One-time CB Pumpkin Unfreeze Option

[angelicdragonpuppy]

EDIT: This thread is being closed because, as TJ09 posted here, he will not be making exceptions to the 'rule' of freezing being permanent. There are now discussions on if freezing should be permanent or not for all cases, instead.

 

~

 

*Puts on hard hat*

 

Hello, everyone! I know that unfreezing suggestions aren't generally allowed, but I believe asking for one in this case is justified.

 

Back when Pumpkins were first released, they couldn't breed, even though the Pygmy breed existed. As such, many people believed that there would never ever be a way to obtain them again, and froze precious CBs on that belief, thinking it was the only way the hatchling sprite could ever be collected.

 

As we all know, that is no longer the case. As such, I'm proposing a one time unfreezing event ONLY for CB Pumpkins (probably as part of next year's Halloween events, so no one misses the date?), as those were the only ones that could have been frozen under a wrongful assumption. Unfrozen hatchlings would instantly become adults and thus could NOT be traded.

Edited December 23, 2016 by SockPuppet Strangler

[Pokemonfan13]

Since it's fresh if there's any wording changes you'd like to be made to the poll [based on your red message] I could do that for you.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Ah, thank you kindly, PF! Could you please change this:

 

I was around and DIDN'T think Pumpkins would be obtainable again, and froze dragons I would not have frozen otherwise

 

to this?

 

I was around and DIDN'T think Pumpkins would be obtainable again, and accordingly froze CB Pumpkins that I now wish I could unfreeze

[Wookieinmashoo]

I was on hiatus when the pumpkins were released, so this doesn't apply to me, but wouldn't the same situation apply for people who caught vampires too? Also with a boosted Holiday limit (for Christmas and Valentines) I can see this being a valid argument if that were to happen for those holidays.

 

The two situations are a little different though. We have been told that Valentines day and Christmas will always be limited to two, so people froze them. The vampire dragon had been released before the pumpkin though. A dragon that was previously completely unbreedable had gained an option to make its own kind the year the pumpkins were released. There was also talk (after I had come back to DC) throughout the rest of the year of pumpkins possibly breeding with pygmies. Because of that and the vampire situation, if I had been on DC, I would have believed the pumpkins be breedable the next halloween.

 

My thoughts don't apply though since I was not there to collect CB pumpkins at all and my thoughts may have been different on the spot, so I just voted "I wasn't there".

[Pokemonfan13]

Done. =3

[angelicdragonpuppy]

The difference with vampires, Wookie, is that CBs could still be obtained once biting was implemented. The cave didn't start keeping track of bite 'lineage' for quite some time, so people who froze Vampires thinking they'd never return again still got a chance to more or less mend the situation. I suppose you could say that the delayed release of the ability of Vampires to bite would suggest that Pumpkins would have a way to reproduce in the future, BUT, if the poll results in the first version of this thread were any indication of the broader trend, a lot of people still didn't think Pumpkins would return just because the Vampires did.

 

Thank you, PF!

Edited November 25, 2012 by angelicdragonpuppy

[Amazon_warrior]

Hrmm.... I chose option 4 as being the closest to my opinion, though it doesn't quite cover it. The Pumpkin release was my first ever holiday release on DC, so while I had no reason to assume Pumpkins would be available again, I also had no reason *not* to assume they would be either. (Did that make sense? I need more coffee!) Not to mention, I'd already semi-formulated my no-freeze policy for CB Holidays, so I let the three CB Pumpkins I caught grow to maturity - I just wish I'd tried to grab just one more CB from the AP afterwards! *is a bit OCD about having even numbers of things* I don't ever freeze Christmas and Valentine dragons and I only freeze bred Halloweens (2nd gen for preference), so this is a non-issue for me. I guess it's no skin off my nose if CB Pumpkins could be unfrozen, though. *shrugs*

[_Z_]

I don't even breed all of mine. We have so many going to the AP, it doesn't seem necessary.

[olympe]

Why not? Pumpkins were the hardest to get of all the Halloweens (if you don't count vamps), and they never (in my AP-hunting experience this year) stayed for more than one refresh.

 

That being said, when freezing you are told that this is irreversible, aren't you? I think that that's what TJ always used as a reason to reject any suggestions involving unfreezing.

Edited November 25, 2012 by olympe

[angelicdragonpuppy]

I don't even breed all of mine. We have so many going to the AP, it doesn't seem necessary.

If a lot of people were confused, and a lot of people miss those CB Pumpkins, does it matter if it's necessary? As long as it's not too hard to code...

 

@Olympe: yes, that's true--but it's also true that in this case a lot of people made that permanent choice based on a very confusing situation. We don't have a ton of votes right now, I know, but if these ratios hold steady over half of those playing at the time were confused--and half of those ones made a choice they wouldn't have made if it had been clearer what the future held (or if Pumpkins had been breedable from the start ;; ). Thus, again, I think this is a unique case where a one-time unfreeze option is acceptable.

