Trade/Gift Adults or Frozen Things

[olympe]

And it would give an unfair advantage to people with loads of old pinks, frills, CB blacks or whatever used to be common but is really hard to get now. In my opinion, older player have enough of an advantage already because of their larger numbers of rare dragons, and giving them this kind of an advantage might well break the game - or at least suck all the fun out of it.

[ShadowRift]

Look guys, if gifting adults/frozens just ONCE a year, and even then it would be a very limited number, would reduce the chance of adults becoming currency. Yes, there will only be the gifting option available for just one time a year, and maybe only one thing can be gifted that day. Even if someone was trading a CB Holly- it's just one. One dragon on one scroll for one day. Not that big a chance of dragons become 'money'. The fact I need to make clear is that the gifting would be extremely limited.

Being able to only gift frozens would be a lot better, if everyone is against giving away adults, since nothing much can be done with them, and this action could be just once a month. Or it would be an automated system which randomly hands out the inactive player's frozens (of course the player gets an email about a week before that happens), and then poof!- you have a new addition to the scroll. So how about the option of gifting frozen hatchies/eggs people?

[olympe]

I guess the problem we have is that several different options are discussed at once.

First, there was the suggestion of heavily limited gifting of adults. Second, there was the suggestion of making adults tradable without any restrictions.

 

The first wouldn't bother me too much, but I get the "I want to be able to do [insert cool thing here]" vibe from it, which is a big no-go in the BSA suggestions. Sure, this here is not a BSA, but the thing is that the vibe is still there. (And the cool thing to insert would be the ability to get retired breeds or somebody else's rares from them.) And I really don't like it.

 

The second, however, is something I'd totally hate to see implemented, mostly for two reasons, the incredible advantage for older players and the use of rare dragons as (unlimited) currency.

 

ETA: I feel the same about gifting frozen hatchlings. Besides, if gifting of frozen hatchlings is implemented, the next request we'd get is "I wanna be able to unfreeze my hatchling - after all, I wasn't the one to freeze it!". And after that, people would send off their frozens, let them be unfrozen and get them back to raise them to adulthood.

Edited October 26, 2012 by olympe

[ShadowRift]

I wasn't the one who suggested adults should be tradeable or that the gifting thing would be almost unlimited.

Maybe gifting frozen hatchlings/eggs would be better, and there would be no way to unfreeze them. It would be a very small and nice present on Christmas though.

[olympe]

Why would it be better? They could still become some kind of inofficial dragon currency. Besides, there's also the thing that some people don't collect frozen hatchlings. *points at own scroll*

[stogucheme]

Olympe, they're ALREADY currency. Except, they're currency that quickly burns away with each day. And that I think is the unacceptable part.

It feels like it's a system to keep people like me down- I can't catch rares (even some of the more uncommon stuff), and I don't have enough rares to reliably breed them. So by the time I do get something nice, I'm screwed. Because everyone wants this particular rare or difficult to make lineage or nothing higher than 2G or multiple rares or even CB only.

And it's ridiculous! The oldest players and fast catchers have such a tight control on trade (and such unbelievable prices) that I literally haven't found any good trades in months. Every time I go to the trade forums, I get so upset that I stop playing for at least a day.

 

At least this would give me a chance. It's easier to accrue rares over months than do it all in one week.

[ShadowRift]

I'm not a very good catcher myself (apart from the occasional nebula and cheese), I've never ever seen a gold, silver, tinsel, black or leetle tree in the cave drops. Most of what I've gotten is from trades. One time, I had an IOU for several influenced CB moonstone hatchlings for some egg. I had gone through about 12 moonstones (about 8 of the adult ones can be seen on my scroll) before the IOU was finished. Each time the hatchlings were ready, the person was away or the teleport had somehow not worked. This would give a chance to the younger and less fortunate players on the game to at least own something of worth like a black alt hatchling or a PB stripe. All I've ever been gifted was one of each trio (higher than 3rd gen I think, can't remember exactly) and a gold. In my conscience, I owe these people, especially the very generous gold-giver very much. I would have never gotten a gold with that good a lineage from a trade, from what I have to offer. Think yourself as lucky to get multiple gifts of silvers and golds.

