Jump to content
philpot123

Gun rights/control/ownership

Recommended Posts

...This current government has an F on gun control from the Brady Campaign. They've done more for gun rights than the last administration.

And yet as we draw closer to November, people are freaking out and driving ammo and gun prices up again... Ugh. People.

 

 

...

 

 

Good thing I already stocked up wink.gif

 

 

There's another reason I don't like Nevada. I used to live there as a kid, and honestly it was a scary place. I was in Henderson and all parts of Las Vegas, and there were so many sketchy people. Open gun laws like that honestly make me afraid to be out in public for very long in places such as that. Just because you don't see people freaking out doesn't mean they aren't- if I'd seen you with that gun on your hip, I'd break out in a cold sweat. There's no way to know who is carrying for protection and who is carrying for aggressive intent; open display, in my opinion, is a form of intimidation and I don't like it. I just don't understand the appeal to firearms. They're dangerous and I associate them heavily with fatal injuries moreso than I do any other weapon. I don't understand pulling that kind of thing on anyone, even a criminal. A knife or any other weapon is fine by me, but I don't think guns are the answer.

 

Even in our gun-friendly society, it's amazing how many people have a subconscious mindset of "only cops and bad guys have guns." It's not a bad thing, it's just a wrong thing. Do you think if someone was intending to commit a crime they would be toting their weapon of choice around on their hip for the world to see? I don't totally agree with open carrying in all situations, but the idea that "oh they could have bad intentions" is kinda silly. If someone is gonna rob a place, they don't draw attention to themselves by displaying their gun beforehand. Yes, it's a form of intimidation. It's directed towards anyone who would want to do something to that person. "Don't eff with me" kinda thing. Maybe that's wrong, maybe that's right, but it's still a right. No one has a right to be comfortable. I have a right to bear arms within my state's laws, and if Nevada allows open carry by golly I have the right to open carry.

 

I don't want to be any closer to a hostile than I have to be. A knife isn't suitable for that end.

 

Because cops are trusted to take part in protecting innocents, not harming them. They have to go through training and all that jazz first. For an average citizen, there's no telling what would happen with them and a firearm. I don't mind cops carrying guns because I believe they are supposed to- they are the people entrusted with the protection of citizens, not the other way around. Random folk? Not so much.

 

But you said more guns makes more danger, no matter who carries them...

 

There are certification courses required for handgun permits. Are they sufficient? HELL NO. More training is definitely beneficial. Again, I said this before, cops can't protect anyone. They typically arrive after the fact. Very rarely can a cop actually stop someone with violent intentions before violence happens. On the other hand, one law-abiding citizen with a handy little revolver in the waistband/purse could have stopped the VT shooting at 2 or 3, not dozens.

Edited by philpot123

Share this post


Link to post
Even in our gun-friendly society, it's amazing how many people have a subconscious mindset of "only cops and bad guys have guns." It's not a bad thing, it's just a wrong thing. Do you think if someone was intending to commit a crime they would be toting their weapon of choice around on their hip for the world to see? I don't totally agree with open carrying in all situations, but the idea that "oh they could have bad intentions" is kinda silly. If someone is gonna rob a place, they don't draw attention to themselves by displaying their gun beforehand. Yes, it's a form of intimidation. It's directed towards anyone who would want to do something to that person. "Don't eff with me" kinda thing. Maybe that's wrong, maybe that's right, but it's still a right. No one has a right to be comfortable. I have a right to bear arms within my state's laws, and if Nevada allows open carry by golly I have the right to open carry.

 

I don't want to be any closer to a hostile than I have to be. A knife isn't suitable for that end.

 

 

 

But you said more guns makes more danger, no matter who carries them...

 

There are certification courses required for handgun permits. Are they sufficient? HELL NO. More training is definitely beneficial. Again, I said this before, cops can't protect anyone. They typically arrive after the fact. Very rarely can a cop actually stop someone with violent intentions before violence happens. On the other hand, one law-abiding citizen with a handy little revolver in the waistband/purse could have stopped the VT shooting at 2 or 3, not dozens.

