ANSWERED:Breeding between scrolls

[platedlizard]

Nope. I think breeding between scrolls would work fine for another game, but not dc. I'm against altering fundamental parts of the game. Call me a fundy

[Forest]

My first reaction before reading the original post was, "NO NO NO! That defeats the point of the game!" However, I really like how thought out this idea is and it seems to make a lot of sense. If it's implemented, I'm sure it would take some getting used to, but I kinda like it. It'd bring an interesting dynamic to the game.

 

I'm not a hardcore supporter, but I would still vote yes to this.

[Allspice]

I like this idea. I think it's really well thought out and everything being completely optional is always a plus.

[Syphoneira]

While I can see the benefits, I think what bothers me most about this suggestion is that it makes inroads into the 'sanctity of our scrolls', so to speak.

 

Our scrolls would be no longer independently ours, but could be used by others, and I think the ramifications of this, which I personally feel that I don't fully comprehend, could bear some consideration/discussion...

 

The psychological aspects of this might open up any number of new cans of worms not previously considered, creating a very basic shift away from the DC we know.

[Fuzzbucket]

While I can see the benefits, I think what bothers me most about this suggestion is that it makes inroads into the 'sanctity of our scrolls', so to speak.

 

Our scrolls would be no longer independently ours, but could be used by others, and I think the ramifications of this, which I personally feel that I don't fully comprehend, could bear some consideration/discussion...

 

The psychological aspects of this might open up any number of new cans of worms not previously considered, creating a very basic shift away from the DC we know.

Thank you for expressing my gut feeling which was till now unworded

 

I value the sanctity of my scroll - and even - kind of - its privacy.

[egwenna]

I like the idea. For some lineages, it would make life so much easier, especially when it involves holidays or discontinued sprites like Frills.

 

and I kinda like showing off my collection.

 

For dragons that I use heavily myself, like my cb metals, it's easy enough to disable for them and I can't imagine that I'd have any trouble hitting "ignore" for anyone who had the nerve to get testy and bother me.

[edwardelricfreak]

It IS an opt IN feature, right? Not opt out? That way no one gets bombarded from the start?

 

I really like the idea. I would allow most stuff to be bred, but I'd make sure that the person is actually in need of a certain dragon (either they don't have the dragon, or have ONE but need the opposite gender). I don't stalk the breeding threads and don't want to necessarily list myself as a "breeder" because I'm technically not, and not everyone on DC uses the forums...

 

 

Nope. I think breeding between scrolls would work fine for another game, but not dc. I'm against altering fundamental parts of the game. Call me a fundy

I'm not sure I understand you...

...is a fundamental part of DC NOT breeding dragons? Fundamental, in the sense that I think you're meaning, is 'forming a necessary base or core; of central importance'

 

To me, it seems the fundamental parts of DC are:

-Collect and raise eggs/hatchlings to adulthood

-Breed dragons to get more eggs

 

...and that's about it. That's the core of DC. Everything else is fluff. They've already been altered several times before. Adding new dragons alters it, because now there's more dragons to raise. Adding in the BSA's alters it, because they affect raising and breeding. Changing rare breeding to allow rarexrare alters it because now breeding is different.

 

I'm just not sure if what you said is a valid argument. I think I get what you're TRYING to say, but you said it in a way that is incorrect.

 

While I can see the benefits, I think what bothers me most about this suggestion is that it makes inroads into the 'sanctity of our scrolls', so to speak.

 

Our scrolls would be no longer independently ours, but could be used by others, and I think the ramifications of this, which I personally feel that I don't fully comprehend, could bear some consideration/discussion...

 

The psychological aspects of this might open up any number of new cans of worms not previously considered, creating a very basic shift away from the DC we know.

Thank you for expressing my gut feeling which was till now unworded

 

I value the sanctity of my scroll - and even - kind of - its privacy.

 

If you want privacy, you can always hide your scroll, or at least the adults.

 

Also, if this is implemented, HOPEFULLY it's opt in and not opt out.

 

But how will it not be independently yours? It's not like, even with the option on, that anyone can freely breed with your dragons. You would still have to approve the pairing. You would have control over which dragons are allowed to breed with others and which aren't. That sounds like control to me...

