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Snowytoshi

Rabbits

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I used to have a rabbit when I was around 5 or 6 years old. It was actually my cousin's rabbit, but I helped take care of it. I remember that it had black fur and red eyes. I don't think it lived very long. It died, and I think it was because it got sick.

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I'm a rabbit breeder. Well, rabbit and rodent actually. And I've had it happen several times that someone takes it into their head that I'm a horrible person for 'making a profit' or 'causing animal overpopulation'.

 

I answer them simply.

 

If someone is going to go to a store, and buy a hamster, or a rabbit, or any other animal, isn't it better that they buy an animal that was born locally and whose parents have a relatively good life, rather than one born in an animal mill in another country where there are no animal cruelty laws? Where they are routinely thrown ALIVE into an incinerator, or worse? Where water is withheld to reduce urine production?

 

At least mine are fed, watered, and humanely killed at the end of their lives.

 

The stores here have two choices. Buy from me. Or buy from a mill. They prefer to buy from me. No oops litters. Animals that are handled before they get to the store. And someone they can call if there are problems.

 

Would it be better if people didn't go to pet stores, and actually WANTED the animal they purchased for the duration of its life? Absolutely. And I totally support pound adoptions and buying from local breeders. But face it. How many people think "I should find a private breeder and do some research" instaed of "oh, how cute in the store, buy now!"?

 

You tell me, who is the bigger problem? The impulse buyer, or the breeder?

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<quotes below>

I'm going to answer this from the perspective of someone who works at a shelter.

 

I'm a rabbit breeder. Well, rabbit and rodent actually. And I've had it happen several times that someone takes it into their head that I'm a horrible person for 'making a profit' or 'causing animal overpopulation'.

 

I'm going to start off by saying that I do not think of breeders as horrible people. I believe that there are good breeders and bad breeders, but that the act of breeding does more harm then good.

 

I answer them simply.

If someone is going to go to a store, and buy a hamster, or a rabbit, or any other animal, isn't it better that they buy an animal that was born locally and whose parents have a relatively good life, rather than one born in an animal mill in another country where there are no animal cruelty laws? Where they are routinely thrown ALIVE into an incinerator, or worse? Where water is withheld to reduce urine production?

 

I am well aware of what happens in animal mills and I would certainly prefer that they do not exist. But prefer for people to buy at a pet store that buys from a breeder over an animal mill? I would rather that they go to a shelter. Large rabbit shelters have to refuse hundreds of rabbits every year because their foster homes are full or they have no more space. This lack of space is caused by the amount of rabbits breeders put into the system. My shelter is a relatively small shelter, but last August we turnd away five rabbits in one week. We could not accept them because no one was adopting our other rabbits because of the 4H fair.

 

We have no pet stores selling rabbits in our area so all rabbits come in from breeders. I have seen rabbits who were left to die in outdoor hutches, allowed to live out their lives in such poor dietary conditions that their backs broke, whose fur was died blue, ones with sores on their feet. I have seen a twelve pound rabbit confined to a cage that didn't allow her to lie down, living in filth four inches thick. I have gone to a 4H show (my friends brought me) and saw a rabbit lying on metal wires with no bedding.

 

At least mine are fed, watered, and humanely killed at the end of their lives.

What size cages do they live in? Are they allowed at least two hours out of their cages each day? Are they provided with social interaction, toys, and handling? Food, water, and being humanely killed does not constitute a good life.

 

 

Would it be better if people didn't go to pet stores, and actually WANTED the animal they purchased for the duration of its life? Absolutely. And I totally support pound adoptions and buying from local breeders. But face it. How many people think "I should find a private breeder and do some research" instaed of "oh, how cute in the store, buy now!"?

 

Which is why I don't purchase animals at pet stores and why I suport pet stores that do not sell animals.

 

You tell me, who is the bigger problem? The impulse buyer, or the breeder?

 

The breeders are feeding the impulse buyers and the impulse buyers are funding the breeders.

Edited by Snowytoshi

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I have three bunnies. A 7-year old Holland Lop, a 2-year old mixed breed (Actually more of an "Oops bunny") and an almost-1 lilac. the holland and lilac live in wire cages, but they both have smooth surfaces to stand on in their cages. They all get plenty time to run, and they all are at least okay with being held. (The oops bunny is just now warming up to us) The funniest thing to watch is the lilac playing in her little playpen. She happily tosses around her two favorite toys: a large cup and a small plastic elephant. No matter what the weather is, she's always asking to play.

