Drugs

[Kestra15]

Don't deify doctors - it makes the bad ones worse - and the good ones won't even thank you for it.

And yet they are readily vilified and no-one minds?

[Fuzzbucket]

And yet they are readily vilified and no-one minds?

No of course they shouldn't be vilified either - but when I keep seeing "trust your doctor" - not just here, all over - it's always wise to keep an eye open, just in case. For instance - if I am seeing a strange doctor and get a scrip for something I've not taken before - I always look it up for aspirin related issues BEFORE I take one, now. So would you if that had happened to you.

 

People believing every word their doctors say - even the loveliest of doctors - are unwise. It leads to those awful paternalistic doctors I remember from the 50s...

 

My daughter's doctor is a veritable god - one of his best lines is "If you can't see something wrong and a mother tells you her child is ill - always believe the mother". Even then, daughter will check on things ! It's common sense. Nothing anti doctor there. As I say - they ARE human - and they CAN make mistakes. We ALL can.

[Princess Artemis]

But right now it sounds more like you're telling people to ignore all that knowledge and do their own thing.

It's not what I'm saying. What I am saying can, again, be summed up as "trust, but verify". That will work for most people. Listen, but do more than just listen.

 

Sometimes, unfortunately, that's not enough, and medicine as a whole moves on and says, "Whoops, we messed up that time," and everyone learns from it, but there are still people stuck with the consequences.

 

Anyhow, I'm not attacking your field. I'm not vilifying your field. I'm just saying that it's not the end-all be-all and a person's got to take responsibility for themselves and learn about what they're putting into their own bodies.

 

ETA:

My daughter's doctor is a veritable god - one of his best lines is "If you can't see something wrong and a mother tells you her child is ill - always believe the mother".

 

What a wonderful attitude for a doctor to have. Fuzz knows what I'm getting at : )

Edited January 22, 2012 by Princess Artemis

[Kestra15]

In which case, no worries :~) Keep being sensible.

[amerylis]

Sadly some doctors don't always listen they hear the words we say bu never actually listen to them. and oten lay people and doctors don'talways realise that the medication is the case of the problem. I think being a knowlegeable patient is a good think it enables you to be your own advote and we sometimes all need that, but there is a culture in the UK at least of the "worried well" and "Tuesday dail mail syndrome". Every Tuesday one of the tabloids has its pull out health section with 'brilliant' artices on how your contraceptive doubles your cancer risk and your daily aspirin will kill you. Thi sot of hlp is no good and usually prompts a flood of people into the pharmacywho now want to stop their medication.

 

Being informed is good but doctors are now jaded to the people who dignose themselves online as having TB when all they have is a a bad chesty cough thats lasted two days. it comes with its own problems. Only last week did I come across a patient with a serious allergy who could take "the odd dose of ibuprofen" but the docs had written her up for one of its siblings diclofenac on her chart. Mistakes happen and pharmacists are there to catch some, but some don't get caught until the patient spots them.

 

ETA

Cannabis and schizophrenia

http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/199/5/386.f...29-2adceb7b224e

 

here is one quite interesting paper. there are several more bout 15 from the last two years but I don't have access to all the journals while not a work so I can't post them. Search in scientific databases such as medline, web of knowledge and cochrane to fnd more papers

Edited January 22, 2012 by amerylis

[Nine]

If you're arguing in favor of the current drug laws, that's what it amounts to.

As with the justice system, I feel there are gaps (I call them craters) that desperately need to be mended, some obvious and some not so obvious. The justice system in particular is harder than pulling teeth progress-wise-- things go at a excruciatingly slow pace. Sometimes even backwards (I hate politics)..

 

However, I don't believe that they are more harmful than widespread legalization of drugs would be. I see the progress that's being made (albeit slowly) and I keep hope that it'll snowball into a much more immaculate system for everyone. I feel dirty citing television shows of all things, but things like Beyond Scared Straight and Intervention are small peeks into the recent methods being put into action in order to both prevent and help alleviate 'criminal' tendencies. Again, these are just television shows and should not be taken as completely accurate. But it does show that there are people out there who care and strive to raise awareness.

