Posted January 3, 2013 I disagree with the idea to put an RP-friendly message up. The whole point is that the message needs to be clear and easy to understand. If my reaction to reading it is, "What the heck?" it doesn't help much. I think the suggested RP-style messages are ok, no ? Share this post Link to post
Posted January 3, 2013 (edited) I think the suggested RP-style messages are ok, no ? "You pick up a scroll labeled _X_ and see sketches and information about dragons. There is a note on the scroll that says 'Please warm my eggs and feed the hatchlings.' This is the accepting aid message. "You pick up a scroll labeled _X_ and see sketches and information about dragons. There is a note on the scroll that says 'Please do not feed the dragons, they are on a strict diet to keep them healthy.' -This is the not accepting aid message Neither of those are. I guarantee someone will post on the forums, "How do you warm/feed a dragon?" There would, after all, be a message that implies it's possible to do just that (and against someone's will no less). Meanwhile, a bunch of people will be adding dragons to fansites with no idea that's what the message forbids. If you choose to use an unclear message, then you've really got no right to complain when a well-meaning individual (who doesn't understand your meaning) tries to help you. --- Off-topic: I've seen several people complaining that someone keeps adding their dragons to fansites. Just want to point out that there are several fansites that do not remove fogged dragons automatically. You have to manually remove them. Edited January 3, 2013 by rayden54 Share this post Link to post
Posted January 3, 2013 If you choose to use an unclear message, then you've really got no right to complain when a well-meaning individual (who doesn't understand your meaning) tries to help you. This, this, a thousand times this. It would absolutely not be okay to swap one unclear message for another unclear message. I also disagree with using 'RP-friendly' messages for this. The message at the top of your own view scroll page currently reads 'If you would like to show your scroll to others, give them the following link:' and then there's a text box with the url of your scroll. If it's okay to be talking about links and showing URLs, we can certainly have a clear, concise message about posting people's dragons on other sites, and not some namby-pamby wishy-washy RP nonsense about 'aid' or 'feeding' or whatever. I feel very strongly about this. Share this post Link to post
Posted January 3, 2013 If you want a clear, non RP message, than "websites" would be better than "fansites". Not everyone uses fansites, and there's no guarantee that the well-meaning person isn't a forum poster and will just add your eggs to their brood in their sig, thinking that it's ok since they're not in a fansite. Share this post Link to post
Posted January 3, 2013 "Please don't try to help me raise my dragons by posting the eggs or hatchlings anywhere without my permission." Share this post Link to post
Posted January 3, 2013 (edited) Off-topic: I've seen several people complaining that someone keeps adding their dragons to fansites. Just want to point out that there are several fansites that do not remove fogged dragons automatically. You have to manually remove them. Just to point out, it's VERY possible that people DO remove their eggs from sites--and come back later to find them re-added. Re: RP-friendly message: I think it's possible to have an RP-friendly message that's clear. Perhaps something like "Please don't try to help raise my dragons" and "I don't mind help raising my dragons" or something like that, with the whole "it's against the rules" thing added in to the ones that don't accept aid? Edited January 3, 2013 by KageSora Share this post Link to post
Posted January 3, 2013 Neither of those are. I guarantee someone will post on the forums, "How do you warm/feed a dragon?" There would, after all, be a message that implies it's possible to do just that (and against someone's will no less). Meanwhile, a bunch of people will be adding dragons to fansites with no idea that's what the message forbids. If you choose to use an unclear message, then you've really got no right to complain when a well-meaning individual (who doesn't understand your meaning) tries to help you. --- Off-topic: I've seen several people complaining that someone keeps adding their dragons to fansites. Just want to point out that there are several fansites that do not remove fogged dragons automatically. You have to manually remove them. Something to help fix the problem you stated. Have in help how views raise a dragon and explain views are like warming an egg/feeding a hatchling. I don't see how those would be too confusing to add to a faq. Share this post Link to post