 

We've already had plenty shifts "away from the DC we know". Again, as I said above, adding new dragons, BSA's, different breeding compatibility...and adding onto just that, the addition of the badges at the tops of pages AND the separation of the cave into six biomes and no more AP blocks.

 

 

 

I really would like more in depth opinions against this. Arguments that are based on literally detrimental things and not appeals to emotion and 'glittering generalities'...

 

With the 'glittering generalities' and appeals to emotion, it takes away from the validity of some of your arguments...and I think you're trying to be valid, and you CAN be, but just try to avoid those things.

[Fuzzbucket]

The change it makes is pretty fundamental. You get to breed between scrolls. How does that not change the essence of the game, which has always said you absolutely could not.

 

Privacy - it isn't not showing my scroll, it is the going it alone thing. As Syphoneira says - our scrolls would not longer be "independently ours." Detrimental - the meaning of that word depends on your feeling about that. It would take away that total independence.

 

It would also - I am 1000% sure - lead to begging. Even worse that the sort where people DEMAND that you breed for them - and when you don't choose to, bombard you with PMs and then emails asking why you haven't done it yet. If this hasn't happened to you - congratulations. Yes, I'm sure there would be special mechanisms in place, as the OP suggested - you show the dragons you are prepared to offer - but nothing will stop someone coming on forum to demand - with the added whine "but why NOT, it won't AFFECT your scroll...."

 

I think perhaps no-one has ever hassled you to breed ?

 

And by the way - what is wrong with emotion ? Many of us feel very strongly about this game - whch differs from most exactly because of its solitary nature

[KageSora]

I'm not sure I understand you...

...is a fundamental part of DC NOT breeding dragons? Fundamental, in the sense that I think you're meaning, is 'forming a necessary base or core; of central importance'

 

To me, it seems the fundamental parts of DC are:

-Collect and raise eggs/hatchlings to adulthood

-Breed dragons to get more eggs

 

...and that's about it. That's the core of DC. Everything else is fluff. They've already been altered several times before. Adding new dragons alters it, because now there's more dragons to raise. Adding in the BSA's alters it, because they affect raising and breeding. Changing rare breeding to allow rarexrare alters it because now breeding is different.

DC is, at it's core, a game that you largely play on you own. There is no on-site method of communication, so any social aspects such as breeding and gifting MUST be done through other channels such as the forums or the IRC or a different online community of players.

 

That's where the change to the fundamentals is--it's taking what is a solo mechanic and making it a potentially social mechanic.

 

That's actually a fairly big shift when you think about it.

 

 

 

Personally, I'm not fond of the idea, but as long as it's 100% opt IN, then I don't hate it. I'll just turn it off. And screw anybody who begs me to turn it on. I play DC largely as a solo game, with just the occasional gifting and trading. So I'm not terribly fond of suggestions that slowly add more social aspects into the game.

 

Trading was only really added because there was a demand for it by the forums--prior to that it exploited the system in a way TJ planned to close eventually no matter if trading had been implemented or not. So that was more an officially added alternative to a previously tolerated exploitation.

 

Currently, there is no such tolerated exploitation for breeding between scrolls, so it would entirely be adding a social mechanic that does not exist in any form currently on the site.

 

Like I said, opt IN I don't hate because I can just keep it shut off.

 

 

But I'm still not fond of the idea.

[Fuzzbucket]

DC is, at it's core, a game that you largely play on you own. There is no on-site method of communication, so any social aspects such as breeding and gifting MUST be done through other channels such as the forums or the IRC or a different online community of players.

 

That's where the change to the fundamentals is--it's taking what is a solo mechanic and making it a potentially social mechanic.

 

That's actually a fairly big shift when you think about it.

 

You always say what I mean better than I do

[edwardelricfreak]

The change it makes is pretty fundamental. You get to breed between scrolls. How does that not change the essence of the game, which has always said you absolutely could not.

 

Privacy - it isn't not showing my scroll, it is the going it alone thing. As Syphoneira says - our scrolls would not longer be "independently ours." Detrimental - the meaning of that word depends on your feeling about that. It would take away that total independence.

