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TJ09

2012-01-19 - Rule Clarification

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Have you seen Rubens or Goya's Saturn Devouring his Son? Now both those paintings gave me nightmares.

 

Anyways, I did have the idea DC never permitted porn. I don't recall ever seeing it on DC, but maybe that's just me.

 

Funny, I got a censor badge for placing a few stars xd.png

 

Sorry if I bothered you in any way. It was not my intention, really.

I've seen Goya's (not in person) and it's pretty freaky, yes!

 

Anyhow, you didn't bother me at all, no need to apologize. I understand your position completely, and would agree with it everywhere else. I graduated from a university that freaked out about artistic nudity, so I know something about the subject. Trust me, I'm with you on most of it for non-forum life : )

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I honestly don't think linking to art with/of nudes is a problem. If you don't feel comfortable with nudity then heed the warning and don't click the link.

 

But - in the case that it is still banned - say there was a discussion going on about a painting containing nudity. Would it be against the rules to say to google said painting if someone wanted to see it? Because it accomplishes the exact same thing, minus a middle man.

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I honestly don't think linking to art with/of nudes is a problem. If you don't feel comfortable with nudity then heed the warning and don't click the link.

Thing is, as has been said, this is gray area subject to interpretation, which is exactly what clarification is supposed to avoid.

 

I'll give you a real example. There was a popular website many moons ago that hosted video game fanart. It started getting more and more risqué even though the rules were such that it was not supposed to be. When the maintainer of the fanart section at the time (note, not the owner of the site, not someone with that kind of power) decided to post, without any warning, an example of, as I recall, Rinoa and Quistis from Final Fantasy VIII in nothing but fishnet stockings and leather gloves with Quistis choking Rinoa with her whip. There was an outcry about it and the maintainer hollered "ARTISTIC NUDITY!!" as loud as she could to defend her actions. Yeah, no, it wasn't, but just because it wasn't doesn't mean someone can't honestly believe the erotica they are posting is artistic nudity.

 

Has this ever been a problem here? No it hasn't. Will it be? I don't know, I'd rather that the rules not have an exception so we don't ever have to find out, so we don't have to set a precedent of making exceptions to the rules and end up with a long, unwieldy list of rules no one can follow.

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Personal opinions: I understand why people are cranky about not being able to post to "proper nude/natural art", however: once exceptions start being made to rules, grey areas start popping up. Grey areas are interpreted differently by each person, which leads to the different modding types you see across the staff. If things are to be run smoothly, getting the rules as clear as possible so that /everyone/ understands is the best course of action. I'v learned in my own experiences here and in the chat that no matter how carefully you phrase things, even when you purpusely set up rules to be as fluid and easy going as possible, people will always demand new rules, new clarifications. These clarifications provide a clear, concise guideline for what will be modded, how much wiggle room there is to work in. Less grey area to mod in is a good thing. As a forum user.. grey area is a fun place to play, but as a mod, it becomes very difficult to find the middle grounds between ok and not. I dont have to like the elimination of the grey areas, nothing anywhere can force that. But as a mod in my own rights, the grey area being narrowed down is a great thing. It provides everyone across the board even, consistant guidelines to post by and mod by. Wasnt that exactly what you guys asked for? Clear, easy to understand rules that laid everything out on the table...

This is pretty much what I feared if we were allowed to post or link to such images. I feel that most people on DC are mature enough to not step into the grey boundaries, but there will always be someone who will and will argue that their actions were fine. I don't see this getting out of hand on DC in the future, but that doesn't mean it can't. I guess if someone was to discuss said art, there's always the arts chat or PM, which I'm fine with using.

 

JOTB poses a good question though, because even if someone does not say to google something, people will likely post links to their DA accounts, which might contain nudes.

 

I guess a better clarification to the rule would be "no posting of images or links directly to images".

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I guess a better clarification to the rule would be "no posting of images or links directly to images".

I agree with that.

No posting or linking to nudity. . . already right there in print.

 

Post Content

PG-13 as defined by the MPAA is a good reference for what is appropriate, but by no means is well-defined enough to fully govern the forums.

As such, the following list explicitly and exhaustively defines what is considered inappropriate. Posts may neither contain nor link to any of the following content:

 

    Adult material (Nudity, pornography, or explicit sexual acts)

    Extreme violence

    Viruses, spyware, or malware

    Illegal downloads/piracy

    Accounts of illegal activities

    Threatening, harassing, or obscene content.

