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Vegetarianism/ Veganism

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So... I was wondering what were people's thoughts on this? Are you one of them or something similar? Why?

 

I personally have been a vegetarian all my life and would never eat meat. To me that is killing an innocent animal. However I have many friends who aren't vegetarians and by no means think any less of them because of it.

 

Before posting in this topic please re-read your post. If you can't post politely or you just come in here to make broad statements with no facts to back them up, please refrain from posting.

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I am an omnivore. That said, I could never be a vegetarian for moral reasons, even if I wanted to. It'd be vegan or nothing, and avoiding all animal products is almost impossible.

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Out of interest whats so bad about being a vegetarian? What distinguishes it from the other two?

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Well, I suppose from some perspectives, doing something is better than nothing. But if it were my choice, I wouldn't be able to really stop at the "something" mark. For instance, cows used to produce milk are not really treated much better than meat-producers, and in many cases their calves go to supply another food industry (veal).

 

The problem is really the factory food industry... if I had some nice, quiet little farm near me that I could visit and obtain my milk/meat/animal products from animals who I knew had a nice life and were treated well, I wouldn't have a problem with it from that regard.

 

I do love meat very much, though, so while I can acknowledge that there are serious problems with the food industry I'm still eating it.

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I'm vegetarian! I haven't always been - I was raised in a family that ate meat and so I did too. I stopped eating meat because I feel better eating that way.

 

I wish I could go vegan, but I love cheese too much. I get organic cheese that comes from non-factory farms, though.

 

That's just my personal choice - I agree with you that everyone has to make up his/her own mind about what and how to eat.

Edited by inlaterdays

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I agree about the factory farm industry and would much prefer to be buying local, unfortunately it's quite expensive in my area sad.gif

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I am vegan for both moral choice, and health benefits!

 

I have not however, always been vegan. I have grown up on meat all of my life. My dad is a huge fan of chicken and burgers and my mom would get whatever is cheap. My mother went vegan a few months ago, that's when i officially became vegan like i had always wanted(but never got a chance to. it was always 'eat this or eat nothing')

Since she went vegan, i have had the chance to go with it.

Also, i LOVE tofu, i LOVE salad, i LOVE rice milk, and i LOVE vegan smoothies and shakes!

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for me milk is milk, rice or cow.

 

I'm going Vegatarian as soon as I move out,

Rent's aren't letting me. they say it's starving myself.

 

I hate meat. it tastes terrible, the only seperation between food meat and roadkill is that the roadkill probably had a more humane life (and death)

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I have no issues with vegetarianism, so long as it does not endanger minors. The number of times I've had to remove otherwise adored children from vegetarian or vegan homes because they refuse to feed their children needed meat or animal byproducts is so sad to me.

 

I could not do it, it contravenes marime law.

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I have nothing against vegetarianism, however it has big drawbacks. Humans are omnivores and meat is natural and important part of your diet, as it contains vital minerals and so forth which can't be obtained elsewhere.

 

'Killing an innocent animal'. Um, yes. That's nature. Lions kill innocent animals. Sharks do. And some kill horribly. What I don't like is how the animals in these farms are treated for much of their life. Whereas most wild prey have lived a natural and humane life, our food animals are often keep in cramped, crowded conditions as soon as they could stand.

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Omnivore here; never had any moral qualms over eating meat. In the end, all animals die at some point of time, and even vegans, though they don't eat animals, still eat plants, which are also alive.

 

I don't mind other people being vegetarian/vegan, as long as they do not try to force it on other people around them (especially in the scenario Shiny mentioned).

 

I am, however, all for improving the lives of farm animals.

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I have no issues with vegetarianism, so long as it does not endanger minors. The number of times I've had to remove otherwise adored children from vegetarian or vegan homes because they refuse to feed their children needed meat or animal byproducts is so sad to me.

 

I could not do it, it contravenes marime law.

