Trade/Gift Adults or Frozen Things

[Cinnamin Draconna]

The non-consentual taking of someone's dragons will NEVER happen. Depending on how TJ decides to implement the taking of names from inactive scrolls, the worse that would EVER happen to an inactive scroll would be the dragons losing their names.

 

Now if adult trading were allowed, it would be possible for someone to give away all their dragons if they decided to leave. But it would NEVER be mandatory and their dragons would NEVER be taken away for inactivity.

 

I've seen people leave and come back after 5 years; their dragons lost their names, but they were all there when the player came back. TJ would never change that.

 

-------------------

 

Back on topic.. with the proper restrictions, I think adult trading could become a wonderful addition to the game. And I think those restrictions should be about what adult dragons can be traded, but not how many. Teleport limits each trade to 4/4, but everyone knows that massive trades go on both in the trade threads and via chat or PM. I personally, don't see any problems allowing huge trades to happen, because it's strictly between the two players involved. I've made 20:1 trades myself, so I don't see it as a big deal, and I see no reason to restrict that type of trade.

 

What can be traded tho, that's another story. Simply due to the complaints already voiced in this thread, there will have to be limits, otherwise it would never work. My suggested restricted types would be..

caveborn holidays

caveborn tinsels/shimmers

caveborn hybrids and ALTs that were given out as HM prizes

any type of zombie dragon

Guardians of Nature, which aren't tradeable even as eggs/hatchlings

bright Pinks

Frilled Dragons - unless/until they are re-released

Artist Sprites

 

There's no reason to restrict rares, hybrids or anything else that is available either from the cave or breeding.

 

EDIT: to add HM ALTs to the list

Edited June 20, 2014 by Cinnamin Draconna

[HeatherMarie]

It makes sense that if you can't get it in-cave, you can't get it by adult-trading.

[MessengerDragon]

What can be traded tho, that's another story. Simply due to the complaints already voiced in this thread, there will have to be limits, otherwise it would never work. My suggested restricted types would be..

caveborn holidays

caveborn tinsels/shimmers

caveborn hybrids that were given out as HM prizes

any type of zombie dragon

Guardians of Nature, which aren't tradeable even as eggs/hatchlings

bright Pinks

Frilled Dragons - unless/until they are re-released

Artist Sprites

 

There's no reason to restrict rares, hybrids or anything else that is available either from the cave or breeding.

What about CB alts?

[Fiona]

CB alt blacks and vines that were given as HM prizes probably shouldn't be tradeable either. Except for that addition I agree with Cinnamin's list.

[AztecCroc]

If I may, the main issue here seems to be dragons that grow up while waiting to be traded. So an easy solution, to this at least would be to allow dragons to change state with out canceling the offer and allowing adults that matured while waiting to be traded to still be traded, but only if the trade was still active once it was completed or cancelled the adult would become untrade-able. I think this would satisfy a lot of people in this topic.

[Cinnamin Draconna]

Not in my case it wouldn't.

 

I want to trade adults for lineage projects and bloodline swaps. Finding the right breeding pair with the right combination of breeds/colors can take weeks or longer. The length of time it takes for an egg to hatch and a hatchling to mature is not always long enough when you're working with a project that has been years in the process.

[AztecCroc]

Not in my case it wouldn't.

 

I want to trade adults for lineage projects and bloodline swaps. Finding the right breeding pair with the right combination of breeds/colors can take weeks or longer. The length of time it takes for an egg to hatch and a hatchling to mature is not always long enough when you're working with a project that has been years in the process.

I did say a lot, not everyone...

 

What project are you working on?

[Cinnamin Draconna]

A 10 gen even gen purebred stripe project, 5 years in process. I only recently finished the baseline. http://lady_cin.tripod.com/projects/projectEvenGenStripe.htm

A friend is working on a similar project that is even more ambitios, since they decided to have a pattern as well. We could have swapped many 2nd gens, if adult trading were allowed.

