Cave: Put new eggs where the last was taken

[codyne]

But there would still be one third of the people clicking for the egg as there are now. That's a lot fewer people to be competing against if you do uncover a rare egg, because everyone who is hovering over the other spots can't get there in time to compete for it.

 

Right now if you take the blocker in the one spot where the new eggs can appear you have all of the people who are hunting going after the rare you uncover.

 

With this suggestion two thirds of those people are hovering over other slots and are out of the competition completely. It suddenly puts the person who took the blocker at a rather strong advantage, at least compared to the situation now.

It doesn't matter how many people are hovering over a spot if they are faster clickers than you. It only takes one to grab the egg.

 

Most of the biomes now have somewhere between 5 - 15 people in them at any given time. That's already few enough people that spreading them out isn't going to make that much difference.

[Lythiaren]

This is all well and good if you have more than one egg slot to fill, but I am often just looking for something nice to fill my last slot. So, when I am that sort of hunter, this suggestion would put me at a disadvantage.

 

But then I do sometimes hunt with several egg slots open and try to grab a blocker and hope there is a rare right behind it. I can see how this suggestion might be good in that situation.

 

So I guess I am really on the fence about this.

Could always coordinate with a friend with space to uncover for you and hit some kind of audio notice like an IM/IRC countdown. You'll still have the edge and your friend gets to populate their scroll with purpose. I know I frequently punt nice finds to a friend of mine who's working toward her gold trophy.

 

It doesn't matter how many people are hovering over a spot if they are faster clickers than you. It only takes one to grab the egg.

And how is that any different from how it is now? Reducing the number of fast people is still better than having all of the fast people crowded in the exact same place. If you miss the one you uncovered yourself, you would have missed it three times faster if it was still in this current queue system.

Edited September 14, 2012 by Lythiaren

[codyne]

And how is that any different from how it is now? Reducing the number of fast people is still better than having all of the fast people crowded in the exact same place. If you miss the one you uncovered yourself, you would have missed it three times faster if it was still in this current queue system.

It isn't different from how it is now, that's my point. The fast clickers will still get the eggs, whether they're spread out over three slots or concentrated on one. The difference is that the slower, less accurate clickers now have only 1/3 the chance they had before of being on top of the next egg that drops, and that much less chance to catch the egg.

Edited September 14, 2012 by codyne

[olympe]

Actually, it might make a lot of difference. Of 15 players, not all other 14 (than me or some other lucky person) will be fast clickers, and chances are that the two or three fast clickers in the bunch are hovering over a different egg.

 

True, the difference in your chances isn't huge, all you get is a bit of an edge - but that's just why the suggestion might work, as it is not game-breaking.

[Ashes The Second]

I think I support this, although I am confused on what the idea is suggesting.

[Lythiaren]

It isn't different from how it is now, that's my point. The fast clickers will still get the eggs, whether they're spread out over three slots or concentrated on one. The difference is that the slower, less accurate clickers now have only 1/3 the chance they had before of being on top of the next egg that drops, and that much less chance to catch the egg.

What olympe said. You're not guaranteed to always have a fast clicker on every egg who's looking for x breed right at time y.

 

In addition to that, I don't see how an egg appearing in any location other than under a particular user's cursor should be a concern to that user at all. If I'm hovering over the middle egg on the coast I'm not going to care what drops on the left or right because I already know I'm out of the running for those two slots. Just as I'm not going to care or complain about any rares that I miss because they dropped in the forest or desert instead. If I move the cursor away to click something nice that appeared on the left, there's a chance that someone will uncover something in the middle that's even nicer, and then I'll miss both as my cursor flails impotently in between the two. I'm on the middle coast egg and that's my focus, period. Thus, anything that drops anywhere else is not my concern because there's no point in crying over spilled milk, or missed eggs. Or did you complain about biomes cutting slow clickers' chances at rares by 5/6?

Edited September 15, 2012 by Lythiaren

[libby2999]

I like this idea so much, it makes so much more sence and adds a little more of a edge to the game!

[randomstranger]

I don't see how an egg appearing in any location other than under a particular user's cursor should be a concern to that user at all.