There is NO basis for this idea. It is PERFECTLY possible to raise a child vegetarian - and even vegan as long as you give them B12 and (non-animal !) vitamin supplements.

 

PLEASE don't perpetuate this myth. My VERY healthy grandchildren are both being raised vegetarian and have been since birth. They are pretty much bombproof. And I know several healthy vegan children. I used to work in public health and wrote several leaflets about this very topic for worried parents. EVERYTHING you need is in non-meat/fish products. And vegetarian - including eggs and dairy - there is not the SLIGHTEST issue.

 

How do you think the population carries on in cultures where veganism is the norm ?

 

I do hope you DON'T remove children from their homes just for that reason. I feel rather ill thinking about it. If you really do - please take better professional advice and stop. (where is Kestra when I'm in need...)

 

Many parents who raise children as omnivores feed them FAR worse, with junk food, no veggies and the rest.

 

(Hell, are you in London UK - googling leads me to suppose....)

 

Amanda Baker at the Vegan Society says the real issue isn't whether a child's diet is vegan or not, or restricted or not – the important thing is whether it's healthy. "There are plenty of children who are eating a bad diet, and they're not vegan," she says. "Vegan parents have to plan their child's food carefully. Of course there are pitfalls, but there are pitfalls for all parents and for any diet.

 

"The reality is that vegan parents are more likely to cook at home, and are likely to be very knowledgeable about nutrition because they have had to make a lot of effort to follow the diet they do. Many of them follow a wholefood diet, and avoid trans-fats and too much salt. It's actually much easier for vegans and their children to meet the five-a-day guidelines than for other people."

 

Vegans, she says, are victims of the fact that many people, from doctors and health workers to social workers and other parents, are badly informed. "We've written to every GP's surgery in an attempt to make sure there's better information out there. Parents can come in for mistaken pressure from people with genuine concerns, simply because the issues aren't properly understood."

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I am fairly confident Shiny meant only the cases where the children's parents do not (manage to) provide them with all the nutrients they need to grow up healthy (pay in mind that a growing organism is a bit more sensitive to possible insufficiencies in the diet).

It is possible to raise children properly with vegetarian or even vegan components only, but the person must know exactly what s/he is doing. Many people do not do sufficient research / don't have the money to actually buy products which contain the rarer irreplaceable vitamins, amino acids and what have you in sufficient amounts.

 

 

(And fish are animals too. Personal quirk of mine - I absolutely refuse to acknowledge people who eat fish as vegetarians.)

Edited by Shienvien

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I'm omnivorous because we evolved to be omnivorous. The ability to consume and digest meats is what allowed us to survive an ice age, a time where exclusively consuming plant matter was about akin to a death wish. I have no qualms with vegans and vegetarians. I've had a vegan friend who would not eat anything that had been touched with a utensil that had not been sterilized between touching an animal product and touching her food, and we were always respectful of each other and our respective choices. I understand that most vegetarians and vegans make this choice because they support humane treatment of the animals we raise for our use. That's a cause I can get behind, but I have no access to a local farmer's market for my meats (I live in the mountains ok) so I'm stuck with what I have.

 

I love steak, I love most meats, etc. so I personally wouldn't have the willpower to go through with it. That's a thing that I do, and a choice that I make. I'm not going to judge people for theirs, and I will not tolerate people who try to judge me for mine. Thus, I am not going to shove a raw steak at someone purely for being vegan. That's reserved for if they try to take it away from me somehow.

Fun fact: My favourite food is actually tofu, for the versatility in cooking as well as its variety in terms of textures and flavor. Flavor that many people claim it does not have, usually as part of their argument for why they don't want to be vegan. Tofu has a flavor, it's just very delicate and very subtle.