[AztecCroc]

Perhaps this, in addition to my previous suggestion, would fix that sort of thing too. Give a dragon a BSA that functions in way that; you select your BSA dragon then the dragon you want to breed and then people could click a link to the page to offer one of their dragons to breed then the owner could pick which to use, similar to a trade, and then the person who put up the breed offer would get the egg or alternatively the one who owns the mother gets the egg. That would probably eliminate lineage concerns without needing to trade adults. I think Heartseekers would be perfect for this as their description states that this is what they do.

 

Heartseeker Dragons are very social creatures that emanate a sweet chocolatey scent. Their captivating perfume easily attracts adult dragons that don't yet have a mate. Heartseekers use their keen sense of smell to detect solitary dragons and potential mates in the area. By rubbing their fins against objects such as trees and rocks, they leave a scent trail for the other dragons to follow to meet each other. Although these dragons are seen year-round, the scent of a Heartseeker becomes particularly potent during the middle of February. During this time, a single Heartseeker may play matchmaker to dozens of dragons, but he will also choose a special mate of his own."

Edited September 10, 2014 by AztecCroc

[Tehya Faye]

Being able to breed my dragons to those belonging to other users would be neat, but I think that's an idea for a different thread.

[edwardelricfreak]

Perhaps this, in addition to my previous suggestion, would fix that sort of thing too. Give a dragon a BSA that functions in way that; you select your BSA dragon then the dragon you want to breed and then people could click a link to the page to offer one of their dragons to breed then the owner could pick which to use, similar to a trade, and then the person who put up the breed offer would get the egg or alternatively the one who owns the mother gets the egg. That would probably eliminate lineage concerns without needing to trade adults. I think Heartseekers would be perfect for this as their description states that this is what they do.

 

Heartseeker Dragons are very social creatures that emanate a sweet chocolatey scent. Their captivating perfume easily attracts adult dragons that don't yet have a mate. Heartseekers use their keen sense of smell to detect solitary dragons and potential mates in the area. By rubbing their fins against objects such as trees and rocks, they leave a scent trail for the other dragons to follow to meet each other. Although these dragons are seen year-round, the scent of a Heartseeker becomes particularly potent during the middle of February. During this time, a single Heartseeker may play matchmaker to dozens of dragons, but he will also choose a special mate of his own."

Please no, only because Heartseekers are a limited breed :\

 

Besides, there are already some suggestions in the general suggestions thread that are for breeding between scrolls that wouldn't require ANY BSA.

[celesteon]

Reasons why this wouldn't work:

- Hackers could do so much damage with this. So much.

- When somebody trades/gifts an egg with conditions such as "do not kill, trade, or experiment, and please name", they would no longer be able to rest assured that their offspring are in good hands if they are able to keep changing hands after adulthood.

- People would have a very, very good reason to scroll-cheat; they could trade some of their adult rares over to a new scroll, breed them till they are egg locked, then also breed other dragons or catch eggs on their main scroll until locked and it wouldn't matter where the dragons mature as you could always trade the adults back to your main scroll until they are all back safely. Currently, having a second scroll that provides benefits to a main scroll is difficult if you wish to avoid detection, as the people you're trading with would notice all their trades going to a scroll other than the one your side of the trade came from/the egg's parents are on. If you could trade all the dragons from your second scroll back to your main, there would be no evidence. We don't want to give people more reasons to do it.

- Holiday dragons would be obtainable year-round as adults, taking away the point of being there to catch them yourself. Which is unfair on those who make time on V-day, Christmas, or Halloween for a game (which in itself rewards your diligence as a player)

- Prize dragons (Tinsels, Shimmers) WOULD be one of the species traded, even the CB's, especially if the owner was retiring. That ruins trading for low-gen prizes.

- This would be a pain in the neck to code - information on a dragon's rejections and previously tested mates would need to follow the dragon, but the mates available would change with each new scroll it moves to and the information may never be used again. This results in redundant, irrelevant information and more chances for bugs and exploits to occur.

- TJ will never allow wilderness dragons to come into new hands, and trading adults opens up some very similar issues.

- The thought of just how many people would rage at this being implemented is enough to convince me that TJ would never take such a risk.

[Red2111]

i dont like the idea of trading adults. its a point of pride for me (even when i have a hard to get pair refuse, and i've had one refuse 3 hard to come by mates ) for every adult i have on my scroll. i dont want them, their Zombie fodder or released.

