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Snowytoshi

Vegetarianism/ Veganism

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I'm neither, though the list of animal products I refuse to touch is nine-billion times longer than the list of stuff I do eat. Instead of being a veggie or vegan, I instead choose to purchase organic products that have Nine's Seal of Approval and support the businesses who have an animal's welfare in mind. Finding a few extra quarters for organic eggs isn't all that difficult, it's researching and confirming a brand's honesty that's the hard part. There are a lot of businesses out there looking to prey upon consumers' empathy and compassion (and money)...

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There is NO basis for this idea. It is PERFECTLY possible to raise a child vegetarian - and even vegan as long as you give them B12 and (non-animal !) vitamin supplements.

I am aware of that. However, there are many parents who do it incorrectly, or who have children who are unable to be sustained on a vegetarian or vegan diet, and despite that, refuse to feed their children meat for moral reasons, or change the way they feed to a better vegetarian diet.

Thanks. wub.gif That wasn't at all the impression your original post left me with.

 

Chalk - if things died all by themselves, from a veggie point of view, I can hack that. Just as my veggie SO says he would have no real issue with eating roadkill. There is no exploitation in either one.

 

 

 

 

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I am aware of that. However, there are many parents who do it incorrectly, or who have children who are unable to be sustained on a vegetarian or vegan diet, and despite that, refuse to feed their children meat for moral reasons, or change the way they feed to a better vegetarian diet.

Thanks. wub.gif That wasn't at all the impression your original post left me with.

 

Chalk - if things died all by themselves, from a veggie point of view, I can hack that. Just as my veggie SO says he would have no real issue with eating roadkill. There is no exploitation in either one.

My apologies for somehow appearing differently. I had assumed people understood there were rules to removing children from homes.

 

Also, out of curiosity, fuzz, I wonder what your vegetarian friends would think of someone who was unable to be vegetarian, due to cultural laws and beliefs -- in a culture where there is no farmed meat allowed either.

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Also, out of curiosity, fuzz, I wonder what your vegetarian friends would think of someone who was unable to be vegetarian, due to cultural laws and beliefs -- in a culture where there is no farmed meat allowed either.

My vegetarian friends don't judge at all, actually - so they wouldn't think anything OF anyone. My SO will even cook meat for me - he just won't eat it. No-one I know would suggest people should starve if nothing else is available. I would imagine even the strictest of rabbis would forgive a Jew for eating pork in that kind of situation, for instance smile.gif At least I HOPE they would.

 

I wasn't that concerned with the ethics of it all, just with the suggestion that it was impossible to bring up a child without feeding it anything of animal origin. Because so many people who want to are told - even by some medical people - that it can't be done - and that is unfair.

 

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@ shinytomato:

It's really easy to take a child away from a home where the parents just refuse to feed their child in a way healthy for them because they don't want to. It is very hard to take a child away from otherwise loving parents because of a moral stance.

 

As for the mother who said she'd rather have her child starve than live on animals.. as it is perfectly prossible to feed a kid strictly vegan , why not tell her what vegan products to use instead of implying she'd have to use animal products ?

 

It is not possible to feed EVERY child strictly vegan. Her child in particular, had an intolerance that made it impossible for her to feed the child a vegan diet and have the child thrive. She had a severe case of intolerance to Fermentable Oligosaccharides Disaccharides Monosaccharides and Polyols, which made the child physically sick on many of the necessary vegetables and plant products needed to get those nutrients.

 

Its not a problem of vegan diet, its simply a problem of missing information on the part of some vegans
.

 

 

It depends on the vegan and the child in question, which is why education can sometimes help.

 

But You didn't say that the child in question did suffer from a specific allergy, that made a vegan diet difficult to impossible. You only said it was a vegan mother, creating the impression there were no medical reasons for the child not to eat vegan.

If there are really valid medical reasons.. not just one doctor who doesnt like vegans, ok.. what else to do but feed the kid animal stuff. I can accept that,

But sorry, the way You phrased it, seemed to me, that there were NO medical reasons.

 

Furthermore, the definiton of healthy is quite different for different people.

Say the dairy and factory farming lobby has quite a different definition of healthy than a strict vegan ;-)

 

 

I can't remember the country in question, but I am pretty sure I once read about a family who was threatened with heaving their kid taken away because they were vegan .. not that the child suffered from malnutrition. I have to search for that one..

 

As to cultural and moral beliefs, no... i don' t think it a reason for eating meat or dairy that I see as valid. For me , that would fall in the same category as , say, Christians who condemn homosexuals because of the bible or things like that (sorry, no offence meant, I couldnt think of any other example).