 

Anyway, enough about me. If you're worried about currency, it's already out there. Holly IOUs are selling for lots from what I've seen and so have NDs, low gen golds and silvers. I don't really think being able to gift ONE adult/frozen per year would create much of a stir.

Edited October 26, 2012 by ShadowRift

[olympe]

I think that inflation is the best part about any perceived currency in DC. Because this way, exorbitant prices for [insert cool dragon here] cannot be met, so asking for them is moot.

Edited October 26, 2012 by olympe

[stogucheme]

I think that's the best part. Because this way, exorbitant prices for [insert cool dragon here] cannot be met, so asking for them is moot.

But they CAN be met. And they are. Or the person doesn't mind keeping the rare they just got and adding it to their breeding pool. And that's the problem. Because we have to meet these prices if we want anything nice, but there's no way we can get them in time.

[TheTwilightKnight]

I'm kinda neutral with this.

 

I think it would be really cool to give a friend or just someone that gifted you, or traded with you. But, this should only be on Christmas and you should only be able to trade say, 1-3 dragons? This seems fair enough.

 

But of you could trade adults, monthly, daily, etc, that would be a bad think in my opinion. I could see this being bad it multiple ways.

 

But that's just me, I don't mean to offend anyone's opinion or thought here.

[ShadowRift]

And that is why I tried to specify in the beginning that this gifting should only happen once a year, with a limit.

 

I too think trading adult dragons on a daily basis isn't good.

[TheTwilightKnight]

Well, if it was like that, then yeah, it seems like a fun, cool thing to be added. ^^;

[ShadowRift]

Exactly! It seems as though everyone is into thinking that the gifting should happen every day/month. *urges people to rethink situation*

[TheTwilightKnight]

Exactly! It seems as though everyone is into thinking that the gifting should happen every day/month. *urges people to rethink situation*

Yes, this would be great idea if it was simply limited to Christmas, or some other Holiday, or important event. This could be a good way to help newbies, or other people, to get rare or somewhat, valuable dragons.

[Fuzzbucket]

If you're worried about currency, it's already out there. Holly IOUs are selling for lots from what I've seen and so have NDs, low gen golds and silvers. I don't really think being able to gift ONE adult/frozen per year would create much of a stir.

Some of us just GIFT these things. A LOT of us do. My Holly list runs to 2015 - and I am not asking for or expecting anything back. The ones I was given (3 - don't ask; one was passed on with the donor's permission) were given to me without asking for anything in trade.

 

It's much nicer this way. Commerce sucks - look what it has done to the REAL world

 

Stog - why not put your "most wanted" wishlist in your sig. I did that - that was how I was offered my Hollies.... By people I hardly knew at all, too, not friends I'd made here.

[ShadowRift]

Am currently looking for a Holly IOU, and I wonder if anyone will respond...

 

There are quite a few CB hollies with inactive players that I have looked at, I think it would be nice if some automated system spread them around active players so more people could have Hollies. And I guess teleport trading could be called commerce here on dragon cave. It already exists in a way here, and many of us have experienced it.

If you are strongly opposed to gifting anything that is currently un-giftable, then please provide an strong, backed up answer which does not involve currency/logic of drag cave/just your opinion, as these have already been discussed.

 

I acknowledge that there are some very very generous people out there and I am grateful for what you have done, but what can be wrong with just gifting a frozen hatchling to a newbie?

Edited October 26, 2012 by ShadowRift

[olympe]

Apart from the fact that not everybody collects frozen hatchlings?

