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Gun rights/control/ownership

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For some reason I got this e-mail:

 

"Overwhelming evidence has surfaced to prove that Sandy Hooks is a hoax. For example, the recently released CNN helicopter footage that is supposed to show children escaping from the school is obviously set somewhere else. The "grieving" parents are surprisingly joyful during their interviews. The footage from the early hours of the incident shows a traffic pattern that makes it impossible for emergency vehicles to operate. There are many other points with various degrees of credibility, but anyone doing serious research should find plenty to disprove the "official" story. In spite of this, many people still manage to believe the TV version of the Sandy Hoax drama.

 

The critics often say that it is crazy to believe that Sandy Hook is a hoax, but this is simply an irrational emotional response. Their main argument is that the media and the government would not make such a big lie and then lie so poorly. This is the exact working principle of the "Big Lie", one of Hitler's techniques. Many people know about this technique and then fall for it anyway. Another common claim is that it's hard to fake that many deaths, but the "victims" could have been easily paid off to live with new identities. Regardless of the facts, sheeple believe what is shown on TV. They are suffering from the Stockholm Syndrome - they've learnt to love Big Brother. Accurate information and logic do not matter to them. Without the means to defend themselves, they are just sheep being led to the slaughter.

 

The proposed gun control legislation does not improve public safety, but reduces the ability of the people to resist tyranny. High capacity magazines are not necessary to kill unarmed people or commit crime, but are very important for fighting armed minions of a tyrannical government, and deterrring a foreign enemy invasion. Making fighting weapons less available to people reduces their ability to defend themselves. People without the ability to defend themselves are at greater risk than people that can defend themselves.

 

While the threat of a crazy gunman exists, it pales in comparison to the threat of a murderous government. Murderous governments are not fiction, but historical fact and have emerged virtually everywhere where gun control has been put in place. Even today, millions of political prisoners are being tortured to death in communist countries. People point to the many Western nations that have gun control but no murderous governments as examples, but these governments know that if they were to start killing their own people, Americans would step in. America is the last bastion of freedom on the planet and that is why America is under sustained attack.

 

The biggest threat to America today comes from within. That threat is traitors in high positions. These traitors work covertly and watch their actions carefully lest they become exposed in a manner that removes the doubt of the public, most of whom cannot believe that such massive treason can take place in our society. They have chosen the ideal cover for their goals of subverting America - the guise of public servants. Using their positions of power, they have gradually eroded our freedoms and rights to further increase their own power. America is now on the brink of dictatorship, where this small group of traitors can have unlimited control of the nation.

 

The ignorance of the public makes tyranny possible. Many people still believe the Sandy Hoax made for TV drama/story. This amazing feat of ignorance can only be explained by a mental disorder. This type of mass psychosis is one of the conditions necessary for a brutal regime to come to power with popular support. This is the type of mass psychosis that has fueled the public support of murderous dictators like Hitler, Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot. This type of mass psychosis is now prevalent in America and the traitors know it. It is no surprise that they are now seeking to disarm the rest of us, so that we cannot resist their planned tyranny.

 

Gun control legislation is in direct violation of the Constitution that the legislators have sworn an oath to uphold. The Constitution recognizes and protects the right of the People to own firearms and to use them for self-defense. These are not privileges granted by the Constitution, they are God-given rights that are recognized and protected under the Constitution. They are rights that every legislator has sworn an oath to protect, regardless of religion. Legislation that violates the Constitution is an act of treason. Planning such legislation is planning to commit treason. Feindstein is one of the people planning this, but she is not alone. Feindstein herself has suspicious links to communist China. With leaders like this, it is not surprising that China's economy bloomed while California's withered. Her co-conspirators may have similar alternative allegiances. If they can disarm the people and rewrite the Constitution, there will be nothing to stop them from making pol!

icies to imprison people opposed to them, or to use their positions of power for profit at the expense of the nation. They are already filthy rich from having done that.

