Gay Straight Alliance

[Sundew]

 

I just found this on my grandmother's Facebook.

 

It's a sad day that the US Supreme Court has defied the truth of God's Word and approved what God calls sin. Our nation is in deep trouble. As one brother quoted, "There is a way that seems right to man, but the end of it is death." All sin leads to bondage, not freedom. I am very sad for my country.

 

Ugh.. I'm going to have to carefully construct a rational reply. I'm sad now.

[kitsune93]

 

I just found this on my grandmother's Facebook.

 

 

 

Ugh.. I'm going to have to carefully construct a rational reply. I'm sad now.

Oh man that's terrible.

 

My uncle posted an article comparing the pride flag to the Confederate flag.

Saying that they found the pride flag offensive because it represented fascism and some other ridiculous stuff.

This is why you shouldn't add relatives on facebook.

 

Yeah, a lot of progress has been made but there's still a long long way to go.

[Omen]

I guess it depends on which part of the community you are more active in. On a whole, marriage equality might only impact those people who are or will be, of same sex relationships who plan to, or would eventually wish to get married. Whereas with transgender rights, it calls for trans people to be given the same rights afforded to cisgender individuals. Neither LGB+ nor Trans people choose to be this way, but non-heterosexual sexualities are slowly becoming more accepted across the world. I wish the same could be said for transgender and gender nonconforming identities, but one thing at a time, yes?

 

Ignoring the fact that I'm in Australia where it's still illegal for same sex couples to get married, I think this is a big win for the LGBTTIQQ2SA community. A BIG win. Marraige equality could very well pave the way for other marginalised communities, and I appreciate all the effort people have gone through to reach this point. I haven't been active in the community for long, but so far I've received far more acceptance from people I just met in the short time I've been here than anywhere else in my life.

 

I see the rainbow avatars as a good thing. Sure, maybe these people never once mentioned that they supported same sex marriage and since it's cool to have rainbow avatars, they want in on that win too. I'm one of them. I have never mentioned on Facebook where my views aligned, not that I really use Facebook often to begin with. Why? I was terrified someone would find out just why I was supportive of equal rights. I'm closeted to some of my family and everyone else on my Facebook. I don't feel safe outing myself just yet. This rainbow explosion has "highlighted" more potential allies than I ever imagined. I was extremely worried how one of these potential allies would react prior to her changing her avatar, and she's my sister! Now that I know that she at least accepts same sex relationships, there's hope that she might accept my gender identity.

 

 

I just found this on my grandmother's Facebook.

 

 

 

Ugh.. I'm going to have to carefully construct a rational reply. I'm sad now.

I'm sorry Abia, my grandmother is a bit the same when it comes to LGBTI+, just minus the God's Word part since she's atheist. Despite her ingrained homophobia (directed toward one person moreso than anyone else) and despite her recent transphobic discussion with my mother, she accepted me for who I am.

 

I hope your grandmother eventually comes around to accepting the recent ruling.

[Omega Entity]

I was surprised my conservative (and sometimes a bit tinfoily) uncle liked a comment I made on an article my friend linked.

 

I had essentially commented that the the UK gay couple featured in it were jerks for trying to sue a church for not allowing them to have their wedding there (they were millionaires, and wanted a 'lavish' wedding), and essentially supporting the conservative claim that 'teh gays' would infringe on the rights of the religious right if allowed the right to marry - and yes, I know that this couple is a giant exception to the rule, but the point that they have the potential to do great harm to the movement as a whole due to their selfishness still stands.

 

I think that it's a case of it being that he might not agree with gay marriage, but that he agreed that the guys were being jerks.

 

I suppose that this is a bit OT, but I found it kinda interesting.

 

[AnanoKimi]

 

I just found this on my grandmother's Facebook.

 

 

 

Ugh.. I'm going to have to carefully construct a rational reply. I'm sad now.

Honey I know that feel. My dad keep saying yesterday when he saw mine and my mom's rainbow avatars:

 

"My heart hurts. Its not right that you two support such sin. Its not right. You two know its wrong I cant believe you'd do something to horrible."

 

and his spiel continued along the lines of this. I wanted to smack him.

[Sundew]

Thanks, guys. :/ I don't think she'll come around (most of the comments are solemn agreements from her friends), but all of her children are very pro-free sexuality--hopefully a sign that this type of mindset is dying.

[Esko]

Now my Avatar is rainbow-afied to celebrate this!