 

And why do you say that I have to provide a reason for my rejection of trading/gifting adults, but none of the reasons already stated? I'm entitled to use the logic of dragcave, my opinion or the feeling that too much "gifting" of adults might turn them into currency. However, why don't you give a strong, backed-up answer that does not involve your opinion or "because it would help newbies (like you? *coughcough* *winkwink* *wavewave* *coughcough*)"?

 

but what can be wrong with just gifting a frozen hatchling to a newbie?

What can be wrong with just catching/breeding, hatching and freezing your own hatchlings?

 

Everybody has to start small, and there's hardly anybody who started out with a scroll-lock of golds and silvers. If you still need metallics - which, once again, are really hard to breed - you can always try one of the gifting threads here. You can put something in your signature. Or try to create neglecteds and trade them. (Don't expect any CB metals for them, though, that's bound to fail in my experience.)

 

Apart from that, almost everything can still be bred, and I don't see how getting an egg instead of an adult would be such a bad thing. The only thing where there's an obvious difference is with retired breeds. Everything else - no matter how rare - can still be acquired as egg or hatchling.

[CNR4806]

A simple balance between "not enough time to trade within the growing timeframe" and "trading adults don't make sense in-game": Stop babysitting everyone and re-allow IOUs.

 

To be honest, the official ban on IOUs is what caused trading to become an extremely difficult (if not impossible, in case of the rares) time-based mission. Let's say you have a 2nd gen Silver for a bloodswap, without IOU, to accept your trade I'll have to see your message, and then get incredibly lucky (everyone knows how sucky metallic breeding is) to get the 2nd gen Silver to actually trade.

 

The amount of people seeing your trade message is already limited, and this small population will be reduced to dust 99% of the time since rares are hard to get (i.e. You cannot hoard a thousand CB silvers to try for that 2nd gen) and hard to breed (As aforementioned, the chance of a successful breeding is laughable). At the end your chance of getting what the other people want? Well if you do I think you should buy a lottery ticket or something.

 

With IOU, however, gives a risk of being scammed but also much, much, much more flexibility. Say you want a bloodswap and the breeding of my sole CB Silver failed, we make an agreement and I keep trying until I succeed. Both parties will be happy since they'll get what they want (eventually) instead of the offerer left with a dying silver that they can't find a trader for.

 

Of course, you'll have to learn how to choose trade partners. Or if DC is taking IOUs serious enough with enough moderators to do it, make an IOU pact thread or board to keep record of IOUs and punish whoever breaking the promise when reported.

[olympe]

Probably the best point I've seen so far. Yes, IOUs are hard to do without, especially when trading rares - which, I've been assured numerous times, are rare for a reason. (I still don't know what that reason might be, but that's an entirely different matter. ) And yet, we can still take our IOU trades off site, or put them in our signatures (unless that has been changed recently).

[TroupeMaster]

Am I the only person that's alarmed at the thought of my dragons being automatically given away to randoms should I stop playing for a period of time? I've seen it twice now and I'm suprised nobody else has mentioned it...

[angelicdragonpuppy]

You can still do IOUs, you just have to make your trade say. 'want certain eggs/hatchies, see sig for details' and then put the info in your sig rather than posting it directly in your post. It's pretty stupid.

Edited October 26, 2012 by angelicdragonpuppy

[Fuzzbucket]

A simple balance between "not enough time to trade within the growing timeframe" and "trading adults don't make sense in-game": Stop babysitting everyone and re-allow IOUs.

 

To be honest, the official ban on IOUs is what caused trading to become an extremely difficult (if not impossible, in case of the rares) time-based mission. Let's say you have a 2nd gen Silver for a bloodswap, without IOU, to accept your trade I'll have to see your message, and then get incredibly lucky (everyone knows how sucky metallic breeding is) to get the 2nd gen Silver to actually trade.

 

The amount of people seeing your trade message is already limited, and this small population will be reduced to dust 99% of the time since rares are hard to get (i.e. You cannot hoard a thousand CB silvers to try for that 2nd gen) and hard to breed (As aforementioned, the chance of a successful breeding is laughable). At the end your chance of getting what the other people want? Well if you do I think you should buy a lottery ticket or something.