Edited November 25, 2012 by angelicdragonpuppy

[StormWizard212]

I dunno... I think if we're allowed to unfreeze pumpkins, then people are automatically going to demand that they be able to unfreeze everything else. It might not make sense, but it'll happen. I personally think it's a can of worms that should stay sealed. I don't particularly want to see any kind of unfreezing, otherwise it kind of contradicts the whole 'permanent' nature of it to begin with.

[Sundew]

As a one-time thing I can't see too much harm in this. StormWizard does make a good point though. Since it's only a small percentage of hatchlings that would be unfrozen, and it's only an option for older members who were around to catch CB Pumpkins, newer members are definitely going to want to unfreeze a few of their own. It's very unlikely that they'll ever be able to, but it could just clog up the Suggestions forum with a lot of improbable requests. ;-;

[RainDear]

This game is a game of surprise and compromise. From the first egg you catch knowing only the egg description, the basis of the game is learn as you go. Unless you go to the Wiki or immediately join the forums, you don't know what you caught til the egg hatches and grows up.

 

You generally don't know when new things will be introduced or what they will be. We had heard that renaming our dragons would be possible a long time before it happened. I had a dragon that I had accidentally given a name I intended for another dragon and waited for renaming for what I considered to be a long time until the day I killed the misnamed dragon to give the name to the intended dragon. A week later, renaming came out.

 

TJ doesn't announce everything. Many were shocked when Vampire repulses proved to be uncatchable by use of their codes. There was no announcement.

 

When the Pumpkin Dragon came out, there was no limit to the number you were allowed. If you didn't catch the number you wanted for your scroll for the way you play there seems to be no reason to go back and say that you would have done something different if you had different information. Information here changes constantly. Things are not always announced, and sometimes no "official" word is ever given. If everyone who would have done something differently with "all" the information demanded to have things "fixed" for them, it would create endless demands.

 

[olympe]

Too true. If only I had known that the pumpkin release was for one day only, I would have tried to catch them until I had my four. (I was very new then, my first dragon was less than two weeks old.) So, can I please have four CB pumpkins, please, because I acted on information I didn't have then? (I wasn't on the forums, either, so I didn't check the News announcement.)

 

And, yes, I was just kidding. I don't expect four magical CB pumpkins to pop up on my scroll.

[Fuzzbucket]

Too true. If only I had known that the pumpkin release was for one day only, I would have tried to catch them until I had my four. (I was very new then, my first dragon was less than two weeks old.) So, can I please have four CB pumpkins, please, because I acted on information I didn't have then? (I wasn't on the forums, either, so I didn't check the News announcement.)

 

And, yes, I was just kidding. I don't expect four magical CB pumpkins to pop up on my scroll.

Oh yes - I wasn't here that year and I didn't even know DRAGONS existed, so I'd like a pair of old pinks, and a male CB frill as well as four CB pumpkins. And CBs of past Christmases I didn't know about, too.

 

Thanks a lot

[angelicdragonpuppy]

:/

 

You're both making comparisons to things that aren't comparable at all. As the poll shows, many people here were confused and there was no WAY they could have informed themselves about the future no matter how hard they looked. While the fact that Pumpkins were limited was pretty easy to tell by looking around the forums. As for Frills and Old Pinks, if you WERE playing, you would've been given ample time to stock up. There was no such info about the future of Pumpkins.

 

I'm not declaring an open season on unfreezing. I'm not asking for discontinued dragons to be handed out. I'm asking for a one time special second chance for an event that has remained unique throughout more than four years of this game existing.

 

If TJ wants to shut this down because he thinks unfreezing shouldn't happen for one very special case, then that's that. But trying to tear this down by making it sound like it'll lead to unfreezing on a daily basis and people being sprinkled with CB Frills is ridiculous.

Edited November 25, 2012 by angelicdragonpuppy

[HeatherMarie]

I stand by what I said earlier, and voted accordingly.

 

It doesn't matter what happened with the Pumpkins. It really doesn't. I know you think it matters and is a "special" circumstance, but in DragonCave reality, it doesn't matter.

 

Freezing is permanent. No matter what the circumstances. Freezing was permanent back when we thought Frills and old pinks would be around forever. Freezing was permanent when we thought Vamps wouldn't be breedable in any way.

 

Users have to take *some* sort of responsibility for their actions. If you abandon an egg and then regret it, too bad, you made that decision. If you release an adult dragon and then regret it, too bad, it's the decision you made. If you freeze a hatchling, despite the multiple warnings about it being PERMANENT and IRREVERSIBLE, then you made that decision. It doesn't matter what the circumstances were, you still made the decision *knowing* that it couldn't be changed.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

This isn't the real world. This is a game. Everything is only as permanent as TJ wishes it to be. Is it overly important that there be a chance to unfreeze CB Pumpkins? No. But would it be nice if TJ let us do so, especially if the poll continues to show that a third of the people playing at the time made a choice they wouldn't have made if the Pumpkin's futures had been made more clear? Yes.