 

It would also - I am 1000% sure - lead to begging. Even worse that the sort where people DEMAND that you breed for them - and when you don't choose to, bombard you with PMs and then emails asking why you haven't done it yet. If this hasn't happened to you - congratulations. Yes, I'm sure there would be special mechanisms in place, as the OP suggested - you show the dragons you are prepared to offer - but nothing will stop someone coming on forum to demand - with the added whine "but why NOT, it won't AFFECT your scroll...."

 

I think perhaps no-one has ever hassled you to breed ?

 

And by the way - what is wrong with emotion ? Many of us feel very strongly about this game - whch differs from most  exactly because of its solitary nature

The change doesn't make it fundamental, it affects a fundamental part of the site, which is breeding. If you WANT to go at playing the game alone, you still have the option to.

I guess I'm just not understanding that part...

 

Again, it's still independently yours. You don't have to allow your dragons to breed or not-- and that's okay!

 

Begging already probably exists in the form of PMs for people who show their scrolls/participate in breeding and that kind of stuff. It won't lead to begging. And not every scrollname is the same as the forum name. Any begging posts are SPAM and would be treated as such. Posts, PMs, and emails are all also VERY easy to ignore and you don't even have to read them, just delete them. You may have to delete them a bit often, but I don't think it would be much more than any begging messages already existing.

 

No one's hassled me to breed because I've recently gotten more rares and I don't say that I have breeding lists, I'd think. o3o

 

Nothing's wrong with emotion, until you argue using it. This isn't my opinion, but emotion makes for strong arguments, yes, but often they are not...valid? I don't want to use valid. They are used some of the time to avoid facts and appeal to the human side of us. :3

 

I understand the feeling of solitude, but I think it would still have that even with this feature. I mean, Teleport didn't necessarily take away from the solitary nature. You still have to come to the forums if you want to set up something for specific people. Also the forum is the opposite of the solitary feeling...I guess it offers the right amount? Otherwise I can't put two and two together. It doesn't make sense to me that you want solitude but are on the forums...maybe to pitch in ideas and find breeders? That's what I originally came here for. o3o

 

 

KageSora: You do explain it well. That makes sense, but the forum also makes it kind of social, too, I would think. I think with the objections and what I inferred from the first post, it WOULD be opt in.

 

I guess I'm so used to most sites having SOME bit of social features (even though I have a facebook I barely use it except to check on things from my church group) that it doesn't seem that weird for it to change to being somewhat more social than it is...

[angelicdragonpuppy]

I still feel that demands for interscroll breeding wouldn't be any more prevalent than demands for breeding right now, honestly.

 

Also, I don't think it'd be much more intrusive than people being able to offer on your teleport trades without your permission (honestly it should be even LESS intrusive, considering your default for everything would be "off," whereas you don't have much control about who offers on your trades if you post a trade link here).

 

I also like DC as a more private game (I only really wander into the forums for trading and dragon requests, really), and even if this were added I'd still probably mostly stay to my own scroll, so... yah. I just don't see it as forcing socialness on anyone; you can continue to be as independent as you care to be.

Edited June 25, 2013 by angelicdragonpuppy

[Fuzzbucket]

I guess I'm so used to most sites having SOME bit of social features (even though I have a facebook I barely use it except to check on things from my church group) that it doesn't seem that weird for it to change to being somewhat more social than it is...

Whereas NOTHING would induce me to go on facebook, and I am totally NOT used to sites with social features - the ones I am on are shared interest sites, which aren't like that at all (no like buttons and stuff ) and I would steer clear on ANY game with social features even of any kind. If this were brought in I am so hooked that I wouldn't leave (probably) but I really would hate it. And if that is glittering generality - so be it. It is how I feel, and that counts too.

 

And if it did come in - let's face it, you'd end up needing to use it to be on a level playing field in the end...

[Mewtie]

I support this. It would make it easier to work on nice lineages.

I know someone who owns this nice female horse dragon: http://dragcave.net/lineage/LaUEp and I own this male horse dragon with almost the same code: http://dragcave.net/lineage/LaUEr The problem is that they are on different scrolls... ._. But even if you could breed between two scrolls, the dragons can still reject each other, right? (Oh dear, I wish there was a way to prevent rejection....)