Seeing that there are counties, cities, states, even countries trying to address the issues at their source instead of letting people fall through the cracks, it gives me optimism. As time goes on we're all learning of our mistakes and advances (such as the flop of the D.A.R.E school program) and are focusing much more on solutions instead of ignoring them. I see progress, so I feel that is a much better option than legalizing dangerous, addictive substances and opening up that lifestyle to more people.

 

Re: Domestic abuse-- apologizes if it sounded like I was stating alcohol was the driving point behind such abuse. It's not, I know it's a psychological tug-of-war for dominance, power, and control. Alcohol exacerbates a lot of violent situations however, and it's definitely a tipping point I prefer didn't exist.

[Zephyrgirl]

The only two laws I believe a government should have:

 

1. Do not harm or intrude on another persons property or rights.

2. Do what you say you will do.

 

That said, I'm not entirely sure where I stand on the drug issue. I don't advocate using drugs, it seems a bit foolish to me, but is outlawing them really fair? On one hand legalizing them might help in deminishing them, but drugs can be harmful to those not using them too. It's hard to keep people accountable until after a dissaster has happened. To go along with this, you also have to deal with greedy drug dealers that want people to get addicted, meaning more cases of switching out medicine and spiking food. However, I believe America would be much better off if the government kept their useless laws to themselves and actually gave people the freedom this country was founded on.

[philpot123]

I look forward to seeing studies about the effects of "K2" and other synthetic drugs in the coming years. I'm betting the lasting effects are pretty harsh.

[DarkLadyNyara]

However, I don't believe that they are more harmful than widespread legalization of drugs would be.

I think this is our main point of disagreement. The dug war hasn't affected the supply of drugs, and it hasn't been shown to curb use of drugs. There have been studies on the impact of legalization and decriminalization on drug use, and they've found that there isn't a big increase. People who are going to abuse drugs are...generally going to abuse drugs, whether or not they risk jail time for doing so.

 

What it has accomplished is trillions of dollars lost that could have gone towards treatment and the like and the highest prison population in the world, while being used as a justification for horrible abuses by law enforcement. And the system of enforcement is, among other things, deeply racist. I can't see legalization being worse than that. Let alone decriminalization of possession or use, which is what I prefer in most cases.

[Kestra15]

Artist Takes Every Drug Known to Man, Draws Self Portraits After Each Use:

http://cultso.com/artist-takes-every-drug-...after-each-use/

 

Well, not quite every drug known to man - he'd never complete it in his lifetime! But it is interesting.

Edited September 7, 2012 by Kestra15

[~Kat~]

I am against illegal drugs, except in cases that it is used for medical purposes.

 

You have people who have highly addictive personality traits to these substances and do not know it. Hard drugs that can have symptoms including hallucinations, delusions, violent mood swings, paranoia, are a huge danger to those using and their family members, friends and to others they do not even know.

 

Drug abuse often leads to total destruction financially to the person doing them and to their family. When drug users run out of money to buy their drugs they turn to lying, stealing, prostitution, robbing people that can often lead to them killing innocent people so they can get a fix for their bad habit.

 

It is really sad to watch a family member doing drugs go out of control. They lose their kids, job and bring down others around them. The person soon starts to lose weight, looked unkept, sores on their face, teeth rotting and killing brain cells.

 

Sure, I know some people can do these type drugs and not get out of control, but look at the people that get hooked. I hear some of these drug users say, well it is my body and I can do with it what I want. How self centered and selfish, soon they have no control over their body, their body and mind takes control of them, and all they care or want is their fix no matter who they hurt. They have even killed their own parents because they are so messed up.

 

Then, look at the cost of getting these people hooked on the stuff they are using off these drugs. Drs, having them commited, the family having to travel to go and see them. Others having to support them financially.

