Improving the Vines

[stogucheme]

But the sprite isn't changing by much, I promise.

(Please read the following in a pep-talk-ish/encouraging tone.)

Do what you want, Lythiaren! It's your baby and you have the right to do as you please with it. Some people may not be happy about it at first, but you can't please everyone, and if you try, you'll just end up hurting yourself. Don't worry about it, okay? As long as you're happy with the decision you made, that's all that matters. Have a wonderful day, Lythiaren.

[Kanakha]

(Please read the following in a pep-talk-ish/encouraging tone.)

Do what you want, Lythiaren! It's your baby and you have the right to do as you please with it. Some people may not be happy about it at first, but you can't please everyone, and if you try, you'll just end up hurting yourself. Don't worry about it, okay? As long as you're happy with the decision you made, that's all that matters. Have a wonderful day, Lythiaren.

This. I know that as an artist you want to please the masses, but truth be told, /you/ are the artist, and it's your prerogative how /you/ ultimately want it to look. There are going to be two main camps anyway: for, and against. I know already I'm in the "For" camp Whatever you do, it'll look awesome.

[Lythiaren]

*pouts* Butbut... I want to do this the way the majority wants it to happen. We may has an Unpleaseable Fanbase, but it's still possible to please a big chunk of it! This is why I ask for feedback and ideas, I'm horribly indecisive and this helps me decide what to do! :3

Edited January 5, 2012 by Lythiaren

[Kanakha]

Good thing you made this thread then Seems you've received a lot of feedback so far. I'm with the crowd that says snarlyfaced female = the sexiness, and day/night cycles = never-ending Christmas present :3

[codyne]

::wakes up, decides to have an opinion::

 

1. Changing the description of the eggs: fine by me.

 

2. Changing the hatchlings to match the new sprites. I don't freeze hatchlings, so it won't really matter to me.

 

3. Updates to the sprite: I'm not in favor of major changes, but I like the idea of the changes as described. It would be nice to see the dragon stand out more from the plant. While I did eventually spot the dragon some time ago by staring at the sprite and looking for it, I did go for a long time seeing only the plant.

 

4. Dimorphism: Not really in favor, but if it does come to pass, I'd prefer whichever female sprite has the more similar shape and color palette to the male, so it wouldn't mess up existing lineages by suddenly throwing a different color/pose dragon into the picture. In theory, I like the idea of snarlyface, but without actually seeing the sprites, it's impossible to choose.

 

4a. Switching sprites by day/night: NOOOOOOOOOO, PLEASE NOOOOOOOOO! It's okay for the nocturnes, who were designed to be dragons that look and act differently from day to night, but the vines have no reason to have different day/night poses except to try to give everybody what they want, which is flatly impossible. I don't like my dragons changing on me for no good reason. For everybody who gets the sprite they prefer during the hours they're mostly online, there's going to be someone who never gets to see the one they like better. For every person who enjoys seeing new sprites pop up on their scroll, there's someone else who loves seeing the same sprite in the same place every day.

 

Plus, as has already been mentioned, the nocturnes are notoriously glitchy, especially in lineages, where the full-sized sprite occasionally takes over the tile and it's just a big pain. So many vine lineages have been designed around the fact that there's one vine sprite and it never changes -- they'd all be thrown into disarray by ever-changing sprites.

 

Please, let's not just have change for change's sake. Updating the sprite to fix problems imposed by the restrictions of the time they were created: great! Adding a female sprite that's been waiting in the wings since dimorphism was first planned: fine. Adding more sprites and switching them out at different times of day in order to try to please more people but at the same time introducing more problems and displeasing other people: please, no.

[raistardragon]

I have faith in your abilities and know that the changes you make are for the better. I ENJOY multiple sprites. It's a second in the life on the dragon peeps. If you saw one sleeping they'd still look CUTE. No matter how scary they are when they are awake.

 

Dimorphism = good. Day/night/switching/whueva is not needed.

[SolarCat]

I like the thought of the sneaky, cunning female. But that's just a preference.

 

I'd be happy with either female option, as they both do sound fun.

[dragonsroc989]

im still all on favor of the snarlyface openly aggresive female version =D

 

but i do not want a day/night cycle. Like someone above me said, the only reason for that would be to please people, there really wouldnt be much of a reason if any for the sprite to change based on the time of day like the nocturnals. so a day/night cycle kind of thing i do not want for the vines. =/

[Bloodyrose13]

I say go with the sneaky cunning face, it seems for fun then flat out aggression. I do not think the day/night cycle is necessary though, besides that's just more sprites and updates and opinions you have to deal with. However, I am sure what ever updates or enhancements you decide to do will turn out Spectacularly fantastic. Just remember to keep yourself happy with your art work

Edited January 6, 2012 by Bloodyrose13

[Ha-Ki]

I just read the first post and voted yes, but now I read some of the last posts and have to say that I actually only support part of the plan. I don't like the idea of day/night sprites, but I do like the idea of new sprites.

 

Maybe the idea about the day/night sprites should be included in the first post, as there are maybe more people like me who vote after reading only the first post.

