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Cultural appropriation

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So I've just started tumblr and the amount of people wearing sacred regalia from other cultures just because they think it's "pretty" baffles me. Why would people do that?

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Do they know those clothes are sacred?

Sometimes I think they don't, and people call them out on it, and they get all defensive for some reason "I'm appreciating their culture OMG I like it so much it's pretty" and then people get pretty upset, and I can definitely see why.

 

Some people know it's sacred but because it's pretty they do it anyways.

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So I've just started tumblr and the amount of people wearing sacred regalia from other cultures just because they think it's "pretty" baffles me. Why would people do that?

Do Catholics feel the same when someone wears a rosary as a necklace/fashion statement? Because I'm not Catholic, but that bothers me.

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Do Catholics feel the same when someone wears a rosary as a necklace/fashion statement? Because I'm not Catholic, but that bothers me.

I'm not Catholic, but personally I think I would be. However, Catholicism hasn't had as much oppression as certain minority groups have had, so I don't think it's on par with the, say, current fashion trend of wearing "Indian Headdresses" (I put them on quotes because I don't think that they're legitimate). But I may be wrong.

Edited by ylangylang

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I'm not Catholic, but personally I think I would be. However, Catholicism hasn't had as much oppression as certain minority groups have had, so I don't think it's on par with the, say, current fashion trend of wearing "Indian Headdresses" (I put them on quotes because I don't think that they're legitimate). But I may be wrong.

Good point. I haven't seen that around much. Is it becoming a style?

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I'm following two great blogs that call people out on this:

 

http://this-is-not-native.tumblr.com/

http://thisisnotgypsy.tumblr.com/

 

The second one is inactive, but there's still a lot of great stuff on the blog.

 

It just disgusts me when I see people reply to their comments like "But it's just a costuuuume!" "My grandmother was Cherokee/a g***y" "bluh bluh white tears". They've already told you why it's wrong. Now you can't claim ignorance, you're just being racist.

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Good point. I haven't seen that around much. Is it becoming a style?

Yep. As well as fashion "bindis", which are actually the "dots" that (Asian) Indian people wear on their foreheads. I mean...smh.

 

And soon it'll be Halloween so there will be tons of people going as Native Americans, geishas, etc.

 

@St. Jimmy-I follow thisisnotnative as well and the amount of bs spewed by people called out on that crap is disgusting. Ugh.

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Here's an interesting case of appropriation. Is this offensive to anyone, or not? I was Christian when I first discovered this and I mostly found it amusing (and still do).

 

Where do you draw the between "cultural appropriation" and cultural appreciation/influence? This is something I've been trying to determine since I found out cultural appropriation was a thing.

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Where do you draw the between "cultural appropriation" and cultural appreciation/influence? This is something I've been trying to determine since I found out cultural appropriation was a thing.

Appreciation means that you support the dwindling amount of traditional artisans. Influence is when you, with the permission of the source of said arts, incorporate thrm and use them as a means to get more support for said artists. The moment you incorporate sacred items however, you would be appropriating in my view because you didn't do anything to earn it. That's my opinion anyways. Especially when said cultures have been oppressed and continue to be oppressed.

 

Because for example I wear modern westernized clothing every day. Is that appropriation? No because our traditional garb had been spat upon as inferior for decades and is now only enjoying a gentle comeback in very small circles.

Edited by ylangylang

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Here's an interesting case of appropriation. Is this offensive to anyone, or not? I was Christian when I first discovered this and I mostly found it amusing (and still do).

 

Where do you draw the between "cultural appropriation" and cultural appreciation/influence? This is something I've been trying to determine since I found out cultural appropriation was a thing.

Since it seems to be mostly Catholic imagery, I couldn't really say for certain. As a protestant, I don't find it offensive. I find it somewhat amusing as well xd.png a Catholic might feel differently.

 

but I know certain denominations consider any depictions of Christ to be blasphemous, soooo...

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Well I belong to a forum for people with very long hair, and I know a lot of them adopt the headdresses of certain cultures because it protects their hair from damage. Would that be offensive? They don't do it for fashion reasons or because it's trendy, they do it because it's a good idea.

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I think a good example of cultural appropriation is people who wear 'Native American' style head-dresses because they want to look like 'indians'.

 

In true Native American culture, only certain tribes wore the type of head-dress that we see in costumes, and they were reserved for the people of high rank. Even wearing things like feathers to 'look native' can be appropriation. A young man who belonged to a Plateau tribe told me once that eagle feathers were sacred to his people. You had to EARN them. They were very symbolic. People who take something that significant and turn it into a 'for fun' costume show no respect or understanding of the culture at all.

