Accessibility Option for Eggs

[Ashywolf]

Actually, I do find a full word easier to pick out than an acronym(like when you cave hunt, many pick out a single word like glow). Looking at that chart, and other examples that have been posted, I know I have had trouble picking out certain eggs, where I didn't before. Maybe others would be better at it, but I do see a benefit in the full word, rather than the acronym.

This.

 

Paper is easier to pick out efficiently than Pr. One makes you click, the other makes you waste seconds trying to work out what it is.

[olympe]

As I said, for words you're familiar with, this might work. And, yes, getting to learn the acronyms takes time, just as learning the egg descriptions does. However, we all managed to learn the egg descriptions and only need to see a certain word in a description to know it's rare. Heck, most long descriptions (three lines of text) are for rare eggs, with the white as the sole exception. (Which is why I tend to reflex-click them...)

 

However, with the sprite and the acronym put together, people who will actually use this feature will probably be able to tell different eggs apart just as quickly as those who don't. After all, many eggs have rather distinctive patterns to them that even colorblind people can see. As a matter of fact, people with color blindness are much better at recognizing patterns than people with full color vision, which is why the military likes to use colorblind people for analyzing satellite pics or spotting people wearing camouflage colors. link

 

Uh, what I was trying to get at is that the eggs usually provide more than just a clue to colorblind people, and that they'd need the acronyms only to distinguish between eggs they cannot tell apart without.

[Kirbyburn]

 

Seems pretty clear which is which, it's not that hard to memorize and to be frank, this is a thread for the colorblind. And unless you're colorblind, you won't use this feature.

 

 

 

This.

 

 

 

Can think of other example such as bright-breasted wyverns, gold-horned tangars, swallowtails, and so on.

 

I do have a question though-how would that periodic chart help you to distinguish between different-colored same-species dragons? Ex: ridgewings, dorsals, stripes, etc...

BBWyvern, Tangar, Swallow, that easy

Waverunner

I put waverunner because its almost the length of the time below an egg, so its within bounds.

Edited April 5, 2012 by Kirbyburn

[Coronaviridae]

What if you're not go at memorizing? So I gotta start making up phrases to remember the dragon names instead of just reading "White" "Wave" "Spitfre" "Geo" and so on?

Having a mnemonic device doesn't mean you need to associate a phrase with a specific egg; it just means we're creating a link other people can "get" between the abbreviation and the egg it stands for. We're creating the mnemonic beforehand.

[Obscure_Trash]

Seems pretty clear which is which, it's not that hard to memorize and to be frank, this is a thread for the colorblind. And unless you're colorblind, you won't use this feature.

 

(I only remember Thu and some mentions of non-forum users saying they were colorblind. I'm just wondering if you're colorblind and prefer acronyms over words?)

 

I'm guessing colorblind people are going to be as split as us, though, lol.

 

~

 

The reason that I personally would prefer words is that I know people - or just me - already use that for cave hunting and most of us have most the dragons names memorized. Likely, people will at least know the names of ones they're looking for.

 

Adding my shorthand to the spreadsheet, even though it seems a majority doesn't like the idea. ^^

Edited April 6, 2012 by SockPuppet Strangler

[Rosedamai]

(I only remember Thu and some mentions of non-forum users saying they were colorblind. I'm just wondering if you're colorblind and prefer acronyms over words?)

No, no, not at all, except when I'm REALLY drunk and colors sort of blend in together. I just found it off-putting that people who weren't colorblind were suggesting things (like the little pictures) that could be problematic for colorblind people. And adding onto that by saying that "well, I can't really remember words, so..."

 

But then again, this bout of crankiness is probably because I'm a bit sick at the moment. Sorry for the nastiness, Sock.

[stogucheme]

Due to others finding this useful, I'm changing this to include vision-impaired people in general- the colorblind and those who have trouble seeing details.

Found a cool site- the page I've linked to shows you how a color blind person sees color, depending on their type of color blindness. http://www.webexhibits.org/causesofcolor/2.html

 

And a hue test: http://www.xrite.com/custom_page.aspx?PageID=77&Lang=en

Edited April 9, 2012 by stogucheme

[Shokomon]

So is the current debate between Words and symbols now? Cause I still prefer symbols. There's a reason why the periodic table is made of symbols instead of words. It crosses the language barrier easier.

Ex:

Pb = Lead for any language

Lead = the name of the metal in english

 

I understand that DC is a primarily english speaking site, but there are people on here where their first language is NOT english, and probably colorblind/vision-impared people whose first language is not English. The symbol, after some learning mind you, would be easier to get.

 

So, DC example:

Al = Albino dragon in any language

Albino = Albino dragon in English

 

An this is why I prefer symbols. And, for a plus, Symbols are shorter than words. It will take less time to recognize 1-2 letters rather than 5+ letters (Al vs Albino), once you have the symbology down.