I do. Eggs move through the cave very slowly sometimes. A player who concentrates on one spot only will effectively be playing at 1/3 the current speed. I'm not a player who hovers, but if I did I would hover on the middle slot purely so I could grab eggs to the left and right more easily. A fast clicker or some well-caffeinated person using similar tactics could certainly snap up a rare egg appearing in any of the three slots.

 

The only advantage anyone will have, fast or not, is that if they take a blocker themselves they'll know which spot to target next (it's nice if you have egg slots to spare, not so nice otherwise). So, we might see more players taking blockers in order to get that advantage. However, they need egg slots to take advantage of their advantage, so my guess is that the blockers will mostly end up on the AP five hours later.

[Pokemonfan13]

Someone on the middle slot wouldn't stand a chance for a rare on the left or right if the person who took the blocker used the click-refresh-click method, since they are clicking IMMEDIATELY upon that slot being cleared [as long as the clearer didn't have abysmally slow internet, but those probably wouldn't be using that method], there wouldn't be a chance for anyone who has to move the mouse.

 

And if it doesn't make a difference as so many claim, why hate on it so much? There's a good chance that it would improve success for those who clear the cave and decrease competition for each individual egg, and if it doesn't change anything, why would it matter if it's this way or the current way?

Edited September 15, 2012 by Pokemonfan13

[kerrikins]

I think this idea makes sense, to be honest. I mean, if you're envisioning eggs stacked outside of a cave, if one is taken then what should be revealed is the egg behind it (in the same slot), not the eggs somehow moving over to reveal an egg in a different spot.

 

So there's the world logic to think about as well, in my opinion.

 

As for clicking advantage, I really don't think that there's a disadvantage to this process over the one we currently have. A person who refreshes+clicks on the spot they're over is going to have an advantage over a person who refreshes+moves+clicks, so I don't think it's going to be the huge disadvantage that some people are worrying about.

[randomstranger]

Someone on the middle slot wouldn't stand a chance for a rare on the left or right if the person who took the blocker used the click-refresh-click method, since they are clicking IMMEDIATELY upon that slot being cleared [as long as the clearer didn't have abysmally slow internet, but those probably wouldn't be using that method], there wouldn't be a chance for anyone who has to move the mouse.

If a slot is moving because someone's taking two or more eggs, a player at another slot has more time to move than they would if only one egg was taken - it takes more time to grab two eggs than one. They may not get there in time for the second egg if it disappears IMMEDIATELY, but there's just as much chance of the third or fourth egg being rare.

 

Anyway, my point is still that people who take blockers will know where to click, but they won't necessarily keep the blockers on their scrolls.

[Lythiaren]

I do. Eggs move through the cave very slowly sometimes. A player who concentrates on one spot only will effectively be playing at 1/3 the current speed. I'm not a player who hovers, but if I did I would hover on the middle slot purely so I could grab eggs to the left and right more easily. A fast clicker or some well-caffeinated person using similar tactics could certainly snap up a rare egg appearing in any of the three slots.

 

The only advantage anyone will have, fast or not, is that if they take a blocker themselves they'll know which spot to target next (it's nice if you have egg slots to spare, not so nice otherwise). So, we might see more players taking blockers in order to get that advantage. However, they need egg slots to take advantage of their advantage, so my guess is that the blockers will mostly end up on the AP five hours later.

This is assuming that all three spots move at the same speed as the last slot does currently. Since the user population of a given biome isn't likely to suddenly triple at the implementation of such a change, the impact on the speed of a given user is minimal. That is, short of mouse travel time (probably less than half a second for an average user unless I'm a super fast mutant) if they choose to try and click an egg in a slot other than the one closest to their mouse cursor.

 

Bluh rethinking. My whole first paragraph up there is garbage but I left it there for anyone who wants to read it and join me in facepalming at it. So assuming the eggs move at the same speed but appear in "random" spots (since you can't predict where the new egg will be) it does indeed make a single spot move 1/3 the current speed. But that reduction in speed also gives a user more time to plan and wind themselves up for a faster click. It also does afford an advantage to people who get things moving themselves, but that's already a valid and current playstyle. Instead of waiting for someone to click, it's quite within your power to just move it along yourself. People will drop eggs into the AP regardless of strategy, and some will just resign themselves to keeping the blockers for reasons ranging from laziness, to the desire to raise a constant stream of eggs without regard to breed, to a desire to help make even the slightest dent in ratios, or some combination of reasons. Your guess is as good as mine but I don't think the AP will be significantly impacted; those who hunt purely by hovering over one egg and spamming F5 will continue to hunt that way as it's just as valid and just as likely to yield something nice. After all, the chance of a rare popping up in any given spot is theoretically the same, independent of the other eggs in the biome as they're randomly distributed throughout the queue.