 

Long term use of opiates can damage your veins, heart and lungs. Sharing needles to inject drugs can put you at risk for developing diseases like HIV, AIDS and hepatitis C. Illegal drug use can impair your judgment, leading to injury or death if you drive. The mixing of drugs can cause undesirable effects on your body. For example, the combination of alcohol with drugs such as cocaine can cause confusion, respiratory failure and coma.

 

Through my own personal friends I know, watching them deal with their children who got hooked on drugs is heartbreaking. The Mexican Drug Cartel is in it for the money. Regular people such as ourselves that sell it is in it for the money. They do not care who they give it to or sell it to. This is why I feel these type people need to be taken out, sit in jail or six feet under. They are parasites. What else can you call them. What good do they do. If anyone can tell me that, I will listen.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Syaoransbear]

Artist Takes Every Drug Known to Man, Draws Self Portraits After Each Use:

http://cultso.com/artist-takes-every-drug-...after-each-use/

 

Well, not quite every drug known to man - he'd never complete it in his lifetime! But it is interesting.

Bath salts? That can be used as a drug? That portrait was the most terrifying.

[Obscure_Trash]

Bath salts? That can be used as a drug? That portrait was the most terrifying.

Bath salts is the name for a designer drug. It's kind of like a meth/cocaine-like drug. If you heard about the "face eating attacks" caused by a drug - those people were on bath salts. And yes, that one is terrifying. It was terrifying even before that drawing. o_o

Edited September 7, 2012 by SockPuppet Strangler

[archangelofcreation]

DO THEM RESPONSIBLY

 

if your going to do them hide your keys or hand them to someone who is sober. do them in the safety of your own home and for gods sake only do it when your alone or with someone who can take care of you when your out cold on the floor spewing up white bubbles. i personally dont use them but i know people who do and they are very responsible adults who only do it together and NEVER go anywhere when they do it. so my take is:

 

Do it with someone responsible

Be responsible when doing it.

Dont give it to kids to try.

Do only a little at a time.

Dont smoke and drive.

[Rosedamai]

Bath salts is the name for a designer drug. It's kind of like a meth/cocaine-like drug. If you heard about the "face eating attacks" caused by a drug - those people were on bath salts. And yes, that one is terrifying. It was terrifying even before that drawing. o_o

Thanks-I was confused too!

[5icky]

I personally feel that drugs should be legal. I do not *necessarily* support drug USE, but I believe legalization could provide a safer avenue through regulation, and an economic stimulant by making it easier for Americans to produce in what amounts to a VERY productive industry, rather than smuggling it in from foreign suppliers. But that's just me ^.^

 

 

Thoughts?

This.

I don't like drugs. I don't even like what they do to people's minds. Certain drugs(i should say drug) are fine such as Marijuana is the only one i even remotely approve of. I however don't do any drugs. But like you said, It would help immensely with the regulation of them and make them safer by any means. The economy may be a bit odd from it though...

Also if they legalize some of the more...less hurtful types of drugs and stop the production of other types of drugs that harm your system to an extent to do permanent damage.

 

However i don't like drugs in general. i feel that the police don't catch enough of the drug dealers/users to make any effect on it at all.

 

As well as i agree with what archangelofcreation has to say

Edited September 7, 2012 by IcarusTheDragon

[~Kat~]

JALISCO, Mexico — The dismembered bodies of 17 men were found Sunday on a farm in central Mexico, in an area disputed by violent drug cartels, officials said.

 

On Friday, 16 bodies were found across Tamaulipas, a violence-plagued state on the Texas border, two days after the arrest there of one of the region's top drug bosses, Gulf Cartel head Eduardo Costilla Sanchez.

 

More than 47,000 people have been killed in Mexican drug violence since December 2006, when President Felipe Calderon launched a military offensive against the cartels.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/16/m...26pLid%3D206247

 

Something really needs to be done about the Mexican Drug Cartel. I myself do not like drugs because they kill people one way or another. Its our kids that I am really worried about here.

 

Start legalizing one drug, and then before you know it, people are wanting other drugs legalized.

