Prostitution

[Rosedamai]

So, just a few thoughts, and let's try to keep this PG as possible.

 

Some questions for debate-

 

1. Is it legal in your country/state/province?

 

2. If it is illegal, is that really enforced or is it operating in the black market?

 

3. What are your personal perceptions and/or public perceptions of sex workers?

 

4. Should they be allowed to enjoy the full rights as any other laborer?

 

For me, personally, my country has made prostitution illegal, but it's not really enforced-it's actually quite lax and the authorities turn a blind eye to it. I believe that prostitution should be legalized, as there are too many people suffering in the grey zone of legalities, with no access to proper health care, with constant threats of violence, slave contracts, etc. However, the public usually sees them as making quick money and there's a lot of sl** shaming, which I find sad. And because of this, it's mostly gone under the black market (but everyone knows it's there!), so lots of human rights violations happening, even sex trafficking and sexual slavery, to hear some tell of it.

[brairtrainer]

I know its illegal where I live, and I don't know how its enforced but honestly I don't have a problem with it being illegal more so with how the law is enforced. Right now, especially with the public finally becoming aware of human trafficking most people who are being forced into this are being treated as criminals and not the victims they are.

 

Really those are my only problems with prostitution. If we as a society want to get rid of it thats fine just be sure to treat the real criminals as criminals and the victims as victims of a crime and let them get back on their feet.

 

Oh wait I do have one more problem, when dealing with a victim who was or is in this country illegally and they can''t really return to their home country (women shamed if they've been raped, no where to go, war zone etc.) then get them in the process for a green card. Really if a woman is in danger if she goes home because she was forced into sex then she needs a safe place to get herself back together.

[little lost dragon]

Prostitution is illegal over here and human trafficking has been seen and the law has come down on the people doing so here in Canada. At least from what I hear. I have yet to hear how such was not dealt with. The kids in some cases are returned home if they got one to return to. Women..... I haven't really heard where they go though.

 

For me Prostitution is a out right no. It does not encourage men to be real men or respect women, it only further sells women out more so that there nothing but items to make money off of. We should not be making money off of something like that. Women should not be come money generators. Plus Prostitution takes advantage of them as well. And we already have issues of that world wide last I heard.

 

All in all I don't want it to be legalized. All it does is further issues that are already bad in today's world.

 

Though on the note of women who are rescued from such, I think they should be allowed to start a new life if they wish in the country they where rescued in. I would say in any country but the world does not work like that. But if they got no where to go after being rescued..... yeah they should be allowed to start over where they are.

[Princess Artemis]

It's illegal in California, but not in parts of Nevada. In Nevada, it's decided county by county. I've not heard Nevada having an issue with it--there are male and female prostitutes there and some well-known brothels.

 

My own personal take is that prostitution should never be illegal (criminalized would be a better word) but pimping should be eradicated with extreme prejudice. I've heard some terrible stories about madams, and then some not-so-bad-at-all-stories, so I'm a bit unsure about where they would fall. Likely, if prostitution were a perfectly legal act but pimping was not, a lot of the crime associated would go down simply because the prostitutes wouldn't feel so in danger if they reported violent crimes committed against them and they'd get some help taking care of it. Raping a prostitute is still rape, y'all. Not paying a prostitute after services rendered is really low in the kinds of theft one can practice and people who commit that sort of crime should have the book thrown so hard at them it dents their skulls.

 

It would be nice if prostitution didn't exist, but it's known as the world's oldest profession for a reason. No one is going to make it go away, so best to make the actually criminal parts illegal and leave the moralizing outside the law. Just because something is legal doesn't mean one has to partake nor that everyone suddenly will. It doesn't even make something OK, moral, right, just, fair, etc., it just makes it not criminal, something we have decided we will not spend our money and time throwing people into prison over.

 

ETA: ALSO! Even though I'd like to see it less criminalized, I do not want to ever see it made into an official profession with tax records and IRS statements and 1099s and whatnot. That way lies madness.

Edited June 29, 2012 by Princess Artemis

[Rosedamai]

I don't know, I think that my stance on legalization stems from the fact that it IS illegal in my country, but it's not actively enforced, so people know that sex workers exist and they work in horrible conditions, but they don't really care and even if they do they can't do anything for them because they're supposedly nonexistent. This, as I said, led to the pimps taking all their money, using violence, and so on, with no power for the actual sex workers. Under this situation, f you're a sex worker and someone rapes you or beats you, you can't really report that to the police, because you're not supposed to exist. It's a bit of a vicious cycle, I think. If it was legalized and such, I think that at least the workers would be able to gain SOME power, as they'd be able to form groups and such with which to protect themselves.