Posted January 4, 2013 Just to point out, it's VERY possible that people DO remove their eggs from sites--and come back later to find them re-added. Re: RP-friendly message: I think it's possible to have an RP-friendly message that's clear. Perhaps something like "Please don't try to help raise my dragons" and "I don't mind help raising my dragons" or something like that, with the whole "it's against the rules" thing added in to the ones that don't accept aid? I'd personally suggest trying for messages that are different length/very different in formatting and use different words. That way someone who is skimming is less likely to think it's the other message. So something like: "I don't mind help raising my dragons" [yours] "I am proud to say that I raise my dragons all by myself, please don't try to help since it won't be welcomed" Mine is probably longer than it needs to be, but you get the idea. Share this post Link to post
Posted January 4, 2013 Since I think it would be merged with this thread: I'd like to suggest the ability to add the accepting aid/not accepting aid message on a PER DRAGON basis. I might want someone to add Dragon X to a hatchery while I'm out of town. That doesn't mean I want someone to add Dragon Y, that's just been bred, to one. Yes, I can fog Dragon Y, but dragons can't be both fogged AND up for trade so there's still a problem. It won't help with viewbombers (none of this will), but I might consider "accepting aid" if I can do so selectively. The message could be something like "This user allows some of their eggs to be added to fansites. Please check individual egg pages for more information." I do think the message needs to be changed to something more concrete. Like "Do not add this egg to fansites" rather than "accepting/not accepting aid" messages. I didn't know what it meant by "accepting aid" for quite some time. I disagree with the idea to put an RP-friendly message up. The whole point is that the message needs to be clear and easy to understand. If my reaction to reading it is, "What the heck?" it doesn't help much. If you have any suggestions on the message you'd prefer please type it out and I can put it into the first post for people to see. If you guys don't like the current suggestions please submit your own so we can have more choices and try to get one everyone likes. To me prefer one that is simple and says "I do not accept any help with my dragon hatchlings or eggs. Please do not add them to any website/forum as it is against the rules to do so without the users permission." but I figure that's to long! Share this post Link to post
Posted January 4, 2013 Re: RP-friendly message: I think it's possible to have an RP-friendly message that's clear. Perhaps something like "Please don't try to help raise my dragons" and "I don't mind help raising my dragons" or something like that, with the whole "it's against the rules" thing added in to the ones that don't accept aid? My main issue with this (and with the current not-accepting-aid message, to be honest) is that well-meaning persons might get confused and think that by don't help, you also mean don't give views. As in STAY AWAY FROM MY DRAGONS OR YOU WILL BE BANNED RAUGH. The only way I think it can be clear is if you say something along the lines of "please don't post them on other websites," as that shows that yes, you like views, just don't add them to other sites, please. That being said... why not have the best of BOTH worlds? Give us six messages: RP-friendly and technical versions of not accepting aid, neutral on aid, and accepting aid. Then everyone could choose their favorite version, and if people who favor the RP friendly ones notice their eggs still ending up in unwanted places, it's up to them if they want to try switching to the technical message to see if that helps with the issue. Share this post Link to post
Posted January 4, 2013 My main issue with this (and with the current not-accepting-aid message, to be honest) is that well-meaning persons might get confused and think that by don't help, you also mean don't give views. As in STAY AWAY FROM MY DRAGONS OR YOU WILL BE BANNED RAUGH. The only way I think it can be clear is if you say something along the lines of "please don't post them on other websites," as that shows that yes, you like views, just don't add them to other sites, please. That being said... why not have the best of BOTH worlds? Give us six messages: RP-friendly and technical versions of not accepting aid, neutral on aid, and accepting aid. Then everyone could choose their favorite version, and if people who favor the RP friendly ones notice their eggs still ending up in unwanted places, it's up to them if they want to try switching to the technical message to see if that helps with the issue. That honestly sounds the best, allowing us to make choices between what we think works/does not work. Share this post Link to post
Posted January 4, 2013 I'd prefer a choice of a few messages, then we can choose the one we want on our scrolls. Sounds fair to me. Although messages that are not consistent on all scrolls could cause some confusion amongst newer players - if one person puts an RP-style message like "please don't warm the eggs" and another puts "not accepting aid", a new player might not know they mean the same. Share this post Link to post
Posted January 4, 2013 I'd prefer a choice of a few messages, then we can choose the one we want on our scrolls. Sounds fair to me. Although messages that are not consistent on all scrolls could cause some confusion amongst newer players - if one person puts an RP-style message like "please don't warm the eggs" and another puts "not accepting aid", a new player might not know they mean the same. which is one reason I suggested that help mention kinda how views work rp style so the new be can come in understanding. Share this post Link to post
