Accessibility Option for Eggs

[skinst]

I much prefer Corteo's idea of rollover's than giant letters on eggs.

[Fuzzbucket]

I much prefer Corteo's idea of rollover's than giant letters on eggs.

Quite a few people have said rollovers won't work on their machines - never mind on smartphones etc.

 

I wouldn't know. I do know I absolutely hate them. Then again, I am not colour blind so I should shut up !

[stogucheme]

It might not be implemented since it would be used in just the AP.

[...]

A colorblind person would be able to improve on scanning the letters overtime, but only to a certain degree.

1. It would be scroll wide. (And optional.) (Big, bold letters so no one misses it this time.)

2. Both this and the whole "can't memorize all those acronyms" thing...am I the only one who's got most of them memorized by now?

Anyway, I know that I can pick out letters pretty easily. Um...here, find the mistake:

OOOOO OOOOO OOOOO

OOOOO OOOCO OOOOO

OOOOO OOOOO OOOOO

 

I can find it instantly. Um...if this is a bad solution, we can find another...I still hate the roll-over text thing.

Edited March 2, 2012 by stogucheme

[Completely Different]

I don't think it will take too long. Some studies have shown that people are actually better at memorising and recognizing words than colours- and anyone whose had to work with the periodic table for more than just high school chemistry or biology can testify that you pick it up codes fairly quick. Its also better than no alternative at all, in my opinion.

[skinst]

Quite a few people have said rollovers won't work on their machines - never mind on smartphones etc.

 

I wouldn't know. I do know I absolutely hate them. Then again, I am not colour blind so I should shut up !

I find that extremely difficult to believe. I have a 2001 laptop that can see rollover's just fine. If people are using a computer older than that then it is not the site's responsibility to keep up with technology THAT old.

 

I'm not sure about smart phones myself since I hate the things, but I am sure that, given how good the technology is, there's no reason it couldn't work in some form.

[Corteo]

As an artist I really feel like the overlays really mess up the art. I know it'd be optional, but it really distracts from the art and from the site overall.

 

I know that there needs to be an option for people who are colorblind, but there should be a way without destroying the images.

[Thuban]

As an artist I really feel like the overlays really mess up the art.  I know it'd be optional, but it really distracts from the art and from the site overall.

 

I know that there needs to be an option for people who are colorblind, but there should be a way without destroying the images.

Thats why I thought (fuzzbuckets?) idea of a white (as in black outline white bucket fill paint) with black letters was better for the colorblind option. It does not change the original images, doesnt have color combo issues, is clean and clear. Pure and simple is the easiest platform.

 

 

I dont like the idea of messing with the art. I find the idea of acronym hunting to be really interesting and something that would provide a challenge for the hunting pros who love a good challenge in addition to helping out the colorblind.

Edited March 3, 2012 by Thuban

[Fuzzbucket]

I find that extremely difficult to believe. I have a 2001 laptop that can see rollover's just fine. If people are using a computer older than that then it is not the site's responsibility to keep up with technology THAT old.

 

I'm not sure about smart phones myself since I hate the things, but I am sure that, given how good the technology is, there's no reason it couldn't work in some form.

Our 2000 lappie can see them just fine.

 

Our new one last year is NOT as good as the old one on clarity. Sad but true. Fancy new tech things aren't always that great (It is a very classy Tosh, not a crap one from Wailmart !)

 

I don't mind that much as I hate lappies almost as much as I hate smart phones etc. But rolling over with one finger and trying to do anything can't be that easy...

[olympe]

As an artist I really feel like the overlays really mess up the art. I know it'd be optional, but it really distracts from the art and from the site overall.

 

I know that there needs to be an option for people who are colorblind, but there should be a way without destroying the images.

I'd say that should be the least of our worries. After all, if you don't want the overlay option, don't enable it, and you don't get the "messy" images.

[Ayelldee]

I'd support this only if it were optional. Going to the AP some morning and out of the blue to have to decipher all those letters on top of the eggs would sorta frost my flakes. And I can totally see where any artist might get a trifle disgruntled seeing her/his work more or less obliterated.

