Health Care

[TikindiDragon]

. Add to that the demonisation of flagrantly but harmlessly batty people - like those who talk to themselves in the street shock horror - as being dangerous witches and the rest - and the result is that no-one dares ask for help

Oh, I dunno. The stereotype of the 'Great British Eccentric' has actually led to a lot less stigma over the years for people with relatively 'minor' mental health issues (like my own Aspergers Syndrome). It's almost as if it's taken as a given in England that some people are just a little odd.

[Kestra15]

I think you mean for mental ILLNESS to be recognised...

Nope, I did mean mental health and not illness - it took a while for humanity to recognise that your mental well-being is just as important as your physical well-being, and that in caring for someone you have to consider not just physical needs but also their mental/emotional/spiritual well-being. And being in poor health is not necessarily an illness, both physically and mentally.

Edited November 16, 2012 by Kestra15

[Fuzzbucket]

Oh, I dunno. The stereotype of the 'Great British Eccentric' has actually led to a lot less stigma over the years for people with relatively 'minor' mental health issues (like my own Aspergers Syndrome). It's almost as if it's taken as a given in England that some people are just a little odd.

I wish.

 

I have seen children being ENCOURAGED to make fun of a homeless mentally ill guy who rambles in a monotone while wandering around town.

 

I have seen kids taunt other kids with "your mummy's a nutter" and when I took it up with their parents, was just told "Kids will be kids, and anyway, we don't want them around her, because she's like - mad." (she's bipolar, and totally non flagrant, but was in hospital for two weeks while they stabilised her meds, so she got labelled as mad, see....)

 

There's lots more.

 

English eccentricity - sure. And I can kind of see Aspergers being seen that way - not least because of a few high profile court cases - and The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night Time helped there, too Made it possible for it to be seen as kind of cute !!!!

 

But with actual mental illness - even relatively minor - you get pilloried. I know quite a few of my FRIENDS avoided me till I was effectively "cured" - I was really hurt by that. The most flagrant thing I did in public was to break down and weep at work; even in private, the worst was dressing for work one day and then simply being unable to move. And someone actually asked me when I was going to commit suicide. They meant it as a kind enquiry - I THINK - but sheesh... Charming !

 

@ Kestra - OK - I see what you mean.

Edited November 16, 2012 by fuzzbucket

[Kestra15]

@ Kestra - OK - I see what you mean.

:~)

 

See, I would argue that my depression does not mean I suffer from a mental illness, although it is a factor of my mental health. In the same way that having something like Asperger's isn't always seen as a mental illness by those who have it, or work closely with those who have it. In the same way that being physically crippled isn't an illness, it is just a state of physical health, there are mental health conditions that do not make you 'ill' but do mean your mental health is affected.

[Fuzzbucket]

:~)

 

See, I would argue that my depression does not mean I suffer from a mental illness, although it is a factor of my mental health. In the same way that having something like Asperger's isn't always seen as a mental illness by those who have it, or work closely with those who have it. In the same way that being physically crippled isn't an illness, it is just a state of physical health, there are mental health conditions that do not make you 'ill' but do mean your mental health is affected.

 

Well, I would argue that when my depression - a life long ISSUE, but till then manageable with occasional meds - became TOTALLY incapacitating and I came within a hair's breadth of being sectioned (my GP told me that afterwards; if I'd not agreed to be admitted the day I was admitted, she was calling for a section...) I certainly WAS ill !

 

AS an aside - that was the year they announced that people with mental health problems should be called "clients" because that would take away the STIGMA... We were livid. As we said - how is that not stigmatising when people with "real" illnesses are patients - we are as genuinely ill as they are. Now, one requirement in the bin is regular ward meetings, so that you INTERACT with other PATIENTS (!) and show that you are Taking Responsibility For Yourself and the rest. If you don't show up, you are labelled as uncooperative... ANYWAY - the very next meeting we took a vote and announced that henceforth we wished to be identified as nutters in the bin. (No, it wasn't actually my idea, but I thought it was great !) The staff were - not happy - but - we'd ticked all the boxes.

[TikindiDragon]

I wish.

 

I have seen children being ENCOURAGED to make fun of a homeless mentally ill guy who rambles in a monotone while wandering around town.