 

Maybe one day the Mexican Drug Cartel will be wiped out.

[7Deadly$ins]

Slippery Slope fallacy?

[Kestra15]

Maybe one day the Mexican Drug Cartel will be wiped out.

That won't stop drug-induced organised crime. And trying to wipe out the 'Mexican Drug Cartel' is in and of itself a laughable idea. It's not like wiping out a society with definitive members; they don't nicely congregate only in Mexico, all sitting in the same bar chuckling with evil laughter playing poker with the fingers of those they have killed.

[Rosedamai]

Its our kids that I am really worried about here.

So? They should have been responsible. They're taught-at school and at other places-not to do drugs. It's their damn fault that they got hooked onto drugs and didn't use them responsibly. You should suffer the consequences. Besides, anyone who purposely seeks out drugs, especially the hardcore ones, will get them anyways, and it's their fault that they got addicted. I don't feel a shred of pity for them.

 

/sarcasm, but still, Kat, that's basically your stance on abortion, I don't see why you're being inconsistent on this one.

 

That won't stop drug-induced organised crime. And trying to wipe out the 'Mexican Drug Cartel' is in and of itself a laughable idea. It's not like wiping out a society with definitive members; they don't nicely congregate only in Mexico, all sitting in the same bar chuckling with evil laughter playing poker with the fingers of those they have killed.

Yep. Besides, infringing on some other country's sovereignty-never a good idea. We have diplomacy for a reason.

Edited September 17, 2012 by ylangylang

[philpot123]

I am against illegal drugs, except in cases that it is used for medical purposes.

 

You have people who have highly addictive personality traits to these substances and do not know it.  Hard drugs that can have symptoms including hallucinations, delusions, violent mood swings, paranoia, are a huge danger to those using and their family members, friends and to others they do not even know.

 

Drug abuse often leads to total destruction financially to the person doing them and to their family. When drug users run out of money to buy their drugs they turn to lying, stealing, prostitution, robbing people that can often lead to them killing innocent people so they can get a fix for their bad habit.

 

It is really sad to watch a family member doing drugs go out of control. They lose their kids, job and bring down others around them. The person soon starts to lose weight, looked unkept, sores on their face, teeth rotting and killing brain cells.

I have experienced every single one of the things listed with my father, except for one small detail. The drugs he's buying are completely legal. So, how is it that drug laws are keeping people from doing these things? They're useless, in my opinion, and are filling up our jails with "criminals" whose only crime is growing what used to be a widespread naturally occurring plant, or purchasing said plant material for the recreational purpose of lighting it on fire and inhaling the smoke. Logic?

 

As for other drugs, no, I'd never want anyone to be doing hard drugs like meth. But here in good ol' East Tennessee, we have one of the highest (maybe the highest? Can't recall at the moment) concentrations of meth labs in the country. The laws don't stop people. I'm of the opinion that someone who uses drugs should be prosecuted for the crimes they commit while on drugs. They should be prosecuted for providing drugs to a minor, just like they would be for prescription medication or alcohol/tobacco, and other than that, if someone wants to ruin their life, have at it. I suppose I'm cynical because of my situation, but I've never seen the court system to be very effective at helping an addict.

 

Artist Takes Every Drug Known to Man, Draws Self Portraits After Each Use: http://cultso.com/artist-takes-every-drug-...after-each-use/ Well, not quite every drug known to man - he'd never complete it in his lifetime! But it is interesting.

 

Whoaaaaa...

 

Bath salts is the name for a designer drug. It's kind of like a meth/cocaine-like drug. If you heard about the "face eating attacks" caused by a drug - those people were on bath salts. And yes, that one is terrifying. It was terrifying even before that drawing. o_o

 

Face eater had cannabis in body, but no other drugs.

 

We had a major synthetic drug epidemic in my neck of the woods this summer. Tons of head shops selling bath salts and spice, tons of kids doing it. The problem was, every time a kid had a seizure or ended up in the hospital, it was automatically "OHMYGOSHBATHSALTS." Lots of kids got their reputations ruined because of the paranoia...

