DC Gold

[Dolphinsong]

Also, we try to avoid being like the other sites. We're not Magistream, nor Neopets, or even ChickenSmoothie. We have no need for currency, eggs and hatchlings are currency enough as it is right now.

[Haloclimb]

No thanks, I can't see it adding anything other than frustration. The awful economy was one of the main reasons I left Magistream (as much as I loved the pets and the quests, I couldn't afford ANYTHING without spending a day clicking and lagging my computer to heck and back) and I can only see the same thing happening here.

We have enough of a problem trying to regulate cave blockers, adding an economy on top of that would just make things even harder. Besides, DC is the type of game people go to when they're sick of having to buy pets/items/whatever in other sites.

I, for one, like being able to just come online, grab some eggs or breed some and then stick them in an incubator and sit back. I don't want to have to come online and then go play some games, or go clicking a whole bunch of creatures, or go posting around in forums to get some virtual money to THEN be allowed to get some virtual pets.

 

EDIT: Also, KageSora has a point. Go on pretty much ANY pet site with money or cash or whatever and you'll find that most of the players are multi-millionaires, and if you want to get anything decent YOU need to be a multi-millionaire as well. It's like that on Wajas, on Rescreatu, on Aramii, and on Valenth, and it's heading that way on Magistream, Khimeros, Felisfire and pretty much every other new site with currency. The only times that there ISN'T massive inflation is when it's virtual money from real money, like on Chicken Smoothie. But for obvious reasons, thats an instant no-no for this site (and for good reason!)

 

Edited November 3, 2012 by Haloclimb

[KageSora]

Nope. The reason why humans moved from the bartering system to currency was because a standard form of money was easier than the following:

A wants bread and has an apple.

B wants an apple and has an egg.

C wants an egg and has bread.

A gives B the apple so B can give C the egg and C can give A the bread.

(If your head's already spinning, this wasn't that complicated back then.)

 

Currency is an always available form of money that can be saved up, unlike dragons.

 

Nothing's to stop people from charging that. They just might not get offers.

This only would work, though, if we had an official system for valuing eggs.

 

As it is trades can be complicated because people place such differing values on dragons.

 

Currency won't change that, it'll simply be a different flavor of the "economy" that we already have.

 

You'll still get the people charging insane prices for the same eggs other people are charging about half as much for.

 

 

 

EDIT: Though a max cap per profile of the amount of gold you could have would be an interesting idea... That would keep people from hoarding obscene amounts of it.

 

 

But, as others have said, unless that gold has some other sort of use there's no real point to it. WHAT makes it desirable? With dragons, you have a few reasons they're nice.

 

If you can't find a trade, you at least can raise it and it will contribute to the ratios. Or you could keep it and it could become breeding stock to help you with future trades.

 

With gold, if you can't find anybody willing to accept gold for the dragons you want, you're just going to end up sitting on it and it won't help you get the dragons you want at all.

 

 

What use is there to have a currency if the people you want to buy from refuse to accept that currency?

Edited November 3, 2012 by KageSora

[RheaZen]

This only would work, though, if we had an official system for valuing eggs.

 

As it is trades can be complicated because people place such differing values on dragons.

 

Currency won't change that, it'll simply be a different flavor of the "economy" that we already have.

 

You'll still get the people charging insane prices for the same eggs other people are charging about half as much for.

But then you just don't buy the overpriced eggs. No one's forcing you to buy them.

[annageckos]

I am neutral on this. I like the game the way it is, but change isn't aways a bad thing either. I like and play magistream. I was able to easily get about half a million gold in four or five days, which is actually part of the problem there. If implemented here a currency could be good. I don't know what the best way to add it to the game. It seems like some people here are just resistant to change, any change.

[Pokemonfan13]

I'm not a fan. To me it makes it too much like Neopets. If nothing else there would have to be some sort of item system if currency is going to work.

 

With an economy you need to have roughly the same amount of currency per person circulating over time [so the total amount of currency can increase if more people join] or else you have inflation or deflation of the value of the currency. So in order to be able to "earn" currency from the site you also need a way to give the currency back to the site, the easiest way to do that is a shop of some sort with items that are useful [or no reason to buy them]. But with no feeding, no illnesses that can only be cured by a potion, no weapons/armor, and no other petsite things, what exactly would be so tempting that you'd give your currency back to the site instead of "buying" a CB gold off someone else?? So just to make the items tempting enough some petsite style things would have to be introduced just to give you something to spend your currency on.

