Improving the Vines

[Cinnamin Draconna]

Absolutely LOVE the idea of an updated Vine dragon!!!!!

 

In addition to all of your reasons for changing the hatchling, I also point out that it's just a recolored copy of the red, old pink and holly hatchlings.. which has always annoyed the heck out of me.

 

Adding contrast to make the dragon and the plant more visible.. awesome! It took me ages to figure out that there actually WAS a dragon in that pile of vines.

[Silence2]

1. The egg: What you have said makes sense. I am fine with a different but similar description, but I'd support whatever you decide.

 

2. Hatchlings: I am not against changing the hatchlings, even though I understand some won't be happy with the change. But, I do think having the hatchling better match the adult would be nice.

 

3. Adults: I'd like to see the dragon you envisioned in all of his/her glory. I am not against fixing colors, the crown, or the dirt.

 

4. Dimorphism: I like dimorphism, so I'd support it. But, if it didn't happen, I wouldn't make a fuss.

 

So, I guess that means I do support the changes. If they don't happen, I'll be fine with it as I do like the sprite now. But, if it is possible that Vines could be better, I'd like them to have that chance.

 

[Wookieinmashoo]

Yes to everything else, but please please no dimorphism! In principle, I don't hate dimorphism, but I hate the way it is usually executed. The males usually look epic/badass/dangerous while the females end up looking more demure, or, at best, threatening in a more subtle way. If you're going to do dimorphism, make the female just as tough-looking and in-your-face vicious as the male. The way you describe the female having a more "subtle viciousness" makes me think they're going to end up looking like the female embers compared to the male embers, or the female blacks compared to the male blacks. If you going to do dimorphism, both sprites should be equally awesome and it shouldn't look like one has been shortchanged. Examples of "dimorphism done right" include the Sunsongs, the Nebulas, the BBWs, the Sunrises/Sunsets, and a few other examples. The great thing about these breeds is that while there are different sprites for the males and females, there is no way that you could tell just by looking which sprite the spriter intended to be the male and which to be the female. They look like the same dragon with the same attitude, neither is more subtle or feminine compared to the other, and both genders are equally dynamic and interesting. I am sure the spriters aren't doing this on purpose but there is a great deal of "subconscious sexism" at play when you look at male sprites compared to female sprites. When you look at dragons that are on the completed list but aren't in the cave yet, the situation seems even worse. It's like, the sprites that are already in the cave are influencing many up-and-coming spriters to think that their females need to somehow be less active, less dynamic, less threatening, than the males. I'm just so tired of it.

SO far I have yet to see a breed that displays any amount of sexism except for the silvers and the hellfire and even that is extremely tiny. I don't see how the female embers look demure at all. I really much prefer the female sprite over the male because she looks more fierce to me than the male. All the male looks like to me is that he is rawring at nothing like an idiot.

[Lythiaren]

so only the regulars are getting a male and female sprite? is this correct? also will the new hatchlings also be male/female or are they staying the same?

The standard vine would be getting a shading tweak, a tiny bit of meddling on the head (and I mean it -- it's probably less than 15 pixels I intend to change rather than simply reshade), possible removal of dirt, and the addition of a female sprite.

 

Admittedly the lady is not "in your face", but as with the gold, she isn't to scale. Her plant is much, much larger in relation to her body than the male's, and her big leaves are held at a different angle. These things combined mean that she's much better at hiding under her fronds.

Edited January 3, 2012 by Lythiaren

[Tawanda001]

Will the update have as much contrast as the vine in your avatar?

To be honest I've been drooling over your avatar vine since I noticed it right around Christmas. Love the flowers!

[thiefofhearts]

The standard vine would be getting a shading tweak, a tiny bit of meddling on the head (and I mean it -- it's probably less than 15 pixels I intend to change rather than simply reshade), possible removal of dirt, and the addition of a female sprite.

 

Admittedly the lady is not "in your face", but as with the gold, she isn't to scale. Her plant is much, much larger in relation to her body than the male's, and her big leaves are held at a different angle. These things combined mean that she's much better at hiding under her fronds.

but alts are still the same, with the exception of the hatchlings, if i understand correctly. still i am curious if the regular hatchlings are receiving a male/female version or not.

