Vegetarianism/ Veganism

[Ether-Equinox]

6 minutes ago, RealWilliamShakespeare said:

 

I’m also not sure what you’re asking about culinary terms regarding legumes? If by “culinary terms” you mean things like “julienne” and “sauté” they can applicable to legume dishes? Is that what you mean?

Yeah, like "Julienne", "Bouquet ere", "Primeurs" and stuff liek that.

 

I didn't have time to take down notes XP

[Fuzzbucket]

Julienne applies only to vegetables anyway - whether served with legumes or meat. So does "primeurs" - that's the very earliest fruit or veg in season. Or the earliest wines... I don't think you ever use it to refer to the first born lamb or anything   You can sauté anything.  The terms generally just refer to what you do with whatever food you are doing it to.

Edited November 28, 2018 by Fuzzbucket

[RealWilliamShakespeare]

^^ Exactly! You can definitely purée legumes too, but I’m not a chef at all so that’s the extent of what I can say

[RandomBreeder]

I seem to have stumbled upon a place teeming with vegans 😆

Completely irrelevant, but there's this amazing manga called The Promised Neverland that inadvertently shows what it's like to put humans in place of cattle and fowl in meat production industries and just grazes it. From there on, I went to dig more into the industry and even those clickbait videos with titled like "this will change your perspective of chicken forever".

 

Yes, it's terrible.

 

No, I still don't plan on abstaining from non-veg.

Thought I must add that my consumption has dropped significantly. Though I must also add that it's mostly due to financial strains 😅

 

Edit: Um... I don't mean to offend, in case it comes off that way ><

Edited November 28, 2018 by RandomBreeder

[Fuzzbucket]

25 minutes ago, RealWilliamShakespeare said:

^^ Exactly! You can definitely purée legumes too, but I’m not a chef at all so that’s the extent of what I can say

 

Me neither but I can cook and follow a recipe  

 

24 minutes ago, RandomBreeder said:

I seem to have stumbled upon a place teeming with vegans 😆

Completely irrelevant, but there's this amazing manga called The Promised Neverland that inadvertently shows what it's like to put humans in place of cattle and fowl in meat production industries and just grazes it. From there on, I went to dig more into the industry and even those clickbait videos with titled like "this will change your perspective of chicken forever".

 

Yes, it's terrible.

 

No, I still don't plan on abstaining from non-veg.

Thought I must add that my consumption has dropped significantly. Though I must also add that it's mostly due to financial strains 😅

 

Edit: Um... I don't mean to offend, in case it comes off that way ><

 

No - this place isn't teeming with vegans - I am myself an omnivore - but you would expect a thread about vegetarianism and veganism to attract people who follow those patterns. I am not 100% convinced that everyone switching to veganism would save the planet - there's more to it all than farting beef cattle -  but I do know that a significant reduction in meat consumption IS healthier than having meat and 2 veg every day. So thank your financial strain for improving your health

Edited November 28, 2018 by Fuzzbucket

[Starscream]

I am all for a vegan or vegetarian day - but cutting out all animal products (including milk, honey, eggs) is kinda extreme. I do make a lovely vegan chili which is very meat-like hwen I am done. I use all manner of beans, chickpeas and lentils.

[Fuzzbucket]

Extreme for you, sure (and I don't want to do it either) - but the vegan in our family feels just the same about people who eat animals - that THEY are being extreme. He has a point.

[RealWilliamShakespeare]

Yeah, it didn’t feel extreme to me in the slightest! I still ate fish, dairy and milk and I went vegan overnight - it really wasn’t as hard as I expected! It’s a lot cheaper too!

[Starscream]

by extreme its that we are omnivores. We don't have to eat exclusively meat. I find people who are strict carnivores (I think its not that common) about as odd. There needs to be a balance. My stepsisters girlfriend was ordered off a vegan diet because it was causing her health issues. I prefer to find a healthy balance between food items. When I was broke, and had no money for meat, I could work with a vegetarian/vegan diet. But in Canada, its not practical/logical or cheap to have vegetative matter in the winter months - maybe its the area I live in, but food, meat or veg is so expensive. What bothers me about a number of the vegan (some not all, but there are some hanging out a restaurant in toronto lately) which harass people who eat meat -  which is not fair - using such names as blood mouths and whatnot. Vitamin B12 cannot be obtained from vegetation, and must be taken from animal products or shots (derived from such). I don't actually understand the vegan's need to exclude eggs (factory farms I get, but free ranged hens should be okay:, Honey because the bees are useful in the pollination of hundreds of plants - the bees are well cared for. I can understand milk to a degree - because it is actually unnatural for us to be drinking milk after our infancy, and we're about the only animal that takes the milk from others (but cheese... gods, I love my cheese and I went lactose intolerant).