 

I have seen kids taunt other kids with "your mummy's a nutter" and when I took it up with their parents, was just told "Kids will be kids, and anyway, we don't want them around her, because she's like - mad." (she's bipolar, and totally non flagrant, but was in hospital for two weeks while they stabilised her meds, so she got labelled as mad, see....)

 

There's lots more.

 

English eccentricity - sure. And I can kind of see Aspergers being seen that way - not least because of a few high profile court cases - and The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night Time helped there, too Made it possible for it to be seen as kind of cute !!!!

 

But with actual mental illness - even relatively minor - you get pilloried. I know quite a few of my FRIENDS avoided me till I was effectively "cured" - I was really hurt by that. The most flagrant thing I did in public was to break down and weep at work; even in private, the worst was dressing for work one day and then simply being unable to move. And someone actually asked me when I was going to commit suicide. They meant it as a kind enquiry - I THINK - but sheesh... Charming !

 

@ Kestra - OK - I see what you mean.

Funny the difference in experiences. (Although, given my memory, most of the stuff I do recall is from the early 90's onwards. I know you'll have had experiences that pre-date mine and give a much clearer picture of the development of attitudes to mental health).

 

I've actually had a total meltdown in the supermarket my partner works in. The only trigger was my poor sense of timekeeping (so nothing about the supermarket as such) but I did end up hunched in a corner and totally unable to speak. One of the customer assitants came over to see what was wrong, I showed her my 'autism alert' card, and she fetched another member of staff - who recognised me and went to get my other half. After quite such an obvious, middle of his work environment, meltdown it's pretty much a given that all his colleagues know about my 'issues'... and yet it's noteable that I'm actually the only 'partner' regularly invited when they have their work outings. Not only invited, but actively welcomed. I've found that, despite the middle-of-shop meltdown, I'm still treated the same. If anyone is going to mention, or crack a joke about, my Aspergers it's far more likely to be myself or my partner than anyone else.

 

I've had a couple of pretty big meltdowns at my work, too. At roadshows where there's a huge number of people gathered together (for 'company indoctrination' as we like to call it ). The first one came as a suprise to the vast majority of my colleage (I've been diagnosed since starting in my current employment), but not one of them has actually treated me any differently since that incident. Even when they happen I've only had people being concerned about how they can help me prevent them (as it's quite obvious it's something *I* want to avoid as much as anyone else). I've been signed off with stress & depression at one point too. Which, again, never caused any of my colleagues to treat me any differently. (Infact I actually got a lot of them being very supportive, as the situation was quite bad for all of us at that point. Turned out over half my team were under treatment for some sort of stress/depression).

[~Kat~]

Rick Perry Will Not Implement Texas Insurance Exchange Under Obamacare

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/15/r...26pLid%3D235196

[Kestra15]

:~)

 

See, I would argue that my depression does not mean I suffer from a mental illness, although it is a factor of my mental health. In the same way that having something like Asperger's isn't always seen as a mental illness by those who have it, or work closely with those who have it. In the same way that being physically crippled isn't an illness, it is just a state of physical health, there are mental health conditions that do not make you 'ill' but do mean your mental health is affected.

I guess I should have been a bit more specific *oops!*

 

Depression can be a mental illness, but it is entirely dependent on the person and the level of depression. Your stories are like many others, whose depression does cause a significant impediment to their daily living, to their overall health, to their physical, emotional, spiritual, psychological and social well-being, and it would not be wrong to say it is an illness. But for others it doesn't to such an extent.

 

I do not feel my own depression is an illness, although it has had an impact on my daily living. When it was worse I did find I was more lethargic and bitter, that I did far less, did not have the energy to do more than the most basic of required tasks - do the housework, go to work, plan lessons, occasionally go on duty. But I have yet to feel it is an illness as I have not suffered to the extent that others have. That's not to say that depression is not an illness, but my depression is not an illness. It is, however, a sign of my poor mental health.

 

Others do have crippling depression that they would call an illness. Some have it to a lesser extent than me and call it an illness as well, and that's fine. It is in part a personal definition as to whether you feel you are ill, or simply not at peak health.

 

I hope that makes more sense, and I apologise to you both if you feel that I was belittling your experiences.

[Fuzzbucket]

I guess I should have been a bit more specific *oops!*

 

Depression can be a mental illness, but it is entirely dependent on the person and the level of depression. Your stories are like many others, whose depression does cause a significant impediment to their daily living, to their overall health, to their physical, emotional, spiritual, psychological and social well-being, and it would not be wrong to say it is an illness. But for others it doesn't to such an extent.