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Tossing in my own defence as a rabbit breeder, most breeders sell to each other and go to shows tend to be good breeders, and very rarely does one turn a profit from them.

 

If I had a large enough population I would enter into a contract with a pet store because it would give me more time to breed good rabbits, but since my breed is known to through small litters that isn't happening.

 

For Lilacs breeders are the reason the breed has not gone extinct here in the United States, so the breeders are very important. Now I do agree that there may be some rabbit mills, but the ones I've seen have mostly been scams and have been shut down by the Better Buisness Bureau.

 

The only place I may concider what most people think of a rabbit mill, is the guy I purchased my black mini rex buck from. The people kept the rabbits in a huge barn and bred, culled for pets and meat, and then showed stock and sold them if they weren't good enough. Only their champions had names and they weren't forth comming with me when I tried to get more back ground information on the buck :/.

 

Most breeders I've found to acctually be concerned that they're rabbits are going to a good home and won't sell to pet stores where the employees don't know how to care for the rabbits, or will only sell face to face and will scrutinize most owners before making a sale.

 

Example interactions:

 

A fellow breeder of mine took unpedigreed rabbits and found them homes, or if she could identify the breed she bred them to get them back into a pedigree program. She rarely loses rabbits despite being busy with her rescue animals and she works with many breeds. She took in one of my black mini rex when the doe chewed her ears when her sister died so much that the fur grew back white, ruining her for show, to help her rabbits.

 

My mom was looking for a smaller breed for my sister to take to fair and she wanted the Britiana Petits which are the smallest rabbit breed. The breeder refused to cell her one when he learned the rabbit was for a nine year old. He explained that the small breed was jumpy, and the fine bone stucture lead them to be horrible childrens rabbits. They were adult pets and show animals, kinda like how some of the toy dogs are not given high ratings around children.

 

When I was still breeding Mini Rex as cash animals because the I couldn't get a litter from the lilacs and I had to prove I was getting litters for my breeding project my mom mentioned to a breeder how I loved brokens (spotted rabbits). He watched me at the table with my animals, and asked me to look over a buck he had. After I gave him an honest evaluation he told me the buck was mine.

 

Most educated breeders aren't bad and almost none of us make money off our brood, we breed to make an animal close to the breed standard

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I don't have any, but there are a few at a local park. They're adorable wub.gif. I gave them some crackers once. They seemed to like it.

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ERMAGERD BUNNEHS!!!!! wub.gifwub.gifwub.gif (refer to username)

Squee aside now, i used to have a Himalayan sable-point. His name was Viking. Unfortunately he died of i don't even know what T_T

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I bred and showed rabbits for ten years. People get so insane about animal breeders. Are there bad ones? Absolutely. Are there bad rescues? Absolutely. There are good and bad people in everything.

 

My rabbits had plenty of space to move about in. They had EZ mats (plastic mats that relieve the pressure of wire cages while still retaining most of the hygiene that wire cages allow). They got every toilet paper role, used thread spool, and other fun objects to toss around that we had. Many were used to hopping around on a leash. They were loved and well-cared for. My kits went to screened homes or to other breeders, and the new owners were always welcome to contact me with any questions. I would also happily take them back if they could no longer care for them.

 

The vast majority of rabbit breeders make no money (we actually lose quite a bit) off of breeding rabbits. We breed rabbits for the love of rabbits, not for money.

 

Rather than blaming the responsible breeders, why not blame the irresponsible pet owners who buy rabbits as a whim (Easter gift, whatever) and dump them when they get big? Why not blame the owners who let their bunnies breed, just to have a litter, not realizing they can then have to find homes for up to 12 kits? Just because someone would not buy from a pet shop does not mean other people would not.

