Notice.

[xxBurningxx]

How is that an "I OWE YOU something" thread, when nothing is given in advance?

There will be no trade unless both sides have what they contracted to.

 

oh, and @burning: there's always potential for conflict where humans trade. It's in our nature.

Haha, yes, definitely in our nature

 

I also agree, I don't think that should be considered an IOU thread. If nothings given in advance (like you said) it isn't technically an IOU.

[rubyshoes]

So, wait.. IOUs that are currently in play are still allowed, right?

What about something like..

I have a CB Gold, I want a Holly iou (5 months away from xmas), and someone pms them, is that not allowed?

 

Or, what about the other way, someone offering their Holly egg (at xmas) for a CB gold IOU?

 

 

 

What about Holiday IOUs in general? Will it no longer be allowed to ask for halloween/xmas/valentines day ious in your "wanted" or in your sig? Or is it only allowed through pm and at both users risk?

 

 

*I don't fully understand this, that's why these Q's are here *

 

 

 

EDIT: Also, is anything that I currently have in my sig that needs to be removed?

IOUs like those wouldn't be allowed.

 

Saying in your signature you except IOUs is fine.

 

 

Whitebaron - it would be best to write up the proposal for the thread and PM it to me or Z so we could see it.

[pinkgothic]

... o_o

 

I'm not sure what to say. That's a whole slew of trades that are being disallowed; I've seen people ask for specific breedings (in fact, I just responded to an IOU breed request today) and I'm not sure how that's supposed to work in future... this is going to discourage all sort of people from interacting.

 

I don't understand this. I'm sure you've felt it necessary (I mean that, I respect you guys completely - moderating is difficult and you do it admirably), but... to be honest, this is taking one of the things I love doing the most away from me in one blow - asking for IOUs and fulfilling IOUs. D: I have a flawless record with them (at least I'm pretty sure of that) and I've never been upset at people who didn't fulfill their part, because I knew the risk was mine to take. And... really, the best part about asking for IOUs was letting people feel trusted. It wasn't even about the item they owed me, it was a statement of mutual trust.

 

I... just don't know.

 

I'm sorry. D: I don't understand what the community's done wrong to force your hand like this. *shrinks*

[brairtrainer]

I've got a clarification question. Lets say I'm trying to find an evengen mate for dragon X...attempts to trade or catch things to breed to make a mate (dragon y) is not going well. Would I be allowed to ask if anyone would be willing to breed me a dragon I need to get hypothetical Y?

 

IF after someone offers to breed me what I need for hypothetical Y, and I want to show them what I have on my scroll and give them a thank you gift it has to move to pm? can't just be done in the thread?

[Starscream]

IRC banned the IOU several months ago. We banned IOU trading and asking for IOU's. Any of that is to be discussed in PM and not in moderator sanctioned or Official channels.

 

We banned this because of problems resulting between users and then users coming to moderators saying "I've been scammed!!!" where it breaks my heart that there are sick bad apples out there, not much we can do. So we deemed it necessary to stop the request for IOU's either in giving or getting.

 

Logically, asking for an IOU, is an IOU trade and therefore should not be on the forums.

 

People aren't going to like it, but it is necessary.

[xxBurningxx]

I've got a clarification question. Lets say I'm trying to find an evengen mate for dragon X...attempts to trade or catch things to breed to make a mate (dragon y) is not going well. Would I be allowed to ask if anyone would be willing to breed me a dragon I need to get hypothetical Y?

 

IF after someone offers to breed me what I need for hypothetical Y, and I want to show them what I have on my scroll and give them a thank you gift it has to move to pm? can't just be done in the thread?

^^

 

This too.

 

What if we're seeking mates, and a person has the right dragons, but aren't able to breed quite yet, and even if they can, end up getting the wrong breed? Is this still considered IOU, even if you don't give the person the dragon until they can breed? And what if the dragon (hatchie) matures before the requested dragon can breed again?

[Moonlight_Eevee]

Well, that's a bummer because what if someone is trading a really rare egg that you need and were asking for three common hatchies that you didn't have? Would you have to discuss it over pms?

[panthera1]

... o_o

 

I'm not sure what to say. That's a whole slew of trades that are being disallowed; I've seen people ask for specific breedings (in fact, I just responded to an IOU breed request today) and I'm not sure how that's supposed to work in future... this is going to discourage all sort of people from interacting.