 

I do not feel my own depression is an illness, although it has had an impact on my daily living. When it was worse I did find I was more lethargic and bitter, that I did far less, did not have the energy to do more than the most basic of required tasks - do the housework, go to work, plan lessons, occasionally go on duty. But I have yet to feel it is an illness as I have not suffered to the extent that others have. That's not to say that depression is not an illness, but my depression is not an illness. It is, however, a sign of my poor mental health.

 

Others do have crippling depression that they would call an illness. Some have it to a lesser extent than me and call it an illness as well, and that's fine. It is in part a personal definition as to whether you feel you are ill, or simply not at peak health.

 

I hope that makes more sense, and I apologise to you both if you feel that I was belittling your experiences.

You didn't belittle me at all. (Try harder )

 

This was a cheerful discussion about the point at which depression (a life long issue for me, but I am not "ill" whenever I am depressed - you are so right there !) becomes "illness" as such - I guess MAYBE when it requires "treatment" ? Then again - we have in the family a bi-polar person. On meds for life, clearly - but I guess no, I wouldn't say ill as such. Just as I wouldn't say someone on insulin for diabetes was ill.

 

I WOULD probably say I do have mental health problems - because to deny my life long battle with depression (FAR less difficult since being in the bin; I recommend that most highly !) would possibly mean someone else that bit worse off wouldn't seek help.

 

The more "ordinary people" don't admit to these things, the more other ordinary people who think they will be locked up if they ask for help will struggle on.

 

I am a depressive and "proud of it " ? No, not that - but - see what I mean ?

[~Kat~]

Obama Healthcare Reform: Five Republican Governors Reject State Run Health Markets

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/17/o...26pLid%3D235819

[ShinyTomato]

Obama Healthcare Reform: Five Republican Governors Reject State Run Health Markets

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/17/o...26pLid%3D235819

Of course, some of these are the worst-off in leaving people uninsured, and Texas in particular, having nearly run planned parenthood out of the state, leaving women almost nowhere that offers mammograms, HPV vaccines and STD screenings at low or no cost, without insurance.

[StormWizard212]

Mental health is general considered to be 20 - 30 years behind 'physical' medicine world-wide, due to how long it has taken for mental health to actually be recognised.

But the fact that it is recognised today means that governments around the world should be doing what they can to get their mental health treatment up to par with physical health. The fact that they're not putting more resources into making the system better is something that really frustrates me. It is such an important part of society and it needs far more focus than the government is willing to give it. It makes me sad that they don't take it more seriously.

 

Edit: Just re-read that and wanted to add that I'm not disagreeing with you. I definitely agree. And I think it's shocking that that's the case.

Edited November 18, 2012 by StormWizard212

[Fuzzbucket]

Of course, some of these are the worst-off in leaving people uninsured, and Texas in particular, having nearly run planned parenthood out of the state, leaving women almost nowhere that offers mammograms, HPV vaccines and STD screenings at low or no cost, without insurance.

Quite. What nasty governors these states have. POor them. Oh - what was that about no abortions for people who don't use protection ? Where will they be if they try to GET protection, without planned parenthood, which supplies so much of that ?

[Kestra15]

But the fact that it is recognised today means that governments around the world should be doing what they can to get their mental health treatment up to par with physical health. The fact that they're not putting more resources into making the system better is something that really frustrates me. It is such an important part of society and it needs far more focus than the government is willing to give it. It makes me sad that they don't take it more seriously.

 

Edit: Just re-read that and wanted to add that I'm not disagreeing with you. I definitely agree. And I think it's shocking that that's the case.

Sadly it's not as easy as a click of the fingers that they catch up - research and progress can only move so fast. There is a *lot* of time and effort going into mental health in order to catch up, but the basic fact is that it will remain behind physical health for a long time to come.

[~Kat~]

Mary Fallin, Oklahoma Governor, Rejects Medicaid Expansion, Health Insurance Exchanges

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/19/m...26pLid%3D236410

 

The Supreme Court has said that states could opt out of the expansion.

[prairiecrow]

Mary Fallin, Oklahoma Governor, Rejects Medicaid Expansion, Health Insurance Exchanges

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/19/m...26pLid%3D236410

 

The Supreme Court has said that states could opt out of the expansion.

