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philpot123

Gun rights/control/ownership

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you're going to be corrupted and you'll eventually start to commit crimes.

becaus ein the long time my dad, and also my friend's dad who ha sowned a gun longer than my dad have both commited so many crimes

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Two men with knives can just as easily kill a person surprised in one's home. Not having guns does not stop people from killing. Guns being not allowed only puts people with little physical strength at disadvantage.

 

Gun murders might go down when you forbid firearms, but blade and blunt weapon killings usually go up, as tend to robberies and rape incidents.

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becaus ein the long time my dad, and also my friend's dad who ha sowned a gun longer than my dad have both commited so many crimes

Oh bother... Once again, I made mistakes in sentences that made me look like a generalist. Will I ever say anything right without looking like a bigot?

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Oh bother... Once again, I made mistakes in sentences that made me look like a generalist. Will I ever say anything right without looking like a bigot?

I understand what you meant now, so again, apologies for jumping on it smile.gif I'd be interested to see what you have to say to the previously posted statistics though.

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personally i believe normal everyday people should not have guns, we dont need them. it'd make life easier and less dangerous.

 

What about people who need guns to hunt, if farmed food is against their culture or religion? Would you have them starve?

 

Right, strict gun control has worked very well in California right? No violent crimes there. Oh, wait, they only had the most gun murders out of any state in 2010...

 

It works in the UK better than in the US. The US is too culturally entrenched with guns for that to work, though.

 

That said: I live in California and my wife was shot several times -- but she also needs her guns to hunt, in order to feed our children.

 

 

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What about concealed carry? I understand not wanting a .45 strapped to your hip causing a commotion downtown, but urban areas is exactly where I'd want my gun the most! Mace isn't always effective, and if you miss with your taser? An actual taser that fires the barbs attached to the gun has a limited range and won't do much if you miss. A gun has better accuracy and multiple chances.

When you start going into public, crowded places, your actions effect others. For example, you can walk around your house naked without harming anyone. But do that in a public area and sudden the whole game is changed. Not saying carrying a gun is like being naked, just an example showing how in-public behavior effects OTHERS rights too. So yah, carrying a concealed weapon does effect the others around you. Some people who go out into town begin to lose the right to their own safety if we encourage people to carry guns around. And yes, someone might feel they GAIN theirs from carrying a gun around, but there will still always be people who will abuse those concealed guns. And sure, most crimes are committed with illegal guns. BUT, that doesn't detract from the fact they can happen with legal weapons too. The best way to stop the gun violence would be to find a better way of controlling the spread of illegally owned guns, not trying to fight fire with fire.

Edited by Walker

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I agree on taking measures on limiting illegal firearm trafficking, as well as I do think guns should go properly registered and to be used by the designated person only, and not be handed out to criminals, but I do not agree with a ban on firearms, or even very restricted access.

 

Again - removing guns from the picture does not stop people from killing in other ways, rather the other way around.

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My country outlaws the sale and possession of guns; to hunt, you have to get a special permit and license. I don't think that even the police has guns, although I'd have to look it up on that. Personally I think it's a good thing that nobody has guns-1. We're a very stressful, competitive society and if everyone had guns, then I see a lot of trouble happening rather than people using them for defensive purposes 2. There are other ways to protect yourself than using guns, which people use like getting a dog or getting a roommate 3. There are a lot of crimes committed by a person just going after random people, and I can't even begin to assume the damage that'll cause if you use guns. Not my country, but look at the Akihabara massacre. A guy with a knife stabbed 12 people, killing 4 and injuring 8 initially, with 3 others later succumbing to their wounds. I can't even imagine how worse that would be if he was allowed to carry guns. Same with sexual violence-there were cases where the perpetrator used a knife to threaten his victim, but the victim got away by fighting back. If it was a gun, well...I don't think the victim could have gotten away so easily. A gun has, in most people's minds I think, more connotations to certain death than a knife.

 

Although, all of this is not very objective, given that I have never personally lived in a country where gun ownership is allowed (unless you count short trips to the U.S, I was in Canada for 2 years) so I've just never felt the need for one.