 

 

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Well I belong to a forum for people with very long hair, and I know a lot of them adopt the headdresses of certain cultures because it protects their hair from damage. Would that be offensive? They don't do it for fashion reasons or because it's trendy, they do it because it's a good idea.

If they're sacred to the culture they're taken from, and the person wearing it isn't part of said culture, it is appropriation. Besides, why do they have to be headdresses from a different culture? I'm sure they could do the same with just a scarf or something.

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What is this all about? I don't see any of this on tumblr so I don't really get what this is. :/

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Wow, some of those tumblr links definitely opened my eyes to things I've never realized, but managed to never actually disrespect.

 

It's all about the lack of knowledge, or disregarded knowledge because of the headstrong "cool" factor that they are going for, in my opinion.

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If they're sacred to the culture they're taken from, and the person wearing it isn't part of said culture, it is appropriation. Besides, why do they have to be headdresses from a different culture? I'm sure they could do the same with just a scarf or something.
Exactly.

What is this all about? I don't see any of this on tumblr so I don't really get what this is. :/
Basically people taking sacred regalia from other cultures and wearing it.

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What I don't get is why people get so insulted when it's pointed out to them. Because it's never like these things are appropriated for some great and necessary purpose. And it's all too often done because someone think it's cool. That's basically a way of saying, "my having fun is more important than your concerns, hurt, or anger".

 

How do people not feel bad saying that? How hard is it not to wear wear an item in question or use certain words, etc? Not hard at all, actually. People's insistence that the other person is being "ridiculous" or "too sensitve" is so obnoxious. Why not just err on the side of caution and compassion and stop?

 

Especially when the argument is "It's no big deal". If they really believe that it's not a big deal then why inot just stop doing it? Even if you don't think it matters, why not just quite out of kindness?

 

ETA:

 

Well I belong to a forum for people with very long hair, and I know a lot of them adopt the headdresses of certain cultures because it protects their hair from damage. Would that be offensive? They don't do it for fashion reasons or because it's trendy, they do it because it's a good idea.

I think it depends on what the item in question means to the culture. There's a lot of things that naturally pass from one culture to the next because, as you said, they're good ideas.

 

If I was going to use something that was clearly from another culture I'd look into it's meaning, possibly ask someone about it. With the internet that kind of info is, literally, at our fingertips. Certainly if I was using it and someone came to me and said it was hurtful, insulting, etc., then I'd stop.

Edited by skauble

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I think it depends on what the item in question means to the culture.  There's a lot of things that naturally pass from one culture to the next because, as you said, they're good ideas.

 

If I was going to use something that was clearly from another culture I'd look into it's meaning, possibly ask someone about it.  With the internet that kind of info is, literally, at our fingertips.  Certainly if I was using it and someone came to me and said it was hurtful, insulting, etc., then I'd stop.

But how can you know which is sacred and which can be used in any culture? Most of the people on that forum use and make hair sticks, and I can't really figure out if they are seen as sacred or not. Even if they are, there's no way those ladies would give up using them, since they are the only thing they can use that will hold up their +5 feet of hair and not damage it.

 

It just seems very difficult to have to research every accessory first to make sure it has no cultural significance to anyone. Now I wonder if the plugs I wore for years were offending anyone, hmmm.

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Since it seems to be mostly Catholic imagery, I couldn't really say for certain. As a protestant, I don't find it offensive. I find it somewhat amusing as well xd.png a Catholic might feel differently.

 

but I know certain denominations consider any depictions of Christ to be blasphemous, soooo...

I'm Anglican, and I've got to say the whole idea makes me feel a little uncomfortable.

 

It might be more accurate to say a lot of it is 'European' rather than 'Catholic', too. The architecture and stained glass, as well as the renaissance style-paintings, aren't restricted to any one denomination here. It would be a bit like putting a sushi resteraunt in an exact replica of a shinto temple. Or having a resteraunt where all the waiters dressed as bhuddist monks.

 

So, yeah, it makes me uncomfortable. Then again I've always felt that the buildings and traditions of *any* religion - wether I follow it or not - should be treated with some kind of respect and reverence.

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But how can you know which is sacred and which can be used in any culture? Most of the people on that forum use and make hair sticks, and I can't really figure out if they are seen as sacred or not. Even if they are, there's no way those ladies would give up using them, since they are the only thing they can use that will hold up their +5 feet of hair and not damage it.

 

It just seems very difficult to have to research every accessory first to make sure it has no cultural significance to anyone. Now I wonder if the plugs I wore for years were offending anyone, hmmm.

Hair sticks are okay, imo-unless they're made of certain stuff and has a very specific design. Traditionally only married women can wear hair sticks, and enamel was allowed for the upper classes only but the meaning has been lost and diluted so much so that it no longer matters. It's not too hard to research stuff like this.