I just don't feel its right that everyone has to suddenly be so aggressive toward each other. Even if there are bad people out there, adding to all this danger is not the way I think people should be going about it.

 

Also, I said "unless its strictly hunting purposes or police force", so please don't try to twist my words around on me. I trust cops more than I trust a regular citizen, and that's my final stance.

Share this post


Link to post

Sorry for a slight derail from the debating but... Just a questions for anybody that reads this

 

Have any of you guys/gals ever gone shooting before? did you enjoy it? whats your favorite thing to shoot?

 

Me and my dad go shooting a lot, we have a nice range pretty close, I greatly enjoy it, it lowers stress so much being able to blow off steam leaving holes in targets, and personally, my favorite thing to shoot is a 20ga, my dad decided to skip the 410ga for me and put me right on the 20ga, I love annihilating targets, and the buckshot smells like smores cool.gif But when I want a more relaxed gun to shoot, I enjoy our scoped .22, I sometimes put it all the way down range for teh lulz

Edited by penguin_adu6oo

Share this post


Link to post

I just don't understand the appeal to firearms. They're dangerous and I associate them heavily with fatal injuries moreso than I do any other weapon. I don't understand pulling that kind of thing on anyone, even a criminal. A knife or any other weapon is fine by me, but I don't think guns are the answer.

 

Knives make decent offensive but very poor defensive weapons. Gun is practically the only thing many weakly-built people can use as a means of self-defense. Also, a knife-wound is just as likely to kill, and a heavy bash against the head with a hard object is perhaps even more likely to kill, beating in general can kill. Guns aren't more lethal per se than most other weapons. They're simply ranged.

 

- Have tried shooting a wide array of firearms, have a gun.

Share this post


Link to post

There's another reason I don't like Nevada. I used to live there as a kid, and honestly it was a scary place. I was in Henderson and all parts of Las Vegas, and there were so many sketchy people. Open gun laws like that honestly make me afraid to be out in public for very long in places such as that. Just because you don't see people freaking out doesn't mean they aren't- if I'd seen you with that gun on your hip, I'd break out in a cold sweat. There's no way to know who is carrying for protection and who is carrying for aggressive intent; open display, in my opinion, is a form of intimidation and I don't like it.

 

I just don't understand the appeal to firearms. They're dangerous and I associate them heavily with fatal injuries moreso than I do any other weapon. I don't understand pulling that kind of thing on anyone, even a criminal. A knife or any other weapon is fine by me, but I don't think guns are the answer.

 

 

 

Because cops are trusted to take part in protecting innocents, not harming them. They have to go through training and all that jazz first. For an average citizen, there's no telling what would happen with them and a firearm. I don't mind cops carrying guns because I believe they are supposed to- they are the people entrusted with the protection of citizens, not the other way around. Random folk? Not so much.

This. I automatically think someone carrying a gun is a shady person because I live in that type of neighborhood. (I live in a decent part, but there are bad parts a stone's throw away).

Edited by Ashes The Second

Share this post


Link to post

Sorry for a slight derail from the debating but... Just a questions for anybody that reads this

 

Have any of you guys/gals ever gone shooting before? did you enjoy it? whats your favorite thing to shoot?

 

Me and my dad go shooting a lot, we have a nice range pretty close, I greatly enjoy it, it lowers stress so much being able to blow off steam leaving holes in targets, and personally, my favorite thing to shoot is a 20ga, my dad decided to skip the 410ga for me and put me right on the 20ga, I love annihilating targets, and the buckshot smells like smores  cool.gif But when I want a more relaxed gun to shoot, I enjoy our scoped .22, I sometimes put it all the way down range for teh lulz

I own two .22 rifles, a Ruger single 6 .22, a Glock 23 .40cal, a Russian made semi-auto AK-47 chambered in 7.62x39, two .38 special revolvers, and a Mossberg 12ga. smile.gif shooting is pretty darn amazing. Great pastime.