 

When people say "breeders take away homes from animals in shelters", I ask how they can quantify that? Many people would not have their animals at all if not for buying a purebred from a breeder. Those are homes that are NOT ones that would adopt a shelter pet, anyway. It may be that they want their first animal of that species to be one they know the history of so they don't have to deal with potential issues down the road. For example, I'm good with dogs, but my husband is not. While I fully support adopting animals from a shelter (my cats are rescues, as is my horse), I would absolutely go to a breeder for a dog because of my husband. My youngest cat has some fear issues, and my husband can handle that because he really likes cats and knows how to act around them. If we had a dog with fear issues, I can guarantee there would be problems. I'd rather buy a dog I know was well socialized and didn't have any past problems than adopt one and have to take it back to the shelter because it would not work out with our family.

 

And before someone says you can adopt a purebred at a shelter, yes, you can, but you still don't have as accurate a representation of its history as you do from a breeder. A breeder can tell you what the temperament is likely to be like when it grows up, any genetic issues, the size it will grow to, etc. (because the breeder will know the line well). A good breeder will handle the babies from an early age so they are well socialized. My rabbits were so calm that you could hold them in just about any way you liked, and they would remain calm (which is good for keeping pet owners from holding the rabbit the wrong way and causing it to freak out, struggle, and break its back).

 

If a person has the patience and experience to deal with the potential issues that may come from adopting a pet, I 100% suggest they do so. It is a very rewarding experience, and I did rabbit rescue for several years. However, some people are looking for something very specific, and that is alright, too. Responsible breeders provide these people with a loving companion, keep breeds alive, and contribute quite a bit to the knowledge base of their breed and species.

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My kind of topic right here!

 

I have owned four rabbits over the course of my life. I currently own a little baby of unknown breed. Benny (Link), is 18weeks old, someone dropped his mom off at the local SPCA. Where I live (a teeny tiny island at least an hour from the Americas or farther from anywhere else) Rabbits are nearly unheard of as pets, only meat.

 

So obviously brand new baby bunnies had the SPCA scrambling. I had the pleasure of watching Benny and his siblings 5 in total, the runt passed away within the first 3 days i'm told) grow up from two weeks old . Since bringing him home I have been running a blog and photographing him at least once a week to track his growth & life.

(It's a tumblr blog, I can link anyone if they'd like)

 

To add on to the discussion of Breeders. In my opinion as long as the rabbits are socialized and properly cared for then I think others needn't have an opinion. Though to the 'overpopulation' argument I would argue that as long as the Breeder is confident in their ability to find homes for all possible offspring than its not overpopulation.

 

Do bring another topic to the forefront, can we talk about spaying/nuetering? Are we for it or against it?

 

I am planning on getting Benny neutered soon, I know all the health benefits but I am still concerned over the anesthetics, I worry the vets won't be adequately prepared for a Rabbit (it is worth mentioning here that there are some pet rabbit owners just very few, and even less that spay/neuter)

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My kind of topic right here!

 

I have owned four rabbits over the course of my life. I currently own a little baby of unknown breed. Benny (Link), is 18weeks old, someone dropped his mom off at the local SPCA. Where I live (a teeny tiny island at least an hour from the Americas or farther from anywhere else) Rabbits are nearly unheard of as pets, only meat.

 

So obviously brand new baby bunnies had the SPCA scrambling. I had the pleasure of watching Benny and his siblings 5 in total, the runt passed away within the first 3 days i'm told) grow up from two weeks old . Since bringing him home I have been running a blog and photographing him at least once a week to track his growth & life.

(It's a tumblr blog, I can link anyone if they'd like)

 

To add on to the discussion of Breeders. In my opinion as long as the rabbits are socialized and properly cared for then I think others needn't have an opinion. Though to the 'overpopulation' argument I would argue that as long as the Breeder is confident in their ability to find homes for all possible offspring than its not overpopulation.

 

Do bring another topic to the forefront, can we talk about spaying/nuetering? Are we for it or against it?

 

I am planning on getting Benny neutered soon, I know all the health benefits but I am still concerned over the anesthetics, I worry the vets won't be adequately prepared for a Rabbit (it is worth mentioning here that there are some pet rabbit owners just very few, and even less that spay/neuter)

Nice to see this topic bumped up again. I know I stopped breeding because I didn't have time to get to shows and couldn't rehome the rabbits who weren't show/breeding rabbits.

 

Finding vets for rabbits is tricky if your not in the big city (here in the US) or in Europe. My suggestion would be to see if there is a university or college that works with veterinarians and see if they can recomend someone to you, or just use the good ol' internet for reasearch.