 

I don't understand this. I'm sure you've felt it necessary (I mean that, I respect you guys completely - moderating is difficult and you do it admirably), but... to be honest, this is taking one of the things I love doing the most away from me in one blow - asking for IOUs and fulfilling IOUs. D: I have a flawless record with them (at least I'm pretty sure of that) and I've never been upset at people who didn't fulfill their part, because I knew the risk was mine to take. And... really, the best part about asking for IOUs was letting people feel trusted. It wasn't even about the item they owed me, it was a statement of mutual trust.

 

I... just don't know.

 

I'm sorry. D: I don't understand what the community's done wrong to force your hand like this. *shrinks*

I don't have much time online the next few days, but even if I did, I don't think I could express my feelings as eloquently as pinkgothic just did! I also enjoy the IOU part of DC, and feel that it's a badge of credibility when I fulfill an IOU, and confirmation of trust when another player follows through on their end. It's a risk, yes, but I agree that it creates a unique form of play and engaging people with your own gameplay.

 

I'll also support the statement above that I have the utmost respect for the Mods, and these forums are one of my favorite places online--in large part due to the hard work of the Mods to make it an enjoyable place. I know there was probably lots of discussion that went into this... I just hope the discussion is still open for some modifications.

[demonicvampiregirl]

So say like a person I know has a holly reserved for me a year or two after this if I don't manage to get one in the mean time and we did this through PMs that is still acceptable right?

 

I have Gift IOUs as well cuz my metalics and tinsels are being a pain.

[Lullakai]

Shouldn't there at least be a thread where holiday IOUs are permitted? It'll save people having to advertise on their sigs/profiles, PMing random people with requests, or posting a trade during the limited holiday breeding and hoping someone has what they're looking for.

[brairtrainer]

IRC banned the IOU several months ago. We banned IOU trading and asking for IOU's. Any of that is to be discussed in PM and not in moderator sanctioned or Official channels.

 

We banned this because of problems resulting between users and then users coming to moderators saying "I've been scammed!!!" where it breaks my heart that there are sick bad apples out there, not much we can do. So we deemed it necessary to stop the request for IOU's either in giving or getting.

 

Logically, asking for an IOU, is an IOU trade and therefore should not be on the forums.

 

People aren't going to like it, but it is necessary.

so assuming that this will follow irc rules telling people we need certain mates and people offering them to breed them is okay?

[rubyshoes]

I've got a clarification question. Lets say I'm trying to find an evengen mate for dragon X...attempts to trade or catch things to breed to make a mate (dragon y) is not going well. Would I be allowed to ask if anyone would be willing to breed me a dragon I need to get hypothetical Y?

 

IF after someone offers to breed me what I need for hypothetical Y, and I want to show them what I have on my scroll and give them a thank you gift it has to move to pm? can't just be done in the thread?

Some of the threads allow asking for gifts of certain lineage and that's fine.

 

If you have a trade where you say you have so and so already on your scroll for this egg that meets your requirements then that is a trade and not an IOU because you already have what you want to give for what you ask for.

 

I'd think the hypothetical question you came up with might work best in PMs.

[gistofeverything]

IRC banned the IOU several months ago. We banned IOU trading and asking for IOU's. Any of that is to be discussed in PM and not in moderator sanctioned or Official channels.

 

We banned this because of problems resulting between users and then users coming to moderators saying "I've been scammed!!!" where it breaks my heart that there are sick bad apples out there, not much we can do. So we deemed it necessary to stop the request for IOU's either in giving or getting.

 

Logically, asking for an IOU, is an IOU trade and therefore should not be on the forums.

 

People aren't going to like it, but it is necessary.

However, could this be handled in a project channel, say for holiday IOU discussion? I mod a holiday gifting thread (if it hasn't disappeared D:), and as far as I can remember, we allowed IOU discussion. How about now?

[Chanilove]

I've got a clarification question. Lets say I'm trying to find an evengen mate for dragon X...attempts to trade or catch things to breed to make a mate (dragon y) is not going well. Would I be allowed to ask if anyone would be willing to breed me a dragon I need to get hypothetical Y?

 

IF after someone offers to breed me what I need for hypothetical Y, and I want to show them what I have on my scroll and give them a thank you gift it has to move to pm? can't just be done in the thread?

As long as you are not offering anything in return at the time, there is no conflict with the rules. You would have to say, "Would anyone be willing to breed me a dragon with X lineage?" You couldn't state that you planned on giving them something in return if you didn't already have it in your possession.

 

I'm with pinkgothic here. :c I suppose I haven't been trading that much lately, anyway, but this is going to prevent me from doing a good half of my trades. I understand why and everything, it's just sad. D:

[brairtrainer]

However, could this be handled in a project channel, say for holiday IOU discussion? I mod a holiday gifting thread (if it hasn't disappeared D:), and as far as I can remember, we allowed IOU discussion. How about now?