[tjekan]

I really don't think inter-scroll breeding would increase begging. Everyone who would have the inclination to beg pretty much IS already begging. They wouldn't be any more likely to beg you to breed your shimmerscale with one of their dragons any more than they'd be begging you just to breed a shimmerscale for them in the first place.

 

It *would* change the game a bit though, and I'm not sure we'd like the result. It seems to me like we already have a problem with stratification here-- artists with alts, CB prize owners, and CB holly owners can command their own prices, and owners of alt valentines are in moderate demand. Changing the game to allow these people to interbreed their dragons together will intensify some of these issues. The result will be more and more lineages popping up that the "average" user can never hope to acquire. It seems to me that we have too many of those already. A purebred even-gen holly lineage, or a "rainbow" tinsel and shimmer only lineage, or a purebred spriter's alt holiday dragon, would be a thing of beauty indeed, but utterly beyond any normal player's ability ever to get. Besides frustrating and driving off would-be new cavers, it means that more established players who don't have any of those CB super-rares would now have to be trying to pay TWO different players to orchestrate breeding them one of the new special lineages. I don't really consider "Would you take three CB golds in exchange for breeding your holly to so-and-so's spriter alt" to be BEGGING, lol... but it would still get to be a hassle.

 

The idea doesn't make me recoil in horror or anything, but I'm not seeing too much upside. It doesn't sound like it would really do much of anything for me except give me the opportunity to compete for some more super-rare lineages that only a couple dozen people could make. Which I probably would try to do, but the idea just doesn't fill me with much excitement or optimism.

[auroshen]

Hmm. Just saw this thread. Jeez I'm out of it!

 

Anyway, I like this idea but I'm concerned about the lineages it would create and the problem of "who would keep the eggs".

 

Firstly, there would be lots of purebred metallic lineages, even perhaps PB prize lineages or lines made of super rare, unobtainable lineages.

 

Secondly, this would almost definitely require use of the forum! Many players do not use the forum, and I did not for almost a year of me playing the game. Without forum contact it would be near impossible for this to happen.

 

Thirdly, who would keep the eggs? Would it always be an identical twin clutch? What would happen? (sorry if this question has already been answered, I did not thoroughly read the thread.)

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Firstly, there would be lots of purebred metallic lineages, even perhaps PB prize lineages or lines made of super rare, unobtainable lineages.

 

Secondly, this would almost definitely require use of the forum! Many players do not use the forum, and I did not for almost a year of me playing the game. Without forum contact it would be near impossible for this to happen.

 

Thirdly, who would keep the eggs? Would it always be an identical twin clutch? What would happen? (sorry if this question has already been answered, I did not thoroughly read the thread.)

1. I doubt PB Metallics would ever become a huge thing, as even now they're not that huge... they're just too much of a pain to maintain. Even if people could pair up with someone else and only use one of their Metals, if they want to continue the lineage that's still yet more Metals involved... it gets pretty tiring pretty fast, I'd imagine. Then again, would it be a big issue if people WERE making PB Metallic lineages? As for crazy special PB Prize / Alt / whatever lineages, yes, it's possible, but people who own those things already have a major lineage-creating advantage over the rest of us. Personally I wouldn't be any more jealous of a PB Prize than I would be of the perfect Prize checkers they can already create by networking with other Prize owners to trade for 2nd gen fails, but maybe that's just me...

 

2. Trading also requires use of the forums, though. So I'm not sure what point you're making on this one...? ;;

 

3. This is answered in the first post; it's not too complicated, but it is a bit of a mouthful, so I'm going to point you there rather than try to type it all up again, haha.

Edited June 26, 2013 by angelicdragonpuppy

[DarkEternity]

1. People can demand whatever they want already for 2nd gen shimmers and stuff. You can get CB metals already, so why go to the extra effort? What happens if you are involving TWO special dragons in a breeding request is needlessly tying up dragons whose 'could've been offspring' would be worth more than a baby bred from the two combined. So the only people who would legitimately participate in these kinds of projects are individuals who are actually concerned about lineage creation: which is few to no one (judging by the state of prize lineages, everything is already a stair because people are that lazy and lineageless dragons are generally worth more than lineaged dragons)

2. People already have lists which are not going to be moved whether or not this comes to pass. One user already has a CB shimmer and CB tinsel, but they are busy with breeding like most other people.