 

I've never fixed any of my rabbits (even the ones who refused to breed) because in my area it costs $80 at the bare minimum. Its cheaper and more efficient to be a breeder, espeically if its a breed that is in danger of dieing out.

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Nice to see this topic bumped up again. I know I stopped breeding because I didn't have time to get to shows and couldn't rehome the rabbits who weren't show/breeding rabbits.

 

Finding vets for rabbits is tricky if your not in the big city (here in the US) or in Europe. My suggestion would be to see if there is a university or college that works with veterinarians and see if they can recomend someone to you, or just use the good ol' internet for reasearch.

 

I've never fixed any of my rabbits (even the ones who refused to breed) because in my area it costs $80 at the bare minimum. Its cheaper and more efficient to be a breeder, espeically if its a breed that is in danger of dieing out.

Thanks for the advice.

 

I'm just a worrier, I will probably be booking an appointment in the next week or so. We only have two vets offices on island and after a little digging I found the one the SPCA takes all the animals to so I will probably head over there.

 

I am amazed as I sit and watch him go mad on my bed, I picked him because he was the calmest and cuddliest but he also has this insane amount of energy he was keeping a secret apparently.

 

What is the opinion on single rabbits, I know they thrive best as a bonded pair but my parents would never go for it. Two more years after this one and then I will have my own apartment so I will try and get him a friend then but for now its just us. Also, does anyone know of any negatives in stuffed toys? I think Benny needs a little stuffed toy or something but he has a fairly large chewing problem so I am cautious about getting him one and we have such a small section of rabbit-geared toys I am at a loss.

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Thanks for the advice.

 

I'm just a worrier, I will probably be booking an appointment in the next week or so. We only have two vets offices on island and after a little digging I found the one the SPCA takes all the animals to so I will probably head over there.

 

I am amazed as I sit and watch him go mad on my bed, I picked him because he was the calmest and cuddliest but he also has this insane amount of energy he was keeping a secret apparently.

 

What is the opinion on single rabbits, I know they thrive best as a bonded pair but my parents would never go for it. Two more years after this one and then I will have my own apartment so I will try and get him a friend then but for now its just us. Also, does anyone know of any negatives in stuffed toys? I think Benny needs a little stuffed toy or something but he has a fairly large chewing problem so I am cautious about getting him one and we have such a small section of rabbit-geared toys I am at a loss.

Depends on the rabbit, I had an absolutly mean rabbit who hated being next to other rabbits (took a buck who just didn't care to mellow her out, somewhat), and I've met rabbits who like other animals (mostly rabbit x dog bonding) and some rabbits who need to be near other rabbits.

 

I haven't had to worry too much since I keep the rabbits in cages where they can see or smell each other, but for a rabbit who is loose when you are at home I'd recomend some of these things:

 

1. Talk to the vet about stuffed animals. Rabbits love to chew, and it keeps their teeth healthy, but stuffing is not good for a rabbit.

2. Have wooden toys he can chew

3. Soupcans make good toys (used a can opener to remove the top and bottom then file away the sharp edges) as well as cat toys with bells.

4. Spend time with your rabbit. I don't recomend rabbits to very busy people unless I know the rabbit would thrive in a quiet environment like that (My GC Snoopy was one of those rabbits) or if they are getting a pair.

5. If you have other animals introduce your rabbit. Do not let them hang out together though if you are asleep or not around. Even if your dog or cat does get along with them there can still be unintended consequences. (An example: a woman rescued a rabbit. Her dog bonded with the rabbit and kept her cat away. The rabbit liked being tossed onto the sofa by the dog. One night they were playing and the rabbit missed the sofa. This game repeated with the second rabbit the woman got, but only under her supervison and then rarely because the other rabbit didn't like it.)

6. Just an in general thing talk about the food you give to your rabbit with your vet and if it is a complete feed or not. Complete pellets have more fiber and don't typically need daily supplements, non-complete pellets require hay and possible fruit and veggie supplements to maintain your rabbits health.

 

Edit: You probably don't need number 6 but it's something I always always recomend, I lost two rabbits because the people I was getting my information from only raised theirs on show feed. Most pet feeds aren't complete and expect you to be providing treats for the rabbits, or at least hay.