 

 

[olympe]

*hint* Uhm, albino is pretty much the same or similar in most languages with a Latin alphabet. (Just look up "albinism" on wikipedia and click through all the different languages you can find there.)

[stogucheme]

*hint* Uhm, albino is pretty much the same or similar in most languages with a Latin alphabet. (Just look up "albinism" on wikipedia and click through all the different languages you can find there.)

What about all the other dragons? Black is schwarz, white is weiss, etc., in German. I agree with Shokomon. We should go with acronyms. (Shokomon, please call them acronyms to avoid confusion; there's a different group vying for symbols.)

[Obscure_Trash]

Except this is an English speaking site. If we wanted to avoid words that may cause confusion, we wouldn't have descriptions. Besides, I'm assuming if someone is viewing the site in another language, any words we used would probably also translate. I'm unsure why it would be easier to memorize acronyms than longer acronyms. o.o

[Fengari]

I totally support this.

 

I voted for Thuban's suggestion, I think it looks more elegant than the others, shows most respect to the art this site is all about and might also be used by people with reasonably good vision to help them differentiate between eggs that look alike (white/silver) or just as a help to remember which eggs is which (some people's memories work better with letters than with images). It could easily be done with larger letters. I don't think increasing the link size is that big of an issue, as people can just as well zoom in on the page to get bigger links. And if it is an issue, maybe the size of the layover doesn't have to affect the size of the link?

 

I prefer acronyms over full words too, mainly because I think it would look much neater if all the 'labels' have about the same size, but also because even full words can be confusing when you're just skimming over them (which is the point on the AP). For example greenwing/skywing/ridgewing, sunset/sunstone/sunsong, hellfire/spitfire, ...

To avoid running into problems with creating acronyms while still keeping them logically linked to the name I would suggest going for three letters instead of two. I know someone here has already pointed out that 26*26=676, but unless we start suggesting dragons with certain acronyms in mind, I don't think there is much chance of dragons where combinations with letters like Q, Z, X and J would be a logical acronym (just taking the 4 letters with the highest value in English scrabble here). Three letters give much more to play with.

[KageSora]

Reguarding olympe's suggestion... About the "larger click area" advantage: Why would that text need to be clickable? When hunting in the cave, I can't click on the flavor text under each egg--I have to click the ? egg itself to grab it. When hunting in the AP, I can't click on the time remaining to grab it, I have to click on the actual egg/hatchling.

 

So, couldn't it be possible to use that same method of coding, so that the little identifier text would be visible but not clickable?

[Princess Artemis]

I think acronyms would be better, but honestly, either way would be effective at getting what needs to be done: Making the AP accessible. Therefore, I've got no preference on the method, just as long as it involves letters.

[stogucheme]

Reguarding olympe's suggestion... About the "larger click area" advantage: Why would that text need to be clickable? When hunting in the cave, I can't click on the flavor text under each egg--I have to click the ? egg itself to grab it. When hunting in the AP, I can't click on the time remaining to grab it, I have to click on the actual egg/hatchling.

 

So, couldn't it be possible to use that same method of coding, so that the little identifier text would be visible but not clickable?

Because the text would be an image that replaced the egg's image no matter what. Otherwise, you could code bots for the AP easily.

 

I'm unsure why it would be easier to memorize acronyms than longer acronyms. o.o

Because they're shorter. Tell me, what's easier to memorize here?

(Pretend it's kanji or Arabic script or something.)

[Obscure_Trash]

My point is - we already know the names of the dragons.

 

Reguarding olympe's suggestion... About the "larger click area" advantage: Why would that text need to be clickable? When hunting in the cave, I can't click on the flavor text under each egg--I have to click the ? egg itself to grab it. When hunting in the AP, I can't click on the time remaining to grab it, I have to click on the actual egg/hatchling.

 

So, couldn't it be possible to use that same method of coding, so that the little identifier text would be visible but not clickable?

 

This is a good point (2 letters, 3 letters, 4 letters, symbols, whatever). AP might appear more spaced out for people with this option, but I don't have any problems with that.

[KageSora]

Because the text would be an image that replaced the egg's image no matter what. Otherwise, you could code bots for the AP easily.

If the text replaces the images of the eggs/hatchlings, then why would it need to take up enough extra space to give a noticeable advantage to using it? Just make the text small enough to take up the same height/width dimensions as the eggs/hatchlings, or have it small enough that it's not taking up too much more space. I mean, it's not like you need a 90x90 box for the text.