[Zovesta]

I came in here to say pretty much EXACTLY what Princess Artemis said, but oh well. =( It is illegal where I'm at as well, I'm pretty sure.

[MysticTiger]

I don't care if it's legal or not, I don't like it, plain and simple. I could never understand how someone could sell their body like that. I'm not judging them for it, I just don't understand it. Much like how I don't understand why people feel the need to get high on drugs or get drunk on alcohol. I personally can't emotionally try to comprehend how people could think that prostitution is legit profession and one where the pros outweigh the cons. Again, much like how I feel about drug dealers.

 

I know it's there, I know it won't go away. But, I don't want to see it. It's bad enough having panhandlers jump my car when I go to Detroit. I don't think I could handle prostitutes.

 

Although, there is a larger part of this business that needs to stop. And that's the forced prostitution. Just a week ago, they busted a child prostitution ring in my state. That's disgusting. Being a prostitute is one thing, being a sex slave is a completely different subject. And, unfortunately, a lot of the prostitutes out there are actually sex slaves. That's just horrible. And pimping people out is right there with it. Just, no. Those need to be illegalized.

[AngelicDemise]

IMO I'm not sure this is an appropriate topic to be on this forum.. We have very young members here, and I'm not sure if they should be seeing this in the general discussions..

[Rosedamai]

IMO I'm not sure this is an appropriate topic to be on this forum.. We have very young members here, and I'm not sure if they should be seeing this in the general discussions..

Well we're not discussing, say, one's experience with prostitutes or sth, we're focused on the legalization part. If you think it's too much, tell a mod and they will decide.

[AngelicDemise]

No, no.

 

I don't mind it, I was just worrying about the younger ones. If it doesn't affect them in any way, i don't really care.

 

And I understand you're not speaking of experiences. I wasn't sure if it would lead to that though..

[WonderBubbles]

It is legal here in Australia, but only in brothels. o-o I'd assume that would be to keep the people safer...? I don't know all too much about it. x3 They should be allowed full rights, and it's really not my place to decide whether or not prostitution itself should happen, but... it's been going on forever. Ever since... well, Iunno, Ancient Greek and Egypt? Probably before then, too. x3

I'd agree with the consensual side of it. But the forced...? No. Just... no. o-o; Those poor people... :c

[tyto_alba]

I think people should be able to just about anything with their bodies that they want. If a person wants to sell their body to make money, that's not any of my business. Frankly, I don't think it's anyone's business but the person selling and whoever's buying.

 

((Adding that this is my opinion of consensual prostitution. Human trafficking is a horrid, horrid thing.))

[angelicdragonpuppy]

I already have a very low opinion of people who sleep with multiple people without pay. My opinion of people who do so for pay is even lower. Sex should be something intimate and special and treasured, not a product. And my opinion of those who BUY such a service is lower still.

 

Forced prostitution is one of the saddest things in the world. Anyone caught forcing others into it should face life in prison... if not worse. Life in prison is still too good for those who would sell children's bodies. :l

[sunsteps88]

I don't care if it's legal or not, I don't like it, plain and simple. I could never understand how someone could sell their body like that. I'm not judging them for it, I just don't understand it. Much like how I don't understand why people feel the need to get high on drugs or get drunk on alcohol. I personally can't emotionally try to comprehend how people could think that prostitution is legit profession and one where the pros outweigh the cons. Again, much like how I feel about drug dealers.

 

I know it's there, I know it won't go away. But, I don't want to see it. It's bad enough having panhandlers jump my car when I go to Detroit. I don't think I could handle prostitutes.

 

Although, there is a larger part of this business that needs to stop. And that's the forced prostitution. Just a week ago, they busted a child prostitution ring in my state. That's disgusting. Being a prostitute is one thing, being a sex slave is a completely different subject. And, unfortunately, a lot of the prostitutes out there are actually sex slaves. That's just horrible. And pimping people out is right there with it. Just, no. Those need to be illegalized.

I completely agree with this. I dont have much to say on the topic....I dislike it pretty strongly, and think its wrong. Though forced is a seperate, worse thing. *Completely agree with the quoted poster*

 

EDIT: I also agree with Little Lost Dragon -- very nice points made by both posters. I'm glad there's males out there (or anyone, really) who understand some things effecting genders and all...