Oh, it happened in Mexico too? That's a message for the rest of the world to hurry up and do it

[TehUltimateMage]

My parents are on the older side, and while they're not outright homophobes whenever the discussion turns friends who are gay they lower their voices to a whisper as if it's something to be ashamed of. My dad doesn't seem too keen on the marriage legalization but he's not very vocal about the denial. Sometimes they talk smack about friends' children who have brought back same-sex girlfriends/boyfriends. I haven't come out to them yet -- it's particularly hard because I'm an only child in a small family, meaning that everyone is counting on me for children and grandchildren.

 

I don't think they'll come around either, but I don't mind keeping it my little secret, especially since I haven't had any long-lasting girlfriends yet. We'll see how it goes.

[Twyro]

What I don't understand is who made same sex marriages illegal and why. Same sex marriages are the same as different sex marriages to me, both are meant to make a loving relationship official. Gay rights are human rights and there is no reason to divide the two into separate categories.

I never cared who loves who, I myself am straight, but I would never, EVER feel disgusted, humiliated or afraid to be around, or even friends with a person who chooses to love differently. Love is love and love wins, no matter what it looks like and how it's shown. I've always thought that way. Whoever is nice to me, I'm nice to them, other things are absolutely irrelevant as long as you are an honest and good person.

I know many people who say things like this: "I have nothing against gay people, but I would prefer if they didn't kiss and hold hands in the street." What is the meaning of what you said? You have nothing against them, but you still think what they do is unnatural, not normal and supposed to be hidden as a sort of disgrace? Well then, my friend, you are lying. When you truly accept someone, nothing that that someone does can disgust you or make you judge them as long as they aren't doing anything wrong or hurting anyone, and love does no such thing.

And those who say: "How do we explain our children that two men/two women hold hands and kiss in public?" If you had enough common sense you'd tell your children: "It's love. They love each other." And that's it. What is really hard to explain and what should be judged is: so many people starving, especially children, because others have no mercy to donate enough to help them buy food or medicine, pedophilia, bullying, killing for whatever reason aside from self-defense and protection, stealing, raping, torturing animals and killing them in the most brutal ways just because you've got that monstrous urge to kill something defenseless, discriminating people for being born the way they are, hated and even killed for believing in another God, having an another skin tone, speaking a different language and so on, and in the end - WAR. If same sex relationships and marriage bother you more than all those things humanity should be ashamed of and make sure it all ends once and for all, I've got news for you. Nothing is wrong with the people you hate and spit on - SOMETHING IS WRONG WITH YOU. YOU ARE WRONG AND YOUR HATRED IS WRONG.

Edited June 29, 2015 by *Silver Fox*

[sparkle10184]

Just a little reminder that the term "same-sex marriage" is trans ignorant. ^^

[AnanoKimi]

Neh.... Transgender is a gender term of gender identification not sexuality. If a transgender female decides to marry a man, unless they have taken up to fully having the sex change to female then it would technically be a same sex marriage.

 

Anywho, I don't think its that it wasnt legal, its just people didnt want to do it. Its like being able to give everyone candy but choosing not to give it to a particular group because you don't like them and saying its a rule that they can't have any. Makes no sense and that why the supreme court said, "Hey stop being stingy and give everyone some bloody candy you twits."

 

Thing is now some places are throwing temper tantrums saying "If I have to give them candy then no one can have candy! I'd rather it be no one than all!" Here's hoping that the communities in those states can over throw their governor and get a new person in somehow and make things right because wtf peoples. Seriously that's just childish and stupid and just ugh...

 

 

[sparkle10184]

Neh.... Transgender is a gender term of gender identification not sexuality. If a transgender female decides to marry a man, unless they have taken up to fully having the sex change to female then it would technically be a same sex marriage.

It's offensive to label a relationship based on genitals, particularly those of transgender people. A lot of trans people (myself included) want their birth-assigned sex to have as little to do with their life as possible. Yes, I have a vagina, no I am not a woman nor would being in a relationship with a cis woman mean my relationship is gay/lesbian.

[Snowytoshi]

Neh.... Transgender is a gender term of gender identification not sexuality. If a transgender female decides to marry a man, unless they have taken up to fully having the sex change to female then it would technically be a same sex marriage.

Yes technically that's correct, but why use a term like 'same sex marriage' when it makes trans people uncomfortable? By saying 'same sex marriage' you're excluding trans people from something that is incredibly important to them.

 

The term 'gay marriage' works just as well, is less wordy, and most importantly it's inclusive

Edited June 29, 2015 by Snowytoshi

[Omega Entity]

Wouldn't 'queer-marriage' be the most inclusive term, though? A friend of a friend identifies as queer rather than lesbian, mainly due to the fact that she's attracted to more than just women, but not the (generally accepted definition of) biological men (she's engaged to a transman, btw).