Medical reasons are quite different case in my opinion, because a sick person has no choice, like a follower of a certain belief has.

But honestly - I would not only doublecheck, but triplecheck or quadruplecheck if I was told I had to eat meat/milk or I would die or at least be extremely ill. ;-)

 

@stripey: I try to avoid it.

It would be nice if producers worldwide had to mention animal ingredients on all products, like gelatine used in producing multivitamindrinks or Cystein made from horns and feathers in flour.

Edited by Severus_S

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I have seen a few different comments on cooking vegan/vegetarian at home.

Not to brag..but i live in chicago and we have some GOOD vegan/vegetarian food here! and i mean sit in food. Like Pick Me Up cafe and Native Foods and Chicago Diner

yum!

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Vegan cake for everybody in this thread *g*. Carrot-ginger-coconut cake.

 

user posted image

 

(My B-day cake)

Happy belated birthday!! biggrin.gif That looks delicious.

 

I had (regular) carrot cake for mine too, but I didn't take a photo.

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I can't remember the country in question, but I am pretty sure I once read about a family who was threatened with heaving their kid taken away because they were vegan .. not that the child suffered from malnutrition. I have to search for that one..

This may have been it.

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=O Cakes!

 

Has anyone tried zucchini cake before? I keep hearing about it as an alternative to eggs and/or milk (I've seen recipes omitting one or the other or sometimes both) in cakes, so it seems like a good option for vegans and veggies. Is it any good?

 

Just out of curiosity, because I love food and I figure someone in here would know. >>

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Yes - it is nicer than it sounds. Do you want a recipe ? (with walnuts, like my banana bread...)

 

I prefer carrot cake, myself.

 

ETA I never saw one without EGGS though. Then again, I do go to a cafe with a vegan friend sometimes and now that you mention it, she always has zucchini chocolate cake... I must have a word.

Edited by fuzzbucket

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It got no nuts. Nuts is better and very vegan xd.png

 

ETA and MINE you don't have to peel the zucchini.

Edited by fuzzbucket

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Hehehe. I'm sure you can always add nuts or opt not to peel the zucchini. Food processor? XD

 

I'm fond of carrot cake myself. I'm glad there's a lot of creative options for vegans and veggies when it comes to recipes, no one should be denied cake. I've seen someone on food Network (on the old Iron Chef, the challenger was a Buddhist monk so he picked a vegetable for the theme) transform yams into something very similar to a meat item, in terms of both taste and texture. :3

Edited by Lythiaren

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@stripey: I try to avoid it.

It would be nice if producers worldwide had to mention animal ingredients on all products, like gelatine used in producing multivitamindrinks or Cystein made from horns and feathers in flour.

May I ask why you try to avoid it?

I also agree with the listing of the various animal based ingredients in things (like the red dye from bugs), even though I'm not a vegetarian. It would be nice to know.

 

From Fuzzbucket:

Chalk - if things died all by themselves, from a veggie point of view, I can hack that. Just as my veggie SO says he would have no real issue with eating roadkill. There is no exploitation in either one.

Ah, so if they aren't killed specifically for consumption (accidentally), or died naturally, your SO would be OK with eating it. Interesting view. Reminds me of a person I met who didn't eat meat, but didn't mind others eating it because it enabled him to buy cheaper leather.

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I wasn't that concerned with the ethics of it all, just with the suggestion that it was impossible to bring up a child without feeding it anything of animal origin. Because so many people who want to are told - even by some medical people - that it can't be done - and that is unfair.

 

For some children it isn't. For many it is. I only consider it an issue when the needs are there, and they are ignored.

 

But You didn't say that the child in question did suffer from a specific allergy, that made a vegan diet difficult to impossible. You only said it was a vegan mother, creating the impression there were no medical reasons for the child not to eat vegan.

 

I've been talking about multiple circumstances. Several of which include healthy children who could be sustained on the right diet, if the parents would try or accept supplements. I am talking solely about the system here.

 

As to cultural and moral beliefs, no... i don' t think it a reason for eating meat or dairy that I see as valid.

 

Just wondering, because in my culture, while farmed meat is seen as poison, vegetarianism is seen as wholly unnatural, harmful, exploitative and unclean for those in the culture. Not any criticism to you at all, or anyone else on this thread, just commenting on how worldviews can differ.

 

Medical reasons are quite different case in my opinion, because a sick person has no choice, like a follower of a certain belief has.

 

How one defines choice is always very interesting, I think, but as long as it remains a choice, I'm all good.

 

 

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I'm not having anything against vegetarianism or veganism, but I'm just going to say that sometimes meat helps you to grow. I've had a few vegetarian/vegan people in my school-time that have fainted.