Edited by ylangylang

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When you start going into public, crowded places, your actions effect others. For example, you can walk around your house naked without harming anyone. But do that in a public area and sudden the whole game is changed. Not saying carrying a gun is like being naked, just an example showing how in-public behavior effects OTHERS rights too. So yah, carrying a concealed weapon does effect the others around you. Some people who go out into town begin to lose the right to their own safety if we encourage people to carry guns around. And yes, someone might feel they GAIN theirs from carrying a gun around, but there will still always be people who will abuse those concealed guns. And sure, most crimes are committed with illegal guns. BUT, that doesn't detract from the fact they can happen with legal weapons too. The best way to stop the gun violence would be to find a better way of controlling the spread of illegally owned guns, not trying to fight fire with fire.

I fail to see how my carrying a firearm under my clothing has anything to do with anyone else's rights. I'm exercising my individual rights, not unnecessarily aggravating those around me, and having a mode of self defense. Carrying a gun is not a "behavior." It's carrying a gun. My behavior shouldn't be affected by that. This has nothing to do with "encouraging" people to carry guns and everything to do with having the right to do so after going through proper channels (permits). This isn't trying to fight fire with fire, it's the classic condom rule. I'd rather have one and not need it than need one and not have it.

 

A gun has, in most people's minds I think, more connotations to certain death than a knife.

 

Actually, if a mugger or robber or carjacker or rapist has a knife, they are more likely to end up killing someone. I believe there have even been cases of guns being seized from muggers that end up not being loaded. And again, I'm sure your country has had this ban instituted for years. If you apply bans like that to America, all the law abiding citizens will gladly give up their guns, but every bad guy in the country will still be able to get their hands on one. It's a fact of life.

 

Come over to my place and shoot some guns sometime. I've got the guns and the ammo happy.gif the enjoyment is a huge factor for me too. There's nothing that quite compares to shooting guns.

Edited by philpot123

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Actually, if a mugger or robber or carjacker or rapist has a knife, they are more likely to end up killing someone. I believe there have even been cases of guns being seized from muggers that end up not being loaded. And again, I'm sure your country has had this ban instituted for years. If you apply bans like that to America, all the law abiding citizens will gladly give up their guns, but every bad guy in the country will still be able to get their hands on one. It's a fact of life.

Hey, you asked my opinion on

What is your opinion about gun carry?

 

What are the gun laws like in your state or country? Too harsh? Too lax?

 

Do you own guns? Do you shoot guns? Do you think civilians should be ALLOWED to own and shoot guns?

So I answered it, pretending that you'd allow guns in a country that haven't used them for years. tongue.gif I don't have to make every statement relating to the U.S you know tongue.gif

 

Question though, why are you guys so afraid of some random person attacking you in your house? blink.gif I just don't really understand. For me, it just has a very statistically low chance of happening (someone breaking into my house) although that could be because "house" over here means "apartments" as our country is so crowded.

Edited by ylangylang

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Hey, you asked my opinion on

 

So I answered it, pretending that you'd allow guns in a country that haven't used them for years. tongue.gif I don't have to make every statement relating to the U.S you know tongue.gif

 

Question though, why are you guys so afraid of some random person attacking you in your house? blink.gif I just don't really understand. For me, it just has a very statistically low chance of happening (someone breaking into my house) although that could be because "house" over here means "apartments" as our country is so crowded.

I'd be interested someday in a social experiment introducing firearms to a typically gun-less society... it would probably be disastrous tongue.gif but it'd be interesting anyways. So yeah, what I'm saying doesn't necessarily apply to everyone everywhere.

 

It's not that we're afraid of it. It's that we don't WANT to be afraid of it. Condom rule again tongue.gif statistically low chance of it happening, but think of it like insurance. There's a statistically low chance that a tree will fall on my house and cause damage, but we still have insurance to cover it in case it does happen.

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I'd be interested someday in a social experiment introducing firearms to a typically gun-less society... it would probably be disastrous tongue.gif but it'd be interesting anyways. So yeah, what I'm saying doesn't necessarily apply to everyone everywhere.

 

It's not that we're afraid of it. It's that we don't WANT to be afraid of it. Condom rule again tongue.gif statistically low chance of it happening, but think of it like insurance. There's a statistically low chance that a tree will fall on my house and cause damage, but we still have insurance to cover it in case it does happen.