 

With IOU, however, gives a risk of being scammed but also much, much, much more flexibility. Say you want a bloodswap and the breeding of my sole CB Silver failed, we make an agreement and I keep trying until I succeed. Both parties will be happy since they'll get what they want (eventually) instead of the offerer left with a dying silver that they can't find a trader for.

 

Of course, you'll have to learn how to choose trade partners. Or if DC is taking IOUs serious enough with enough moderators to do it, make an IOU pact thread or board to keep record of IOUs and punish whoever breaking the promise when reported.

IOUs ARE allowed. Just not by posting them in threads and so on. Because then disappointed people complain to mods, who CANNOT reasonably be expected to police them. They just have to be done by PM and there is (and should be !) no way to appeal to anyone if things go wrong - very much an at your own risk thing.

 

And what is wrong with that ? I don't see it as stupid; and as for the suggestion that it's babysitting NOT to allow them in public - I'd think it more babysitting to allow them and expect the mods to police them for you. Take your own risks (I have a few running right now) and take the consequences yourself if you don't get what you expect. That is not having a babysitter; it's taking responsibility for yourself instead.

 

Edited a zillion times for typefails; I HAVE to get to bed

Edited October 26, 2012 by fuzzbucket

[HeatherMarie]

Am I the only person that's alarmed at the thought of my dragons being automatically given away to randoms should I stop playing for a period of time? I've seen it twice now and I'm suprised nobody else has mentioned it...

Yeah, I reacted the same way. I think it's a definite NO WAY when it comes to actually taking dragons off a person's scroll and giving them to someone else, just because they've been gone for awhile. That's horribly unfair.

Edited October 26, 2012 by Marie19R

[Starbit]

Yeah, I reacted the same way. I think it's a definite NO WAY when it comes to actually taking dragons off a person's scroll and giving them to someone else, just because they've been gone for awhile. That's horribly unfair.

I had an almost year hiatus from DC due to RL drama. I would be incredibly angry if I lost all my dragons this way just because I had a hiatus.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

And what is wrong with that ? I don't see it as stupid; and as for the suggestion that it's babysitting NOT to allow them in public - I'd think it more babysitting to allow them and expect the mods to police them for you. Take your own risks (I have a few running right now) and take the consequences yourself if you don't get what you expect. That is not having a babysitter; it's taking responsibility for yourself instead.

Alternately, the mods could just do what a lot of people had suggested--make PMing mods asking for IOU help against the rules and give them a warn and a standard 'IOUs are your own risk and can't be enforced by staff" message if they do so. People can get warned for breaking other pinned rules, so why not expect them to follow and obey a NEW pinned rule? But nope, instead all the people who realize IOUs are an independently made risk now have to mess around with their signatures to ask for IOUs or send out PMs blindly asking if people ask for IOUs, all to cater to those who apparently can't understand the one-way transfer warning. Brilliant.

 

But anywho, I'd be ok with any of the three adult transfer things mentioned--open trading, seasonal gifting, or the opening up of 'gifting' ability to those who haven't played for a set amount of time (aka people who've most likely quit). If you roll with seasonal gifting, perhaps it could be a BSA that all Christmas dragons have, like a limited-time, special version of a Magi's teleport?

 

"You and [dragon to be teleported] notice someone who looks lonely. You ask [dragon to be teleported] if they'd like to go cheer them up, and they agree. [Christmas dragon doing the teleporting] smiles as you spread the holiday spirit, and leads [dragon to be teleported] over to make the introductions."

 

If you want to follow in-game logic, it could be seen as more the dragon visiting the other person than permanently leaving, even if that's not the technical case. After all, apparently both we and our dragons live for a very, very long time, so it wouldn't be too bad if they went and visited some new people for a while.

Edited October 27, 2012 by angelicdragonpuppy