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TheGrox

ANSWERED:Raffle Rethink?

Should we increase the number of raffle Prizes given out?  

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A lot of the 'missing' Tinsel's from last year were actually won by people that don't use the forums.

Do you have any proof that those people didn't just quit? If your statement is valid, then I find it interesting that everyone who won the skill contest apparently uses the forums while nearly a third of those who won through the random lotto do not. And that none of their Tinsel's offspring have shown up to be tracked back to the CB.

 

Also LugiaLover: I've seen offers of 2 CB Metals for a single 2nd gen Tinsel. They are still rare as all heck. I very, very much doubt that those missing CB Tinsels are the result of people simply not being excited about winning them.

Edited by angelicdragonpuppy

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I can see it being shouted as "unfair", but if there is a limitation, bronze trophy is the best qualification I can see. It isn't that hard to get if someone tries. The only active members it would exclude are those who join too close to the time of the event to get 50 dragons.

 

After all, if someone has had an account for more than enough time to get a bronze trophy [without incubate] and has not gotten that trophy it does not bode well for them remaining active in the future, if the site hasn't held their attention long enough to even get 50 dragons.

 

The other thing is, the event isn't a very good way to weed out people who aren't interested in dragcave. If the person happens to be on during the event [or checks to see if this site does something cool for xmas], even if normal dragcave bores the heck out of them they are likely to participate in the event. Why? Because the events, especially this cooking event, tend to be a lot more interesting to someone whose attention is not held by the day-to-day dragcave, so they are more likely to stick around and do it, even if they don't care about the pixel dragons.

Pokemonfan, you sum things up better than I ever do =P. I completely agree with what you said, I can even see where you are coming from with the 'thinking ahead' part too xd.png. But I'm afraid too many people would shout "unfair" from the rooftops for the Gold Trophy idea to ever work...

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I am not doing this for my own personal gain. I know I will never win, and I don't mind. I just hate seeing others win and then leave straight away. That is of no benefit to anyone.

 

New players won't choose not to play because of this. In fact, it would give them a goal to reach if they weren't in this year's raffle, so that they get into the next one.

Of course it is. You have nothing to lose from this change and everything to gain.

 

A raffle is already a fair system.

 

As I said, winning a prize should not come with the obligation that it be "useful." It's a prize. It's not of your concern what they decide to do.

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Of course it is. You have nothing to lose from this change and everything to gain.

Is there any harm in trying to improve the system? Of course there are other people of the same opinion as me, are we all out just to skew the raffle so that we win prizes? No. In fact I prefer not having a prize. At least, I'm glad I didn't win a prize when I was a newer player. Why? Because now I know the thrill of catching my own CB uncommons and rares. With a prize, I could just sit back, ask for multiple CB Metals for it's offspring, and get bored easily.

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I'm not for this. It doesn't seem that welcoming to new players who are told that they can't win a prize because they haven't been here long enough (or even to make it more difficult). Probably one of the issues with the tinsels last year vs. the year before was that they weren't new and exciting. Everyone knew what they were going to be and they weren't as special and valuable. I think that's why we don't know where all of them are.

This. There's been a thread somewhere else here about being unwelcoming to new players. How much more unwelcoming would it be to say hi, you can play but you can't win a prize till you show you are "worthy".

 

I've been here a while, never won a thing, and am still here. What does that prove ?

 

That I love collecting and breeding dragons.

 

Is all.

 

ETA just re-read the thread. A totally unfair raffle as is being suggested here would make me much MORE likely to quit, as I would feel the game was becoming unfair.

Edited by fuzzbucket

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Let me use a raffle I am familier with that had issues but was still considered fair. I worked at Walmart during this time period, when they were doing a giveaway of the PS3 system (they were just coming out). Some of those who waited in the store for HOURS for the raffle where actually there because their boss PAID them to try for the raffle, with a bonus if they actually WON said raffle for them.

 

Even tho some would of considered it unfair, to the rules of the raffle game it is completly fair.

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Why not change the raffle to something where everybody who participates successfully has a guarantee to get one of the prize dragons? Who would it hurt? There would still only be one CB per scroll (unless people traded away their CBs - and in such a case, TJ should definitely check the IPs), and people would be better able to create lineages.
The problem with giving them to everyone is that then they're not worth anything at all, really.
And why is that a problem?

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The problem with giving them to everyone is that then they're not worth anything at all, really.
And why is that a problem?

A prize is not a prize if EVERYONE gets one. Prizes are supposed to be limited, to be earned. Not handed to everyone on a silver platter.

Edited by Dolphinsong

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There's been a thread somewhere else here about being unwelcoming to new players. How much more unwelcoming would it be to say hi, you can play but you can't win a prize till you show you are "worthy".

Obviously winning the raffle is unwelcoming enough for newer players, given that most of last years newer players who won quit. Isn't it unwelcoming when you are a newer player to see your inbox fill up at an alarming rate, with PMs about your new prize, when you are still trying to get to know the game in general? I think this was probably a cause of some players quitting.