[olympe]

That's what's been suggested from the very beginning, to make this optional for people who like it. Plus, the art wouldn't be obliterated at all, for eggs would still look like themselves on scrolls, wouldn't they?

[stogucheme]

That's what's been suggested from the very beginning, to make this optional for people who like it. Plus, the art wouldn't be obliterated at all, for eggs would still look like themselves on scrolls, wouldn't they?

Um. If you had this optional feature enabled, it would be scroll-wide. No point in this if it's just for the AP.

[skinst]

I'd say that should be the least of our worries. After all, if you don't want the overlay option, don't enable it, and you don't get the "messy" images.

Actually considering that the artists made the eggs, Cort's opinion is valid, and I agree with him. Regardless of whether or not it's optional, it looks ugly as heck. :/

[Kirbyburn]

I kinda see this idea as a little un-needed. I don't remember seeing any site that really caters to color blind, and I doubt that many color blind people would stay interested enough in this site to actaully find out there is a color blind option. A few of my friends are, but I've never heard them complain about it unless it's food.

[Fuzzbucket]

I kinda see this idea as a little un-needed. I don't remember seeing any site that really caters to color blind, and I doubt that many color blind people would stay interested enough in this site to actaully find out there is a color blind option. A few of my friends are, but I've never heard them complain about it unless it's food.

Just because other sites don't cater for the colour-blind is no particular reason for this one to make things hard for them as well.

 

From a site dealing with internet accessibility:

Web applications and web sites should take into account visually impaired users as well as those with 20/20 vision.

Most countries even have laws requiring websites to be accessible to all. It comes under anti-discrimination. In a site where colour is a major issue, this seems to me an admirable idea, and it isn't as if you have to look at it if you don't need to. If you were colour blind you'd be glad there was a site that catered for you. And given that in other threads here, members are saying we want to attract people to the cave - this could help, too.

 

About the artists - the black and white option doesn't destroy their art - it simply substitutes something else that they had no part in designing. It may look ugly. So does the size of print a member of my family has to use to see anything on line. But it makes the difference between being able to use a site and not being able to. Ugly is better than nothing at all.

[Xythus]

Hm, how about having it hover half on the egg, or somewhere in a discreet corner? No one said it had to be exactly on the egg! After all, its been clarified that color blindness is not 100% color-blind, and that people are able to discern letters, so having a smaller font and not directly smack-dab-middle of the egg wouldn't make is so fugly or distracting? :3

 

 

[olympe]

Actually considering that the artists made the eggs, Cort's opinion is valid, and I agree with him. Regardless of whether or not it's optional, it looks ugly as heck. :/

Yes, it does. But you don't have to see it, unless you want/need it. However, the question is what is more important: To help people with a disability, or to cater to the artist's wishes, even though they are not (necessarily) affected by the change? What you're saying is like Disney trying to forbid its cartoons and animated films being viewable on black and white TV because it would mess up their art, despite the fact the Disney artists wouldn't have to watch it in B&W.

 

Um. If you had this optional feature enabled, it would be scroll-wide. No point in this if it's just for the AP.

Actually, there is. The acronyms are meant to help with AP catching, so they would be needed on the AP, where time is - literally - of the essence. But, as Thuban explained quite excellently, colorblind people are still able to appreciate the art, and I don't see any reason to spoil that for the people who choose this option while they are looking at their scroll (or those of other players, for that matter). That's why I believe that it might be a good idea to only show the acronyms on the AP. However, I am not an expert in the matter, and I'll gladly bow to Thuban and the rest who know better.

[skinst]

Yes, it does. But you don't have to see it, unless you want/need it. However, the question is what is more important: To help people with a disability, or to cater to the artist's wishes, even though they are not (necessarily) affected by the change? What you're saying is like Disney trying to forbid its cartoons and animated films being viewable on black and white TV because it would mess up their art, despite the fact the Disney artists wouldn't have to watch it in B&W.