 

 

I just don't feel its right that everyone has to suddenly be so aggressive toward each other. Even if there are bad people out there, adding to all this danger is not the way I think people should be going about it. Also, I said "unless its strictly hunting purposes or police force", so please don't try to twist my words around on me. I trust cops more than I trust a regular citizen, and that's my final stance.

 

There's nothing sudden about it... it's been around since our founding fathers.

 

"The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good"

 

-- George Washington

 

I wasn't trying to twist your words. Just taking what you said. I'm not trying to be offensive tongue.gif

Edited by philpot123

Share this post


Link to post
There's another reason I don't like Nevada. I used to live there as a kid, and honestly it was a scary place. I was in Henderson and all parts of Las Vegas, and there were so many sketchy people. Open gun laws like that honestly make me afraid to be out in public for very long in places such as that. Just because you don't see people freaking out doesn't mean they aren't- if I'd seen you with that gun on your hip, I'd break out in a cold sweat. There's no way to know who is carrying for protection and who is carrying for aggressive intent; open display, in my opinion, is a form of intimidation and I don't like it.

 

I just don't understand the appeal to firearms. They're dangerous and I associate them heavily with fatal injuries moreso than I do any other weapon. I don't understand pulling that kind of thing on anyone, even a criminal. A knife or any other weapon is fine by me, but I don't think guns are the answer.

 

 

 

Because cops are trusted to take part in protecting innocents, not harming them. They have to go through training and all that jazz first. For an average citizen, there's no telling what would happen with them and a firearm. I don't mind cops carrying guns because I believe they are supposed to- they are the people entrusted with the protection of citizens, not the other way around. Random folk? Not so much.

Scary because there were throngs of people open carrying, or scary because Las Vegas is...well, Las Vegas? I live in Reno - have for the majority of my life, and there is nothing scary about it.

 

And yes, it is a form of intimidation. It's a deterrent to those who might be inclined to do me or someone else harm. If you were a criminal and went into a store to rob it, wouldn't you think twice if you saw a few law abiding citizens with the means to protect themselves?

 

The police can't follow you around 24/7 to make sure nothing happens to you...I'd like the option of protecting myself if the need were to ever arise. I hope to God it never does - but like the OP said, it's like insurance.

Share this post


Link to post

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/06/...texas-park?lite

 

 

It's things like this that make me terrified of guns. If their assailants had had knives or a different weapon, those girls might have been able to get away or fight back before it was too late. Instead, guns can be used where ever, whenever, and the victim doesn't have a chance to defend themselves.

Share this post


Link to post
http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/06/...texas-park?lite

 

 

It's things like this that make me terrified of guns. If their assailants had had knives or a different weapon, those girls might have been able to get away or fight back before it was too late. Instead, guns can be used where ever, whenever, and the victim doesn't have a chance to defend themselves.

This is why most people hate guns, they should NOT have died, but now everybody is going to blame it on guns, one bad apple spoils the bunch, and I hate sounding like a jerk saying this but, it's if they had a gun, they might have been able to survive

Share this post


Link to post
http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/06/...texas-park?lite

 

 

It's things like this that make me terrified of guns. If their assailants had had knives or a different weapon, those girls might have been able to get away or fight back before it was too late. Instead, guns can be used where ever, whenever, and the victim doesn't have a chance to defend themselves.

That's a horrible thing...but if they had been beaten to death with a baseball bat, would you be afraid of those? Guns aren't evil - people are. The type of person who did this is what you should be afraid of - not the weapon he/she used. And if one of those girls had been armed...it's possible they would have had a decent chance at survival.