 

I love my plant based foods, and I can I go rather extreme on carrots. I find that if I go without certain meats for a period of time, I find myself lacking in elements such as iron - I know I can get iron from a lot of dark leafy greens. As I am lactose intolerant, calcium is currently a big problem ( have reduced milk and dairy a great deal).

 

And when it comes to the end of the day, after a 12 hour shift working in a restaurant, the last thing I want to do is mess around with cooking. (I seem to graze on vegetable off cuts from my work) So in general, my diet sucks.

 

Still if you g ot a great vegan dish, PM me. I'll try when I get some time.

[Fuzzbucket]

7 hours ago, Starscream said:

by extreme its that we are omnivores. We don't have to eat exclusively meat. I find people who are strict carnivores (I think its not that common) about as odd. There needs to be a balance. My stepsisters girlfriend was ordered off a vegan diet because it was causing her health issues. I prefer to find a healthy balance between food items. When I was broke, and had no money for meat, I could work with a vegetarian/vegan diet. But in Canada, its not practical/logical or cheap to have vegetative matter in the winter months - maybe its the area I live in, but food, meat or veg is so expensive. What bothers me about a number of the vegan (some not all, but there are some hanging out a restaurant in toronto lately) which harass people who eat meat -  which is not fair - using such names as blood mouths and whatnot. Vitamin B12 cannot be obtained from vegetation, and must be taken from animal products or shots (derived from such). I don't actually understand the vegan's need to exclude eggs (factory farms I get, but free ranged hens should be okay:, Honey because the bees are useful in the pollination of hundreds of plants - the bees are well cared for. I can understand milk to a degree - because it is actually unnatural for us to be drinking milk after our infancy, and we're about the only animal that takes the milk from others (but cheese... gods, I love my cheese and I went lactose intolerant).

 

I love my plant based foods, and I can I go rather extreme on carrots. I find that if I go without certain meats for a period of time, I find myself lacking in elements such as iron - I know I can get iron from a lot of dark leafy greens. As I am lactose intolerant, calcium is currently a big problem ( have reduced milk and dairy a great deal).

 

And when it comes to the end of the day, after a 12 hour shift working in a restaurant, the last thing I want to do is mess around with cooking. (I seem to graze on vegetable off cuts from my work) So in general, my diet sucks.

 

Still if you got a great vegan dish, PM me. I'll try when I get some time.

 

I'm sorry, Star, but it certainly IS easy in Canada -and that includes the area you live in, which is close enough to mine, as well as far better for stores etc (I live out in the sticks !) that I can be certain of this. If you want to be an omnivore, be one; I am - but don't use unavailability as a reason not to. Yes you need to take B12 in some form - but most vegan - and indeed vegetarian - foods are fortified with the stuff. And plant milks are even easily available in nofrills, never mind higher class grocery stores. Natura is the best one; avoid Silk at all costs. Soya milk has calcium added to almost all brands. There are also some excellent soya and even potato based cheeses - also in nofrills  - and you can also buy lactose free cheeses.

 

Our resident vegan objects to exploiting animals - in which he includes hens. I'm on the fence about honey, and I never ask him about this stuff, in case some idiot tells him carrots scream when you pull them up. I do know that the harvesting of the stuff can harm bee health.

 

Except for having to watch out for B12, a vegan diet is PERFECTLY healthy; meat and fish are NOT necessary for human health. Please let's not blur facts here. I absolutely know my stiff on this one, and have also living healthy relatives to prove it. In fact I am probably the least healthy of the lot of us... Eat whatever way your conscience chooses - I am a meatlover myself, though I do worry about it some - I am not a proselytising veggie nut. But I will defend to the death the right of anyone to say eating meat is wrong. And also those who are being told by meat lovers that their diet is dangerous,. It isn't.

 

An aside to Star. If you eat TOO may carrots you may get a startling orange tan. Happened to a child patient of the doctor I used to work for. His mother thought he had jaundice...

 

Vegan dishes - surely you have had pasta arrabiata in your time ? To name but one. People always forget that they often eat vegan by accident.

