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angelicdragonpuppy

One-time CB Pumpkin Unfreeze Option

When Pumpkins were first released and could not be bred, did you believe they would be obtainable again in the future?  

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My other consideration is, CB dragons may be especially valued by some of the userbase, but the game itself doesn't place any special value on them. As far as the game is concerned, a CB pumpkin is the same as a bred pumpkin. So I don't think allowing special privileges to CB dragons is a good precedent for the game to set. I think the game should remain neutral in that respect.

Good point. I've always been against the idea of the cave having "values" for lineage-related things. In-cave, CBs are exactly the same as bred dragons. The only difference is that bred dragons have parents shown on their page, and maybe other dragons on their "lineage" page. But In-cave does not distinguish between the "value" of a CB and the "value" of a bred, and it shouldn't start.

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While I realize that we've only got 30 votes in the 'people that were around during the Pumpkin release' department so far, if that trend stays the same as more people come in to vote, 66% of users were confused.

 

Don't think you think that's rather a lot--too many for it to have in any way been a clear assumption that Pumpkins would return again?

There are more people who were satisfied with their choice than who regret it, if you are counting stuff.

 

Just sayin'.

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It really doesn't matter what we knew or didn't know. We never get all the information, ever. Things change. New dragons are released, old dragons get BSAs or are discontinued. New permissions are granted. Next year there will be new information that changes what we would have done tomorrow. That's just the way it is.

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My other consideration is, CB dragons may be especially valued by some of the userbase, but the game itself doesn't place any special value on them. As far as the game is concerned, a CB pumpkin is the same as a bred pumpkin. So I don't think allowing special privileges to CB dragons is a good precedent for the game to set. I think the game should remain neutral in that respect.

The only reason it would be a CB-only unfreeze is because they were the only ones that could've been frozen due to false assumptions. That's the only reason they're getting a "special privilege"--because they were the only ones related to the issue.

 

Fuzz, if you're talking in terms of people who thought Pumpkins wouldn't come back, then they're beating the ones who wish to unfreeze by a grand total of... two people right now, which doesn't say much. If you're talking in general, then it's still about a third of the players at the time that would like a second chance, which is a minority, yes, but a pretty hefty minority, not no piddly 5%.

 

(This is all assuming, of course, that poll results continue to stay consistent)

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I was here for the pumpkin release. It was my second Halloween here. I was able to catch two of them and got one male and one female. I remember discussion at the time about them not having a breeding option, but it did not affect my decision on what to do with the hatchlings, since I never freeze dragons anyway.

 

I don't know what I would have done if I was a player who collects frozen hatchlings. So I really don't feel I can vote in this poll. None of the answers seems to apply to me. However, I do not believe I would think that TJ owed me the opportunity to unfreeze one if I had frozen a CB, regardless of the circumstances.

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When the Pumpkin Dragon came out, there was no limit to the number you were allowed. If you didn't catch the number you wanted for your scroll for the way you play there seems to be no reason to go back and say that you would have done something different if you had different information. Information here changes constantly. Things are not always announced, and sometimes no "official" word is ever given. If everyone who would have done something differently with "all" the information demanded to have things "fixed" for them, it would create endless demands.

I agree with your entire post, but I'm just quoting the bit that I find particularly true to how I feel myself. smile.gif

 

Users have to take *some* sort of responsibility for their actions. If you abandon an egg and then regret it, too bad, you made that decision. If you release an adult dragon and then regret it, too bad, it's the decision you made. If you freeze a hatchling, despite the multiple warnings about it being PERMANENT and IRREVERSIBLE, then you made that decision. It doesn't matter what the circumstances were, you still made the decision *knowing* that it couldn't be changed.

That's also very true. People who caught CB blacks and froze them when they were insanely common had no way to know that they'd be rare and desirable one day, but I bet they're regretting that decision now. Should they be allowed to unfreeze as well? They had no way of knowing that the rarity would change so dramatically and maybe they don't have an opportunity to catch more CBs since they have a slow internet connection or whatever.

 

I just think that if one exception is made and freezing becomes irreversible for one thing, it's going to open the flood gates and suddenly everyone will have a "reason" for needing to unfreeze something else. Even if you don't think it's a valid reason, I bet they would.