Share this post


Link to post

If their assailants had had knives or a different weapon, those girls might have been able to get away or fight back before it was too late. Instead, guns can be used where ever, whenever, and the victim doesn't have a chance to defend themselves.

As been pointed out: if the girls had guns, they might likewise have gotten away, or not been bothered in the first place. The potential of getting shot themselves is often enough to drive away the potential assailants.

 

Mind you, unless you notice the person early on and get a good head start, a knife is no more harmless thing than a gun. Plenty of people do not make fast runners because of their bodies alone.

 

 

(Edit: Reminds me of this baseball-bat murderer story... Attacked random walkers in a park, and kept people under terror just fine.)

Edited by Shienvien

Share this post


Link to post

I don't mind people having guns, as long as they don't pull it out and shoot everyone. In my state, you don't need a conceal carry licence. To me, that means you can go to the most public area here and have a gun. It doesn't matter if you are a volatile person and may shoot someone. You can just carry a gun around under your creepy guy trench coat.

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't think all people with a gun are creepy dudes. I have plenty of friends who have guns. I'm just afraid of people who are creepy.

Share this post


Link to post
As been pointed out: if the girls had guns, they might likewise have gotten away, or not been bothered in the first place. The potential of getting shot themselves is often enough to drive away the potential assailants.

 

Mind you, unless you notice the person early on and get a good head start, a knife is no more harmless thing than a gun. Plenty of people do not make fast runners because of their bodies alone.

 

 

(Edit: Reminds me of this baseball-bat murderer story... Attacked random walkers in a park, and kept people under terror just fine.)

On the other hand, how do you know their assailants weren't hiding in the bushes and shot the girls unsuspecting? It wouldn't have mattered if the girls had guns or not, and THAT is the issue I have with firearms. The victims may not have ANY chance to fight back at all, while at least with a close range weapon they might have.

I never said bats or other weapons were less deadly if used intentionally that way. But you can't fend off or run away from a ranged weapon.

Share this post


Link to post

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/06/...texas-park?lite

 

 

It's things like this that make me terrified of guns. If their assailants had had knives or a different weapon, those girls might have been able to get away or fight back before it was too late. Instead, guns can be used where ever, whenever, and the victim doesn't have a chance to defend themselves.

The attacker could have just as easily slit their throats. Would you be in favor of knife bans if that had happened? A gun is just a tool. An inanimate object with no morality, no opinions, no bent. It's the person in whose hand it sits that decides what happens with it. Also, again, stricter gun laws most likely would not have prevented that person from getting a gun. For all we know, the attacker obtained the gun illegally anyways. A good example is DC. You can't even LEGALLY purchase a gun anywhere in DC, but it has the highest gun murder rate in the nation. The laws won't change the people, and they certainly don't help them by disarming them, because there's no way to disarm the criminals.

 

There are other ranged weapons that are deadly as well. Crossbows are damn accurate at long distances. Ban?

 

Basically, what you're showing is that there are people who do bad things with guns, and the proposed answer to that problem is to take guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens, leave them in the hands of the criminals, and expect things to get better.

 

Edited by philpot123

Share this post


Link to post

I never said anything about bans on guns. EVER. I said I don't like the idea of all these people having guns. I said I would appreciate regulation on gun ownership, but I never advocated for banning guns altogether.

Share this post


Link to post

It wouldn't have mattered if the girls had guns or not.
A gunman has to have very good aim to ensure that the person he just shot would be unable to draw a gun of his/her own and return the fire before he can vanish. In other words, a gun on a person still remains a deterrent to a person who might want to shoot the one.

 

On the other hand, how do you know their assailants weren't hiding in the bushes and shot the girls unsuspecting? The victims may not have ANY chance to fight back at all, while at least with a close range weapon they might have.