 

The only other way to work it is a closed economy where each user is given, say, 200 currency when they join. This would be more stable overall, but would require occasional drains [for example each newbie spends their 200 currency immediately and a decent percentage leave with 0 or close to 0 left, this will eventually result in a surplus of currency per person and some needs to be taken away to prevent the currency from being worth less] or infusions [pretend the newbie example given above doesn't happen or isn't significant. Over time older player with good catching skills rake in the currency but eventually get bored with DC and leave, trapping their currency on dead accounts. This causes a lower per person amount of currency and more needs to be introduced to prevent the currency from being worth more].

 

Also, adding an economy and the prerequisites of an economy [items in the case of being able to "earn" currency] would change DC significantly. The way it is now is simple and easy. I find it difficult to imagine a way to introduce this that wouldn't essentially force people to use it. It could be very difficult to exchange egg for egg because dealing in currency is easier The other problem is to make the items needed to balance the economy enticing enough to buy with currency they'd need to be powerful/useful enough that people who don't like the new economy would still feel the need to purchase them.

 

TLDR: Economies are tricky things and need more than dragon trading to make them work and require a decent amount of maintenance to keep prices stable. DC would also be irrevocably changed to being more like a petsite. And it would be very difficult, if not impossible, to set it up to allow people to avoid the currency. After all, if you can "trade" your CB black for 50 currency and then spend that currency on the CB stripe you want in 10 minutes you're not going to spend the 6 hours it takes to find someone with a CB stripe that wants a CB black, making it very difficult if not impossible to trade eggs for eggs.

Edited November 3, 2012 by Pokemonfan13

[Haloclimb]

But then you just don't buy the overpriced eggs. No one's forcing you to buy them.

And then everyone overprices their eggs because 'thats the market price' and suddenly you don't have a choice but to buy then.

[KageSora]

But then you just don't buy the overpriced eggs. No one's forcing you to buy them.

Same can be said with trading--just don't trade for the overpriced eggs.

 

I just don't see how it'll really change things too much. Especially if, say, the egg you want you can't find anybody offering for a price you can afford. Then you're in the exact same boat as you were with being unable to catch the dragons they were requesting.

[pinkieseb]

I'd say YES- if there was a profile gold limit.

 

But then NO, if there wasnt.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

I think the major problem with currency is: how would prices be set? What if no one wanted to trade dragons for gold because they couldn't be sure others would accept that gold for something THEY wanted? And last but not least, how would gold be obtained?

 

The idea of some type of in-game currency has occurred to me before (especially during those annoying times when I'm trying to trade with person X for something I don't want to give it to person Z for the thing I DO want!), but I'm just not sure it'd work out as nicely as hoped for. I mean, what if someone gave me a large sum of gold for a 2nd gen Silver--and then everyone I tried to give the gold to for their dragons didn't want to take it because they couldn't be sure of being able to use it later on for something they wanted? I'd feel pretty lousy if I ended up with no nice Silver and a bunch of currency that got me nowhere. ;____;

 

So yah, I understand the point you're making, but I'm just not sure I can trust it to work here. It might take a painfully long time for me to track down someone willing to trade me what I want for a 2nd gen Metal, but I'd rather do that and get a DEFINITE return of something I want then take money and perhaps never find someone willing to accept it! :C

Edited November 3, 2012 by angelicdragonpuppy

[Sextonator]

I say no. I don't think it'd work with DC, because it can create a rift in the community between poor players and rich players. Plus I think it takes us one step closer to being a pet site. :/ I just think it's a bad idea.

 

Also I'm a little biased, since you mentioned Magistream. I just... I really hate their admin for personal reasons. Hate his freaking guts.

[RheaZen]

And then everyone overprices their eggs because 'thats the market price' and suddenly you don't have a choice but to buy then.

And then suddenly no one is buying eggs because they don't have the gold so prices go back down.

[Ashes The Second]

Nope. The reason why humans moved from the bartering system to currency was because a standard form of money was easier than the following:

A wants bread and has an apple.

B wants an apple and has an egg.

