. Or to finally manage to breed a 4th-gen tinsel and right away swap it for a different lineage. Right now, those just haven't become trades many forumgoers are interested in anymore. That's why I think a bigger marketplace would liven things up a lot.