 

Some people say that the weapons available to the people are not sufficient to protect freedom from tyranny, because the state has much more powerful weapons. There is truth to this criticism and this is because the state has been gradually eroding self-defense rights of the people for some time now. Under the Constitution the people should be able to possess the same weapons as the government, without restrictions. That includes fully-automatic weapons. Needing a permit for concealed carry is already an infringement of the Second Amendment. At the same time, the state has been arming itself to the teeth, including armored vehicles and drones. These weapons are a threat to our freedom and our lives. That money should be used to build our communities, instead of holding us hostage. The legislation that infringes on our rights needs to be removed and our rights must be restored and vigilantly guarded."

 

It sounds totally insane. I really hope this isn't a common belief among the pro-gun people. You'd think people who were so paranoid of their government would move somewhere else.

Edited by Syaoransbear

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Thanks for the answer, babybluefire. =)

 

~

 

There are conspiracy theorists for most everything and I personally find the Newton conspiracy theorists particularly disgusting. =\

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Meh, just sounds like the usual conspiracy theorist bunk. I'd not really take it TOO seriously--and certainly not as completely representative of all the pro-gun people.

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Meh, just sounds like the usual conspiracy theorist bunk. I'd not really take it TOO seriously--and certainly not as completely representative of all the pro-gun people.

Yeah I didn't think so. And I see pro-gun people using sandy hook as a defense for less gun control by saying if only the teachers were carrying their guns they could have stopped the shooter, so it doesn't make much sense to me.

 

I just feel terrible for the parents of those children who have to deal with these people who say that their child isn't really dead and that they are liars or that the government killed their kid. It must be awful for them.

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And there are several posts even in this thread pointing out that in some of the schools where these horrors happened there WAS an armed presence - which didn't stop it at all.

 

How insanely horrible of whoever started that one.

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blink.gif So we in the UK only have democracy because our government is frightened of the yanks? Nothing to do with free and fair democratic elections and public accountability then. rolleyes.gif

 

And, really, half of that reads like red scare propoganda from the McCarthy era. I thought even the US had grown out of that now?

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Well, the internet was made as a thing to spread information. I think it's behaved in ways people could never really appreciate until it happened. But when you figure we have 300 million people here, even if only 1 million agree with these type of fantasies, that's still 1 million people. And when talking to each other, they encourage and egg each other on. That and I think there are people that figured out fear sells. So, they take advantage of using rhetoric to get cash and power while making the situation worse. I think that is how the Southern Strategy grew. But as time has passed, I think we have fewer people that are simply using rhetoric to their advantage and more that sincerely believe in the rhetoric itself.

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And there are several posts even in this thread pointing out that in some of the schools where these horrors happened there WAS an armed presence - which didn't stop it at all.

 

How insanely horrible of whoever started that one.

And at a school 5 minutes away from my house, a shooting was stopped by an armed presence. No one claims that having armed guards or letting permit holders carry would necessarily prevent every attack, only that we would rather have the chance of stopping an attack in the time it takes the police to respond.

 

 

And while I don't put false flag terrorism past our government, I don't think Sandy Hook was that. I find it silly, personally.

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I just don't think arming a teacher would be a good idea. When I was young sometimes the other students made our teachers cry(especially substitutes), so I think teachers might be the ones most likely to snap and do the shooting >_>.

Edited by Syaoransbear

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I just don't think arming a teacher would be a good idea. When I was young sometimes the other students made our teachers cry(especially substitutes), so I think teachers might be the ones most likely to snap and do the shooting >_>.

"Arming" teachers is what Israel did. And even though it worked, I just advocate permit holders being ALLOWED to carry in a concealed manner if they so choose. There's no evidence to support the idea that permitted carriers snap and go on shooting sprees. It just doesn't happen.

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"Arming" teachers is what Israel did. And even though it worked, I just advocate permit holders being ALLOWED to carry in a concealed manner if they so choose. There's no evidence to support the idea that permitted carriers snap and go on shooting sprees. It just doesn't happen.

I didn't say that they do?

 

Also, SURELY there has been a shooting from someone who was legally carrying a gun. I don't believe that only people who have illegally obtained guns do the shooting.

Edited by Syaoransbear

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You know what i think i only read the first post i was not about to read all thirty pages,I think this songs fits this the best on what is going on now a days.