C wants an egg and has bread.

A gives B the apple so B can give C the egg and C can give A the bread.

(If your head's already spinning, this wasn't that complicated back then.)

 

Currency is an always available form of money that can be saved up, unlike dragons.

 

Nothing's to stop people from charging that. They just might not get offers.

Then what about the fact that, in all honesty, people really do not like currency for a game as simple as this? I see you get offended when people shoot down your ideas, but you're not taking new ideas and considering this game with them, you're taking new ideas and shoving them onto this game when they really have no way of working. And also, where would we obtain this currency? I cannot foresee the dragons in the main cave giving /any/ gold up. And also, why exactly would we need currency to trade for a dragon egg when the system we have now is perfect? And what about what currency is worth? How much of it do you need to to get a certain egg? Things are shaky enough as it is via player demand systems.

[Dolphinsong]

Do remember people, the value of eggs/hatchlings (doesn't matter if bred or CB) are all PLAYER based. Its different for EVERY player. To me, a CB white would be worth more than a 2nd gen white because I perfer having only CB adults, but others may value a generation white that has all holiday dragon sprites as part of its lineage more than a CB. You cannot force people to pay a high price for something THEY consider as worthless.

 

I recall TJ stating there is no real rarity setting incave, it is mostly player based that causes something to be more rare than something else.

[Ashes The Second]

Do remember people, the value of eggs/hatchlings (doesn't matter if bred or CB) are all PLAYER based. Its different for EVERY player. To me, a CB white would be worth more than a 2nd gen white because I perfer having only CB adults, but others may value a generation white that has all holiday dragon sprites as part of its lineage more than a CB. You cannot force people to pay a high price for something THEY consider as worthless.

 

I recall TJ stating there is no real rarity setting incave, it is mostly player based that causes something to be more rare than something else.

That's my point. So how would currency even work? There would have to be a set number SOMEWHERE, or else the demand would make a lot of nonrich players just pack up and leave, me included.

[Haloclimb]

And then suddenly no one is buying eggs because they don't have the gold so prices go back down.

And then people stop selling them because no one is buying. Or if it's an egg in demand, it just means only the richest players can afford to buy it.

 

I don't know, I'd just rather have no economy at all rather than one that is constantly fluctuating between way too expensive and way too cheap.

 

Plus, how do you decide the worth of lineaged eggs? Sure, if all we were selling were CB eggs you could slap one price on it and your good to go. But what about when someones selling a 3 day egg compared to a 6 day egg? Or an ER hatchling to a just-hatched one? Would a 2nd Gen Vine be worth more or less than a 16th gen stairstep VinexBlack? What about if it's got a funny code?

I think it'd just be open to too much abuse to do anything other than hinder trading, tbh.

[KageSora]

I'd feel pretty lousy if I ended up with no nice Silver and a bunch of currency that got me nowhere. ;____;

This would be my issue.

 

With dragon trading, I have a few options.

 

If I happen across an egg I have no desire or use for, I can gift it or pitch it. I could also attempt to "trade up" for something I would like/have a need/use for. If this fails and I just get rid of it, I haven't lost anything because I didn't spend anything in the first place--I was just attempting to make use of something I came across.

 

If I happen to have an egg I like that I could have a desire/need for, I could keep it. Or, I could attempt to trade up for something that I like better/I need/desire more. If the trade is successful, I now have a dragon that I prefer. If I cannot find a trade that suits me, I still haven't lost anything because the dragon was already somewhat desirable to me. Perhaps now I can use it as breeding stock to attempt to produce new things to trade up for in the future.

 

 

Now, add currency in there.

 

In the first situation, suppose I sell the egg off. I haven't lost anything of value because I didn't have a need/desire for the egg in the first place. Perhaps I came out better since now I have gold I could theoretically use to buy something I prefer. However, if I am unable to find a dragon I like that is for sale, I still have not lost anything as I was not likely going to keep the dragon I offered in the first place anyway.

 

In the second situation, suppose I find a buyer for a decent bit of gold. Now I have gold that I can use to purchase something that is more to my tastes than my previous dragon. No loss to me yet. However, if I cannot find a dragon for sale that is more to my tastes than the one I had originally, I'm now at a loss. If I had kept the egg instead of selling it, I still kept something I enjoyed and have the potential to get something of value from it down the line. If I sell it, I now run the risk of having absolutely worthless currency (unless petsite features were added as goldsinks, which I would detest), and have given up something I liked and could have potentially profited from down the line.