You've completely ignored the other suggestion that was put forward in that case. Rollovers. They work, and for people who claim not to be able to use them I find extremely doubtful, considering (as I've pointed out as well as a couple of others) very old laptops from 2000 onwards are able to use them just fine. I'm also sure that TJ being as tech savvy as he is will find a way to make it work on the mobile site as well.

 

Regardless of whether or not us artists can see it, the fact of the matter is you need to alter the art in order to put giant letters over them or making them greyscale. Altering art without permission is against the rules.

 

A rollover on the other hand, you do not need to alter the art, you still serve the colourblind community (and probably the visually impared) while also keeping to the rules.

[Fuzzbucket]

You aren't exactly altering the art if you have a white egg shape with black text on it. An egg shape isn't exactly original art. You are just substituting - like that alt-text option you get on some sites when you block images. And rollovers would slow you down when catching. That SECOND can make all the difference.

 

But - like olympe - I would want to bow to what colour blind users would find make the site more usable..

[skinst]

You aren't exactly altering the art if you have a white egg shape with black text on it. An egg shape isn't exactly original art. You are just substituting - like that alt-text option you get on some sites when you block images. And rollovers would slow you down when catching. That SECOND can make all the difference.

All of the examples given show altered art, not what you're suggesting. I was going by what has been presented. I don't have an issue with that idea if the art is not being used.

 

As for the second, a colourblind user would still need to pause and look closer to get an idea of what they're going for regardless. People who are colourblind can still recognise shades and such, according to people who I've met who are colourblind *shrug*. Also, they'd still need to read the text on the egg for a split second in your idea. Either way, they'd still be slower by default than other users.

[Fuzzbucket]

Black on a white egg was suggested - see Thuban's post a few back, saying it would work that way, for instance.

 

And once you are used to recognising text... as someone said, it works for a split second thing too. Just like knowing which dino is which in the cave - you have to take in that line of text...

[Completely Different]

Personally, I'm not as fond as the rollover idea. Partly because even on my 2011 computer it can be a bit buggy- usually it works just find, but sometimes not at all, and sometimes slowly, which really defeats the purpose of quick hunting. It wouldn't affect me, of course, since I'm not colour blind, but those who do take the option may have similar troubles. Also, I just like the idea that with a little training, colour blind folks could read the AP at a glance.

 

I know it would be a bit sad to "ruin" the art, but I really think practicality should come first, especially since if they ever just wanted to look at the sprites they could turn it off.

[Corteo]

I do want to stress that there are ways to do it where it will not be buggy at all (jQuery). The <span> is probably not the best option for a rollover, and a jQuery would be better.

 

As I see it:

 

The advantages of rollover is:

 

1) ZERO adjustment time in terms of learning new acronyms. You can add this in, and within seconds you can be effectively hunting like a boss.

 

2) Less work for TJ for each release. Because it'll get to a point where it'll be a pain to make sure each acronym is unique. And assigning them would take a bit of work. (Probably not much, though I don't know how TJ has the site set up)

 

3) It keeps sticky issues like reveling the names of new dragons or holidays down. It would require more coding to check if the new dragon has adults yet. Plus this way there is no change. There is just as much info given away with rollovers as there is with normal descriptions.

 

Disadvantages I can see:

 

1) it might take a bit of adjusting to get used to the rollover, and it would take a few seconds off your catching time in the time it takes to move your mouse. But I'm sure with practice this would drastically improve.

 

2) Eggs with same descriptions. Assuming color blind people couldn't make out markings (Like pink eggs for example) it'd be pretty easy I would think to add like a "- 1" etc at the end.

Edited March 5, 2012 by Corteo

[Fuzzbucket]

You don't GET descriptions in the AP, and in the cave, you don't need any change at all, as colour blind people can read the descriptions there just fine, and the three eggs are identical

[Corteo]

I know you don't get descriptions in the AP, I'm just saying that they are already in the system and it should be insanely easy to add them there if you have the option enabled.