[AnanoKimi]

Touche, but sex is still a thing and well just cuz you don't identify as it doesnt mean its not there. Personally your relationship is different but legally you having lady parts would make it a same sex marriage. Not trying to be rude but its just how things are.

 

It doesnt seem fair but its necessary. What you see your self as doesnt change what you are. A cat that thinks its a dog doesnt make it any less cat and as such much be identified and cared for as a cat despite it acting like a dog.

 

And trust me this is coming from someone who is genderfluid so its not like I'm cisgendered trying to opress anyone. I don't identify solely as a woman or a man but occasionally one or the other. Despite that I am still of the female sex and as such should I decide to marry a woman it would be a same sex marriage even if I do not fully identify my self as a woman. *shrug*

 

Gay marriage as a general term works if you dont want to use the more legal term of same sex marriage. I don't really care for the term I just care that its a thing :3

 

[Edited to include last bit]

Edited June 29, 2015 by AnanoKimi

[Snowytoshi]

Wouldn't 'queer-marriage' be the most inclusive term, though? A friend of a friend identifies as queer rather than lesbian, mainly due to the fact that she's attracted to more than just women, but not the (generally accepted definition of) biological men (she's engaged to a transman, btw).

I agree!! I completely blanked on that one for some reason

 

The only problem is that because of its use as a slur, some people do not want to be labelled as queer and others do not want the term used by people outside of the GRSM community.

 

Touche, but sex is still a thing and well just cuz you don't identify as it doesnt mean its there. Personally your relationship is different but legally you having lady parts would make it a same sex marriage. Not trying to be rude but its just how things are.

 

It doesnt seem fair but its necessary. What you see your self as doesnt change what you are. A cat that thinks its a dog doesnt make it any less cat and as such much be identified and cared for as a cat despite it acting like a dog.

 

And trust me this is coming from someone who is genderfluid so its not like I'm cisgendered trying to opress anyone. I don't identify solely as a woman or a man but occasionally one or the other. Despite that I am still of the female sex and as such should I decide to marry a woman it would be a same sex marriage even if I do not fully identify my self as a woman. *shrug*

 

Gay marriage as a general term works if you dont want to use the more legal term of same sex marriage. I don't really care for the term I just care that its a thing :3

 

[Edited to include last bit]

 

I understand the legality of it, but when used generally there is absolutely no reason to use a term that makes trans people uncomfortable. Continuing to use it when it's unnecessary to do so is harmful and I don't understand why anyone would continue to say something when they knew it was harming someone else, especially if they're just saying it on a technicallity.

Edited June 29, 2015 by Snowytoshi

[sparkle10184]

Touche, but sex is still a thing and well just cuz you don't identify as it doesnt mean its not there. Personally your relationship is different but legally you having lady parts would make it a same sex marriage. Not trying to be rude but its just how things are.

 

It doesnt seem fair but its necessary. What you see your self as doesnt change what you are. A cat that thinks its a dog doesnt make it any less cat and as such much be identified and cared for as a cat despite it acting like a dog.

 

And trust me this is coming from someone who is genderfluid so its not like I'm cisgendered trying to opress anyone. I don't identify solely as a woman or a man but occasionally one or the other. Despite that I am still of the female sex and as such should I decide to marry a woman it would be a same sex marriage even if I do not fully identify my self as a woman. *shrug*

 

Gay marriage as a general term works if you dont want to use the more legal term of same sex marriage. I don't really care for the term I just care that its a thing :3

 

[Edited to include last bit]

Legally, yes, if I dated a biological female I would be in a same-sex relationship. Legally I am also considered a woman. Does that give you the right to refer to me as a woman? Absolutely not.

 

Just because my birth certificate says I am a woman does not mean I am a woman. A trans man is a man. A trans woman is a woman. If someone tells you what gender they are, it's not your place to tell them otherwise.

 

I do not *think* I am a man - I AM a man.

[AnanoKimi]

Legally, yes, if I dated a biological female I would be in a same-sex relationship. Legally I am also considered a woman. Does that give you the right to refer to me as a woman? Absolutely not.

 

Just because my birth certificate says I am a woman does not mean I am a woman. A trans man is a man. A trans woman is a woman. If someone tells you what gender they are, it's not your place to tell them otherwise.

 

I do not *think* I am a man - I AM a man.

Not saying anyone should call you a woman, You should be called what you identify as. Just saying that gender identity doesnt change biological sex and tus a marriage between a trans man and a woman is still a same sex marriage unless they have undergone surgery to change that.