A man with a knife might jump out of a bush or out from behind the nearest corner the same - the chance of fighting back successfully would have been just as bad. It would be about a quarter of a second before a person will even start to raise hands in front of oneself out of reflex, and more before any sort of conscious reaction. It's too slow. Self-defense is only useful if you know your assailant is there before you get a bat to the head or a knife between your ribs. Also, if you're not physically in a good shape, self-defense (or running) is not even a valid option.

 

I never said bats or other weapons were less deadly if used intentionally that way. But you can't fend off or run away from a ranged weapon.
If you notice it in time you can cover and run just fine (it is much harder to fatally hit a moving target). And, gunshot wounds usually do not drop people dead like in movies - it is quite possible you can get away and get aid even if you were hit.

Share this post


Link to post
On the other hand, how do you know their assailants weren't hiding in the bushes and shot the girls unsuspecting? It wouldn't have mattered if the girls had guns or not, and THAT is the issue I have with firearms. The victims may not have ANY chance to fight back at all, while at least with a close range weapon they might have.

I never said bats or other weapons were less deadly if used intentionally that way. But you can't fend off or run away from a ranged weapon.

Considering the victims, it was most likely a hate crime. The twisted S.O.B. who did this probably wasn't hiding in the bushes and sniping them off. Of course we may never know what actually happened, but I wouldn't be surprised if he/she didn't terrorize those poor girls first before shooting them.

 

Like it's been stated numerous times before - strict gun control laws only hurt law abiding citizens. Criminals can, do and will obtain guns. Like the old saying goes: If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post

My opinion: In the US, anyone of the age of majority without a criminal background who demonstrates they know how to handle a gun ought to be able to do so without much fuss beyond that. That's about as much regulation on the matter as I can tolerate (and that I can do so barely) as it seems like it's not too onerous a matter to go show the guy running the gun shop that you know how to open and load the chamber, etc., etc. in order to make the more sensitive amongst us feel better. It also gives the gun shop owner a chance to note if someone is really bad at handling guns, and to make a mental note not to sell to them.

 

One of these days, I need to take my .22 revolver down to be worked on a little...the person I bought it from is a gunsmith and he told me he could smooth it out and lighten the trigger some. Twelve pound trigger is hard to pull.

Share this post


Link to post

Americans don't need guns.

Share this post


Link to post

Americans don't need guns.

Are you serious? I'm from America and have no reason to shoot anyone. I will own one for self defense when I move out but not to just shoot some person walking down a side walk or anything else for that matter. Someone gets into my house I want some form of protection and a bat isn't enough anymore.

 

My dad has 4-5 of them. I would never want to take those from him as one was his fathers and technically one is "mine" but I don't use it. I shot it maybe 4-5 times total to try out one once but that was it. I would never dream of taking those from him. (Just asked him all the guns that he owns were his dads minus one I know he bought)

 

I do believe people should have a right to own one. I live in a family where almost every household (not sure if everyone of them does) has a gun in them. They don't run around with them, threaten to shoot anyone with them. They are mostly deer hunters, collect them or have them for protection.

 

 

That's a horrible thing...but if they had been beaten to death with a baseball bat, would you be afraid of those? Guns aren't evil - people are. The type of person who did this is what you should be afraid of - not the weapon he/she used. And if one of those girls had been armed...it's possible they would have had a decent chance at survival.

 

I agree with this 100%

 

Not everyone is some gun toting idiot who really doesn't need to own one. My father uses his mostly when we hear noises outside that aren't normal to scare it off. (Coyotes mostly and the occasional Raccoon as we have 2 cats that stay outside) Not a single one of my family that I know of takes a gun outside of the house unless it's deer season, to just practice or to scare off something that shouldn't be here.

Edited by demonicvampiregirl

Share this post


Link to post

The UK, Japan, etc. seem to be getting along just fine.

The UK, Japan, etc. seem to be getting along just fine.