    Swearing/censor bypassing (links are allowed if a disclaimer is included)

 

Note that this list refers to direct references; high-level discussions are fine. Thus, a topic on the use of extreme violence in video games is okay, while links to or detailed descriptions of specific instances of violence are not.

Anything not forbidden by the above list is fine for discussion.

 

Discussing the work, and providing the info needed to look it up is enough. The people who are willing to look it up actually want to see it, and are responsible for what their search pulls up. When the kids mommy catches them surfing without safe search on.. its well out of our hands. Search at your own discretion, you have nobody to complain to if you end up in the wrong part of the internet tongue.gif

 

In most cases, if you know the name of what you are looking for and who made it.. it should be easy to find. a direct link isnt necessary and theres less impulse to do the "oh a link must click" *click* "omg why did i click that?" reflex. I see it all the time in chat.. someone posts a link, everyone looks, spoiler tags or not.

 

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In most cases, if you know the name of what you are looking for and who made it.. it should be easy to find. a direct link isn't necessary and there's less impulse to do the "oh a link must click" *click* "omg why did I click that?" reflex. I see it all the time in chat.. someone posts a link, everyone looks, spoiler tags or not.

^^

 

Exactly.

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Thanks for the update!

I agree that these rules are fair and far less restricting than the old new rules.

 

I really don't think classical nude art (David or Birth of Venus, for example) should be viewed as explicit. I have had three or four paintings or sculptures that contain nudity in my own house for as long as I can remember, and nobody's in the least bit offended. Though I'd say a lot of the things found on DeviantART, for example, are really pushing it.

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Thanks for the update!

I agree that these rules are fair and far less restricting than the old new rules.

 

I really don't think classical nude art (David or Birth of Venus, for example) should be viewed as explicit. I have had three or four paintings or sculptures that contain nudity in my own house for as long as I can remember, and nobody's in the least bit offended. Though I'd say a lot of the things found on DeviantART, for example, are really pushing it.

But allowing one nude link means arguing about the next - and so on. Best have a blanket ban than constant arguments. It's not as if anyone needs a link to nudity.

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On topic - Yes, thanks for clarification TJ09 (if we even needed one...), no prob wink.gif

 

About "protect the kids", I can only say two things:

- Protect them? Really? From what? Do you know all the "things" between kids in schools this days? TV? Internet?

- And I guess you all know, that "forbidden fruit are the most sweatiest one" and all, right? I mean, that by "trying to protect them" you are only making it more interesting for them. If they want to watch/find something - they WILL find a way.

A lot of times these things aren't about the need to "protect the children", they're simply an acknowledgment that this game has a lot of players who are children, and that by creating an atmosphere that generally follows many of the social norms of what is considered kid friendly, they're more likely to be allowed to have access to this forum, too.

 

I don't post much in GD, but I've read a lot of really interesting discussions there and I hope that continues in the future. But I think that it's important to remember that, first and foremost, this is a forum which is an extension of DC, the game. And since it's a forum for the game, and since there's an undeniable advantage to a player who can use it, I think these rules are a good compromise.

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No posting or linking to nudity. . . already right there in print.

 

 

 

Okay, well I guess I failed and managed to not read that part, despite reading the post over several times.

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Okay, well I guess I failed and managed to not read that part, despite reading the post over several times.

Sorry if it came off sarcastically, it wasnt intended.

 

 

The more i look at these rules, the more i like them. The door is there to discuss things that previously havent been, while providing a definite boundry. I dont see anything that needs changed exactly.. more wording quirks than anything else.

 

Thats more a result of over-analyzing the rules than having a problem with them though.

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On topic - Yes, thanks for clarification TJ09 (if we even needed one...), no prob wink.gif

 

About "protect the kids", I can only say two things:

- Protect them? Really? From what? Do you know all the "things" between kids in schools this days? TV? Internet?

- And I guess you all know, that "forbidden fruit are the most sweatiest one" and all, right? I mean, that by "trying to protect them" you are only making it more interesting for them. If they want to watch/find something - they WILL find a way.

This so much.

 

I've never been "protected" from those things, therefore, I never payed attention to them and was a child for longer than my friends who were. I don't need to specify what my female friends were doing at 13 when I was still going out biking with my dogs, rolling on the mud with them, reading comics and, simply, having fun being a child with no further concern of adult things since I already knew what was out there.

 

But it seems like you guys have got the impression that I'm making a fit or something. Nothing like that. Actually, I thought those rules were already there, I mean, it is common sense, no illegal stuff, no pornography, no malware, etc.