Posted January 4, 2013 I'd prefer a choice of a few messages, then we can choose the one we want on our scrolls. Sounds fair to me. Although messages that are not consistent on all scrolls could cause some confusion amongst newer players - if one person puts an RP-style message like "please don't warm the eggs" and another puts "not accepting aid", a new player might not know they mean the same. I really hate to keep harping on this, but a new player might not know what they mean at all, nevermind that they mean the same thing. Neither one of those obviously means 'don't put my eggs on other sites.' We forumgoes/experienced players have a huge advantage in this discussion, which is that we already know what the vague message on the egg pages means, but new users or non-forum-users who have never noticed it or have never come on here to ask what it means could be going around blithely helping people raise their dragons without ever realizing that they shouldn't do it--because the message does not actually say what is forbidden. We have kids on here, we have nonnative english speakers, we have people who don't speak english at all. The message must say exactly what it means. "Please note that is is against the site rules to post another user's dragons on any other website without their permission." "The owner of this scroll accepts help with posting their dragons on other websites." Share this post Link to post
Posted January 4, 2013 I was going to suggest that we could write our own message, but that would mean they'd have to be reviewed or something. maybe you guys can work on this idea. Share this post Link to post
Posted January 4, 2013 However that message gets there and whatever it says - PLEASE can we have one on our scrolls ? I'd be fine with the messages we have now, but up front as well as on the individual pages. Share this post Link to post
Posted January 4, 2013 I was going to suggest that we could write our own message, but that would mean they'd have to be reviewed or something. maybe you guys can work on this idea. While that is a good idea on it's own it wouldn't work so well. One the amount of people who'd submit some weird type of message or chat speak and the amount of time it would take for them to be reviewed it would be best for a few options to pick from. Also forgot to mention it from rayden54s idea I think that should be a option as well. Short version: Multiple message options Options to make it for select eggs/hatchlings as well. (Also on the top of the scrolls as if you put it on the page it's probably gonna be missed. Share this post Link to post
Posted January 8, 2013 *shrugs* So one person insists that this suggestion is "evil" and "unfriendly". So what? It's easy to see that the majority of people in this thread are in support of this idea. Is there really a reason to try to convince that one person, when you guys have been doing that for pages with no luck? Forget about it. Thank you and mod lecture time. This is not dragon requests. This is suggestions/requests. People do not need to provide concrit in this section. I am a big advocate of suggestions being a looser place where users may just post "I like it and want it" or "I don't like it and don't want it" without any other reason than besides that's what they think. If someone expresses an opinion you don't understand, you are free to ask for clarification. But if they don't want to answer them, badgering them is rude and unnecessary. If someone expresses an opinion you disagree with, you are free to post why, but you may not demand an answer. You have no expectation of an answer or an explanation. Quite frankly, the attitudes in this thread did a great deal in trying to turn me off of the suggestion and especially turn me off of posting as a user if users are persistent in badgering one user because they hold a different opinion. The behavior was unacceptable and borderline spam. Once you ask and a user declines to answer, that's the end of it. Now. I have never been in favor of a rough and obtrusive message. I agree. Standoffish messages such as "Don't ever help this user ever. They don't want or need help" are a huge turnoff. But the placement in the mockup along those lines was okay. Even though I am in favor of more message options as that seems a happy medium, I don't like messages that come off as rude and make other users feel like they've done something wrong or that if they met the scroll owner, would end up in a fight. I did vote yes to this, as long as it's optional and as long as the messages aren't rude or overdone. I thought this suggestion: Thinking about what other people have said I'd like to offer these lines of text. "You pick up a scroll labeled _X_ and see sketches and information about dragons. The Dragon Keeper Leaders would like to remind you that it is forbidden to help raise others dragons without permission." Default, mostly will be used by newbes or people who don't want to change it "You pick up a scroll labeled _X_ and see sketches and information about dragons. There is a note on the scroll that says 'Please warm my eggs and feed the hatchlings.' This is the accepting aid message. "You pick up a scroll labeled _X_ and see sketches and information about dragons. There is a note on the scroll that says 'Please do not feed the dragons, they are on a strict diet to keep them healthy.' -This is the not accepting aid message was a good in between and with this wouldn't mind if this wasn't optional if done like this. Share this post Link to post