American culture is different. Our nation has always been a gun culture. Changing that is the difficult part. And the question is why would you want to change it? Again, there's no practical way to disarm criminals, so it would be counterproductive. For every accidental gun death caused by a carrier someone shows, you can show five instances of self defense with a gun. Slight exaggeration maybe, but you get my point. Taking guns away wouldn't solve any problems, because you can't take them away from everyone without A. Violating the constitution, and B. Becoming like some of the worst men and governments in history.

 

I tried to find the older copy of this picture without America's current president in it, but no such luck. So I'll just have to say that, as has already been stated, President Obama has a fairly pro-gun record in office, so his picture being attached to this is a completely silly point. The others stand.

 

user posted image

 

 

My opinion: In the US, anyone of the age of majority without a criminal background who demonstrates they know how to handle a gun ought to be able to do so without much fuss beyond that.  That's about as much regulation on the matter as I can tolerate (and that I can do so barely) as it seems like it's not too onerous a matter to go show the guy running the gun shop that you know how to open and load the chamber, etc., etc. in order to make the more sensitive amongst us feel better.  It also gives the gun shop owner a chance to note if someone is really bad at handling guns, and to make a mental note not to sell to them.

 

One of these days, I need to take my .22 revolver down to be worked on a little...the person I bought it from is a gunsmith and he told me he could smooth it out and lighten the trigger some.  Twelve pound trigger is hard to pull.

Gun shops and pawn shops that sell guns do reserve the right not to sell to anyone for any reason, be it intoxication or apparent mental conditions. Most of them have very visible signs on the doors or around the counter area. They're a private business, and the can make that choice.

 

12 pounds is a MONSTER trigger! Is that double action or single action?

Edited by philpot123

Share this post


Link to post

I think that people shuld not be allowed to have guns for other things than hunting and the ones that have them for sports, those people know how to handle a firearm and shuld be sane. All who say they need one for protection are liveing in a dreamworld, do you seriousely belive that you will be safe if you have a gun at home, how safe will you be if a gang wants to rob your house, what will you do, will you pick up your gun and show it to them and they will run away, i hate to burst your buble but thay will nut run when they see a gun as they will have guns as well. If a gang of 5 want to rob you, you will need to kill all 5 of them to prevent being robed, will you be able to lift a gun and pull a trigger in another humans face and take his life to prevent being robbed, if you think that takeing a life to save your family is so easy that you only need to lift a gun and pull on trigger than you shuld not be allowed to have a gun. It is one thing to aim on the target and totaly diferent thing when you need to aim on another human.

Share this post


Link to post

Having a gun will not make you 100% safe, but it will stop many crimes. Nothing is 100% effective. Taking guns away from law abiding citizens only makes it 100% less safe. The situation you gave is a bad one. The gun isn't going to make you safe, but it is going to give you a chance. If they know you have a gun, maybe they'll think twice about trying to get into your house. If you hit one of them, the rest will be at least worried. Sometimes it can backfire, but if you don't have a gun chances are they do and you will wind up dead.

 

To those who say that other countries live without it that's good for them. However there were a few rights that this country was founded upon. The right to life, the right to liberty, and the right to the pursuit of happiness (which is supposed to be translated as the right to property and the pursuit of property). The freedom of religion, freedom of press, freedom of speech, and the right to bear arms. These were all laid out at the founding of our country and cannot be changed or America loses what makes it America...

Share this post


Link to post
If a gang of 5 want to rob you, you will need to kill all 5 of them to prevent being robbed...

Believe me or not, those men do not wish to be shot themselves. The higher the probability that you have a gun, the lesser the chance they will attack you. Retreating to a position which offers decent cover in your house with clear sight to the door of the room and yelling that you have a gun often actually works to drive them away.

 

But what shall you do against five armed men who have guns (or even simple knives) while unarmed? The only thing you can do, unless you get an opportunity to sneak out, is to hide and hope they won't discover you. Even if you know self-defense, taking on several people is usually a futile thing, so that falls out as a valid option.

Share this post


Link to post

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.