 

But I don't see how putting the text over the eggs/hatchlings would make it any more of a problem than it would be with the biomes--since those are text-based for the descriptions, you can make a bot for them. It's not like it would suddenly introduce bots to the cave when they weren't there before. I mean, you'll probably not have that much different a chance of using your bot to get a rare egg from the AP than if you have a bot running in every single biome, y'know?

 

So I really don't see how it raises the potential for bot abuse beyond what already exists in the cave by a significant enough amount to actually be a huge deal.

Edited April 16, 2012 by KageSora

[Kirbyburn]

So is the current debate between Words and symbols now? Cause I still prefer symbols. There's a reason why the periodic table is made of symbols instead of words. It crosses the language barrier easier.

Ex:

Pb = Lead for any language

Lead = the name of the metal in english

 

I understand that DC is a primarily english speaking site, but there are people on here where their first language is NOT english, and probably colorblind/vision-impared people whose first language is not English. The symbol, after some learning mind you, would be easier to get.

 

So, DC example:

Al = Albino dragon in any language

Albino = Albino dragon in English

 

An this is why I prefer symbols. And, for a plus, Symbols are shorter than words. It will take less time to recognize 1-2 letters rather than 5+ letters (Al  vs Albino), once you have the symbology down.

Then how would you even know how to read the dragon's info in the first place? How would you find the color-blind option. How would you even have a scroll?!?

:L

Also, last time I check it was more for having a standard abbreviation to use in equations more than a language barrier.

 

@stogucheme

 

Symbols and letters are not the same. ☼♠ =/= Sun Spade

 

Without looking, what is the full name of Sr, Fr, and Sn on the periodic table of elements?

 

What is the full name for Tung Hydro Einst on the periodic table of elements?

 

 

And another example.

 

When we try to spell is it easier when someone tells you "starts with g ends in t" or when they say "grand..." when you're trying to spell grandiloquent?

Edited April 16, 2012 by Kirbyburn

[olympe]

Without looking, what is the full name of Sr, Fr, and Sn on the periodic table of elements?

Actually, I happen to know the periodic elements you mentioned - only in German. Strontium, Francium and Zinn. Now to get a dictionary... That's strontium, francium and tin in English, no? (Then again, I was so bored in most of my chemistry lessons that I tried to learn all the periodic elements by acronym. On the other hand, that was years ago.)

 

What is the full name for Tung Hydro Einst on the periodic table of elements?

No idea what Tung is, probably something that's very different in English than in German. However, Hydro is hydrogen (H) and Einst is einsteinium (Es, I think).

 

Okay, looked up "Tung". If you had given me the German version (Wolfram, element "symbol" W), I'd have known at once what it is. (The stuff usually found as wire in the good old light bulbs.)

Edited April 16, 2012 by olympe

[Fuzzbucket]

I may be a bit thick - but everyone using this site uses the same names for the dragons, as they are named in English - so surely the abbreviations used should reflect the names used for the dragons - that way they are effectively universal.

 

Am I MISSING something ???

[stogucheme]

Okay, point demonstration time. Can 1 person please convert these images to grayscale for me? Then post them back here? (Anyone else, don't look at them until they're converted, please.)

http://i42.tinypic.com/2r3b8yv.png

http://i39.tinypic.com/b8ml92.png

[Fuzzbucket]

Here you go:

 

http://tj.k.vu/11V.png

 

http://tj.k.vu/11W.png

 

I think maybe best wait for stog to post before saying anything.... I have a powerful preference myself.

Edited April 17, 2012 by fuzzbucket

[Princess Artemis]

Here you go:

 

http://tj.k.vu/11V.png

 

http://tj.k.vu/11W.png

 

I think maybe best wait for stog to post before saying anything.... I have a powerful preference myself.

As I said, I don't give a flying flip as long as a screen reader can read it, since both the words and acronyms are consistent and distinguishing, which is worlds better than image image image image image image.

 

Either one would serve the purpose of giving the eggs a handle so a colorblind person could recognize them. The words would be much faster but defeat the purpose of not knowing what an egg breed is called. Lots of new players start by getting eggs out of the AP--if they are blind or colorblind, they ought to have something to learn to recognize the eggs the way people with full sight do. Y'know, squinting at the Whites, Fogs, Silvers, Silver Tinsels, then throwing them back if it wasn't what we wanted? It's all part of learning the game. Adding an acronym makes that more meaningful to people who have an unduly rough time seeing the patterns on the eggs, and gives blind people the chance to participate in that at last.

[Fuzzbucket]

I guess if you are looking to a screen reader, the words would be better as many are single syllable = faster.

 

"Dorsal" might be a small problem....

[StormWizard212]

I like Olympe's idea. But if having more click space is a concern, then why not just keep the click space the egg only, and have the text above just like the time below - not a link? If it's done that way, I can't see any unfair advantage in this.