 

I ain't nothing but a simple man

Call me a redneck, I reckon that I am

But there's things goin' on that make me mad down to the core

I have to work like a dog to make ends meet

There's crooked politicians and crime in the street

And I'm madder than hell and I ain't gonna take it no more

We tell our kids to just say no

And then some panty waist judge lets a drug dealer go

And he slaps him on the wrist and he turns him back out on the town

Well, if I had my way with people sellin' dope

I'd take a big tall tree and a short piece of rope

And hang 'em up high and let 'em swing till the sun goes down

 

Chorus:

Well you know what's wrong with the world today

People done gone and put their Bibles away

There livin' by law of the jungle not the law of the land

Well the good book says it, so I know it's the truth

An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth

You'd better watch where you go

And remember where you've been

That's the way I see it I'm a simple man

 

Now, I'm the kind of man that wouldn't harm a mouse

But if I catch somebody breakin' in my house

I've got a twelve gauge shotgun waitin' on the other side

So don't go pushin' me against my will

I don't want to have to fight you but I durn sure will

So if you don't want trouble that you'd better just pass me on by

As far as I'm concerned there ain't no excuse

For the raping and the killing and the child abuse

And I've got a way to put and end to all that mess

You just take those rascals out in the swamp

Put them on their knees and tie 'em to a stump

And let the rattlers and the bugs and the alligators do the rest

 

Chorus

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You know what i think i only read the first post  i was not about to read all thirty pages,I think this songs fits this the best on what is going on now a days.

 

I ain't nothing but a simple man

Call me a redneck, I reckon that I am

But there's things goin' on that make me mad down to the core

I have to work like a dog to make ends meet

There's crooked politicians and crime in the street

And I'm madder than hell and I ain't gonna take it no more

We tell our kids to just say no

And then some panty waist judge lets a drug dealer go

And he slaps him on the wrist and he turns him back out on the town

Well, if I had my way with people sellin' dope

I'd take a big tall tree and a short piece of rope

And hang 'em up high and let 'em swing till the sun goes down

 

Chorus:

Well you know what's wrong with the world today

People done gone and put their Bibles away

There livin' by law of the jungle not the law of the land

Well the good book says it, so I know it's the truth

An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth

You'd better watch where you go

And remember where you've been

That's the way I see it I'm a simple man

 

Now, I'm the kind of man that wouldn't harm a mouse

But if I catch somebody breakin' in my house

I've got a twelve gauge shotgun waitin' on the other side

So don't go pushin' me against my will

I don't want to have to fight you but I durn sure will

So if you don't want trouble that you'd better just pass me on by

As far as I'm concerned there ain't no excuse

For the raping and the killing and the child abuse

And I've got a way to put and end to all that mess

You just take those rascals out in the swamp

Put them on their knees and tie 'em to a stump

And let the rattlers and the bugs and the alligators do the rest

 

Chorus

Uhhh do you really agree that selling marijuana is deserving of death?

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Yep Becouse of personal experince.I had a druggy and drunk hit my aunt's car and almosted killed me and my cousins and my aunt.Well the judge just slaped him on his hand.But two years later he died in a car crash himself.Now do i believe some hand or an almighty judge was in on this yes.So the song is about the law realy and if people do not stand up for what is right then heaven help them.

 

Well you know what's wrong with the world today

People done gone and put their Bibles away

There livin' by law of the jungle not the law of the land

Well the good book says it, so I know it's the truth

An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth

You'd better watch where you go

And remember where you've been

That's the way I see it I'm a simple man

 

Edited by Laryal

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Pretty simple man or pretty simple murderer? O_O

 

EDIT: v So definitely murderer.

Edited by SockPuppet Strangler

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Why not read the whole thing thru you know this guy made this song years and years ago. It surprises me that this song fits alot.png more now than when he wrote it. This song is saying we should abide by the laws of the land not the jungle and you know it is funny.In Africa if you get cought stealing you get a finger cut off and so on.But here the criminals get just a slap on the hand so to speak.So what let the crimals just run amuck that is what you are saying since you said it was murder.What if some one came into your house you will be crying a differnt story then.I think we should be more harsheir on crimanals than what we are now.