This too! I've been searching for christmas mates for certain dragons and I'm trying to see how I could continue to search for specific mates before people have all the dragons bred.

[Thuban]

This is something that has been in effect in the official chat for close to a year now. We do not allow asking for or offering IOUs IN the official channels. People can, and have created channels on the network for doing these types of trades, but its not allowed in the official channels at all.

 

 

When looking for specific lineage types and such, people do tend to go with "pm me for more details" which i imagine could be carried over here as well. Not having IOU trading out in the open does make things a lot harder, but, it gets easier over time. Especially when you find people who hoard the things you can catch.. and can catch the things you hoard

 

 

Clarification (at least for the chat side way we handle this):

 

asking if people can breed certain lineages is ok. offering to trade for babies of said lineages, even better. However you cant ask for ious in the official rooms (so in this case, on the forum directly). What users do in pm, or in usermade channels is their own business. If you want an iou trading channel on the irc, go ahead, but you can not advertise it in the official channels. You are stuck inviting people manually, or making a forum signature to tell people its there. Just keep in mind that if something goes wrong... the mods will not step in and make people follow through on their ious. It is completely at your own risk, so if you dont get what yu are owed.. sorry, but we cant help you.

Edited October 1, 2012 by Thuban

[xxBurningxx]

I agree with pretty much what everyone else is saying: I absolutely respect you mods and whatnot, but this is still upsetting.

 

And like pinkgothic said, IOUs create a unique bond of mutual trust, and although I haven't really been trading very long, the IOUs I've done were fine, and I think most of us understand that it's a risk that we're taking.

 

Hmmm.

 

If it's what must be done, I suppose, it will have to be done.

 

 

[blah]

Well. This is going to hurt a lot of people, especially newer players who simply can't get specific things and work out a deal with someone.

[KrazyKarp]

Guess I'm changing my signature

[xxBurningxx]

Guess I'm changing my signature

I'm pretty sure rubyshoes said advertising in you signature was fine. I think. *sheepish look*

[rubyshoes]

Guess I'm changing my signature

As was said earlier, saying you accept IOUs in your signature is fine.

[bluebell_rose]

While I support it, this will greatly hurt xmas hoilday breeders. How am I supposed to find a suitable trade within 24h? I guess I won't be breeding my yules this year then or my hollies, since I'm no longer allowed to hunt for trades before I can breed.

[salmonbaby]

Mods discussed IOU's in the trading section, it was decided alloying them on the forum was giving the impression they were allowed. Members accept IOU's at their own risk, and will need to do so off the forum or take it to pm.

Rules/ Guidelines, for Site Discussion/Sub-forums.

http://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showtopic=32652

This is a valid point from mods points of view and I agree. With that said, we should be allowed to start a new thread for IOU trade which stated clearly on page 1 (ie the 'rules') that any IOU arrangement is between DC members and DC is NOT responsible for any conflict, unhonest practice etc. And a BIG WARNING sign "Accept IOU at your own risk" should be included in page 1.

 

I am very new to DC compare to most of the experienced and long time players but I have to say, accepting and offering IOU contribute to a big part of my DC playing style. I mean when you just can't get that CB Blusang and someone offer one for 5 common/paper hatchies in return, it is like seeing a light at the end of the tunnel.

 

Please don't take away my light or at least give me another form of light. I don't want to stay the dark.

 

And if an IOU trade thread is not allow after discussion among mods, I can see most people's signautre will just be filled with IOUs info ...

[Lady Artemis]

Wha..?

This is going to affect a whole heck of a lot of trades. Can't say I'm totally for this new rule.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

This is stupid. IOUs are a risk. But we should freely be able to take that risk.

 

I have taken and given many IOUs successfully. If someone fails to deliver, then it's my loss for taking them. But please, please, PLEASE don't force us to have to find backdoor ways to make IOU trades. :/

 

Imagine all the people who find CB Golds and want to trade for Holly IOUs. Poof, can't, unless they discover a magic way to meet off forums. Imagine all the people who catch rares and want to trade them for high amounts of common hatchlings. Nope, can't do that either. Etc etc etc.

 

Everyone on the forums has a brain. They can use that brain to decide whether or not they want to take the risk of an IOU. Please don't play supreme commander on us and make it harder for us to do what most of us are going to do anyway. For my part, whenever I'm trying to get an IOU I just post "PM me" either here or on the forums. People are GOING TO DO THEM ANYWAY. You don't need to make it annoyingly and unneccesarily complicated to do so. -____-

Edited October 1, 2012 by angelicdragonpuppy