Posted January 8, 2013 Socky - as I said when those were suggested, I think the accepting should read "You may warm my eggs and feed the hatchlings." Because otherwise everyone dropping by may decide to add everything to every fan site, with - well.... Share this post Link to post
Posted January 8, 2013 (edited) How about: "You may warm my eggs and feed the hatchlings if they look cold and hungry." Sock, I understand your point, but suggestions need concrit as much as dragons do. It turns out in this case that the person just didn't understand the suggestion and once he internalized the explanations he was given he at least became neutral on the subject. But if there had been a legit complaint against the idea and all the person said was "I don't like it", how can the suggestion be improved with that? It could very well be something that could be changed and the problem gotten rid of, but without a reason for the dislike given it can't be fixed. If reasons aren't given [especially in an otherwise popular thread] the person is also likely to be dismissed as a troll, even if there is a problem with the suggestion that only they see. Edited January 8, 2013 by Pokemonfan13 Share this post Link to post
Posted January 9, 2013 Both of those text suggestions sound okay to me. :3 ~ If someone doesn't want to give concrit, they don't need to. This is a fun, free pixel collecting site. What's wrong with just having an opinion on what the suggestion will look like or do for them? If someone doesn't want to provide concrit, what is really the problem? If they just don't like the suggestion because they feel it won't add to their gaming suggestion or may degrade their experience simply because they don't like it, how are they supposed to give concrit? This isn't some piece of animal art where they can see where the mistakes in lining or coloring or anatomy is. This is an idea that they don't think they need and so don't want. What is there to give concrit on for that? If they can't give concrit or don't want to, don't worry about it. Let TJ see the opinions and take that into account. /shrug Share this post Link to post
Posted January 9, 2013 I might be better at coming up with reasons than most, but to me if you can't come up with a reason it's because you went with your gut instinct rather than actually thinking about why you don't like it. I always try to give a reason when I don't like something here, if nothing else because I know that posts that are just "I don't like it", unless that sentiment is the vast majority, tend to be ignored. And even in threads where the overwhelming sentiment is negative *coughgoldcough* it can still plow along as if the majority liked it when it's the opposite. Share this post Link to post
Posted January 9, 2013 Actually I am fine with "dun like". When, however, someone says something is evil and would break the game, I do want to know what on earth they mean. They MIGHT always be right. I need to know that stuff ! Share this post Link to post
Posted January 9, 2013 Actually I am fine with "dun like". When, however, someone says something is evil and would break the game, I do want to know what on earth they mean. They MIGHT always be right. I need to know that stuff ! Agree with this, in a sense. I got tired of all the back-and-forth there at the beginning, but really, if someone seems to feel so strongly that a suggestion is "evil", people in favor of the suggestion are going to want to know why. Is there something that can be changed to make it better, is there some glaring error that we aren't seeing? "I don't like it" and "this is completely evil" are fairly different. Anyways, OT, I really really hope TJ will agree with us here. It won't *stop* deliberate viewbombing, but maybe a message that has more chance of being seen will at least stop those who "think" they are helping. Share this post Link to post
Posted January 9, 2013 I agree that just saying your opinion is fine--you don't need to give crits. However, if you repeatedly come back to the subject and insist that it is horrible or game-breaking or hideous or ugly or stupid or whatever else you might think it is, or you insist on treating your opinion as "fact", or you just refuse to accept that your opinion won't instantly change things... In that case I really think you need to give feedback to justify it. If you just pop in and say "I do(n't) like this" and never come back, or you counter once or twice with "I just do(n't). That's all." and leave it at that, that's fine. So, to me, the more that you insist on repeating how you do(n't) like something, the more you need to give some kind of justification--especially if you're using very strong wording and have a very strong position on it. Share this post Link to post
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