That doesn't make it practically sound or ethically justifiable.

 

In my opinion, if you're willing to let people suffer and die when it's within your power to provide help for them, that's about as morally dodgy as it gets. Didn't Jesus say something about helping the poor and the sick? And yet I see many Christians opposing measures that would ensure exactly that, and even going out of their way to deprive people who need it of health care options that already exist (see: Planned Parenthood).

[Fuzzbucket]

That doesn't make it practically sound or ethically justifiable.

 

In my opinion, if you're willing to let people suffer and die when it's within your power to provide help for them, that's about as morally dodgy as it gets. Didn't Jesus say something about helping the poor and the sick? And yet I see many Christians opposing measures that would ensure exactly that, and even going out of their way to deprive people who need it of health care options that already exist (see: Planned Parenthood).

^this^

 

Beautifully said.

[CrossingStar]

What I don't understand is that Christians say, 'love everyone' and then harm those who are 'different.' It's so hypocritical! Just a few days ago someone came up to me and asked, point blank, 'Are you gay? I hate you gay people! How can a girl love another girl? So disgusting! God didn't make girls so that they could love other girls!'

 

I just gaped at her. I was absolutely stunned by the complete insensitivity.

 

That a politician would support this kind of view and ban 'strange' or 'bad' people from the medical care they need and deserve is completely wrong.

[Obscure_Trash]

Keep in mind that is only some Christians, not all. ^^

Sorry that happened, though. 3=

 

~

 

I think my ideal health care would be what other developed countries have, which is more along the lines of single-payer Medicare for all rather than Obamacare. I do think Obamacare is a step in the right direction, but it doesn't really offer protection against insurance companies that have no limit on fees.

Edited November 21, 2012 by SockPuppet Strangler

[CrossingStar]

Keep in mind that is only some Christians, not all. ^^

Sorry that happened, though. 3=

 

I know not all Christians do it. I was just being general about it.

[Fuzzbucket]

Keep in mind that is only some Christians, not all. ^^

Sorry that happened, though. 3=

 

~

 

I think my ideal health care would be what other developed countries have, which is more along the lines of single-payer Medicare for all rather than Obamacare. I do think Obamacare is a step in the right direction, but it doesn't really offer protection against insurance companies that have no limit on fees.

That's the point. We (you...!) need to get rid of the private company insurance factor. Because their main interest is not to make sure you get the care you need, but to deliver bonuses for their bosses and dividends for their shareholders.

[StormWizard212]

Sadly it's not as easy as a click of the fingers that they catch up - research and progress can only move so fast. There is a *lot* of time and effort going into mental health in order to catch up, but the basic fact is that it will remain behind physical health for a long time to come.

But the thing is, from where I'm sitting, it doesn't look like there is much effort going into mental health here in Australia. The issue I talked about a couple of pages ago (about the government only finding ten psychologist appointments annually) has been decreased this year from last year's twelve. So from the looks of things, we're not progressing, but rather going backwards. Once a month isn't anywhere near enough funding's worth of appointments in my opinion, but to then cut it back even more? I'd like to see what they're actually doing, because it's certainly not benefiting anyone that I know.

[Syaoransbear]

Here in Canada, we get nothing for mental health. Any appointments you make with a mental health practitioner come out of your own pocket unless you have insurance. We're no better than the US when it comes to mental health.

 

I've always been extremely annoyed about how our health care leaves out eye care, dental care, and mental health care.

Edited November 21, 2012 by Syaoransbear

[Fuzzbucket]

Here in Canada, we get nothing for mental health. Any appointments you make with a mental health practitioner come out of your own pocket unless you have insurance. We're no better than the US when it comes to mental health.

 

I've always been extremely annoyed about how our health care leaves out eye care, dental care, and mental health care.

??

 

WE seem to get it in Ontario - I've not used it, but a friend is having psychiatry and psychology right now.

 

I agree about the teeth and eyes though. we USED to get free eye tests, at least. That said - the same is true in the UK.

[Syaoransbear]

??

 

WE seem to get it in Ontario - I've not used it, but a friend is having psychiatry and psychology right now.

Are you sure it isn't coming out of insurance? Because it's definitely not covered here in Saskatchewan.

 

EDIT: I'm taking a university class right now so I can see their counselor for free just because the class is cheaper than seeing one independently :/.

Edited November 21, 2012 by Syaoransbear