 

Unfortunately, people like this girl (warning for strong language, though I suppose it could be considered a source for information if you look past her aggression and accusatory holier-than-thou attitude) give vegans a bad name. They've even given omnivores their own special slur. I'm a bloodmouth, you guys. Oh noes, I'm supposed to be so offended. Yeahno. I'm just going to go hug my respectful vegan friend who realizes that the choice to continue eating meat does not make someone a supporter of rape and murder. :|

 

One thing I don't understand is the "wild animals live a humane life" rebuttal to the "animals in the wild are killed pretty gruesomely" argument, though. I mean... wild animals are usually not regularly fed, often struggle with shelter, have zero access to any form of medical attention (eg. immunizations) and are thus more susceptible to disease, death is usually far from quick (ever seen a pack of wolves disembowel a live deer that's still trying to flee with its intestines hanging...?), and so on. In many cases living in the wild is far from humane, for both predators and prey. Not much more humane than being overcrowded and dirty, if you ask me.

Edited by Lythiaren

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I am fairly confident Shiny meant only the cases where the children's parents do not (manage to) provide them with all the nutrients they need to grow up healthy (pay in mind that a growing organism is a bit more sensitive to possible insufficiencies in the diet).

It is possible to raise children properly with vegetarian or even vegan components only, but the person must know exactly what s/he is doing. Many people do not do sufficient research / don't have the money to actually buy products which contain the rarer irreplaceable vitamins, amino acids and what have you in sufficient amounts.

 

 

(And fish are animals too. Personal quirk of mine - I absolutely refuse to acknowledge people who eat fish as vegetarians.)

Shiny said specifically:

 

I have no issues with vegetarianism, so long as it does not endanger minors. The number of times I've had to remove otherwise adored children from vegetarian or vegan homes because they refuse to feed their children needed meat or animal byproducts is so sad to me.

 

That was EXACTLY what Shiny said, with my added bold. And it is NOT true and not necessary and totally unfair to responsible parents. All sorts of parents feed their kids well and all sorts feed them badly. On the whole the worst served kids are those fed junk food; that is why so many of the children we see around are FAT and even OBESE, cannot run across the park and the rest.

 

Sadly many are also on low incomes and feed their children that stuff because they are in appalling accommodation where you can't cook (think the UK bright idea of families in bed and breakfast places where they are kicked out during the day...) - and also because junk food is far too often the cheapest option.

 

I agree about fish. There are all sorts:

 

Lacto-ovo vegetarians eat dairy and eggs; lacto-vegetarians will include dairy products but not eggs; pesco-vegetarian eat fish... Pollo-vegetarians eat poultry, such as chicken, turkey, and duck. "Total vegetarians" eat only plant food; no animal foods, including fish, eggs, dairy products, and honey, and vegans technically also won't USE animal products (think leather shoes, silk shirts...)

 

I'm tired now.

 

I am married to a lacto-ovo, and have a daughter and two grandchildren on that path. I am a bloodmouth, but try to stick with ethically raised meat and fish.

 

@ Lyth:

 

I am experienced in tofu as a result and I LOATHE it except when it is smoked. I know it has a taste. I LOATHE that taste ! Him loves it. Bully for him. He can have it.

 

xd.png

Edited by fuzzbucket

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Sorry to interrupt, because you guys seem to be having an important debate and as a non-vegetarian I don't really have anything to say in the matter-could someone stop using the term "bloodmouth?" Seriously that is some sick term. I know that vegans are the minority and that THEY're the ones being oppressed by society so as a person who's the majority and thus has the power, I don't get a say in how the minority calls me but, it keeps bringing me back memories of horror films. And I'm sure that when I eat meat, I don't drip blood from my mouth.

 

I mean, I know it's supposed to make me feel bad about eating meat and such, but all I feel is....to be honest, "you want to use a sick term so that you can bully other people to following what you think is right?" That's not going to make me become a vegan, I'm afraid, just a bit disgusted at some vegans, that's all.

 

Sorry if this sounds prejudiced or privileged or whatnot. I sincerely apologize if I come off as that way, it's just that I've not had many, well almost no contact with vegans who were that militant before and I don't know how to react to it. I would sincerely appreciate it if someone finds something that I did wrong and explained why.