 

 

 

I'm a rather risk-wary person. I'll take risks if I believe the potential gain outweighs potential losses enough, but I evaluate those carefully before taking a risk. And generally speaking, if I'm not fairly certain I can benefit from it, I'll avoid a risk even if it means potentially settling for less. I prefer to have less but be happy enough with it than to risk having nothing and being unhappy with it for the chance to have a lot more and be happier.

 

I guess, I prefer to be a bit less happy rather than risking being upset if I fail to be very happy.

 

So, I would more likely reject gold-based offers unless they were REALLY good and I could be fairly sure somebody who had something I liked would accept gold for it.

 

Clearly I'm not the only one who would feel this way. Having consumer confidence be too low is dangerous for the system, but unless there was a reason to have the gold beyond "somebody MIGHT be willing to part with something I like for it", then I don't know how you'd boost the confidence in the economy.

 

 

tl;dr: If I trade an egg for an egg I like better that I try to trade for a better egg still, I don't lose anything if I end up not finding a second trade. However, if I sell an egg I like for money to buy an egg I like better, I end up potentially losing out if I cannot find a seller with something I like.

 

So, people like me would be wary of accepting gold trades, and it makes it more complicated and riskier.

[stogucheme]

Everyone: It'd probably have a profile cap and a trading cap. For example, 200g per scroll, with 10g tops being allowed to trade per transaction. (So if you had multiple transactions, you could trade it all, but per each it can't be greater than 10g.)

 

I see you get offended when people shoot down your ideas, but you're not taking new ideas and considering this game with them, you're taking new ideas and shoving them onto this game when they really have no way of working.

Ignoring the personal attack that has no business in this thread, I do consider it. I find people complaining about not being able to get what they want. It's why we have all the "unblock the cave!" threads. It's also why I'm always suggesting things. To make the game better- for everyone.

 

And also, why exactly would we need currency to trade for a dragon egg when the system we have now is perfect?

The current system cannot meet a lot of player's demands. Just because it works for you, doesn't mean it works for others.

 

@KageSora: First, eventually you should be able to buy most things for Gold. Second, you don't have to accept Gold.

 

Oh! Also! If you couldn't find a trader- only a buyer- for it anyway, well.

Edited November 3, 2012 by stogucheme

[demonicvampiregirl]

No way. This game is working fine the way it is adding money in will just ruin it for me and others. I like gifting out eggs when I can get them and don't want to have to spend money to get others I can easily trade for or work to get myself. I don't see this benefiting the game at all. Plus it would turn it into a pet site just minus having to feed the dragons.

[Ashes The Second]

Everyone: It'd probably have a profile cap and a trading cap. For example, 200g per scroll, with 10g tops being allowed to trade per transaction. (So if you had multiple transactions, you could trade it all, but per each it can't be greater than 10g.)

 

 

The current system cannot meet a lot of player's demands. Just because it works for you, doesn't mean it works for others.

I find it funny you only quoted me, perhaps you should address the other queries in the thread instead of mine because I stated something you plainly said in your signature a while back. :3. If you think about it, it's not messed up at all, the way eggs are skewed between each player is messed up, but I don't dip my fingers into the trade threads but once every blue moon. That's the point of player-to-player trading, not player-to-bot trading. We make the demands known, and they fluctuate between what we want vs what is popular. If I wanted, say, 50 more spitfires, I'd have no problem trading for them because they're a common species now. Were they when they were first released? Not that I can recall, but that changed over time. If it cannot 'meet' a lot of players demands, then perhaps we should fix the 'trade values', since gold does not seem to have a terribly foreseeable future. And blockers will be forever blocking, it just depends on what is blocking at the time.

 

Again, I just don't understand how currency and adding an economy would do anything. Look at Awyas, Felisfire, ect. They're slowly crumbling, but it isn't their fault. And why exactly would we let this place become a petsite?

[KageSora]

@KageSora: First, eventually you should be able to buy most things for Gold. Second, you don't have to accept Gold.

Well, theoretically you should be able to reasonably trade for most things eventually, too--hasn't happened yet.