 

I've made some dumb choices in this game. I've frozen 2nd gen Metals. I decided to spend the first year of my being here breeding a CB Silver to an ugly lineaged mate and now have a ton of nasty Silvers on my scroll that could've been beautiful 2nd gens. But I'm not asking for those things to be changed, because there was enough information at the time for me to have known better and I didn't bother to take it. I'm fully responsible. However, in the case of the Pumpkins, the terms were neither fully clear nor accessible. I don't think it's fair to force people to suck it up and be stuck with decisions they made to fit a different set of rules--in this case, the belief that sacrificing CB Pumpkins was the only way to ever have frozen ones.

Edited November 25, 2012 by angelicdragonpuppy

[PhoenixStarr]

I, personally, only managed to catch one CB pumpkin, and let it grow to adulthood, but I see exactly why this is a reasonable request. There was no precedent for Halloweens being able to breed offspring during future Halloween releases, and there were not any other pygmies in the cave at this point so it was treated like an unbreedable.

 

With the change in circumstances, yes, I think this is a reasonable request as a ONE TIME event. However, this event is restricted to CB pumpkins AND if you don't unfreeze your pumpkins during that event, you don't have another chance.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

I, personally, only managed to catch one CB pumpkin, and let it grow to adulthood, but I see exactly why this is a reasonable request. There was no precedent for Halloweens being able to breed offspring during future Halloween releases, and there were not any other pygmies in the cave at this point so it was treated like an unbreedable.

 

With the change in circumstances, yes, I think this is a reasonable request as a ONE TIME event. However, this event is restricted to CB pumpkins AND if you don't unfreeze your pumpkins during that event, you don't have another chance.

Thank you! ^^

 

However, I would like to point out one thing--there were original Pygmies around at the time, not to mention male and female Pumpkins--and yet they still couldn't breed. Which made it all that more logical to believe they would never be breedable, if they couldn't even breed with other small dragons or their own kind. ;___;

[SkylerFarrier]

I wasn't around for when the Pygmies were released, so my opinion on whether or not unfreezing is a good idea probably isn't relevant.

HOWEVER

The methods that were suggested sound good - only CBs can be unfrozen (ensuring that this is only for those present at the release), they instantly mature (preventing trading), and is only an option for one day (you miss it, tough luck).

[PhoenixStarr]

Thank you! ^^

 

However, I would like to point out one thing--there were original Pygmies around at the time, not to mention male and female Pumpkins--and yet they still couldn't breed. Which made it all that more logical to believe they would never be breedable, if they couldn't even breed with other small dragons or their own kind. ;___;

My mistake. For some reason I thought the pygmies were released later.

[PointOfOrigin]

I wasn't there at the time, but as far as I know an idea to breed them with pygmies was sudden and after an artist allowed it implemented. That sounds like breeding at the time of their release wasn't really intended or worked out.

 

So, yes from me.

[codyne]

I am not really in favor of this, even though it wouldn't affect me personally -- I don't freeze dragons anyway.

 

My personal experience with the pumpkin release was that I'd been playing since the beginning of the year, and was only familiar with the previous Christmas (wasn't playing myself but a lot of my friends were, and I saw them catching and growing Yulebucks) and Valentine's Day releases. (Didn't catch any CBs of either of those holidays, although now I really wish I had.)

 

So when Halloween came along, I believed, based on my past experience with event releases, that they were limited to 2 per scroll like the other holidays and only caught 2. I realized before the event was over that I could have more, but I was scroll-locked and didn't want to drop my other eggs so I ended up with only 2 CBs, one male and one female. Oh well! My assumptions were wrong, but that's the way it goes and now I have to live with it.

 

As for being able to get more pumpkins next year, my experience was also that previous holiday releases were always available by breeding (or biting, with the vampires), so I assumed that next year the pumpkins would be able to breed with each other, even though they might be "unbreedable" during the rest of the year.

 

So, I don't really see that we were "led to believe" that pumpkins would never be obtainable again. There was no official statement from TJ whether pumpkins would be breedable the following year or not. It was all speculation based on assumptions from past experiences, which we should all know aren't necessarily right.

 

My other consideration is, CB dragons may be especially valued by some of the userbase, but the game itself doesn't place any special value on them. As far as the game is concerned, a CB pumpkin is the same as a bred pumpkin. So I don't think allowing special privileges to CB dragons is a good precedent for the game to set. I think the game should remain neutral in that respect.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

So, I don't really see that we were "led to believe" that pumpkins would never be obtainable again. There was no official statement from TJ whether pumpkins would be breedable the following year or not. It was all speculation based on assumptions from past experiences, which we should all know aren't necessarily right.

While I realize that we've only got 30 votes in the 'people that were around during the Pumpkin release' department so far, if that trend stays the same as more people come in to vote, 66% of users were confused.

 

Don't think you think that's rather a lot--too many for it to have in any way been a clear assumption that Pumpkins would return again?