I don't want that rule changed. It is TJ's site, and I will abide by his rules.

 

I simply wanted to point out I found a little silly that such an obvious rule would expand to classic art 500, and even 2000 years old, but if he wants it that way, I'm fine.

Like someone said, I think it was Fuzzy, it's not like we ever had a discussion about Renaissance anyways tongue.gif

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Like someone said, I think it was Fuzzy, it's not like we ever had a discussion about Renaissance anyways tongue.gif

Yes it was me. How nice to think someone read that !

 

The thing is - as soon as there is ONE exception - however "obviously" OK- it opens the door for people asking for other exceptions and pushing the limits to see how far they can go - and arguments and drama and so on. This way is better. If you can't easily tell people in a post where to see it - without posting a link - chances are it would have been against the rules, if you see what I mean.

 

"Go look for Botticelli in wikipedia - the picture is there" - easy.

 

"If you go to her deviantart site and click OK when it warns of possible nudity" - ummmm...

 

"If you google for "images > dragon > breasts > pasties", then for me it's the fourth link down" - almost certainly iffy. xd.png

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Yes it was me. How nice to think someone read that !

 

The thing is - as soon as there is ONE exception - however "obviously" OK- it opens the door for people asking for other exceptions and pushing the limits to see how far they can go - and arguments and drama and so on. This way is better. If you can't easily tell people in a post where to see it - without posting a link - chances are it would have been against the rules, if you see what I mean.

 

"Go look for Botticelli in wikipedia - the picture is there" - easy.

 

"If you go to her deviantart site and click OK when it warns of possible nudity" - ummmm...

 

"If you google for "images > dragon > breasts > pasties", then for me it's the fourth link down" - almost certainly iffy. xd.png

I see what you mean, and you're right, it might be better to play it safe. Although, it's been ages since I've been to General, but I don't recall seeing someone post pornography or anything of the sort?

 

Like I said, I thought it was a rule already. xd.png

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I see what you mean, and you're right, it might be better to play it safe. Although, it's been ages since I've been to General, but I don't recall seeing someone post pornography or anything of the sort?

 

Like I said, I thought it was a rule already. xd.png

You and me both. There has been a lot of unnecessary knicker-twisting here biggrin.gif

 

Please excuse my mention of underwear xd.png

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Okay, just to make sure... no swearing at all, even the rare in-character swear word in a roleplay? (Sorry if this is a stupid question.)

Roleplays have to abide by DC rules. If it is censored, keep it censored.

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Okay, just to make sure... no swearing at all, even the rare in-character swear word in a roleplay? (Sorry if this is a stupid question.)

Is there a way to clarify what counts as swearing, too? I know there are differences in what counts as swearing in the UK versus the US, and one might not realize that they just used what was considered a swear to the other. I know of at least one word that's perfectly normal for one and not the other that gets misused, but I'm sure there are plenty I don't know about.

 

*is probably over-complicating things*

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Is there a way to clarify what counts as swearing, too? I know there are differences in what counts as swearing in the UK versus the US, and one might not realize that they just used what was considered a swear to the other. I know of at least one word that's perfectly normal for one and not the other that gets misused, but I'm sure there are plenty I don't know about.

 

*is probably over-complicating things*

Yis.

 

You is biggrin.gif

 

You can actually test it.

Preview your post and if the censorkip.gif kicks in - you shouldn't have posted that. biggrin.gif I THINK it covers all the words we May Not Use - maybe Tbuban can clarify on that ?

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Yis.

 

You is biggrin.gif

 

You can actually test it.

Preview your post and if the censorkip.gif kicks in - you shouldn't have posted that. biggrin.gif I THINK it covers all the words we May Not Use - maybe Tbuban can clarify on that ?

Okay. xd.png

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Illegal downloads/piracy

 

How about sites like Megaupload? You know, sites that are used to share one's own works but can be used to share illegal content?

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I THINK it covers all the words we May Not Use - maybe Tbuban can clarify on that ?

If you use something we think should be censored, we'll go ask TJ and he'll either say 'it's fine' or add it to the censor list. You wouldn't receive a warning but we would go back and make sure it got censored.

There are a few three letter things that aren't censored because they're a part of many other words, but since they can't be censored, depending on the post, we may go in and edit. :3

 

How about sites like Megaupload? You know, sites that are used to share one's own works but can be used to share illegal content?

 

Your post may not contain any illegal downloads or piracy. If you are sharing something via a site and it is legal, that is fine.

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