 

Another note: Timothy hay not orchard grass or alfalfa >.< orchard grass is good if its cold outside but is too rich for most rabbits to eat all the time. Alfalfa is high in fat and protein and should only be given to lactating mothers and rabbits before months years of age (though you could add some until six months if you need the rabbit to fill out.)

Edited by brairtrainer

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OMG. Tales form Watership Down!!!! (I didn't read all the previous osts, so forgive me if someone else already mentioned it)

I was at a restaurant once, and there was an adorable little family of bunnies eating grass right outside the window.

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I had three rabbits: Starburst, Marshmallow, and Fatso. They were albino looking, but had black eyes. Sadly, Starburst and Marshmallow died of unknown causes sad.gif Fatso survived, but we had to give him away because we got a dog.

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I had three rabbits: Starburst, Marshmallow, and Fatso. They were albino looking, but had black eyes. Sadly, Starburst and Marshmallow died of unknown causes sad.gif Fatso survived, but we had to give him away because we got a dog.

Did your rabbits have any spot markings around their eyes? They might have been misbred Dwarf Hotots or Blanc De Hotots.

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Did your rabbits have any spot markings around their eyes? They might have been misbred Dwarf Hotots or Blanc De Hotots.

Actually, usually eye markings like that are from the double spotting (broken colour x broken colour) which results in a very lightly marked rabbit called a Charlie.

 

Usually dark eyed white rabbits are the result of a specific genetic combination. Thera a colour called chinchilla that looks like a wild chinchilla (the animal species). If you cross that with orange, you can get a colour called frosty or ermine.

 

Here is what it looks like, though they can be darker or even more white.

http://www.gbfarm.org/rabbit/images/frosty1.jpg

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Actually, usually eye markings like that are from the double spotting (broken colour x broken colour) which results in a very lightly marked rabbit called a Charlie.

 

Usually dark eyed white rabbits are the result of a specific genetic combination. Thera a colour called chinchilla that looks like a wild chinchilla (the animal species). If you cross that with orange, you can get a colour called frosty or ermine.

 

Here is what it looks like, though they can be darker or even more white.

http://www.gbfarm.org/rabbit/images/frosty1.jpg

Hotots were originally bred from charlie spotted rabbits. I've been finding them to suddenly gain a spike in popularity where I live. And not all broken x broken rabbit breedings will result in charlies, just like not all broken x selfs will breed rabbits with too much color.

 

Asking about the spots around the eye was more of a curiosity and while I know other rabbit breeds can have it only the Hotots have those markings consistantly.

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I've never had a rabbit, but with the amount there are at the local park... I don't think I'll ever want one.

 

I've fed one cheese crackers before, when I was really little.

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I want a fat bunny I can cuddle. Q 3 Q

It's actually one of my life goals to own and care for a rabbit. I don't care about allergies, I just want a fluffy ball to cuddle. D:

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I want a fat bunny I can cuddle. Q 3 Q

It's actually one of my life goals to own and care for a rabbit. I don't care about allergies, I just want a fluffy ball to cuddle. D:

If your looking for a breed to cuddle I'd recomend a larger breed as they tend to (not always) be more laid back. Avoid large full arch types though as they have more energy.

 

If you want something fluffy and would spend every day grooming it angoras might be the way you want to go.

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Double posting to bring this back to the front, I have a question for all the rabbit owners out there.

 

My sister has recently got back into breeding rabbits and bought a pre-junior trio of rhinelanders. Here's the problem we are having, two of the rabbits in the trio (a doe by the name of Clover, and the buck with the name Hazel-Rah) have begun to settle in quite nicely. Both run the table and are slowly being trained to allow themselves to be flipped.

 

Lily, our other doe, however is not. I'm pretty sure she's scared and not a mean rabbit, but she has been baring her teeth, stamping, and growling since she arrived. She's a young doe so I know she can't be wanting kits, and she seems afraid when ever we put our hands in the cage. Has anyone had to deal with a rabbit like this before? Right now we're trying to treat her with carrots when she comes up to us but she refuses to eat them and I don't want to try bananas because rhinelander judges are picky about weight of the rabbit.

 

Edit: and now we just lost clover to bloat sad.gif we are unsure what caused it but we are having her necropsied and the breeder is more than willing to replace her. But that leaves us with the buck and the (now I'm thinking territorial) doe.

Edited by brairtrainer

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