Maybe it's because a lot of you live in houses, where it's easier to access if someone wanted to break into it. That's what I think, personally. It's a lot harder to break into, say, my house, because it's in the fourteenth floor in a nineteen-story building. And uh, I think conversely it's making you more scared, or at least, you guys are thinking about it more often than we are (the only time I got scared of a break in was when I was getting some stuff delivered to my house and this 6 feet 200 pounds guy with tattoos opened my door, but then it's just irrational and he was actually quite nice), but then again, that could just be a misconception. I wouldn't know.

 

And yeah, it'd be damn disastrous, I don't even want to think about it xd.png

 

Oh, and loud noises really scare me, so I'm afraid I'd have to pass up your offer, philpot. sad.gif

Edited by ylangylang

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Maybe it's because a lot of you live in houses, where it's easier to access if someone wanted to break into it. That's what I think, personally. It's a lot harder to break into, say, my house, because it's in the fourteenth floor in a nineteen-story building. And uh, I think conversely it's making you more scared, or at least, you guys are thinking about it all the time, but then again, that could just be a misconception. I wouldn't know.

 

And yeah, it'd be damn disastrous, I don't even want to think about it xd.png

 

Oh, and loud noises really scare me, so I'm afraid I'd have to pass up your offer, philpot. sad.gif

That could be it. Home burglaries aren't exactly uncommon, even out towards the country where I live. And it's less of a "I want to kill someone who comes into my house" thing, and more of a "I want to be able to get up in my boxer shorts at 2AM and have something to scare the guy off with" xd.png I don't have a ridiculous fear of my home being invaded, but I have a healthy realization of the possibility and just want to be prepared for it. It's the same principle as insurance, immunizations, wearing helmets, safety precautions, etc.

 

.22s are practically silent, especially when you're wearing hearing protection tongue.gif if you're ever around, you gotta try at least once! wink.gif

 

...No, but, seriously. Anybody that wants to come over. I've got a few thousand rounds that need shooting.

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A gun has, in most people's minds I think, more connotations to certain death than a knife.

 

Not true -- statistically, more people are frightened to fight back against a knife then a gun, for multiple reasons.

 

Question though, why are you guys so afraid of some random person attacking you in your house? blink.gif I just don't really understand. For me, it just has a very statistically low chance of happening (someone breaking into my house) although that could be because "house" over here means "apartments" as our country is so crowded.

 

Because it happens? I've had four home I've lived in, two on res, broken into. I don't use guns, but I throw a mean hatchet. smile.gif

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...No, but, seriously. Anybody that wants to come over. I've got a few thousand rounds that need shooting.

Only if you pay for the plane ticket wink.gif And yes, I think housing could be a big factor. Only the very rich and the very poor (and people living in the countryside) live in houses over here. And you know, the rich live in mansions, farmers are usually old people and most of them have dogs, at least that's what I've heard, and poor people...just don't get attention.

Because it happens? I've had four home I've lived in, two on res, broken into.

God, that'd be awful. As I've said, we have different housing conditions, so I've never had a house (apartment) broken into, and I've heard very few stories of that happening (I've lived on...the 15th floor, 4th floor, 9th floor, and currently the 14th floor) so we're less scared of the likelihoods of that happening. I can sorta understand that though. And...we don't have guns over here, so people are more afraid of guns than knives, because it's something you don't see very often.

Edited by ylangylang

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I don't use guns, but I throw a mean hatchet.

 

^ Also a necessary skill wink.gif guns aren't fool-proof, or always available. Alternate modes of self defense are great.

 

Only if you pay for the plane ticket And yes, I think housing could be a big factor. Only the very rich and the very poor live in houses over here.

 

If I could afford it, I totally would haha. That could definitely make a difference. Yeah, if you're past the 3rd or 4th floor of a complex I don't think there's AS much to worry about as far as home invasions. There's always the threat of economic collapse and looting though...

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If I could afford it, I totally would haha. That could definitely make a difference. Yeah, if you're past the 3rd or 4th floor of a complex I don't think there's AS much to worry about as far as home invasions. There's always the threat of economic collapse and looting though...