 

However, the point remains that when you spread out the hunters you also spread out the fast clickers, so therein lies the edge for slower clickers. A fast clicker hovering on the right egg (as users are currently accustomed) will be slower to notice (and by extension, click) the new egg if it appears in the middle, and slower still if they shoot across the screen to the left. While this does not negate the chance of a different fast clicker already hovering over the new egg, it takes that other clicker effectively out of the running as they must take that extra split second to spot that something nice has appeared in a location outside their current focus, recognize it, swing their cursor over and click. Coordinate with a friend and you can trip these people up fairly easily by having one person click one spot and the other clicking some other spot within a few seconds. Those few milliseconds are precious and could well give a slower clicker the extra time they need to make the grab. And with some biomes sporting only 6 people in them during an hourly drop, that tiny edge can easily make the difference.

Edited September 18, 2012 by Lythiaren

[ArynChris]

I think this idea makes sense, to be honest. I mean, if you're envisioning eggs stacked outside of a cave, if one is taken then what should be revealed is the egg behind it (in the same slot), not the eggs somehow moving over to reveal an egg in a different spot.

 

So there's the world logic to think about as well, in my opinion.

^

 

And, as has been pointed out by many people, it evens out how many people are hovering over each slot, which does (at least nominally) increase everyone's chances of getting the egg they click on before someone else. Fast refreshers and fast clickers will always have an advantage in dragcave-- that should be understood within the first week of gameplay, if not sooner-- but there are a lot more players than there once were, and this seems like a reasonable revision to help compensate for that.

 

I do not claim to be any sort of coder, but would it not also take a little bit of the load off the server during holiday drops? Rather than have 100 people click one egg, 99 fail to get it and return to the cave to click another, 99 click the next egg and 98 fail to get it... 100 clicking 3 eggs, 97 fail and go back, you both have the cave moving three times faster (and getting people out of play and off the server 3x faster) and the number of players executing identical commands is cut in thirds. Of course, just having biomes in the first place has done this same thing... but if it works well with the biomes, surely it'll be even better with even further adjustment. *shrug* If that matters.

[boscodelta]

I am neutral, I like the way the cave is now because its easy for me to get what I want. (Most of the time) and its nice to not have to play the guessing game; which egg will disappear? while trying to get a specific egg.

 

But I am for having this change as well, because I just don't mind it that much.

[AsheraAshtoreth]

But there would still be one third of the people clicking for the egg as there are now. That's a lot fewer people to be competing against if you do uncover a rare egg, because everyone who is hovering over the other spots can't get there in time to compete for it.

Right now if you take the blocker in the one spot where the new eggs can appear you have all of the people who are hunting going after the rare you uncover.

With this suggestion two thirds of those people are hovering over other slots and are out of the competition completely. It suddenly puts the person who took the blocker at a rather strong advantage, at least compared to the situation now.

I have suggested such a game mechanism earlier, just with the twist, that after an egg is taken, the three eggs still on the page flip positions randomly. That way, too, only hovering over the right side egg would no longer be the only way to go for a new egg popping up.

Anyway, I like the idea how it is presented now just as well.

 

I do not see any upsides to this, apart from several people having to change their style of catching eggs. Best part of it is maybe, that people grabbing Cave blockers on any position might have a advantage over those people just waiting for a new egg on the right to pop up. I'd really love this too happen.

[stogucheme]

I would not be in favor of this. Having the entire page's text potentially change would ensure I caught nothing. I can barely keep track of all the images on the AP!

[Cinnamin Draconna]

I still say that the best way to get rid of blockers AND remove the advantage from the fast clickers... is to refresh all 3 eggs at once. If every refresh presented you with 3 new eggs, you'd never know which slot would have what. No one would be hovering over a slot, and no one would have an advantage or be disadvantaged.