Edited November 29, 2018 by Fuzzbucket

[GhostMouse]

3 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

avoid Silk at all costs

I don't usually buy Silk products but I'm curious why?

 

11 hours ago, Starscream said:

Still if you g ot a great vegan dish, PM me. I'll try when I get some time.

Don't just PM, post them here!  Here's one for you:

http://kblog.lunchboxbunch.com/2018/05/two-bean-pasta-salad.html

My (omni) husband and I ate this pasta salad so many times over the summer. It's a great meal prep dish because it gets better after it sits in the fridge. We'd make a big batch and portion it out for lunches for the week. It is a cold salad though, so maybe better suited for the warmer months.

[Fuzzbucket]

4 hours ago, GhostMouse said:

I don't usually buy Silk products but I'm curious why?

 

 

It tastes revolting, my soy milk-drinking partner tells me, and also it clots horribly when you use it in hot drinks. It makes them look as if you poured bad milk in there. YUK. I wrote and told them what I thought of it and they sent me my money back - I'll give them credit for that !

[GhostMouse]

1 hour ago, Fuzzbucket said:

 

It tastes revolting, my soy milk-drinking partner tells me, and also it clots horribly when you use it in hot drinks. It makes them look as if you poured bad milk in there. YUK. I wrote and told them what I thought of it and they sent me my money back - I'll give them credit for that !

 

Oh good! I was worried you were going to tell me they were an evil company, like Nestle. That's still gross though.

 

I was using a vegan creamer for a while because vegan milks are too thin to work in coffee (my usual coffee preference was to just put in regular milk instead of creamer, before I started buying non-dairy milks). I had finally found one that was unflavored and unsweetened. Then we got a French Press and I started taking my coffee black instead. I can't remember if Silk was the brand of the creamer though. On the rare occasion that I do buy (any kind of) milk, I usually go for almond or cashew instead of soy, anyway.

[RealWilliamShakespeare]

@GhostMouse

Have you ever tried oat milk? My goodness - imo, it’s beautiful. Almond is the only other milk that comes close to it for me, but oat is so sweet and creamy and it makes gorgeous hot chocolates! And cereal. So sweet and delicious.

[Starscream]

12 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

An aside to Star. If you eat TOO may carrots you may get a startling orange tan. Happened to a child patient of the doctor I used to work for. His mother thought he had jaundice...

 

Vegan dishes - surely you have had pasta arrabiata in your time ? To name but one. People always forget that they often eat vegan by accident.

do not know if I had that pasta. I got sent a gorgeous sounding linquini in my pm this morning.

 

Also, orange tan - been there - twice. I have been trying to not eat so many, but they are so so so gorgeous. My palms started to go orange, before my husband suggested cutting back. I eat carrots by the bagload while coding my website - its a stress thing. I think its akin to smokers chain smoking, I chain carrot nom.

[relaks]

20 hours ago, Starscream said:

Vitamin B12 cannot be obtained from vegetation, and must be taken from animal products or shots (derived from such)

Just going to quote this because I think there's a little misunderstanding regarding vitamin B12 in general. It is indeed true that we, as human, can only find B12 in animal products. But the production itself? Not animals. Bacteria. The only living organism capable of synthesizing vit B12 are bacteria.  When vegan products are fortified with B12, it's from bacterial cultures, not from animal products. Just wanted to clarify this.  ^^

[Fuzzbucket]

3 hours ago, RealWilliamShakespeare said:

@GhostMouse

Have you ever tried oat milk? My goodness - imo, it’s beautiful. Almond is the only other milk that comes close to it for me, but oat is so sweet and creamy and it makes gorgeous hot chocolates! And cereal. So sweet and delicious.

 

Yes - but do remember to shake it.  My daughter likes rice milk., too.

[GhostMouse]

@RealWilliamShakespeare I have not but I will have to try it since hot chocolate season is nearly upon us!

@Fuzzbucket Noted! I remember not liking rice milk but it has been years since I last tried it. I don't use a lot of any sort of milk but I'll give it another chance next time I need some.

On the orange "tan"... My mom has a funny story of rushing me to the doctor as a baby because I had turned orange. Turns out all of the baby foods she'd fed me were things like carrots and butternut squash. Can you tell I was her first kid? 

[Infinis]

i don't drink a lot of anything other than water, but i did try almond milk once, and i was sorely disappointed in the sad watery texture and weird flavor. if i want almonds, i'll just stick to eating the almonds themselves.