Edited by Laryal

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Why not read the whole thing thru you know this guy made this song years and years ago. It surprises me that this song fits alot.png more now than when he wrote it. This song is saying we should abide by the laws of the land not the jungle and you know it is funny.In Africa if you get cought stealing you get a finger cut off and so on.But here the criminals get just a slap on the hand so to speak.So what let the crimals just run amuck that is what you are saying since you said it was murder.What if some one came into your house you will be crying a differnt story then.I think we should be more harsheir on crime than what we are now.

How are the land and the jungle different? Isn't jungle also land, lol?

 

I don't believe a government that gives out death penalties or mutilations for every crime would be a very successful one.

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I didn't say that they do?

 

Also, SURELY there has been a shooting from someone who was legally carrying a gun. I don't believe that only people who have illegally obtained guns do the shooting.

I didn't say that they do?

 

Also, SURELY there has been a shooting from someone who was legally carrying a gun. I don't believe that only people who have illegally obtained guns do the shooting.

Well, you did see what the cops thinking they had found Dorner in LA did to two random women's truck?

 

user posted image

 

And of course, that pic doesn't include the other cars and houses they got.

And these ARE the trained people. >.<

 

Article

 

Makes it hard to argue that training = more responsibility. Ugh. The other obvious case is George Zimmerman and some others where police have shot people up. Studies that I've sen progressing on it, the concern is that when people make themselves more comfortable with the idea of shooting someone that in a way, it can become a self-fulfilling prophecy. That's pretty much in line with other vices. Things start small, then get bigger over time. So, difference in opinion is whether or not more guns will cause more shootings. And of course, in a public school, who has the right to force the issue one way or the other. The Parents, Administrators, Government or Faculty?

 

Living in a home where there are guns increases the risk of homicide by 40 to 170% and the risk of suicide by 90 to 460%.1

 

Guns kept in the home are more likely to be involved in a fatal or nonfatal unintentional shooting, criminal assault or suicide attempt than to be used to injure or kill in self-defense.2

 

Having a gun in the home is associated with an increased risk of firearm homicide and firearm suicide in the home, regardless of storage practice, type of gun, or number of guns in the home.3

 

Rather than conferring protection, guns in the home are associated with an increase in the risk of homicide by a family member or intimate acquaintance.4

 

The relative risk of dying from an unintentional gunshot injury is 3.7 times higher for adults living in homes with guns, with handguns in the home posing a particular threat.5

 

States with higher rates of household firearm ownership have significantly higher homicide victimization rates.6

 

People who keep a gun in their home are almost twice as likely to die in a gun-related homicide and 16 times more likely to use a gun to commit suicide than people without a gun in their home.7

 

A study of firearm storage patterns in U.S. homes found that “[o]f the homes with children and firearms, 55% were reported to have one or more firearms in an unlocked place,” and 43% reported keeping guns without a trigger lock in an unlocked place.8

 

A recent study on adult firearm storage practices in U.S. homes found that over 1.69 million children and youth under age 18 are living in homes with loaded and unlocked firearms.9

 

Keeping a firearm unloaded and locked, with the ammunition stored in a locked location separate from the firearm, significantly decreases the risk of suicide and unintentional firearm injury and death involving both long guns and handguns. These safe storage measures serve as a “protective effect” and assist in reducing youth suicide and unintentional injury in homes with children and teenagers where guns are stored.10

 

The presence of unlocked guns in the home increases the risk not only of accidental gun injuries but of intentional shootings as well. One study found that more than 75% of the guns used in youth suicide attempts and unintentional injuries were stored in the residence of the victim, a relative, or a friend.

 

My personal feeling is that if the above is even remotely true, then we could expect guns in schools to follow the same pattern as guns in homes. Mostly because random people are randomly careless. So the question becomes, are we saving more kids from would be mass-murderers or just throwing them to Darwin.

Source

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It works in Afirica so why not here ? If the prisons are so crowede why are they like that? it is becouse poelpe have bleeding heats and do not think it is fare for the ones who did murder or rape to die.What are we supose to do let them back on the streets to redo those things again? Oh wait we already do that. Well i for one am glad we have guns for if any one tries to break into this house they well find a gun waiting on the other side.It is for our own protection.Also they will have to deal with my dog as well.