Edited June 30, 2012 by sunsteps88

[Plant]

I...don't really know what to say about prostitution. Something in me tells me it's wrong, but what happens when you've run out of choices when it comes to a job? I imagine selling your body for intercourse is - I dunno - pricey? When someone waves a wad of cash in front of your face saying, "You get all this money if you sleep with people," it's kind of hard to resist, especially when nobody else is hiring. I would hope nobody would outright say "yes" at said proposition, as the stakes are pretty high...I'm kind of on the fence about prostitution. I think it's morally wrong, but if you know what you're getting yourself into and take the necessary precautions...

 

Forced prostitution, however, is something I do not promote, nor will I ever.

[DarkEternity]

1. Is it legal in your country/state/province?

I don't know and I don't care.

 

 

 

2. If it is illegal, is that really enforced or is it operating in the black market?

No clue. And if it does, who really cares?

 

 

 

3. What are your personal perceptions and/or public perceptions of sex workers?

 

Think prostitution is gross? Then perhaps you should be considering how gross sex is in itself (lol). Whether for money or for love or for entertainment, it's still the same thing in my eyes, no matter what the motivation or intention is.

 

I find it amusing that people like to take the moral high ground in this issue.

 

It really it is no different from any other type of work. And if you were put into that kind of situation due to economic stresses or poor living conditions or lacking any other choices, well I'd be thinking that you'd be selling your body as well. The only real thing that is concerning is the transmission of STIs and STDs, and hence contraception should be utilised.

 

As such, people concerned about prostitution should really consider becoming concerned about other more worthy issues such as world poverty, which are the core reasons why prostitution occurs. After all, it's not harming the rest of us. Really, when social evils like smoking and gambling are killing people, why all the fuss over something which is really quite minor in the big picture? There's really no point going 'oh prostitution is gross', if we're not addressing the core issues of poverty, lack of jobs, etc.

 

As long as people exercise contraception, I really couldn't care less.

 

 

 

 

4. Should they be allowed to enjoy the full rights as any other labourer?

 

Since these are the labour rights suggested:

- Everyone has the right to work, to free choice of employment, to just and favorable conditions of work and to protection against unemployment.

- Everyone, without any discrimination, has the right to equal pay for equal work.

- Everyone who works has the right to just and favorable remuneration ensuring for himself and his family an existence worthy of human dignity, and supplemented, if necessary, by other means of social protection.

- Everyone has the right to form and to join trade unions for the protection of his interests

- Everyone has the right to rest and leisure, including reasonable limitation of working hours and periodic holidays with pay.

 

Seems pretty reasonable to allow sex workers access to these basic human fundamental rights, don't you think? After all, I bet they pay taxes too like any other good citizen. As long as they're not being exploited, sex workers are more respectable than casino workers, people in drug industries such as tobacco/alcohol and people manufacturing weapons. They're not killing anyone and they're not harming anyone so long as contraception is exercised, so why does prostitution honestly create such a massive fuss over nothing?

 

In essence,

Forced prostitution = big NO.

Consensual prostitution = Ok.

 

And anyway, the so-called 'sacred' institution of marriage seems historically centred around consolidating money/property, anyway (I'm looking at you primogeniture and laws of entail). How many times do we hear in the news that so and so married and divorced and one person's after the other person's money? How is that any different from prostitution? Don't even let me get started on arranged marriages. And in a world where 'love' is based on superficial values like appearances and broad stereotypes of beauty anyway... Well that's amusing.

 

And as for itemisation, I think you should probably be looking at the media which is enforcing stereotypes of beauty and cosmetics among other ideas of women. Well, prostitution seems much more like survival. On the other hand, businesses actually exploiting women to make cash out of the insecurity of females through advertising unnecessary and potentially chemically dangerous products. True itemisation at its purest.

 

(anyway, sex for the purpose of love? Isn't it supposed to be for procreation and maybe then love? Dx You know, the actual biological purpose it was meant to have. Otherwise we'd be dividing in half like good little bacteria, except then we wouldn't have enough genetic variety.)

Edited June 30, 2012 by DarkEternity

[hazeh]

I honestly don't care. Forced prostitution, of course not, but willing? So? It's their bodies. I have no right to judge or hold someone to my moral standards for what they do to their own body. I have no right to get in the way of what could be a line of work for someone. I think that as long as they are comfortable with themselves and take care of themselves respectfully, then go for it. I don't think there is anything demeaning about it at all. To me, there are different forms of sex, not just one "this is what its supposed to be and just this raaaahhh".

[KageSora]

1. It's illegal where I live.

 

2. Not sure how strictly enforced it is, I'm a bit clueless about those kinds of things.

 

3. Personally, I think they're still people no matter their job. I personally find prostitution distasteful, but that just means I won't hire one or go into the work unless I'm left with no choice myself.