 

Thanks!

 

@Lyth-yes, tofu is delicious smile.gif it's just that some people choose to eat it in a very not yummy way biggrin.gif

Edited by ylangylang

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I will eat your share of tofu, fuzz. I will eat it all up so you don't have to. :3

 

EDIT@ylangylang: That would be me, I'm sorry. Won't bring it up again, just... wanted to bring attention to how some people have coined such a term for us omnivores. It's like they want to link us to PETA shock images (kind of a "their blood is on your hands" thing maybe?) to try and force us to join them. Militant people are scary. D:

Though I share the opinion of someone on Tumblr, that it's "the most [...] metal slur I’ll ever be called", I understand where it can cause some pretty major squick.

Edited by Lythiaren

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I will eat your share of tofu, fuzz. I will eat it all up so you don't have to. :3

Seconded.

 

And yeah, it's pretty shocking. I know that you didn't mean any harm by it, it's just that...ugh.

Nice imagination though, gotta grant that.

Edited by ylangylang

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And Shiny also said that she has no issues with vegetarianism @fuzzbucket.

 

I don't mind people who are vegetarian or vegan, as long as they don't mind others who aren't. I eat meat - I don't eat excessive amounts of it and I keep it balanced - and I am healthy, but that's not to say that if you DON'T eat meat, you're not healthy. It's simply your choice on what you eat, and no one is forcing you.

 

(think the UK bright idea of families in bed and breakfast places where they are kicked out during the day...)

That doesn't speak for the whole of the UK.

 

Not trying to pick a fight here, I'm just stating my opinion.

 

I agree with @ylangylang too tongue.gif

 

And I'll have my own share of tofu, then D:

Edited by cfmtfm

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I'd love to state my opinion, but I would only be paraphrasing Lythiaren for the most part. I eat meat and I don't have a problem with those who do not. I'm actually not very well-versed on the treatment of animals that we use, though. You'd think I would be, being a former FFA member and all that, but alas! The things we forget once we're out of school...

 

I did have a boyfriend who lived with me for a month before asking me if I was vegetarian. Though I'm certainly an omnivore there was a time in my life when I just didn't have the craving for it. When my parents divorced I chose to stay with my dad. He didn't know how to cook... just grill. It was pretty awesome at first, but it got old after a while, and for the first couple years I was out on my own I was not very omnivorous at all. XD

 

...I want to try tofu now and I don't know why. Subliminal messaging!

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And Shiny also said that she has no issues with vegetarianism @fuzzbucket.

 

I don't mind people who are vegetarian or vegan, as long as they don't mind others who aren't. I eat meat - I don't eat excessive amounts of it and I keep it balanced - and I am healthy, but that's not to say that if you DON'T eat meat, you're not healthy. It's simply your choice on what you eat, and no one is forcing you.

 

 

That doesn't speak for the whole of the UK.

But she does have issues with it for children. And that's wrong. She said she would remove them from families that refused to feel them animal/fish products.

 

And yes, some parts of the UK do better by the homeless than others (I am British as well as Canadian, and IN the UK half the time, tha knows... xd.png) - but the principle still stands - if you cannot cook (think those evil prepaid electricity meters where the poor have to pay MORE per unit than the rich) you are often stuck with cheap junk food...

 

Thanks lyth; I shall pass the evil stuff down my router RIGHT NOW biggrin.gif Now where are those cheese Tucs ?

 

I used the term bloodmouth simply to show that I refuse to be guilted by it. Just as I tell people I was a nutter in the loony bin at one point - as I am not in the least ashamed of or stigmatised by my mental illness history.

Edited by fuzzbucket

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I assumed Shiny was referring to children who needed specific diets, whose parents were not providing the diet nor the supplements.

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I love meat far too much. Sorry guys.

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