Rules/ Guidelines, for Site Discussion/Sub-forums.

[_Z_]

http://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showt...dpost&p=6535776

 

Blacklists in Signatures and or profiles are unacceptable. If you wish to keep blacklists please do it off the forum.

 

Members that have Blacklists please remove them.

[Snowytoshi]

Thanks Z! I've been wondering about that

[rubyshoes]

Thanks for posting the update.

[_Z_]

Please feel free to ask questions, if you do not understand the update.

[Ponystar17]

Quick question... Do we just PM a mod if we see somebody with a blacklist in their signature/profile? Because I don't think there's a report button there. And also, how long should I wait after this update before I start reporting people if they have them?

One last thing, so 'I will not trade with X players' lists in profiles count as blacklists? I've seen a fair few, but I'm not really sure if they count.

Edited August 28, 2012 by Ponystar17

[Xythus]

I have some questions too:

 

1. If there is a link that potentially leads to a site with a blacklist, even though its not on the site or forums, is that still allowed? (ex: breeders cave, google docs.)

2. This discludes the projects/trading center blacklists that lists users who have broken rules, right? When you say blacklist, I'm assuming for trading and IOUs only?

[rubyshoes]

Quick question... Do we just PM a mod if we see somebody with a blacklist in their signature/profile? Because I don't think there's a report button there. And also, how long should I wait after this update before I start reporting people if they have them?

One last thing, so 'I will not trade with X players' lists in profiles count as blacklists? I've seen a fair few, but I'm not really sure if they count.

A PM is fine or if you notice one of their posts you can report there with a comment saying that there is a blacklist in their profile/signature.

 

Wait maybe a couple of days before you start reporting to give them a chance to remove it.

 

I will not trade with X sounds like a blacklist to me but I'd also like to see other opinions on that.

 

 

Xythus - I'm not ignoring you Those are things we are still discussing and we will get back to that question.

[Obscure_Trash]

I will not trade with X sounds like a blacklist to me, too. If a user doesn't want to trade with another user, that is fine, but it is their own personal business; it does not need to be displayed on the forum. :3

 

I think that blacklist falls under calling others out, which is not allowed because of the board rules:

 

Respect Others

It isn't possible to get far in the world if you refuse to respect others. Treat others kindly, don't insult them, and others will do the same in return. If you refuse to treat others well, then you will get not only a warning, but a bad reputation, which opens the door for more negativity.

 

While we are now allowed to post links that contain inappropriate language with a warning included, this doesn't mean we can link inappropriate content with a warning and I don't think it should mean we can link rudeness to other users, with or without a warning.

 

Again, if you want to keep a personal list of people you won't trade with, that is fine. But that should stay personal.

[cladus]

Xythus - I'm not ignoring you  Those are things we are still discussing and we will get back to that question.

Great because I also want to find out about that.

[cladus]

Also I have seen some trading projects which have blacklists, Is that allowed?

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Uh... why? If someone doesn't want to trade with someone, why on earth can't they mention such in their profile? If someone had cheated me, I'd want a nice on-site note to 1) remind me not to trade with them again, 2) let them KNOW I don't want to trade with them and 3) give other people some slight clue that they might not be the most reliable.

 

If it's an issue of reputable people getting falsely accused, then I'm sure the truth will still make itself known.

 

And, as Xythus said, a lot of gifting centers use blacklists as a wise and helpful thing. Having to root around to find that list--especially for donors who probably don't have easy access to it like the project's managers do--would be pretty rough.

Edited August 28, 2012 by angelicdragonpuppy

[rubyshoes]

Also I have seen some trading projects which have blacklists, Is that allowed?

That is one of the things we are still discussing.

[Snowytoshi]

I will not trade with X sounds like a blacklist to me but I'd also like to see other opinions on that.

 

 

Xythus - I'm not ignoring you Those are things we are still discussing and we will get back to that question.

If I may offer my opinion?

 

I will not trade with X: If X is a player's username, then in my opinion that would count. But if X is something along the lines of 'I will not trade with people who can't say please' then that's a rule and it should be their choice to follow through.

 

Xythus Q1: I think that should count.

 

Xythus Q2: I don't think this should count. By doing that it allows gifters to know if that person can actually request from that group. Not to mention that the moderators of that thread need an easily accessible blacklist.

[rubyshoes]

 

angelicdemonpuppy - Sock covered why pretty well in her post.

Edited August 28, 2012 by rubyshoes

[Obscure_Trash]

Uh... why? If someone doesn't want to trade with someone, why on earth can't they mention such in their profile? If someone had cheated me, I'd want a nice on-site note to 1) remind me not to trade with them again, 2) let them KNOW I don't want to trade with them and 3) give other people some slight clue that they might not be the most reliable.

 

Thanks, ruby. x3

 

I'll also mention: If you want it on site, put it on your notepad under My Controls. That is on site and private.

Edited August 28, 2012 by SockPuppet Strangler

[cladus]

Uh... why? If someone doesn't want to trade with someone, why on earth can't they mention such in their profile? If someone had cheated me, I'd want a nice on-site note to 1) remind me not to trade with them again, 2) let them KNOW I don't want to trade with them and 3) give other people some slight clue that they might not be the most reliable.

 

If it's an issue of reputable people getting falsely accused, then I'm sure the truth will still make itself known.

 

And, as Xythus said, a lot of gifting centers use blacklists as a wise and helpful thing. Having to root around to find that list--especially for donors who probably don't have easy access to it like the project's managers do--would be pretty rough.

As bad as they may of scammed you it does not give you the right to discredit them like that!

and sometimes the truth is not always revealed.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

As bad as they may of scammed you it does not give you the right to discredit them like that!