Thanks lol biggrin.gif

 

Uh, I don't know, economic collapse aren't just on the minds of everyday life here. we have a very hostile country in the north with nuclear weapons, and if everyone got worried all the time we won't be able to live, functionally, because we'd be afraid that the north's going to attack us and everything. We just don't worry and try to live a normal life as possible. We're actually living in a very risky society, but normalizing the threat and (even to some extent) trivializing it (for normal people-I've heard that the military is lot different) we somehow function xd.png It's one of the things I've commonly heard from people, though, "if you have those crazy people in the North, how are you living a normal life?" We just go through it somehow. It just doesn't enter into a normal person's everyday conversation.

Edited by ylangylang

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I don't know much about gun concealment laws, don't think my state allows it. But, overall, if it were to be allowed, I think it would need MASSIVE regulation. As in, once you got your permit, I think you'd at least need to be cleared by a psych so we can at least have some certainty you won't abuse the weapon. And any permits would have to be renewed on a fairly regular basis since people can change over time. That being said, it is a behavior. When you conceal that gun and go out, that's a choice; therefore, making it a behavior. And just because you as a single individual might be able to handle the responsibility doesn't mean everyone that would carry the weapon could.

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/tosses in her two cents

 

Despite being generally paranoid about other people I don't particularly mind people carrying guns, although around shady people I always get worried they might have a gun and shoot me or something. :U

 

I don't actually know anything about the gun laws in my state. Never bothered to learn them.

 

I don't own or shoot guns. I am terrified of loud sudden noises so it's not a good idea for me to shoot guns, although if necessary I've watched my share of TV and movies and could probably improvise on shooting one. My mom owns one though.

 

Yes, I think civilians should be allowed to own and carry guns, concealed or otherwise. I do not think, however, that EVERY civilian should be allowed to own or carry a gun - convicted criminals and the mentally unstable should in no way be allowed to carry guns because that just opens more doors for people to get shot either accidentally or intentionally. I don't mind concealed-carry guns; if I had one on me I wouldn't exactly want people to know I had it either, not because I'm shady but because I'm just like that. :U

 

Age restrictions = yes as far as I'm concerned. I don't think children under the age of 13 need to be using guns unless they're learning to hunt and even then only with a parent.

 

I would much rather have more crackdowns on the black market gun trade than have my second amendment right outlawed. Just because I don't own or shoot one now doesn't mean I won't get over my fear of loud noises eventually and learn. I want access to a gun to be available to me should I need to get one. I really don't think people would be any safer without guns than they are with them. Criminals will just turn to weaponry that stabs or bludgeons, which puts people who are neither fast or physically strong at a terrible disadvantage (I chopped wood for my family over the winter with a maul and an axe and they are incredibly heavy...left my muscles in my arms and torso very sore for a few days).

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Same with sexual violence-there were cases where the perpetrator used a knife to threaten his victim, but the victim got away by fighting back.

 

Guns, mind you, are primarily ranged weapons. That's what makes them good defensive weapons. Once within an arm's reach, a man with a knife is probably even harder to successfully fight back against. And, fighting back depends a whole lot on the person's physical abilities. Slow movements or reflexes? Weaker than opponent? Fighting back in the disarming/defeating them sense is immediately not a valid option. Have a gun? Maybe the attacker will back off.

 

- Those who don't know: I intervened a knife-fight once, unarmed. Got my right hand quite badly cut up in the process, could have easily died is my reflexes failed me a bit more.

 

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Personally I don't care for guns at all, unless its strictly hunting purposes or police force. I think more guns just creates more danger, no matter who's toting them around. Though I know its not realistic to want everyone to just hand in their hand guns and be on their merry way, that's my personal preference. I don't think I'd want a law against gun ownership, but I think restrictions are highly necessary for citizen safety.