 

i don't think i'll ever go vegetarian or vegan, but i feel like as time has passed i've reduced my meat consumption, probably as a result of just preferring smaller portions of meat (especially of "heavy" meats like beef). i also tend to like meats like beef and pork better in stews with vegetables than on their own, and we don't make stews that often. it's startling how many meatless options i do like, especially as i make an effort to include more actual veg in my diet.

[Harebelle]

On 11/28/2018 at 4:14 PM, RandomBreeder said:

 

Completely irrelevant, but there's this amazing manga called The Promised Neverland that inadvertently shows what it's like to put humans in place of cattle and fowl in meat production industries and just grazes it. From there on, I went to dig more into the industry and even those clickbait videos with titled like "this will change your perspective of chicken forever".

 

Oh I think I've seen the first few pages of that! It's super creepy. I think the point is to counter the arguments that "if animals have a nice (short) life, it's okay to kill them", because the children in the manga have a nice home, but the horror is still self evident.
Though most restaurant/ cheap meat in developed nations comes from factory farming, so the nice pasture image people have isn't really relevant anyway...  

[RandomBreeder]

22 hours ago, Harebelle said:

Though most restaurant/ cheap meat in developed nations comes from factory farming, so the nice pasture image people have isn't really relevant anyway...  

The factory farming stuff comes into play later in the story, but you should read it anyway. The entirety of the first arc is simply glorious and the second had me hooked too, though right now things are proceeding a little slow u.u

[RealWilliamShakespeare]

Found a very very interesting study which I thought worth sharing.

 

It's not well-known how much the meat industry actually contributes to environmental destruction and climate change, but a plant-based meat substitute company "Beyond Meat" conducted a study on it.

 

"The Beyond Burger uses 99% less water, 93% less land, generates 90% fewer Greenhouse Gas Emissions (GHGE), and requires 46% less energy than a beef burger."

 

"If Americans switched just one of these beef burgers to a plant-based Beyond Burger for a year...

It would be like taking 12 MILLION cars off the road and saving enough energy to power 2.3 MILLION homes."

 

That's a lot! More plant-based meals and cutting down meat consumption really does seem beneficial to our planet at this point.

 

Here's the link to their report: https://www.beyondmeat.com/whats-new/view/a-burger-with-benefits

[Nagapie]

24 minutes ago, RealWilliamShakespeare said:

Found a very very interesting study which I thought worth sharing.

 

It's not well-known how much the meat industry actually contributes to environmental destruction and climate change, but a plant-based meat substitute company "Beyond Meat" conducted a study on it.

 

"The Beyond Burger uses 99% less water, 93% less land, generates 90% fewer Greenhouse Gas Emissions (GHGE), and requires 46% less energy than a beef burger."

 

"If Americans switched just one of these beef burgers to a plant-based Beyond Burger for a year...

It would be like taking 12 MILLION cars off the road and saving enough energy to power 2.3 MILLION homes."

 

That's a lot! More plant-based meals and cutting down meat consumption really does seem beneficial to our planet at this point.

 

Here's the link to their report: https://www.beyondmeat.com/whats-new/view/a-burger-with-benefits

 

That's interesting and I definitely agree that the meat industry's effects on the environment must be very big, but would simultaneously take that particular study with a grain of salt. Seeing as it was conducted by a plant-based meat substitute company like you said, there's a fair chance that they may have inflated the numbers to make their own product look better. I'm all for the idea of having people eat less meat, but wouldn't chisel those specific numbers into stone just yet. Perhaps I'm just a little cynical towards companies.

[maratrekkan]

I really need to read all previous posts, but I am Veg friendly Omni... I am exploring various non meat protein substitutes or options and non dairy. I would probably never be 100 Vegan. Here is what I am doing and why... I raise my own chickens who are really just my spoiled pets that happen to produce supper yummy eggs, so naturally I am going to eat those fresh eggs. My birds are healthy not having issues laying or in danger from laying. I am exploring non dairy options as I seem to have a negative reaction to cows milk. My husband has been going through chemo and some dairy he can no longer digest mainly cheeses made from cows milk, but also his body has problems with certain grains and veggies too... so the just go Veg something is not going to work for him. We do believe some grain issues are pesticide related as he was out of country and could eat certain grains in those countries that have banned certain pesticides and back here sick again on same grains, so I think there is something wrong in our food production in USA. He does a lot of the shopping while I work and he is only on board so much for no meat protein adventures, but if he discovers he likes a weird thing I brought home he will buy more of it... so that’s good. But really it is about finding foods he won’t be throwing up latter... seriously cancer sucks, the treatments suck. 