 

Not saying that all vegetarians and vegans will faint at some point.

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I'm not having anything against vegetarianism or veganism, but I'm just going to say that sometimes meat helps you to grow. I've had a few vegetarian/vegan people in my school-time that have fainted.

 

Not saying that all vegetarians and vegans will faint at some point.

No vegetarian or vegan I know has fainted. I, on the other hand, a meat eater, have done so twice that I remember !

 

Just saying, too wink.gif

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Again, it depends a whole lot on how aware the vegetarian/vegan is of the things s/he is supposed to eat to gain all of the micro and macro elements one needs. If they live under the misconception that sustaining oneself on just cabbage and potatoes will be sufficient, they might indeed end up in a state where they would faint from lack of something essential, e.g. iron-deficiency. If they eat everything they need, however, it won't happen even if they never touch animal products. (Well, or at the very least they won't end up faining because of their diet.)

 

 

(A bit OT, but I've never fainted either - I'm an omnivore as previously stated, though.)

Edited by Shienvien

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Again, it depends a whole lot on how aware the vegetarian/vegan is of the things s/he is supposed to eat to gain all of the micro and macro elements one needs. If they live under the misconception that  sustaining oneself on just cabbage and potatoes will be sufficient, they might indeed end up in a state where they would faint from lack of something essential, e.g. iron-deficiency. If they eat everything they need, however, it won't happen even if they never touch animal products. (Well, or at the very least they won't end up faining because of their diet.)

 

 

(A bit OT, but I've never fainted either - I'm an omnivore as previously stated, though.)

This also applies if you refuse to eat any fruit or veg - perhaps not the fainting, but certainly malnutrition will follow - and possibly bowel cancer which can be "caused" - no one knows the CAUSE, but there is certainly a statistical link ! - by lack of fibre.

 

ANY diet needs variety. Vegans who rely on one type of bean are at risk; those who use a variety are not, for instance. You need several varieties to cover all the amino acids... To name but one thing. But most vegans I know are OBSESSIVE about what to eat to get what they need. It can get very boring - but their health is not at risk !

 

To whoever asked me further back the thread somewhere - my SO is veggie on ethical grounds. So yes, as long as NOTHING was exploited to feed him, he is OK with roadkill in principle, but has never chosen to eat any in practice. Those who won't eat meat for other reasons would not.

 

On the other hand, on the same ethical grounds, he is not OK with animal products either - but has had to accept wearing leather shoes, as his feet have major problems and while he used to use veggie Doc Martins, now even they hurt like hell. Mostly he wears fabric trainers, but for long walks etc he has no option but leather. It upsets him, ethically, greatly.

Edited by fuzzbucket

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True - I never insisted it doesn't go both ways. No matter what you decide to eat like, in the end you simply have to get everything your body needs to stay healthy. smile.gif

 

 

Hmm... I've no time to skim through the entire thread at the moment, but was your SO the kind of vegetarian who ate eggs?

(I myself have a few 'pet chicken', with their own quite sizable hut and adjacent garden within my even larger garden (though they have to be locked in the hut for the month or two-three during which there's snow outside). Since I don't have a rooster, no chicks could ever hatch, but I still get a handful of eggs a day.)

Edited by Shienvien

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Hmm... I've no time to skim through the entire thread at the moment, but was your SO the kind of vegetarian who ate eggs?

(I myself have a few 'pet chicken', with their own quite sizable hut and adjacent garden within my even larger garden (though they have to be locked in the hut for the month or two-three during which there's snow outside). Since I don't have a rooster, no chicks could ever hatch, but I still get a handful of eggs a day.)

Yes he is - but only free range. (we know many of the chickens involved personally !)

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May I ask why you try to avoid it?

I also agree with the listing of the various animal based ingredients in things (like the red dye from bugs), even though I'm not a vegetarian.  It would be nice to know.

 

@ stripey: If its animal I try to avoid it *g* Unfortunately one cannot always know for sure if its animal or not *sigh*

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Personally I'm an omnivore and I don't understand why anyone should have a problem with vegetarian or vegan diets. They may actually be BETTER for overall health than the meat-eaters. You can definitely get more necessary vitamins and minerals in veggies than meat, especially processed and factory farmed meat. Processing food in general strips away things in the natural form of the food that would be healthy for you. If I don't go veggie, I'd totally go organic wherever I can.

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Well, I'm a omnivore, and I'd *like* to become a vegetarian, but I am in love with filet mignon. I hate the thought of the fact that I'm eating what once was alive, but I just can't bring myself to go vegetarian. But I totally support vegetarians.

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