 

4. This'll be a bit of a longer answer. In short, yes.

 

 

I know prostitution exists and it won't go away. Therefore, I believe it should be made legal but only in authorized institutions. All workers must be able to give consent and must willingly do so. Forced prostitution should always remain illegal.

 

That said, I feel that not only should legalized institutions require permits but the workers must also either carry a permit on them to prove they're legal or be able to provide a copy of their permit/have some means of checking they're with a legal institution within a reasonable amount of time.

 

 

Additionally, all sex workers should be required to pass regular drug tests, and should be provided with regular checkups and STD testing.

 

 

I feel like, since it will happen anyway, they should be provided with a safe, clean environment in which to do their work.

 

Birth control should be provided and required, at least two forms for those who are engaged with clients of the opposite sex.

 

They should be provided with healthcare, I think, because if they're sick it's bad for not only them but the customers.

 

Security at such institutions would be required to handle customers who became too rough and/or disrespectful.

 

Ideally I'd want clients to have to prove they're STD-free, but I dunno how feasible that would be.

 

Also, unsure of how a pregnancy resulting from such work should be handled...

 

 

 

Also, this should go for both male and female sex workers. People seem to often cry that it's degrading to women, but they forget that there are men who are forced into prostitution, too. Both should be able to practice their work in a safe environment.

 

 

They could perhaps rent space from an authorized institution or they could be hired by an institution and are paid a salary or something.

 

I just feel like if anybody was permitted to do it out of their own home/rent a room at a hotel/whatever, it'd be much harder to regulate and to tell which were legal and which were forced into it and to keep it safe for both clients and workers from things like people getting too rough or STDs and such...

[7Deadly$ins]

No, no.

 

I don't mind it, I was just worrying about the younger ones. If it doesn't affect them in any way, i don't really care.

 

And I understand you're not speaking of experiences. I wasn't sure if it would lead to that though..

We are on a PG-13 forum. If this is too much for the children, perhaps they should find a different forum.

[Bardess]

It's legal in Germany and I'm fine with that.

 

I'm not really a supporter of prostituion, mind you, and I really wish it wouldn't be there and that no woman had to steep so low as to sell her own body...

 

...but, as PrincessArtemis says, it's the oldest profession for a reason.

And as long as men are willing to pay for it, it won't - simply won't go away, because it's an easy way to earn money for the desperate and a huge money source for the criminally minded.

 

Legalising it is far from perfect, but it gives protection for the women - and the few men - and makes it possible for them to receive medical care and have a safety of a sort, as they can report and sue those who take advantage of them, i.e. rape them and/or don't pay or something, without having to worry about what happens to them if they do.

 

Never mind those who provide these kind of services - it's those who take them and profit from them in the background that are the real problem, so being a prostitute should never have legal consequences.

 

Although it is legal here, from time to time you read in the newspaper that some owner of a brothel was fined or even imprisoned for human trafficking or some other sort of crime.

Of course it isn't nice to read about that sort of thing, but I'd rather have prostitution in daylight - so to say - where people can see it and control it than somewhere where it would be even harder to control.

 

[quupee]

Making it illegal doesn't stop it. I think it should be made legal, because the people who do it probably have enough issues already.

I have a lot of issues with prositution, though. For one, it's such a horrible way to earn money that only those with REAL issues tend to do it. Addicts desperate for money, people who are homeless... it's a risky profession and they know it. A lot of people do not approve of it and it's going to affect their lives for a LONG time. How would you feel if you're boyfriend/girlfriend used to sell themselves? How would you feel if your neighbours knew this?

I know that's really pointing out the obvious, but y'know.

[Mommy_Kitty]

I don't care if it's legal or not, I don't like it, plain and simple. I could never understand how someone could sell their body like that. I'm not judging them for it, I just don't understand it. I personally can't emotionally try to comprehend how people could think that prostitution is legit profession and one where the pros outweigh the cons.