 

As to meat production I agree modern meat production is messed up, so is most modern dairy... very few cows or goats get to graze they are all crammed into small spaces, so sad. I also know fresh beef and fresh chicken (properly raised) taste totally different than what we get in the stores, so does freshly caught fish versus the old fish in stores. People have no clue what fresh food tastes like anymore. I personally am finding my taste is changing on what I like and dislike, I really have been asking do I enjoy the taste of X or Y thing versus am I just used to eating this. Or how do I feel after eating or drinking something. Some things I have retried that I loved in the past I doubt I will ever buy again or eat again, just tastes nasty now or makes me feel bad.

 

So not so much save critters or the planet as much as just finding food everyone can eat in my house is the quest.

 

On the shocking side of this I discovered I have coworkers with meat allergies and they know less about veggies than me and won’t try new veggies... no joke. They are basically living on a Carb diet. Pot luck I made a Vegan friendly dish but the non meat eaters didn’t know what Spaghetti Squash was (that included Vegetarians for ethical reasons) so would not try it... how this is even possible baffles me. After people found out it was Squash despite the sign that said Squash they tried it... sigh. I brought a Jello Ring last pot luck, as this food phobia thing half of my coworkers seem to have got is exhausting. If I bring a new meat based food never an issue, but bring fruits of veggies they don’t know and forget it. My eggs were too yellow one time versus store bought low nutrition pale yellow eggs... even after several people who know about farming practices explained my birds are on a better diet a lot would not try the bright scrambled eggs. The few who did kept telling everyone best eggs ever, but nope mine are wrong color so must be bad. Amazing how fearful people are of new foods or fresh food. 

 

Peace folks and happy holidays.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Princess Kiara]

I haven't read the thread, but I will say, as an omnivore, I don't care what you eat. However, as a pet owner and animal lover, I will judge the living hell out of you if you, as a vegan, force your diet onto your carnivorous pet, be it a cat, dog or snake. I don't care how many bogus, cherrypicked "studies" you can dig up about them being "able to survive on a vegan diet" and artificial taurine being a suitable replacemenr for a species appropriate natural diet.

 

One thing I just don't get. Isn't one of the premises of veganism to avoid "speciesism" aka species chauvinism? Why then do they immediately turn around and force their human perceptions and beliefs onto another species with different habits and needs to ours? Isn't that a form of species chauvinism as well-making the assumption that our choices as humans are somehow better than the way Nature (or, in the case of dogs, man) made these other species?

 

Also, rabid vegans' cognitive dissonance regarding working animals is astounding. They claim honey is "stolen" from bees, when in faact they are left with more than enough to survive and what is taken helps to avoid honey impaction. They claim chickens are "forced" to lay eggs, when if an egg is unfertilized, the chicken has no use or need for it. They claim wool is "stolen" from sheep, yet happily neglect the fact that sheep will die if left unsheared (or they will blame it on farmers breeding the sheep). They clamor about "consent", comparing AI of an animal in estrus to rape, yet have no qualms about aggressively pushing the surgical removal of dogs' and cats' reproductive organs...obviously wihout consent. They rail against the careful, selective breeding of working dogs, again clamoring about consent and "the dog should choose who it wants to breed with". They refer to herding, service, therapy, police and military K9, hunting, mushing, agility, weight pull, flyball, races, dock diving etc. as "enslavement", ignoring the fact that these dogs have the drive and desire to work genetically bred into them and are miserable if not given an outlet. They act as though the dogs are forced, but will outright ignore experienced dogmen and women who tell them that it is, in truth, quite impossible to force a dog to work if it does not want to work.

 

The conclusion I've reached after years of arguing with these people on the internet (referring only to the rude, rabid, irrational vegans, not the decent people who just happen to eat vegan diets) is that they only pretend to care about animals so they can have a moral high ground, but in reality they tend to be extremely ignorant, uneducated people who refuse to learn or take into account evidemce that does not support their agenda. I have come to realize that too many of them are willing to commit outright animal abuse in the name of veganism; they also wish death on and make horrible comments about vegetarians, "carnists" and "necrovores" (omnivores). And it just doesn't make sense. How can you campaign for animal rights yet know nothing about animals, all the while actuallu abusing the animals in your care?

 

I'd love to debate this in a civilized, intelligent manner, so feel free to @ me if you care to respond