 

 

as much as i'd love to trade for a CB Marrow or a discontinued baby. this doesn't have my support.

 

 

 

 

but ... what about being able to pimp your adult dragons out (or stud, i like pimp as the term tho )

 

 

theres a dog raising site i used to tinker on, and they had a studding feature coded in. it would require a multi-clutch so each breeder had the chance to pick an egg from the clutch ... but its a more interesting option that adult trading imo

[Syphoneira]

Sock you have summarised everything really well After all the elaboration my preference would still be not to have this at all. If it ever was made as a change I will simply prepare a "My adult dragons are not tradeable" line in siggy  ...

 

 

 

 

 

Covered it nicely for me, except that I never did like the idea, myself.

 

I suppose part of it's a hang-over of the fact that if you raise a pet to adulthood, you keep it throughout its life, unless some disaster strikes and you are no longer able to properly care for it.

 

On the other hand, I have, after lineages became accessible, Released some inbreds into the Wilderness to avoid accidentally breeding them, which I'd obviously never do with a RL pet, but that wasn't 'to get something better than them'... personally, even with pixels, don't like that notion somehow...

 

I do have the odd 'useless' dragon on my scroll which grew up before being collected by its prospective owner, but that occurrence does place a limit on how long anyone can expect you to keep their dragons taking up scroll space, and I prefer it that way - otherwise, even though adults don't take a spot, there are no consequences for those who've have had no disaster, just asked for a breeding, only to keep locking themselves after promises of prompt pick-up or simply not bothered to come on to get it after asking for a breeding, swearing that they'd show/stay on to take it right away, and then disappearing even during the breeding itself - so you have to drop something you wanted in order to fulfill a promise to breed for someone else or to take an incoming egg.

 

You don't like to give up on people, in case they've lost internet or been hit by a car or something, since you don't know what's happened until whenever they finally return, but their having to wait for a re-breed, (or simply losing out on the dragon(s) they wanted because they figured you'd hold it/them until whenever and that they could just get the adult, because they were new and didn't know they were not trade-able - and weren't even sorry or polite) might make them think a little in future, since they don't always care that this makes other people wait for breeding/catching as well.

 

I don't breed much any more myself, or at least don't get many eggs, lol, but many people do; dunno if that's a factor for them?

 

I guess trading's different - but I don't like waiting that long for trade offers to go through either, and that does limit the time people can be kept waiting on their offers to under a week... could be years, in some cases, with trade-able adults.

 

 

Somewhere, there may still be an old thread on breeding between scrolls, another suggestion I personally wouldn't use, even though I can see that a lot of combinations previously almost or entirely impossible could be achieved.

 

I suppose that has to do with not wanting other people to use my scroll, or think that it's OK to, and some of that has to do with privacy and some with sheer outright selfishness.

 

I have enough trouble getting my dragons to breed for me, without having to wait for other people to try squeezing eggs out of them, lol.

 

But if that became possible, there'd be a lot of people looking through scrolls for mates for their dragons, and I'd hope the opting out suggestion for that which was made at the time would be part of it.

[KittyHawkMC]

I actually had an idea for this, that you could get an Alt Magi maybe, with cream skin and blue eyes. It could teleport adults, and it was a bit bigger than normal Magi.

 

If you wanted the regular Magi to do this, I disagree. Magi already need a cooldown for teleporting measly eggs and hatchlings. How tired would they be if they had to teleport, say, a Brute or a Terrae?

 

Other than that, sounds like a nice idea. Supports!

[Vain.3805]

Dunno if it's already been mentioned but the trouble with no risk to hatchlings growing up removing the necessity to trade has been mentioned... what if (if this is ever used) to trade an adult dragon you must have owned it for a certain period of time. Like a month or more.

 

NO endorsement for this idea from me, however. Too much trouble. I'd much rather have other BSA's listed here made live.

[CNR4806]

Dunno if it's already been mentioned but the trouble with no risk to hatchlings growing up removing the necessity to trade has been mentioned... what if (if this is ever used) to trade an adult dragon you must have owned it for a certain period of time. Like a month or more.