 

Some examples of enamel hair sticks that I'd be uncomfortable with people wearing as it has connotations to being upper class/royal family:

user posted image

Dragon, gold, holding a red ball (it isn't clear in the picture)-for the queen only

user posted image

Beads usually depicting flowers, butterflies, and sometimes a "Chinese phoenix" made of perals, enamel and jade, on silver-worn by the royal family or the upper class

user posted image

Jade circle with carvings of a flower decorated with beads, birds, etc-again worn only by the royal family or the upper class

user posted image

Plum blossoms and bamboo carvings, denotes a woman's chastity, usually made of enamel, worn by the upper class

user posted image

Fish and flowers engraved on coral, worn by the upper class

 

However, for example, if you were going to wear hair like this-

user posted image

which married women from a very specific ethnic group (Chalcha) wore in China, or like this-

user posted image

which married, affluent women from Korea wore, yes people would be offended, because those types of hair were considered "inferior" by western modernizing forces and there were forced hair cuttings and stuff. Not going to go into that but just know that during the course of modernization there was a lot of ****ed up stuff.

 

What I don't get is why people get so insulted when it's pointed out to them. Because it's never like these things are appropriated for some great and necessary purpose.
My guess is it's because they've never been told to stop doing something they wanted because of other people's reasons. mad.gif Or maybe they think it's their way of "appreciating" it except they aren't doing so. Edited by ylangylang

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But how can you know which is sacred and which can be used in any culture? Most of the people on that forum use and make hair sticks, and I can't really figure out if they are seen as sacred or not. Even if they are, there's no way those ladies would give up using them, since they are the only thing they can use that will hold up their +5 feet of hair and not damage it.

 

It just seems very difficult to have to research every accessory first to make sure it has no cultural significance to anyone. Now I wonder if the plugs I wore for years were offending anyone, hmmm.

As for researching everything, I don't think that's necessary. Frankly, ten seconds googling an item with a few key words about controversy will show if there are substantial issues about it. But if there's something that is really, clearly representative of a different culture - like a Native American headdress - yeah, I'd check that out.

 

Also, there are all sorts of things that a used in multiple cultures, and what ties them to a specific culture is simply the styling. Eliminating that could very well render the object culturally neutral.

 

On the whole, I don't think that it takes an exhaustive effort, and lots of times you really can't tell and so go ahead and wear it. I don't think that's the problem, in that case. I think the trouble comes if someone points out why it presents a real problem and then they get completely blown off.

 

My guess is it's because they've never been told to stop doing something they wanted because of other people's reasons. mad.gif Or maybe they think it's their way of "appreciating" it except they aren't doing so.

I also think there's a trend that's gaining momentum to imply that saying someone is doing something offensive or hurtful is actually worse than doing something that is offensive or hurtful.

 

For instance, if you say to someone that you think that they're doing something racist or sexist, there's often this huge defensive outrage that focuses less on a discussion of why that may or may not be true, and quickly dissolves into the realm of "how dare you accuse me of that" and "those accusations are so damaging"...which is usually code for "don't ever say anything about raism or sexism".

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I also think there's a trend that's gaining momentum to imply that saying someone is doing something offensive or hurtful is actually worse than doing something that is offensive or hurtful.

Ugh it irks me so much when people do that. Like they haven't been forced to assimilate, forcibly had their hair cut, forcibly put into "missionary" schools, forcibly had their language taken away from them...list goes on and on.

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I suddenly want to be a Korean Royal Person (not that I have enough hair.) xd.png

 

It's not just clothes and stuff - which, yes, I do find offensive, as does a shaman friend of mine. But - well, one huge issue on another forum I am on has been Stonehenge, believe it or not.

 

A load of images were put together, sacred sites from all over the world. Some contained inaccuracies, but in context that wasn’t so offensive - to me anyway - as reverence had been shown in putting them all together HOWEVER - people from all over the word were saying stuff like how dare you show xyz and this that and the other site; it is so disrespectful. But when an English person pointed out that the additions to the image of Stonehenge were simply wrong (that in itself didn't bother me) all hell descended, because for some reason (this became quite obvious in the thread) while it was NOT OK to trample upon “OTHER cultures” - as in indigenous peoples from the US and Canada, Buddhists, Hindus etc, Stonehenge was clearly fair game. The only other site that it seems to be considered OK to use as you will was one in Italy. Now Stonehenge – whatever it may have been – was certainly as sacred to the people way back when as the aboriginal sites elsewhere – but no, it’s in the UK and no “other races” were involved so it’s OK. That really annoyed me. Caucasians simply didn’t count, it seemed. I am all for due respect, and I hate cultural appropriation – but this applies to everyone. Or should.

 

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