Sooooo if someone lies to you you can't call them what they are? Curious. If I ever see you about to trade with someone who has cheated me, I'll be sure not to mention it to you.

 

But meh, as long as gifting groups can keep up their blacklists I guess I won't complain too loudly.

Edited August 28, 2012 by angelicdragonpuppy

[cladus]

Sooooo if someone lies to you you can't call them what they are? Curious.

You can call them out for it, As bad as they did something you can stoop to their level.

But meh, as long as gifting groups can keep up their blacklists I guess I won't complain too loudly.

That's being decided.

[rubyshoes]

Bringing this back to the top of the page so that members have a better chance of seeing it.

[Chanilove]

Are you guys open to user feedback on project blacklisting? I don't want to spam this up and get in trouble or PM one of you and be a nuisance, but I have thoughts on this I'd like to express. :c If this is going to be a mod-only decision I'll step aside and let you guys do your thing, but if you're open to user feedback I have some of it. >.>

[rubyshoes]

Are you guys open to user feedback on project blacklisting? I don't want to spam this up and get in trouble or PM one of you and be a nuisance, but I have thoughts on this I'd like to express. :c If this is going to be a mod-only decision I'll step aside and let you guys do your thing, but if you're open to user feedback I have some of it. >.>

I'd like to hear member comments/feedback on thread/project blacklisting.

[Chanilove]

Whew! Okay, so here are my thoughts on this:

 

At first, this frightened me a great deal. To clarify, I don't harbor hatred for anyone I've blacklisted, be it on a personal level or as a project moderator. When I blacklist someone it is with the pure intention of making sure the donors and other moderators in my thread are not needlessly disrespected, either by constant rule-breaking or the mistreatment of gifts. I do not wish to publicly humiliate them or get them blacklisted by other threads through this, I just want to guard my donors (I'm rather protective of them!) That being said, I think a blacklist is essential to a project account. Fortunately, as Sock has said, we have little notepads on our accounts that can allow us to store the information. It would be no more a chore to check that notepad's private blacklist than to dig up the OP and look at the public blacklist.

 

The only problem with this is that the donors do not have access to it (again, this was mentioned earlier, just reiterating.) For a project like the BSA Gifters, this is not a problem, because giftees for my project must be on a list in order to receive anything. As long as my fellow moderators and myself check the project's notepad every time we add someone new, we don't run the risk of having more gifts mishandled.

 

I can't think of any projects where this new rule could be abused, but I'm sure there's at least one. Perhaps the rule can be null for any threads where it could potentially be exploited, if there are any? It could be required that you have a moderator's permission to have a blacklist for your project.

 

Again, this is only if such a project exists. I think most of them primarily use lists, but there are a few I've never even glanced at, so I can't be sure.

 

Also! I have a question. Say this rule goes through and I move the BSA Gifters' blacklist to our project notepad. If we PM a user saying that they are blacklisted, add them to the blacklist, and they post in that thread anyway, would this be reportable?

Edited August 29, 2012 by Chanilove

[Snowytoshi]

But what if a donor just spends most of them waiting for others to PM them? And then someone who is blacklisted shoots them a PM and says "Hi! I'm on the red list at BSA Gifters. Can you breed me one?" Then the gifter has no way to confirm if this person is eligible, so they just think hey why not?

 

I know that isn't very responsible on the part of the donor, but it is something to consider.

[blackdragon71]

To clarify, I don't harbor hatred for anyone I've blacklisted, be it on a personal level or as a project moderator. When I blacklist someone it is with the pure intention of making sure the donors and other moderators in my thread are not needlessly disrespected, either by constant rule-breaking or the mistreatment of gifts. I do not wish to publicly humiliate them or get them blacklisted by other threads through this, I just want to guard my donors (I'm rather protective of them!) That being said, I think a blacklist is essential to a project account.

 

The only problem with this is that the donors do not have access to it (again, this was mentioned earlier, just reiterating.)

I share Chanilove's concern for this reason, as well. Invariably, and while it isn't a common occurrence, thankfully, it still happens that some people show a level of ingratitude and thoughtlessness by not realizing that gifters spend time and sacrifice their own scroll goals to give things that other people have asked for only to have that gift thrown back in their faces due to a 'bad' lineage, not being CB, given away to yet another player not intended, etc. This is often a deal-breaker according to several gifting-thread rules and regs, as well as some lineage requirements. It hurts feelings, it definitely makes for the entire reason people keep blacklists in the first place, and it's wrong. I can understand why it shouldn't be kept on a public profile, as a matter of 'calling someone out,' but I do think that project heads should be allowed to keep them, to protect those who contribute to the community by giving to those less fortunate who do show appreciation for the generosity of others.

[drusharte]

But what if a donor just spends most of them waiting for others to PM them? And then someone who is blacklisted shoots them a PM and says "Hi! I'm on the red list at BSA Gifters. Can you breed me one?" Then the gifter has no way to confirm if this person is eligible, so they just think hey why not?

 

I know that isn't very responsible on the part of the donor, but it is something to consider.

I agree, although I want to debunk that 'donor was irresponsible' thing a little, because while it's true - sometimes, not thoroughly checking a requester's background is because as a donor, you trust that whoever's PM'ing you for an egg via a program has already been vetted and cleared. So there isn't much question about bumping up the request to priority, or giving away a more valuable egg.

 

And if there are multiple requests coming in, actively hunting down scrolls, posts, requests, etc. can take time, which is pretty much the reason lists are made public. Public name-and-shame lists on projects are also... it's like, they're not only information lists rated by severity(there are graylists and secondary lists too), they're also a form of punishment, and a punishment isn't going to have any effect if it's never meted out.