 

angelicdragonpuppy - this isn't real life, no, but there still have to be some rules and limitations to the game. If we could just do everything we wanted, collect all the eggs on our first day, including neglecteds, golds, hollies, etc. then we'd get bored and leave. I know that's an extreme example, but my point is that even games need stuff that sticks and remains constant, otherwise it loses its interest.

 

If TJ decides to do this, I'll stand corrected, but I really don't think it's something that would set a good precedent for the game as a whole. But that's just my opinion. xd.png Others clearly disagree.

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There was no precedent for Halloweens being able to breed offspring during future Halloween releases, and there were not any other pygmies in the cave at this point so it was treated like an unbreedable.

 

With the change in circumstances, yes, I think this is a reasonable request as a ONE TIME event. However, this event is restricted to CB pumpkins AND if you don't unfreeze your pumpkins during that event, you don't have another chance.

Wrong on several counts. First of all, in the holiday release post by TJ it was stated that the vampires - which were the Halloween dragons of the previous year - were being given the ability to reproduce with the Bite BSA. Second, the original pygmies - the yellowy-orange ones - were there already.

 

But you could still use the same reasoning for a lot of other things - like frozen frills or old pinks. When they were frozen, the players had no idea that they would be discontinued. And could we please have the old golds back? After all, nobody told us we'd get new golds when we got them. (Just kidding, I wub.gif the new golds!)

 

Anyway, with this kind of reasoning, you're opening up a big, fat can of slimy and wriggly worms.

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To add some half-serious remarks to what Olympe said:

 

1) I killed a fourth EG thuwed/dorkface purple with an earthquake in my second week...

I never did know that they really can kill dragons. I also did not know that this is something nice for many.

 

So - Please get it back because I simply did not know?

 

2) I have influenced my 8 cavern lurkers as pairs. For many breeding projects, this would be probably a bad idea. Can I please change gender for once?

 

3) Also, I have not been around for pumpkins, but i have a second gen. Can I please now get a -1 gen, once?

 

I believe that his idea is flawed in one of its base assumptions - that not knowing of the future would entitle you to change what you did in the past. If I buy a dog, I get a dog. If i then realise I'm allergic, I have to deal with it myself - I can't say XXX is responsible.

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when I joined in august of 09, I didn't have sufficient information to know that the funny coloured pink egs I was seeing in the AP would never be avaliable again. Does that mean that I get some on my scroll as compensation? No. Can they unfreeze their hatchies? nope.

 

By april 10, I had only been on the cave about 8 months. A large majority of players, me included, didn't know that frills were going to be discontinued, so they didn't have many. A different portion of players, me included, might not have been on the cave long enough to know about luineages. Does that mean we get to have some CB Frills, get our Frills' lineages wiped, or the chance to unfreeze THOSE hatchies? No.

 

So when some players jumped to conclusions and froze their CB Pumpkins when they didn't necessarily want to, (funny story, I have a frozen CB pumpkin too, the oldest frozen hatchie on my scroll in actual fact.) should they get a chance to change that? Unless the other things got a second chance too, no.

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While I understand the point of this poll, I don't think it will happen.

 

Personally, my only CB bright pink is frozen, and boy do I wish I could unfreeze her. I also froze a pair of CB black marrow hatchlings thinking that I would stop my halloween dragon collections at four each - two adults and two frozen - and now I wish I could unfreeze them. I also wish I had more bred even-gen frills, in addition to the CB's I collected, and had worked on my purebred frill project before they were discontinued.

 

That said, I've come to terms with the fact that my playing styles have changed and actions I took in line with past playing styles that don't fit with my current plans cannot be changed. The cave has also changed, and I can't go back with the knowledge I have now and change things later. I just can't.

 

So while I wish for a lot of things, I think that unfortunately things are going to stay as they are, and we just have to keep moving forward rather than worrying about the If only's and the I wish I had's.

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While I understand the point of this poll, I don't think it will happen.

 

Personally, my only CB bright pink is frozen, and boy do I wish I could unfreeze her. I also froze a pair of CB black marrow hatchlings thinking that I would stop my halloween dragon collections at four each - two adults and two frozen - and now I wish I could unfreeze them. I also wish I had more bred even-gen frills, in addition to the CB's I collected, and had worked on my purebred frill project before they were discontinued.