[Siliskor]

Little late to the party here, but then again better late than never...

 

I didn't really collect vines when I first started playing; it took me months before I could see the dragon's head among the vines & I wanted to collect dragons, not plants. I couldn't figure out the alts, either. I eventually gave in to the lure of collecting all the sprites & caught/bred/rescued many vines that have since grown on me (no pun intended).

 

That said, I would love to see what you have planned for these guys. A new, snarling female would be great; I love the variety dimorphism brings to my scroll.

[buckykattlove]

I would like to see some changes to the hatchling, because it IS so difficult to tell right now if it is regular or an alternate Vine.

 

I really don't care about dimorphism.

[AlternateMew]

|-snip-| it took me months before I could see the dragon's head among the vines |-snip-|

Okay, so many people are saying this, and I'm dying to say my experience: I never had any trouble seeing the head. At all. Admittedly, I thought the tail was a part of the plant until it was pointed out in the OP. But I never had trouble differentiating the head and claws from the plant.

 

There. I said it. I feel better now.

Er- Sorry for the unhelpful post. The thought just wouldn't go away.

 

[Lythiaren]

Yeah the day/night thing was just a random idea that was rattling around in my head. Admittedly I'm not terribly fond of it either even though it would be kind of neat. In all honesty I'm probably not even going to pitch that to the bossman.

 

If I can pull off a pose that is both sneaky and snarly, I will try it. If not, I will either go with poll or just shove both sprites at him and let him pick which female he wants to use.

[Siliskor]

Okay, so many people are saying this, and I'm dying to say my experience: I never had any trouble seeing the head. At all. Admittedly, I thought the tail was a part of the plant until it was pointed out in the OP. But I never had trouble differentiating the head and claws from the plant.

 

There. I said it. I feel better now.

Er- Sorry for the unhelpful post. The thought just wouldn't go away.

I'll admit, the majority of my problem with not seeing the vines was because of my computer/monitor combo; it made for some difficult sprite viewing. Some needed tweaks followed by an overdue computer/monitor replacement brought them into better view, & I could finally appreciate them.

 

As much as I like them now, I would still like to see Lythiaren's new versions; I just love new things.

[bluebell_rose]

I kinda prefer the silvanon hatchling, mostly because it's a remnant from the old days when the hatchlings were identical and just re-coloured pixels.

 

You get a little bit of the old days when putting the bright pink, red and vine hatchlings together.

[Amur_Rama]

I'm keen on the update. I like dimorphism, and I generally take the stance that I can pose them in my head however I want, but I like set poses to deal with. I especially like the idea that some of the dirt is going to be taken off, so more of the actual dragon can be seen. (By the way, how do their tails work? Can they actually eat through them as well? ..how do they poop if they do?) Fully in favor of new hatchlings (will the old hatchlings remain to be more obvious alts?), dimorphism and all the other little tweaks suggested.

 

As for personality:

Most vines are pretty vicious, mine are no exception, but can be bargained with... with the awareness that they can try to eat me if they want, but I still have that vorpal sword and can go pick up another egg that looks just like them if they try anything stupid. (So go on, sit under your leaves and plot, it'll be the last thing you do.)

Edited January 6, 2012 by Amut un Rama

[Dolphinsong]

I -think- the flytrap tail is merely like an extra hand, merely used to grab and hold prey in place. As for pooping, i think they are like most animals in that reguard

[Lythiaren]

Yeah DS has it right. It has no uh... eating hole. It's mostly for grabbing small prey like mice and rabbits, but in a struggle with larger quarry it can function handily as an auxiliary limb, if it can reach.

[StormWizard212]

Just clarifying what I support... I support the hatchling update, the update to the adult sprites and dimorphism.

 

I'm not really fussed on whether the female sprite looks aggressive or sneaky or whatever, since it's all a matter of perspective anyway. I don't see the adult male as looking particularly aggressive, more like he's popping up from the soil for a chat about something. People see different things in sprites. So I think as long as the female is made well (which I'm sure she will be!) and looks good, I think most people will be happy with her. I'm looking forward to seeing what she looks like.

 

As for the egg description though, I don't think it's really an issue. Just because the egg is sitting in a bed of flowers, doesn't mean that the flowers need to be picked up and carried away with the egg. I don't think there's an issue with how it is at the moment.

 

I really hope this all gets done though, I'm really looking forward to seeing what Lyth comes up with!

[Syphoneira]

K, guess the alternating sprites idea is toast, lol, but as I sink under for the last time, would just like to point out that the alternation wouldn't actually have been relating to day/night behaviour (could have been switched at noon or something,) just to show how explosive the attack plotted was and to have been something completely different.

 

We don't have any sprites that 'act out' their behaviours, the Nocturnes merely change appearance.

 

That said, I have confidence that whatever we wind up with will be awesome, will not change the actual Vines we have on our scrolls into something different than what we chose to hunt/trade for and accumulate, and not mess up our lineages.

 

I'd also like to say that I very appreciate Lyth allowing us input - and that the final decision is obviously her own, as was the decision to make her changes by including us in the process, even if she did choose to take our most commonly expressed general preferences into account.