 

 

Also, as for giving everyone a prize. I can see how that might work, but that would devalue the prizes completely. It would be effectively the same as we do now, giving players 2 CB Christmas dragons each year.

Edited by TheGrox

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Is there any harm in trying to improve the system? Of course there are other people of the same opinion as me, are we all out just to skew the raffle so that we win prizes? No. In fact I prefer not having a prize. At least, I'm glad I didn't win a prize when I was a newer player. Why? Because now I know the thrill of catching my own CB uncommons and rares. With a prize, I could just sit back, ask for multiple CB Metals for it's offspring, and get bored easily.

You're not improving the system. You're trying to bias it in your favor (and you don't have to WIN to benefit - offspring counts too)

 

Of course people share you're opinion. They stand to gain just as much as you.

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Of course it is. You have nothing to lose from this change and everything to gain.

 

A raffle is already a fair system.

 

As I said, winning a prize should not come with the obligation that it be "useful." It's a prize. It's not of your concern what they decide to do.

This ^

 

If someone chooses to not breed their prize dragon ever it's their right :/

They won it. Nobody else. They should not have to feel obligated or be forced to share with the rest of us. Would it be kind to share? Yes. Would I like them to share? Of course XD But again it's their dragon to do with what they wish and nobody should be allowed to tell them what they can and cannot do with it. That's like trying to dictate another persons play style xP

 

I think the current system as stands is perfect even if my chances of winning are very small at least I have that tiny chance.

 

Take the tree decorating for example. I spent days planing out the color scheme for my tree and I did it in the traditional style which basically means I had not a snowballs chance in hades when voting came out and I saw what some people had done with their trees. It floored me. I am simply not an artistic minded person in the way of art.

 

Writing? I am killer at writing but pictures and coloring and art and decorating? Heck no.

 

I was happy when we went to a raffle where all players had as fair of a shot as possible and I think the current system needs no changes.

Edited by Reidragon

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A raffle is already a fair system.

 

As I said, winning a prize should not come with the obligation that it be "useful." It's a prize. It's not of your concern what they decide to do.

I agree with rayden54.

No need for a change.

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And why is that a problem?

A prize is not a prize if EVERYONE gets one. Prizes are supposed to be limited, to be earned. Not handed to everyone on a silver platter.

Not necessarily.

 

A prize is still a prize, even if everyone gets one.

Edited by fuzzbucket

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Obviously winning the raffle is unwelcoming enough for newer players, given that most of last years newer players who won quit. Isn't it unwelcoming when you are a newer player to see your inbox fill up at an alarming rate, with PMs about your new prize, when you are still trying to get to know the game in general? I think this was probably a cause of some players quitting.

 

 

Also, as for giving everyone a prize. I can see how that might work, but that would devalue the prizes completely. It would be effectively the same as we do now, giving players 2 CB Christmas dragons each year.

I don't even think that makes sense.

 

Can you actually find anyone who quit because they won ?

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You're not improving the system. You're trying to bias it in your favor (and you don't have to WIN to benefit - offspring counts too)

 

Of course people share you're opinion. They stand to gain just as much as you.

I'm not even going to argue with you any more. How can I prove you wrong? I think that not just me, but EVERY active player would gain from these changes, by giving EVERY active player a slightly better chance of winning.And, more prizes = more trading and lineage opportunities = more fun. (Of course I'm not saying prize winners shouldn't just breed for themselves, that is their right, but it is more likely that most won't.)

 

@fuzzbucket, the players who quit offered no reason as far as I know, so I can't be sure WHY they quit. All I can do is try to consider why they might have quit - I only said that was a possibility. It does make sense. I probably didn't word it too well, but it should do.

Edited by TheGrox

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At the very least, can I suggest that there be more winners (although there might be this time, since TJ never listed how many there'd be this time around...)? With a playing population as big as DC's is, even if 100 prizes were given out every year, they'd still be very, very rare. The difference, though, would be that having people who won quit a few weeks later wouldn't be nearly as upsetting. I care about losing them now because every person lost is a big chunk of the CB breeding population gone. That wouldn't be such a big deal if there were more to start with.

 

...Which is also why I wish this year's prizes were still Tinsels... the CBs seem to be being pulled as prizes before there are nearly enough in the system...

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I'm not even going to argue with you any more. How can I prove you wrong? I think that not just me, but EVERY active player would gain from these changes, by giving EVERY active player a slightly better chance of winning.And, more prizes = more trading and lineage opportunities = more fun. (Of course I'm not saying prize winners shouldn't just breed for themselves, that is their right, but it is more likely that most won't.)

I am an active player, and I wouldn't see this as a gain.

 

A raffle is by its nature a game of chance.

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At the very least, can I suggest that there be more winners (although there might be this time, since TJ never listed how many there'd be this time around...)?

I have been assuming that there are no honorable mentions this time around, just a certain number of users would win the new prize dragon. Not sure if that's how it will go this year but from the wording that seems the most likely to me.