Edited September 17, 2012 by philpot123

[HeroLink42]

 

Maybe one day the Mexican Drug Cartel will be wiped out.

Unfortunately, that is unlikely to ever happen. Sure, we catch some of them, but then there are always people somewhere else sneaking hundreds of tons of drugs into the country. They will always find a way to do their business.

 

I believe that if drugs were legalized, people would want them less (people always want what they can't have) and they would be able to get help for their addictions more easily. Since these drugs are illegal, it's hard for someone with an addiction to seek help for fear of being prosecuted. Even if they haven't hurt anyone.

 

Do I support drug use? No. But I recognize that it's never going to go away so what we should be doing is providing help for those who need it instead of punishing them for managing to screw up their bodies.

Edited September 17, 2012 by HeroLink42

[~Kat~]

I have experienced every single one of the things listed with my father, except for one small detail. The drugs he's buying are completely legal. So, how is it that drug laws are keeping people from doing these things? They're useless, in my opinion, and are filling up our jails with "criminals" whose only crime is growing what used to be a widespread naturally occurring plant, or purchasing said plant material for the recreational purpose of lighting it on fire and inhaling the smoke. Logic?

 

As for other drugs, no, I'd never want anyone to be doing hard drugs like meth. But here in good ol' East Tennessee, we have one of the highest (maybe the highest? Can't recall at the moment) concentrations of meth labs in the country. The laws don't stop people. I'm of the opinion that someone who uses drugs should be prosecuted for the crimes they commit while on drugs. They should be prosecuted for providing drugs to a minor, just like they would be for prescription medication or alcohol/tobacco, and other than that, if someone wants to ruin their life, have at it. I suppose I'm cynical because of my situation, but I've never seen the court system to be very effective at helping an addict.

 

 

 

Whoaaaaa...

 

 

 

Face eater had cannabis in body, but no other drugs.

 

We had a major synthetic drug epidemic in my neck of the woods this summer. Tons of head shops selling bath salts and spice, tons of kids doing it. The problem was, every time a kid had a seizure or ended up in the hospital, it was automatically "OHMYGOSHBATHSALTS." Lots of kids got their reputations ruined because of the paranoia...

My point, illegal drugs mess up peoples lives.

 

First of all, make the penalty for selling drugs so bad, and make examples out of people, and keep prosecuting to the fullest.

 

The Mexican Cartel, and anyone else selling drugs.

 

You have to start somewhere, so the logical thing would be the sellers and the pushers.

 

It is our children of the world that are really messing up their lives by doing these drugs. By the age of lets say, 18 yrs old, you will be prosecuted to the fullest.

 

Yes, our jails will be full, so that is why I am saying, make the penalties so bad, and make them stick. The way it is now, yes the laws are worthless. It is the users who are going to jail and not the Drug Catels or the Pushers, and those people are the ones making this stuff mostly.

 

People who are using for medical use, need to be followed and if they are abusing it, cut them off then.

 

The only way to fight the Mexican Cartel is to go to war with them, and hopefully our good guys win. The police sure can't win, they are not trained like our military guys are. Yes, innocents will be killed, that can not be helped. But as it is, innocents are being killed now in Mexico, people are dying all the time there. Send our military in and do not bind their hands. You have to deal with the Mexican Cartels just like they fight, down and dirty.

 

A lot of our jails here in the USA could be cleaned out by sending them to war along with our soldiers. You could tattoo, or put somehting on them for identification. If they did well, maybe a reduced sentence for those that would deserve it, just an example and a thought.

 

If something is not done about these people and the drug situation, it is only going to get worse. I hate illegal drugs as they cause nothing but harm in almost all situations.

 

Drugs Kill in more ways than one.

 

 

[philpot123]

My point, illegal drugs mess up peoples lives.

 

First of all, make the penalty for selling drugs so bad, and make examples out of people, and keep prosecuting to the fullest.

 

The Mexican Cartel, and anyone else selling drugs.