[Obscure_Trash]

If you're talking about the egg shuffle, didn't that not work when we implemented it? The non-blockers got taken right away, leaving behind a pile of blockers that everyone would just leave alone until new eggs appeared and they had another chance for non-blockers and the pile of blockers would just keep growing and growing.

 

Unless you just mean to refresh the three eggs waiting to be taken.

So say you have: balloon mint guardian

Next refresh, nothing is taken, but they show up: mint guardian balloon

Balloon gets taken and is replaced with a daydream: guardian daydream mint

Which is an interesting thought.

 

~

 

Putting the new egg where the last taken would make sense. I don't cave hunt a lot because I just can't compete with all the users we have now and don't have the patience when there are less users on, anyway, (plus, I love browsing lineages) so I guess I don't have a huge preference either way.

[Cinnamin Draconna]

The 'egg shuffle' was implemented in the AP, not the main cave.. and it was a dynamic graphic which worked just like the AP. The more popular eggs would always be taken first, as usual.

 

No, what I'm suggesting is an actual REFRESH.

First look you have eggs A, B & C.

Refresh, you get eggs D, E & F.

Refresh again, and you get G, H & I.

 

Keep refreshing and the untaken eggs will come back, but in no particular order. The refresh would give you 3 different eggs each time.. some you may have seen before, some you may not have seen. Presentation and egg slot would be totally random.. until you ran out of eggs for that hour.

 

And since there's no guarantee of a rare at any time, when they would show up would also be totally random. It would just depend on what eggs the cave produced for that hour. In fact, with the total randomness of presentation.. and how refreshing over and over can get so boring.. folk might actually MISS a rare, which would then show up later for someone else to try for.

 

But total randomness for egg presentation and egg slot would be more fair than anything else I can think of.

Edited October 18, 2012 by Cinnamin Draconna

[StormWizard212]

IF mossy eggs has any chance I'd prefer it to stay how it is since it would allow people to take eggs but still have two going towards moss growth, otherwise I'm neutral.

This is a good point. I love the idea of mossy eggs and would love to see that implemented. But if not, then I'm not really fussed which spots the eggs show up in in the cave.

[gjhhhhhh]

I'm not so sure... The point of DC is getting dragon eggs and raising them to adulthood. If you don't get an egg you want you could always go to a breeding thread where they gift eggs to unfortunate grabbers. Otherwise, you're gonna have to deal with it.

[PointOfOrigin]

Searched for it, and I didn't get anything similar in the first few pages.

 

So, my suggestion is really simple. Right now, whenever we click any of the three eggs in a biome, it's always the spot at the right that shows new egg.

 

I'd like to see this changed. Basically, I'd prefer it if the spot that had an egg taken from it got a new egg.

 

Right now, as it is, all of the players are hovering over the last spot. And when somebody does pick up a blocker, the chances are that the other people will pick up an egg, while the person who sacrificed their empty slot walks away with nothing.

 

This would give the person picking up an egg advantage since they would know where and when the new egg would appear. It would also, I hope, make people less reluctant to pick up a blocker egg and move biomes faster.

 

Thoughts?

[Fuzzbucket]

I'm not sure that's true, though I had always assumed that too. I was doing the hover thing yesterday and the egg I was hovering over stayed the same and a SILVER leapt into the centre spot (and leapt straight out before I could move...)

[PointOfOrigin]

I'm not sure that's true, though I had always assumed that too. I was doing the hover thing yesterday and the egg I was hovering over stayed the same and a SILVER leapt into the centre spot (and leapt straight out before I could move...)

It does happen sometimes right at the beginning of the drop. Me, for example, always get only one egg showing up in the coast, then two after refresh and finally three eggs. And then they shift spots around. And I'm fairly sure that's not my computer's fault - it never happens in any other biomes.

 

But, later it's always that one spot. And don't forget, in your case, two persons could have picked an egg at the same time - two egg slots free, one gets silver the other gets blocker. It's perfectly possible.

Edited March 18, 2013 by PointOfOrigin

[angelicdragonpuppy]

I kinda like it how it is right now. It's rather comforting to know exactly where all the new stuff is coming in, especially when there's a new release and, as you said, blockers pile up on the left side. If I had to constantly zing back and forth looking for where that new egg was going to pop I'd get annoyed pretty fast. Would rather be in the right spot and miss it then not be in the right spot at all.