 

NO endorsement for this idea from me, however. Too much trouble. I'd much rather have other BSA's listed here made live.

If you're trying to maintain the time-limited nature of the current trading system, the best solution would be to turn your proposal around: Adults can only be traded for <period> before they're stuck to your scroll forever.

 

Still no support from me though. To me the problem lies with keeping the foundation and premise of the game intact rather than any single game mechanic.

 

 

And in any case, if a suggestion needs two bajillion pages of restrictions to resemble something that won't break the game, as it currently is with this thread, chances are it isn't that good to begin with.

[Fuzzbucket]

If you're trying to maintain the time-limited nature of the current trading system, the best solution would be to turn your proposal around: Adults can only be traded for <period> before they're stuck to your scroll forever.

 

Still no support from me though. To me the problem lies with keeping the foundation and premise of the game intact rather than any single game mechanic.

 

 

And in any case, if a suggestion needs two bajillion pages of restrictions to resemble something that won't break the game, as it currently is with this thread, chances are it isn't that good to begin with.

All this is true. Trading within the first two weeks of adulthood is as far as I would take this one - and I would rather not run in ANY direction with it.

 

The ONLY circumstance in which I have ever wished this were possible was the time I had bred a REALLY difficult egg for an IOU and the recipient did not respond to repeated PMs and emails. I was NOT HAPPY. But of course - you guessed it - when they made contact over a week after it had grown up (it was too good to offer at random so I still have it) they had been knocked off line by Weather. As I was just knocked off for two days myself, this is one I can sympathise with - and it would be nice if there were some way to deal with it ! I did consider suggesting a BSA to hold a trade hatchie in stasis while waiting for the recipient to show up - but I have also had a trade where they never showed up at all, so that doesn't work...

Edited December 2, 2014 by fuzzbucket

[Riannon]

I personally do not understand why this wasn't added with the Teleport feature. Adding this would not change scroll limits; you could still only have 2 each of the limited CB holidays and 3 of the GoNs, so I don't get the fuss. As far as trading discontinued dragons goes, if someone wants to pay an obscene price for them, more power to them - I say let them. Markets have a way of stabilizing themselves, and I wouldn't be worried about prices going haywire and staying that way. After any change, there is always an adjustment period, but inevitably it normalizes itself. That's just the way of economics. I support this, thought I don't see it happening because of all the BAWWWWWing that so many short-sighted players would likely lambaste all over this forum. It's a good idea, too bad it will never happen.

[edwardelricfreak]

I personally do not understand why this wasn't added with the Teleport feature. Adding this would not change scroll limits; you could still only have 2 each of the limited CB holidays and 3 of the GoNs, so I don't get the fuss. As far as trading discontinued dragons goes, if someone wants to pay an obscene price for them, more power to them - I say let them. Markets have a way of stabilizing themselves, and I wouldn't be worried about prices going haywire and staying that way. After any change, there is always an adjustment period, but inevitably it normalizes itself. That's just the way of economics. I support this, thought I don't see it happening because of all the BAWWWWWing that so many short-sighted players would likely lambaste all over this forum. It's a good idea, too bad it will never happen.

Sure, we'll definitely get used to it after a time. The main reason I'm against it is that it completely changes the game mechanics. Instead of taking the time to raise the dragons and only being able to trade hatchlings and eggs, we'll be trading adults. Sure, a lot of things have changed, but DC revolves around raising eggs. Maybe if adults had started out tradeable it wouldn't be a big deal but it didn't. Most of the changes so far haven't really changed the games main mechanics, they just improved upon them. Biomes? There was already a cave, now there are just more. Trading? We could technically do that, Teleport just made it safer and easier. Nothing has changed; the game is always played by raising eggs and/or hatchlings to adulthood, NOT being able to trade adults. Even if the adults can't breed right away (which I assume would have to happen if this were implemented), you still get an adult without having to raise it.

 

I mean, I'm still pretty much ambivalent to the suggestion. I don't care if it's accepted or rejected, but my biggest issue with it is that it completely changes the game's play from raising to just obtaining adults. It might not be a problem, but maybe it will, who knows. Other than that aspect I wouldn't mind either way.