 

That said, I've come to terms with the fact that my playing styles have changed and actions I took in line with past playing styles that don't fit with my current plans cannot be changed. The cave has also changed, and I can't go back with the knowledge I have now and change things later. I just can't.

 

So while I wish for a lot of things, I think that unfortunately things are going to stay as they are, and we just have to keep moving forward rather than worrying about the If only's and the I wish I had's.

Well said. Hindsight's a wonderful thing but you can't live your life by it.

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While I understand the point of this poll, I don't think it will happen.

 

Personally, my only CB bright pink is frozen, and boy do I wish I could unfreeze her. I also froze a pair of CB black marrow hatchlings thinking that I would stop my halloween dragon collections at four each - two adults and two frozen - and now I wish I could unfreeze them. I also wish I had more bred even-gen frills, in addition to the CB's I collected, and had worked on my purebred frill project before they were discontinued.

 

That said, I've come to terms with the fact that my playing styles have changed and actions I took in line with past playing styles that don't fit with my current plans cannot be changed. The cave has also changed, and I can't go back with the knowledge I have now and change things later. I just can't.

 

So while I wish for a lot of things, I think that unfortunately things are going to stay as they are, and we just have to keep moving forward rather than worrying about the If only's and the I wish I had's.

This exactly. I could give examples proving the same thing but it would be redundant and I can't be bothered. Basically, this kind of regret can apply to many situations. I didn't know CB dragons would be so important, and I collected horribly messy eggs. I never got a CB old pink when I could have so easily ! etc etc. You can't apply today's standards to the way we played then.

 

Also, as someone else pointed out, this game fundamentally does not value CBs over bred eggs. It is us users who have placed such emphasis on dragons being CB. Why would TJ place CBs above other dragons and allow users to unfreeze CB hatchlings ? And knowing how he has dealt with things in the past, I can't imagine he will allow this (and I quite agree with him). Too much trouble for too little.

 

Yes, one of my 3 CB pumpkins is frozen. Had I known, I would not have frozen it. Too bad ! Things have changed, and for the better in my opinion ; I'm not going to whine about that. Anyway our scrolls will never be absolutely perfect, and it's just good practice for life to let go of what we can't control.

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If there was ever a good argument for an unfreeze, I think your suggestion would be the one I would get behind. That being said, I am firmly into the no exceptions on this policy ever camp.

 

And it has nothing to do with TJ and his rules and if we open one exception there will be a flood of new whines even though this question always gets the same answer. Well, maybe that's a little bit of it.

 

My biggest objection is that on the trading market, CB Holidays have a much higher value than non CB Holidays. Which means whether its a breeding or IOU or Lineage request, we are going to backdate and suddenly allow people who already have rich and impressive scrolls to be richer. Cause if you have been playing since they were released, you probably have a scroll full of valuable dragons already. Its the rarity and the CB players value, not the game. And since dragons and lineages are our form of currency, the people this would impact, on balance, are already pretty rich. And I'm supposed to support making them richer?

 

I understand there are tons of generous people who freely give away amazing dragons. Just because they are willing to share their riches doesn't mean they are any less rich and this would create a large truck of gold backing up to dump some more gold bars into their bank accounts.

 

So if someone is going to get a large wealth increase, you should have a tax to offset it. Since freezing is a permanent spell, and you want the magic spell to undo it, all magic comes at a price. And I think that price should be the loss of your freezing spell for an entire year.

 

We were confused is not good enough. What price are you willing to pay or give up for this one time exception that no one else gets. Tell me what you are willing to sacrifice for this exception to this set in plutonium rule?

 

Add that to your suggestion and I would get behind it.

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We were confused is not good enough. What price are you willing to pay or give up for this one time exception that no one else gets. Tell me what you are willing to sacrifice for this exception to this set in plutonium rule?

 

Add that to your suggestion and I would get behind it.

I would say that all Pumpkins that were unfrozen would automatically send everything they bred for that year's Halloween to the AP, which would give everyone else something nice, too (heck, maybe to prevent misers from refusing to breed at all that year, the cave could even force you to be 'stuck' to the breeding page for that Pumpkin as soon as it was unfrozen, forcing you to breed before you could move on or otherwise lose your ability to do anything all Halloween? THAT'D make people breed). This'd be laid out in the unfreezing event description, and stated quite clearly again when you actually went to hit the unfreeze button, so no one could wail about being uninformed about the terms (or, well, they COULD wail, but no one would much care, haha).