Edited by Reidragon

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How about ( will be hated cool.gif )

 

Have the fun things and badges but don't give out prizes period!!!! Really the only totally fair solution. Yes there already prize winners- but that doesn't mean we need to have a contest every year. Or at all

 

current suggestions:

I like the minimum bronze trophy.

 

other sites limit special issues-reissues to experienced player- I see nothing wrong with the idea of working to earn the right to get "prizes"

 

I also like an increase in the number of prizes proportional to the number of players

 

but in reality, I don't see a real reason to change anything.

 

( I never win anything, so it wouldn't make a bit of difference what is done, as long as we don't go back to subjective judging.)

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A raffle is only fair when everyone has the same chances to win, regardless of joining date. Favoristism has nothing to do with fairness.

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It is TJ's decision and his alone that we've been having these contests. He makes no mention of them what so ever when the holiday events are being planned by us spriters. For all we know, next year there might not be a contest, its all up to his mood.

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Its not TJ's fault the owners of some of the prize dragons left but that shouldn't force him to change how the raffle is done. People come and go every year, that is the norm here and will also be so.

 

New or old players should have EQUAL chances at any and all raffles every year, it is completly unfair to exempt ANYONE from events, this includes raffles.

 

If the owner leaves or just plain doesn't want to breed their awarded dragon, thats their decision, we cannot force them nor will TJ force the issue.

 

Just like with spriter alts, we don't have to breed our differently colored dragons so people can have them in lovely lineages yet we do because we wish to, not because we are being forced to.

 

Leave the raffle as it is.

THIS

 

To be completely honest, I don't like the whole raffle thing in the first place, but that's my own issue because I don't do well with competition.

 

But I DO think the raffle is completely fair right now: EVERYONE who does such-and-such is entered into the raffle. Everyone has a chance. That's how it SHOULD be.

 

People leave, people don't breed prize dragons, and that's just a fact of the game. We just have to deal with it. People shouldn't feel forced to keep playing just because they have a prize dragon, or excluded because they are "too new and might not stay". That's completely unfair.

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A raffle is only fair when everyone has the same chances to win, regardless of joining date. Favoristism has nothing to do with fairness.

Right on.

 

I was never in favour of prizes, mind.

 

I may have been smart there xd.png

 

And yes - never again subjective judging. That was just awful.

Edited by fuzzbucket

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The gold trophy bit was not a serious suggestion. I put the "crazy thinking ahead" there for a reason. x3 I know that it would be waaay to unpopular to ever be considered.

 

 

But I do think that bronze trophy is a reasonable limit.

 

According to my math [50 dragons divided by four dragons per batch [12.5 batches rounded up to 13 since it doesn't take less time to raise a half a batch], multiplied by 3 days to hatch each batch] it should take 39 days to get a bronze trophy if all the eggs hatched as soon as they could and were replaced immediately, but with no outside infusion of hatchlings or lower time eggs, assuming the final batch was frozen. If they needed to get to adulthood 42 days.

 

So that's like a month and a third to get a bronze trophy with maximum raising efficiency without incubate, without any low-time eggs from the AP, and without outside infusions of hatchlings.

 

Since newbies rarely raise their early dragons efficiently [eggs dying through not knowing the ropes, eggs hatching at 1 day left, etc] let's say 3 months as a good time for a newbie without any guidance [ie not told to use fansites, not told that they should hatch right after they hit 4 days, etc] but who likes the site enough to keep trying.

 

Now let's go to the newbie whose attention is barely held by the site. The kind of newbie who gets on often enough that they'll discover the xmas event [or remembers the site to check to see if it has an xmas event] and be interested enough in it to participate, but is also likely to get bored and quit, even with a shiny, super special dragon on their scroll, or at least not be breeding it every week to produce shiny super special dragon babies for the rest of us. They are very unlikely to have been attentive enough to get enough views to avoid killing their eggs. It is also unlikely that they would be getting on frequently enough to replace their eggs right after they hatch/die. So they would have an extremely low success rate, and would likely not have a bronze trophy in 6 months, perhaps not even in a year. [and that's if they still are even getting on at that point] A time frame where an active player could have a silver, or perhaps even a gold trophy.

 

Basically limiting it to bronze trophy people limits it to the people who care enough about dragcave and like dragcave enough to put in the time it takes to get 50 dragons. Yes, it is a little unfair to those who happen to join too close to the event to have a chance of getting a bronze trophy without a LOT of outside help [hatchling infusions], but the holiday dragon system is already unfair to anyone who doesn't have the maximum possible slots, since, especially with halloween, it limits the number of dragons they can raise.

Edited by Pokemonfan13

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The instant that winning a prize dragon becomes an obligation to stay on the site and keep breeding for other people is the instant I request my scroll be burned.

 

The really nice thing about DC is you get to do whatever you want with what's on your scroll, provided it's within the ToU. Adding all kinds of weird rules to who can and can't get a dragon because people feel like things need to be in distribution is stupid.

 

Even acting like there's some kind of social obligation for people with rare dragons to stick around and keep breeding them is sketchy, in my mind.

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