 

How do I know I will find somebody selling [very specific lineage dragon] for a price I can afford?

 

I know I don't need to accept gold--but the problem is, what if all the trades you want won't accept gold? Then you're no better off than with the system we have right now.

[StormWizard212]

While I'm sure this does work on magistream and everything, I like DC the way it is and I wouldn't want to see an in game money system. I don't mind little changes to game play such as new BSAs being introduced and stuff, but I think that a system like this would completely change what DC is at a very fundamental level. And I think TJ has all the basics done really well, which is why the site has attracted so many people, so I don't think changing it in such a drastic way would really be in many people's favour at all.

[Dolphinsong]

Placing limits on how much a person can sell an egg/hatchling for defeats the purpose of currency. Its like saying all CB eggs (including golds) are worth the same if its a 10 gold limit per purchace. EVERYONE would be selling at the max allowed limit.

[brairtrainer]

Everyone: It'd probably have a profile cap and a trading cap. For example, 200g per scroll, with 10g tops being allowed to trade per transaction. (So if you had multiple transactions, you could trade it all, but per each it can't be greater than 10g.)

 

 

The current system cannot meet a lot of player's demands. Just because it works for you, doesn't mean it works for others.

 

@KageSora: First, eventually you should be able to buy most things for Gold. Second, you don't have to accept Gold.

 

Oh! Also! If you couldn't find a trader- only a buyer- for it anyway, well.

The thing is gold would be devalued very quickly even if you put a limit in place. CB golds would be worth more than 10 gp(gold pieces) for most players causing bought transactions of filler eggs until you got to the end and finally traded for the gold dragon which opens up more scams and whining to the mods.

 

This won't work because of DC's basic sturcture, and just because people can't get what they want doesn't mean an economy isn't working. I just got a CB neb with a fantastic code from someone nice in the iirc. The places I've seen that had a currency such a thing was unheard of to give people things you don't need for free.

 

I'll use howrse for example, to prevent scams of their currency you have a minimum placed on horses you may want to give away for free, but howrse has also had trouble with multi-accounts used to rack up the money to buy their way ahead of the game.

 

Howrse is structured differently including having a system of having players pay money to keep the site up and going (beyond the ad-block we have here)

 

The only way gold should be added is through hoarding. I think this would destroy what economy we have. Another game I played changed their currency and the result was players unable to remain and leave an otherwise good game. I doubt the game is still running from the change.

 

just my two cents

[angelicdragonpuppy]

@KageSora: First, eventually you should be able to buy most things for Gold. Second, you don't have to accept Gold.

But see, that's the scary thing here. If this is implemented, I have a funny feeling that a lot of people (myself included tbh ^^; ) wouldn't trade stuff for gold because we're worried the people we want dragons from won't be interested in said gold.

 

Let's imagine a possible scenario...

 

I have a 2nd gen Gold from, uh... Silver or something. Woo, rare stuff! I really want to trade it for a Neglected, but no one's offering, and the Gold is a hatchling on the edge of growing up. Then someone comes along and offers me gold for it, and I accept, thinking I can use that gold to get a Neglected later on.

 

However, when I do find someone offering a Neglected... they refuse to trade it for gold! And, alas, all the other Neglected traders appear to be doing the same. If I had kept the 2nd gen Gold, at least I would've been able to breed it and perhaps get a 3rd gen Metal in the future. I know a Metal has worth, because it's a dragon, and the whole point of this game is to collect dragons. But I don't know if the gold will ever have any future worth, because again, it is NOT an end product (a dragon) and thus might not be worth anything to anyone, ever, because taking gold involves taking a risk that they might end up stuck with a product that never does any work (read: breeding of new rares to trade) for them.

 

So yah, I don't think it'd really work that well, or at least not well enough to warrant it being implemented? ;www; If you have something valuable that you can't find a trade for at present, then just try taking an IOU. While the staff made what I consider to have been a VERY LOUSY CALL in banning them from trade posts, you can still offer them in your sig, offer them in a special channel on IRC, offer them in PM, or even go to one of the new IOU trading forums kicking around, so it's still possible. IOUs are a risk, yah, but so is trading a dragon for a currency that might not see much use.

Edited November 3, 2012 by angelicdragonpuppy