 

You have to start somewhere, so the logical thing would be the sellers and the pushers.

 

It is our children of the world that are really messing up their lives by doing these drugs. By the age of lets say, 18 yrs old, you will be prosecuted to the fullest.

 

Yes, our jails will be full, so that is why I am saying, make the penalties so bad, and make them stick. The way it is now, yes the laws are worthless. It is the users who are going to jail and not the Drug Catels or the Pushers, and those people are the ones making this stuff mostly.

 

People who are using for medical use, need to be followed and if they are abusing it, cut them off then.

 

The only way to fight the Mexican Cartel is to go to war with them, and hopefully our good guys win. The police sure can't win, they are not trained like our military guys are. Yes, innocents will be killed, that can not be helped. But as it is, innocents are being killed now in Mexico, people are dying all the time there. Send our military in and do not bind their hands. You have to deal with the Mexican Cartels just like they fight, down and dirty.

 

A lot of our jails here in the USA could be cleaned out by sending them to war along with our soldiers. You could tattoo, or put somehting on them for identification. If they did well, maybe a reduced sentence for those that would deserve it, just an example and a thought.

 

If something is not done about these people and the drug situation, it is only going to get worse. I hate illegal drugs as they cause nothing but harm in almost all situations.

 

Drugs Kill in more ways than one.

And so do legal drugs. There's no difference between the two, or the damage they cause, hence the point that the laws aren't doing any good. We're not going to mkae cough syrup illegal now, are we? And if we did, would it do jack crap to help the problem? Does sending Billie Bob Joe to jail for life for growing a PLANT do anything to help the problem? No. Our tax money is being wasted to feed, clothe, and care for people who have committed no crime except against themselves. The USE and POSSESSION of drugs should not be a crime. It's ridiculous. It's clearly done no good. The "War on Drugs" is the worst thing to happen to our nation since prohibition. Remember how prohibition worked out? Black markets, people got alcohol anyways, crime rates went up, prisons filled up, all because we made something illegal that should be up to individual choice? Yeah, that's exactly what's happening here.

 

Why on earth should we prosecute medical users of marijuana for "abusing" it, if they so happened to want to use it in a recreational manner?? O.o

 

The answer to drug use among teens isn't invading Mexico. First, that would be an act of war against a sovereign nation. Second, there is plenty of drug production going on in America. Legalize it, regulate it, tax it, and bam. It's just like alcohol.

 

 

You reasoning would necessitate a second prohibition on alcoholic beverages, because alcohol does just as much to impair judgment and ruin lives as any drug does. Are you in favor of making alcohol illegal? If not, your position is inconsistent.

Edited September 17, 2012 by philpot123

[Kestra15]

You reasoning would necessitate a second prohibition on alcoholic beverages, because alcohol does just as much to impair judgment and ruin lives as any drug does. Are you in favor of making alcohol illegal? If not, your position is inconsistent.

This is something to consider.

 

Between four years of experience working as a night-club medic, and a year in Intensive Care, I can tell you for free there is a bigger problem with immediate users of alcohol than there is immediate users of drugs. Now, this is most likely due to alcohol being a more widely-consumed drug compared to the other illegal drugs combined, but I see maybe one or two cases a year where drugs is the direct medical problem for someone in the club, compared to at least one or two cases a night where alcohol is the issue. And in ICU I've seen as many alcohol abusers dying a slow and painful death as any other illegal substance abusers.

 

However:

 

Alcohol is so ingrained into our cultures and so widely spread that it would be impossible to remove it from society, as the Prohibition demonstrated. As for the other illegal drugs, because they are smaller scale and thus not as widely available it is easier for us to try and reduce the problem while we still can. And while I know Kat has a rather...unusual stance on drug cartels, she does have a point; there is a lot of violence associated with drug trafficking that could stand to be reduced.

 

Certainly from a medical stand-point I do not think drugs should be legalised, as it would lead to an increase in medical admissions and put a hell of strain on our resources, which are already overburdened from alcohol-based admissions.