 

In this modern world where we live all things turn around money and people do all to get theyr hands on as much money as posible, and diferent people have diferent skills, and sadly some women are so deep in the dirt that they can only sell theyr body to try to get up from the bottom. Most of de world does not say bad things to women that play in adoult movies, but when prostitution in is asking they say it is a bad thing, but the only diference is that one does it in secrecy and others do it on cam and earn a lot more money. Forced prostiotuion shuld be hunted down and all that are so called pimps shuld be sent to jail. But as for prostitution out of free will it shuld be legalized all around the world, but with strict regulations so that they wuld be under control all the time, all the women or men wuld be tested for wariouse sicknesses, they wuld need to work in brothels, so prostitution wuld be mowed from streets into safe buildings where it wuld be posible to interupt if an old geezard wuld get out of line, all that wuld want to do it wuld need to get license to be able to sel theyr body, regular monthly doctor checkups for sicknesses, 4 times a year wisit to psihiatrics to see if they are doing it of theyr free will or if they are forced into it. Without a licence wuld still be ilegal and shuld be sent to jail.

 

And if you look deeper into modern society you see that 75% of girls are in a way prostitutes, but they dont sel themselfes for money, but other things they get from theyr boyfriends, sooner or later a girl gives her body to a boy but not becouse of pure love but becouse he bought her something preciouse like a golden ring, a botle of perfume or something diferent that is valuable. And same thing if true for older married women to, when man comes home with a wonderfull gift she gives in. Boys are even easyer to be bought that girls, mostly it is enough if they get something deliciouse for diner.

[Dr. Paine]

My opinions pretty much match DarkEternity's. I really see no problem with consensual prostitution (forcing anyone into that kind of work is just sick and wrong, just like any form of sexual/physical abuse), and I would like to see it legalized and regulated in order to keep both the workers and customers safe and healthy. At the end of the day, consensual sex is sex, whether it's for love, money, or just for fun. Just let everyone involved be able to stay as safe as possible.

Edited June 30, 2012 by Dr. Paine

[Rosedamai]

My opinions pretty much match DarkEternity's. I really see no problem with consensual prostitution (forcing anyone into that kind of work is just sick and wrong, just like any form of sexual/physical abuse), and I would like to see it legalized and regulated in order to keep both the workers and customers safe and healthy. At the end of the day, consensual sex is sex, whether it's for love, money, or just for fun. Just let everyone involved be able to stay as safe as possible.

Exactly my point.

 

And if you look deeper into modern society you see that 75% of girls are in a way prostitutes, but they dont sel themselfes for money, but other things they get from theyr boyfriends, sooner or later a girl gives her body to a boy but not becouse of pure love but becouse he bought her something preciouse like a golden ring, a botle of perfume or something diferent that is valuable. And same thing if true for older married women to, when man comes home with a wonderfull gift she gives in. Boys are even easyer to be bought that girls, mostly it is enough if they get something deliciouse for diner.

 

O_o.....I don't understand what you're talking about. You can't call people prostitutes for offering sex as a "payback" for sth nice that someone gave to you. Prostitution is a JOB.What you're describing is a form of reciprocating.

[~Kat~]

I do not feel Prostitution is right either.

 

But On The Flip Side

 

It is a job and it is a choice that only you can make yourself.

 

Hypothetically ... As a mother when my children were young and I could not get a job doing anything or it was war time, to feed my children if that is what it took, I would do it to feed my children, you bet I would have, thank goodness I have never had to. Sometimes in life events throw you into a path that is not always right.

 

As Dr Paine said ...My opinions pretty much match DarkEternity's. I really see no problem with consensual prostitution (forcing anyone into that kind of work is just sick and wrong, just like any form of sexual/physical abuse), and I would like to see it legalized and regulated in order to keep both the workers and customers safe and healthy. At the end of the day, consensual sex is sex, whether it's for love, money, or just for fun. Just let everyone involved be able to stay as safe as possible.

 

Dr Paine and DarkEternity have made some good points , does not always mean those who do this will stay safe and healthy.

 

Same thing with any of you that have boyfriends or girlfriends and you have multple partners, but do not get check ups or use condoms to stay safe. The only difference between you and prostitutes, you do not get PAID MONEY FOR IT.

 

Don''t forget, just because someone looks and smells clean does not mean they do not have a venereal disease.

 

The bad of it when you prostitute yourself and you are in this environment, you get low class people of all sorts, drug useage, sex slavery, beatings, murder and the rap sheet gets longer and longer with all the bad stuff that comes with this profession

 

As for the government, everyone skims off the top and do not claim all their earnings,

 

There again, if people woould go to church and read the bible and try to be better people and do the right thing, this world would not be in the shape it is today. Also, we need a better PRESIDENT that can run this country. CHANGE AND MORE CHANGE has run this country into the ground as far as jobs go and a lot of other things that is bull.

 

As far as liberals go that let anything stand and come out and it is ok, that is hurting our country and our people. When I was young, it was live and let live. If it did not involve me, who cared. As I got older, I saw the ERROR of my ways.