 

If you define your self as a man, hey power to you. I both define and don't define as either, so meh. Just stating the facts. Of course in any conversation or direct statement regarding you or any trans person a gender appropriate term should be used. This isn't referring to a single person though so that's why the term same sex marriage is a thing.

 

Though as stated I am also okay with gay marriage or queer marriage being used. Each person should be allowed t use the term the feel fits best to their own needs. Personally I will still use gay marriage and same-sex marriage interchangeably because I feel both terms are correct. :3

Edited June 29, 2015 by AnanoKimi

[Shienvien]

Eh, just call every marriage just marriage; drop the sub-catogories and problem solved.

[Snowytoshi]

Not saying anyone should call you a woman, You should be called what you identify as. Just saying that gender identity doesnt change biological sex and tus a marriage between a trans man and a woman is still a same sex marriage unless they have undergone surgery to change that.

 

If you define your self as a man, hey power to you. I both define and don't define as either, so meh. Just stating the facts. Of course in any conversation or direct statement regarding you or any trans person a gender appropriate term should be used. This isn't referring to a single person though so that's why the term same sex marriage is a thing.

 

Though as stated I am also okay with gay marriage or queer marriage being used. Each person should be allowed t use the term the feel fits best to their own needs. Personally I will still use gay marriage and same-sex marriage interchangeably because I feel both terms are correct. :3

Except same-sex marriage is not a correct term and by using it you're harming people. Your insistence on doing something that is erasing people's identities is honestly rather transphobic. I can gurantee that any slight discomfort you feel over not being technically correct is far inferior to the discomfort and dysphoria transpeople feel when they are described incorrectly.

Edited June 29, 2015 by Snowytoshi

[Twyro]

Eh, just call every marriage just marriage; drop the sub-catogories and problem solved.

I believe that was the point of this change that took too long to happen. Call every relationship just relationship, call every marriage/engagement just marriage/engagement. We are equal as people and so are our acts of love regardless of who we choose to be our spouse. The biggest mistake the world has ever made was to separate it and make categories, so I hope that it will go on further with forgetting the labels once and for all.

[AnanoKimi]

I... I'm not gonna keep going with this. As my father likes to say "Let there be one mule rather than to." Also that's rather insulting to call me transphobic when I already made it clear I am genderfluid and as such can't even identify as one or the other. I also know, support, and am good friends with other trans people. So your judgement is nothing more than a personal view.

 

I simply feel its actually rather ignorant to accuse a term of being wrong simply because it does not conform to personal identity or view which is so diverse and still not entirely understood. The fact that Marriage adresses sex rather than gender identity is not ignorant. Gender identity is personal, Sexual organs are universal and easier to catergorize with/by. It doesnt require a ton of personal and limitless labels to work with.

 

I have nothing against gender identity, I support being who you are and not changing it for anyone, but changing a system that is simple and productive because it does not conform to a personal identity is not the right way to do things.

 

I'm leaving it at this and if you still feel you have an issue feel free to PM me. I don't mind continuing this conversation over PM but after this regardless of your response I will not reply. Should you feel the need to respond then please PM me instead. No need to clutter this thread up.

[hydrargyrum]

Maybe same-gender marriage? It seems like most other terms have some kind of problem or other.

 

Same-sex marriage ignores trans people (although I imagine that the legality of straight trans people is often complicated because of their assigned sex, which makes their marriage appear same-sex in certain legal senses).

 

However, gay marriage isn't that much of an improvement, since many bi and pan people feel excluded by that term. They aren't gay, but may be in same-gender relationships.

 

And just calling it "marriage" ignores the fact that it does have unique characteristics from other marriages-particularly that it is only recently legal in all states in the US and the specific ways that people discriminate against those marriages. Yes, it IS just marriage, but people in such marriages face unique oppression than those in opposite-gender marriages. Saying "marriage became legal in the entire US on the 26th" doesn't make sense; it needs a qualifier.

[kitsune93]

I am genuinely confused on how "same-sex marriage" ignores trans people.

I mean it's pretty obvious there needed to be a law saying "two people with the same genitalia can get married" otherwise this whole thing wouldn't be an issue to begin with.

[zorua9]

I was born with "Hyper spadious ambigua gentitallia" which means I was born a hermaphrodite or something close, yet I had testies and through 18 operation (yes, down there) I am a boy, yet I feel comfortable if people refer to me as a he or she as well.........

also, does that make me trans.... just curious....

 

PS: I love boobies..... yes, that was relevant

Edited June 29, 2015 by zorua9