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I'm ALL for gun ownership. I have a Smith and Wesson .38 revolver. We have numerous guns in our house - and we all open carry. All of our handguns are kept loaded and within easy reach when we're at home. Of course, there are no kids in my house, so safety isn't an issue. I live in Nevada - and the gun laws here are pretty relaxed. You can open carry pretty much anywhere - except schools, government buildings, the usual. When we go out, the response if any is that of curiosity about our handguns. Most people pay us no mind - and some (especially California transplants) ask us about local laws and express a curious interest in what we're carrying. I've never had mass hysteria break out because we strolled into Walmart with guns on hips.

 

I firmly believe in the right to keep and bear arms. If someone breaks into your house or assaults you....just how long do you think the cops will show up - that's IF you're able to get to a phone to dial 911. They'll get there after the crime has been committed. It takes me only a few seconds to grab my revolver - and my personal safety is my personal responsibility.

 

Strict gun laws only hurt law abiding citizens - they won't affect the criminal element at all since most criminals have illegially obtained guns anyway. And - if there were NO guns - you wouldn't see a drop in murders - people will just come up with new and inventive ways to kill each other.

 

Our forefathers got it right...it's a damn shame the current governement is trying to whittle away our rights. I'm guessing the founding fathers are rolling in their graves right now.

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I don't know much about gun concealment laws, don't think my state allows it. But, overall, if it were to be allowed, I think it would need MASSIVE regulation. As in, once you got your permit, I think you'd at least need to be cleared by a psych so we can at least have some certainty you won't abuse the weapon. And any permits would have to be renewed on a fairly regular basis since people can change over time. That being said, it is a behavior. When you conceal that gun and go out, that's a choice; therefore, making it a behavior. And just because you as a single individual might be able to handle the responsibility doesn't mean everyone that would carry the weapon could.

I don't know what state your in, but most states other than Cali allow it. There's plenty of informative gun law sites around if you want to check.

 

 

Well... it already exists in most places, DOESN'T have massive regulation, and the vast vast VAST majority of permitted carriers don't abuse their guns. It's very rare indeed that someone with an actual concealed carry permit uses that gun in a crime. It's working just fine so far...

 

I don't actually know anything about the gun laws in my state. Never bothered to learn them.

 

If for nothing else than being informed, I think it's generally a good idea to just do a quick internet search and see what the laws are. You don't have to be able to quote it, just generalities like "is concealed carry legal? Is open carry legal? Is a permit required?" kind of stuff.

 

I agree completely with the rest of your post.

 

Personally I don't care for guns at all, unless its strictly hunting purposes or police force. I think more guns just creates more danger, no matter who's toting them around. Though I know its not realistic to want everyone to just hand in their hand guns and be on their merry way, that's my personal preference. I don't think I'd want a law against gun ownership, but I think restrictions are highly necessary for citizen safety.

 

So, more cops makes more danger? More responsible citizens carrying a way to defend themselves makes more danger? How exactly?

 

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Our forefathers got it right...it's a damn shame the current governement is trying to whittle away our rights. I'm guessing the founding fathers are rolling in their graves right now.

 

...This current government has an F on gun control from the Brady Campaign. They've done more for gun rights than the last administration.

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There's another reason I don't like Nevada. I used to live there as a kid, and honestly it was a scary place. I was in Henderson and all parts of Las Vegas, and there were so many sketchy people. Open gun laws like that honestly make me afraid to be out in public for very long in places such as that. Just because you don't see people freaking out doesn't mean they aren't- if I'd seen you with that gun on your hip, I'd break out in a cold sweat. There's no way to know who is carrying for protection and who is carrying for aggressive intent; open display, in my opinion, is a form of intimidation and I don't like it.

 

I just don't understand the appeal to firearms. They're dangerous and I associate them heavily with fatal injuries moreso than I do any other weapon. I don't understand pulling that kind of thing on anyone, even a criminal. A knife or any other weapon is fine by me, but I don't think guns are the answer.

 

So, more cops makes more danger? More responsible citizens carrying a way to defend themselves makes more danger? How exactly?

 

Because cops are trusted to take part in protecting innocents, not harming them. They have to go through training and all that jazz first. For an average citizen, there's no telling what would happen with them and a firearm. I don't mind cops carrying guns because I believe they are supposed to- they are the people entrusted with the protection of citizens, not the other way around. Random folk? Not so much.

Edited by Shiny Hazard Sign

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