 

The shock of sudden changes is also avoided; even if we all can't get precisely what our ideal preferences would be, we were asked our opinions within the variations Lyth herself considered and allowed to express them, making a vast psychological difference to adjustments among those participating in/reading the thread.

 

I know that I'm impressed in a multitude of ways with the way this was done, and much happier than I would have been had I simply looked at my scroll some day to find my Vines altered - because it IS a shock to have this happen, even where the sprites are felt to be an improvement, and initial reactions of shock can affect perceptions as well which may permanently affect the way one feels about a sprite.

 

This is something where important aspects beyond those generally considered were, and I think this was a marvelously clever way to do things.

 

 

Edit: just to say that I don't understand what's wrong with an artist pleasing her audience where it also suits her own ideas.

 

If it doesn't, 'nuff said, but I should think that everybody (who's not out to shock, or whatever) likes to have their work beloved by as large a group as possible, especially in cases where the art is perpetually generated and collected by a large group of people.

 

Artists here are providing entertainment, in a sense, as well, and people either keep eagerly coming back for more, or not.

 

One more thought in answer to an objection expressed earlier by someone: would the Nocturnes be as interesting staying frozen in their dark caves all of the time, and never leaping into action?

 

Or even in the reverse?

Edited January 6, 2012 by Syphoneira

[thiefofhearts]

I just realized that you are the spriter for my favorite dragon - daydreams. They were my first dragon breed to get and although i may not have a hoard of them (yet) I just want to say that it was your egg that i had to grab first out of all the other available ones. There was no other dragon that filled me with joy or was more pleasant to look at and admire at the time of my joining (and while there are certainly others since that I really do love, it's daydreams that will be special to me as my beginning dragons). there is a reason they always grace the top of my scroll.

 

I appreciate the effort you take to try to accommodate to the forum; it's something I think is both admirable and fruitless. Still, I hope you can work something out. However, I just want to say that I am a fan of your work, your ideas, and how you present them together, not other people's interpretations of what they think you should do. So even if I say I may not be a fan of an idea, I am still interested in your creativity and I want to show my support for your original effort and not so much the community's "compromise". i understand your willingness to listen to concrits but i also ask you stay true to your vision.

 

anyway, that just kind of came off after browsing through that other thread and avoiding this one for a few days. best wishes on solving this "problem".

[Tiki G]

I just have to say, Lyth, that I (and I'm sure many others) really appreciate the fact that you are getting the opinions from everyone before you change things. While you will never be able to please everyone, you can please most, and that is what you are trying to do, and I love that.

 

I, personally, will be fine with whatever you chose. I'm not easy to take offense and am pretty easy to please. Especially when it comes to a game like this, where it is completely free and artists do this work for free as well, and most of the time, just to make others happy with pretty/awesome/epic sprites.

[Dracaena]

I only found this thread last night before bed and was too sleepy and late to read through everything then. My first knee jerk reaction at seeing the poll was "Don't even think about touching my beloved vines!". My next thought was who's thread was this? Humm, vine spriter. That does put things in a different light.

 

I have only been playing since last summer but two main reasons I decided to join were vine dragons (and alts), and ribbon dancers. I adore the unique concept of this dragon. Being not only a dragon fan but having worked in the plant trade for many years, I had no trouble finding the dragon in the tangle.

 

Once I figured out the normal hatchlings were clear yellow markings and alts were yellow/orange it was easy to see after they hatched. Unlike trying to tell the difference between white and silver eggs but that is another story. After reading the various responses from others about distinguishing the hatchlings it seems to boil down to two reasons. Equipment quality and human perception.

 

People do not see colors the same, usually close enough that we can agree on main colors but shades/hues (if I am using the right terms) can be elusive. Had a neighbor one time who's TV had the greenest people. Bugged the heck out of me until her daughter confided, that was what looked normal to mom. Even if the rest of us were looking at green flesh tones.

 

I have no problem with changing the hatchling, or updating the egg description. I always figured the egg description was partly imagination. The sprite is an egg, not a whole garden. Though things are seeming to be more literal now. It will be fun being able to grab the vines with the spaz clickers missing the shorter description lines.

 

I am surprised with the idea of a different sprite for the female. Considering the breed, in my mind there wouldn't be a big difference (appearance) between the genders. Though if you have had a sprite for female all this time, it would be a shame not to use it. I would not be so agreeable if this was someone else suggesting, that wasn't the original creator of this dragon.

 

As far as appearance, I envision these dragons as lurkers. You might see them moving about a little bit but as far as a charge, not really. If you see a charge, you aren't going to live to tell the tale. If you have a sharp eye you can make out the dragon in the vines, the ones without sharp eyes are lunch. Not to say they might not lurk with their mouths open and at the ready, like the venus fly trap plant.

[Renorei]

Lythiaren, this is going to sound kind of random but do you think you might consider one additional change to the vine dragons?

 

I'd love to see their breed name officially changed from "Dark Green Dragons" to "Vine Dragons." Most people call them "Vine Dragons" or "Vines", and it's a more succinct name than "Dark Green" and the name does a better job of telling us about the breed.