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I did read the whole song.

 

I'd take a big tall tree and a short piece of rope

And hang 'em up high and let 'em swing till the sun goes down

 

An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth

You'd better watch where you go

 

You just take those rascals out in the swamp

Put them on their knees and tie 'em to a stump

And let the rattlers and the bugs and the alligators do the rest

 

That's pretty sadistic.

 

I agree our justice system and political system needs major reform, but I don't agree with vigilantes murdering people when they don't get their way. I'm also not going to say people shouldn't defend themselves, but going out and murdering people because you want to isn't self-defense.

 

I don't feel like looking for the sources right now, but I had some that showed having a death penalty wasn't a deterrent to crime. I think that went for all countries with the death penalty, not just the US, so it's not like we're just doing it wrong.

 

Could we get your sources on your African knowledge?

Edited by SockPuppet Strangler

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No not realy think about what happened in the old west sure they had crimes but if the peole got cought they would not wait around for years to do judgement they would take a short piece of rope and hang them up high. Also when my dad and mom was young you did not have to fear that someone would come in and hurt or steal .Even if there was ones who done that.They would be severaly punished if the criminal got cought.There was no nice cell for them with a nice tv or computrer they were stuck in a cell with only a bed. Like i said if any one dares try to come and harm or steal from us there is a gun waiting for them on the other side of the door as well as a dog.

Edited by Laryal

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No not realy think about what happened in the old west sure they had crimes but if the peole got cought they would not wait around for years to do judgement they would take a short piece of rope and hang them up high. Also when my dad and mom was young you did not have to fear that someone would come in and hurt or steal .Even if there was ones who done that.They would be severaly punished if the criminal got cought.There was no nice cell for them with a nice tv or computrer they were stuck in a cell with only a bed. Like i said if any one dares try to come and harm or steal from us there is a gun waiting for them on the other side of the door as well as a dog.

I think about the images I saw of people being hanged for the colour of their skin - oh, sure, it was often claimed that they'd commited a crime, but often the only evidence shown against them was 'they're black!'.

 

I'm sorry, but no. Vigilanteism is wrong. It is not legal. It is mob rule. It wasn't a good thing then, it isn't a good thing now.

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Ugh, and I thought

was bad, that song is 100% worse.

 

In Africa if you get cought stealing you get a finger cut off and so on.

 

Yeah and people steal for different reasons, like to feed their family because they're poor and starving. And people sometimes kill to protect their loved ones from a home invader but are found guilty of murder anyway. And people who sometimes haven't done anything wrong are found guilty of horrible things. HEY LET'S MUTILATE 'EM JUSTICE FOR ALL.

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I didn't say that they do?

 

Also, SURELY there has been a shooting from someone who was legally carrying a gun. I don't believe that only people who have illegally obtained guns do the shooting.

Well, that's what...

 

I think teachers might be the ones most likely to snap and do the shooting >_>.

 

That ^ sounded like. It's the same sort of reasoning people used when certain states were debating allowing concealed carry. "It'll be a bloodbath! Fender benders and parking space disputes will turn into murder scenes!" But it didn't really happen that way...

 

Oh I'm sure there's SOME murders that have happened at the hands of a permit holder. But from what I've seen from the news media, they're VERY quick to tell you if someone who killed someone else was legally carrying (Zimmerman), and that doesn't happen often. But the fact is, people who have bothered to get a permit aren't the ones that are "snapping and doing the shooting." They're the ones that prevent thousands of incidents a day.

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Well, that's what...

 

 

 

That ^ sounded like. It's the same sort of reasoning people used when certain states were debating allowing concealed carry. "It'll be a bloodbath! Fender benders and parking space disputes will turn into murder scenes!" But it didn't really happen that way...

 

Oh I'm sure there's SOME murders that have happened at the hands of a permit holder. But from what I've seen from the news media, they're VERY quick to tell you if someone who killed someone else was legally carrying (Zimmerman), and that doesn't happen often. But the fact is, people who have bothered to get a permit aren't the ones that are "snapping and doing the shooting." They're the ones that prevent thousands of incidents a day.

But I said teachers, I didn't say people who carry?

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