 

I guess some misers would intentionally breed to nasty lineaged pygmies out of spite, but I think most older players are pretty generous. I know I was chucking out free 2nd gen Pumpkins this year, and if I had to do it to unfreeze a CB Pumpkin, then I'd have even more reason to breed some nice Pumpkins, haha.

 

'Course, a suggestion like that is liable to cause even more outrage than the unfreezing suggestion already has. l'D

Edited by angelicdragonpuppy

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'Course, a suggestion like that is liable to cause even more outrage than the unfreezing suggestion already has. l'D
Afraid so. What about being allowed to play the way you want to play?

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Personally... I'm inclined to say no to this idea.

 

I would be more sympathetic to it if it was more an issue of the good of the game and players as a whole, with there not being enough Pumpkins around, or pretty much only long, messy ones. (As with the Hollies becoming close to extinct for a while here, and therefore more CBs being given out as prizes.)

 

However, as it is, I did not see a particular shortage of Pumpkins. Yes, they were tricky to catch in the AP, as are all holidays. But when it came to trading or gifting on forums, nice lined ones seemed to me to be in abundance. In fact, there were so many around, compared to the people interested in trading for them, that I ended up simply abandoning all this year's Pumpkin eggs to the AP, rather than persist in trying to get trades for them.

 

So - I don't see a "for the good of the game" element in play. On a personal level, I myself was only able to get one CB because I was gone most of the day. Do I wish I could've gotten more? Yes. And there are lots of decisions I regret now, which I would've made differently if I had known more about what would happen.

 

When I first started out, I intentionally picked up eggs from the AP even when they were readily available in the cave, to help clear things out. I didn't know that it'd be possible to view lineages in the future, so I didn't care about them. I also didn't know that Bright Pinks weren't going to always be crazy-common cave blockers. So, my only CB Bright Pink is... my frozen hatchling. I also, as a result, wasn't able to get any CB Blacks until comparatively recently.

 

Both are things I've kicked myself over, and very much regret, but... they were the choices I made at the time, and now I need to live with them. Yeah, there are some cases where it's illogical not to change a game to better suit the players. But there are many other cases where it's illogical to ask that things be changed in order to protect everyone from needing to accept the choices they make.

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Both are things I've kicked myself over, and very much regret, but... they were the choices I made at the time, and now I need to live with them. Yeah, there are some cases where it's illogical not to change a game to better suit the players. But there are many other cases where it's illogical to ask that things be changed in order to protect everyone from needing to accept the choices they make.

Yes, yes, yes Yes!

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Add me to the No list.

 

This doesn't address a genuine need. There's no shortage of Pumpkin dragons that requires us to unfreeze hatchlings so they can grow up and keep the breed alive. There's not even a shortage of CB adults out there.

 

This boils down to some people being disappointed that they don't have any/many CB adults on their scrolls. That's no more deserving of a magic fix than the people who didn't grab an Old Pink/Frill because they incorrectly assumed they'd have all the time in the world--less so, even, because Pumpkins are still available, even if you have to suck it up and deal with a bred baby.

 

You made a choice based on an assumption. We've all done it, we all have our regrets, but that doesn't mean it needs fixed.

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I get the idea behind this, I truly do. It sucks that people didn't know, froze dragons, and now have the live with that decision when they didn't know what was going to happen in the future.

 

But like other people have said... I only have one CB bright pink. I only have one CB frill (and no children from it!). Last year I had to get rid of a cb hatchie Val '09, because I froze it not realising how valuable descendants would be in the future.

 

I couldn't predict any of those - I didn't have the information at the time. But I think it would be absolutely unfair to start off this precedent for 'I didn't have the information at the time, so I'd like to do ______, please'. If TJ changes something a year from now that I can't anticipate today, should I be able to request that something be backdated then? What about in two years, or ten?

 

Tbh, I also have the question of... Why now? Pumpkins have been breedable for...three years now, right? This seems to be backdating quite a bit. I mean, I suppose in terms of the request I guess it's neither here nor there, but it seems to be looking back quite far.

 

Games change, and there's always going to be the facet of 'if I had known this, I wouldn't/would have done ____,". That's part of of what makes games interesting to play.

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