 

[KageSora]

KageSora: You do explain it well. That makes sense, but the forum also makes it kind of social, too, I would think. I think with the objections and what I inferred from the first post, it WOULD be opt in.

 

I guess I'm so used to most sites having SOME bit of social features (even though I have a facebook I barely use it except to check on things from my church group) that it doesn't seem that weird for it to change to being somewhat more social than it is...

But the forum does not FORCE you to play the game itself in a social way.

 

I could easily be a member of the forums who never trades or participates in gifting. Who never accepts eggs that I did not pick up or breed myself. Hell I could restrict my scroll to ONLY eggs from the cave or eggs that I breed and completely ignore any eggs that were ever picked up by another user, thus playing the game 100% on my own.

 

Adding a social aspect to the game itself, even if it's optional, is a shift in the current basic core of the game.

 

I actually really like DC because it's a dragon-collecting game that I can play on my own. I don't have to deal with the stupid social crap that's pretty much taken over these days. Some of us don't do well with being forced to have social aspects shoved on us at all times. Some of us like when we find a game that we can actually enjoy at our own pace without having social aspects forced on us. With DC, any social aspects are those that I've decided to participate in, rather than features built into the game.

 

 

If this is 100% opt-IN (but opt-out better than always on), I wouldn't hate it so much. I mean, I'd just report anybody who begs me to turn it on. But I'm still wary of where it'd lead. The changes could be very positive, mostly neutral, or very negative. I'm just more wary of this because I happen to like the lack of lots of social elements that DC currently has.

[Fuzzbucket]

But the forum does not FORCE you to play the game itself in a social way.

 

I could easily be a member of the forums who never trades or participates in gifting.  Who never accepts eggs that I did not pick up or breed myself.  Hell I could restrict my scroll to ONLY eggs from the cave or eggs that I breed and completely ignore any eggs that were ever picked up by another user, thus playing the game 100% on my own.

 

Adding a social aspect to the game itself, even if it's optional, is a shift in the current basic core of the game.

 

I actually really like DC because it's a dragon-collecting game that I can play on my own.  I don't have to deal with the stupid social crap that's pretty much taken over these days.  Some of us don't do well with being forced to have social aspects shoved on us at all times.  Some of us like when we find a game that we can actually enjoy at our own pace without having social aspects forced on us.  With DC, any social aspects are those that I've decided to participate in, rather than features built into the game.

 

 

If this is 100% opt-IN (but opt-out better than always on), I wouldn't hate it so much.  I mean, I'd just report anybody who begs me to turn it on.  But I'm still wary of where it'd lead.  The changes could be very positive, mostly neutral, or very negative.  I'm just more wary of this because I happen to like the lack of lots of social elements that DC currently has.

With your every word. I hadn't even THOUGHT of the begging you to turn it on thing

 

Edited for typo. A bad one !

Edited June 26, 2013 by fuzzbucket

[Sweetsong]

I really like this idea. I don't know that I would use it much, but as long as it's opt in, I support this being implemented! Very cool idea. The pros seem pretty awesome and the cons seem minimal (with the whole "harrassing" argument, I see their point, but I can't see how it would be much different from now.)

[Drakefyre]

I don't support. I and many others like the solitary nature of DC, and this would ruin it.

[DarkEternity]

Begging for eggs happens already. No one in their right mind would bother begging you to 'turn it on' it's a waste of time, they'd ask for an EGG which they are ALREADY DOING. But in three years of DC life no one has ever begged anything from me.

[KageSora]

Begging for eggs happens already. No one in their right mind would bother begging you to 'turn it on' it's a waste of time, they'd ask for an EGG which they are ALREADY DOING. But in three years of DC life no one has ever begged anything from me.

I'd consider begging somebody to allow you to breed with one of their dragons and to give you the egg, if that person already has the option off, to be begging them to "turn it on", since they kinda have it disabled.

[Guillotine]

Isn't persistent begging considered harassment and thus a reportable offense, though? I mean, if someone persists after the initial "no", that's generally considered bad behavior and I'm pretty sure you can report people for it. Plus, begging already happens. I'm pretty sure that the people who would beg for breeding are already begging for eggs, so I don't think you'll see this surge in begging you guys seem to expect.