 

also, i do not actually mind dimorphism. i never really see any sexism or anything in the sprites, whether they look different or not, so no worries there.

[Sumoka]

personally i am very fond of the old sprites and don't really want them changed, NU! (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

 

...man that sounds selfish of me LOL

[stogucheme]

The sprites are more or less complete already, Shinobi. Changes to the male are mostly just shading and making the plant a little less minty and more green. Lady Vine is a new sprite altogether, as are the little ones. I'm just gauging the general sentiment before I go bother TJ for anything else that needs doing. I can still change things if needed.

The new colors for the male sprite...is it your avatar? (One of them, anyway...) Because personally, I don't like the color palette. There is less color variation and more shade variation, which to my eyes makes it a bit boring. I guess...I like sprites that are more dynamic?

 

Overall, I would not like the Vines to change. I like them as they are, and would feel awkward if they changed. That is up to your discretion, though.

[lightningsky]

i voted yes, because i think lythiaren will do a great job with updating her sprite, since it's hers. i think she would make sure to appeal to both of the people who want it to have the "old charm" and to the players who want a better sprite.

 

to be honest, i wouldn't mind either way. vines are cool now, but a new sprite might make me want to hoard them...like the golds now, lol.

 

so yeah, that's what i think in all of this.

[Gsea]

I absolutely support the update of Vines. I love them, but I did see a few flaws in the overall design. None of them are/were a really big deal to me, but I'd love to see them improved. I also think it's great that Lythiaren was the one to propose this, since it's her sprite. The plan, as far as I can see, covers everything that might need tweaking.

 

Yes. <3

[AlternateMew]

Well, what do you know. I'm biased. I saw this thread thinking "Nooo! I love them now!" And then I saw that their spriter made the thread, and my opinion completely changed.

 

For the eggs: A description change would work for me, but the suggested change doesn't fit for the cave. Past tense works for the scroll, but no upon finding it in the cave. This leaves an interesting problem - past tense says that it was in grass and flowers, but present tense makes it hatch with grass and flowers. Hmm. What about this? The parents would know not to put their plant-sensitive egg in plants, right? And I'm presuming even for the runts that they reject to the cave for humans. (How kind of the cave-Vines not to eat them instead! ) And you really zoom in on the dirt issue on the adult sprite. What about this: "This egg is sitting in a small mound of dirt." or "This egg is sitting in a small depression in the dirt." Just a suggestion. It keeps the earthy feel, even if it's not exactly a plant feel.

 

Hatchlings: Please, go for it! Personally, I've always felt that the non-alt hatchies looked a bit dull compared to the alts, and now I know why. I never really noticed the differences between them and the adults, but I did notice the bi-colored horns. And that just feels odd. Dunno why, but it's a bit jarring to me on that sprite. Didn't know they were horns, though.

 

Adults- Update: The flytrap is it's tail?! Never knew! And so that's what their bodies look like! Uh, back on topic. I wouldn't protest, I guess. I really love their current sprite, but the changes you described don't sound too jarring. Maybe the differing of the dragon from the plant, but I could probably grow used to that. I'm iffy on removing the dirt, but you bring up a good reason for it. I do like the dirt, though... please leave some of the dirt? It's a really nice touch. It's so unique in my opinion.

 

Adults- Dimorphism: I love the vines. I love their one single sprite, and PB Vines look absolutely splendid. But you know what? With such a wonderful sprite, I trust that a female from you would be just as brilliant. As much as I love the non-dimorphism of the vines, I will not protest dimorphism. Would be great if you get the OK to show us the female first.

 

As a final note, I want to add needless praise. Because I love the normal adult vines. I have alt vines because of their rarity, but I love the normals. It makes alt hunting not so disappointing when I get an alt-fail. They really are my cup of tea. Wait - I hate tea. They're my flavor of Gatorade, then! /shot /end of needless praise

 

(Typo/correction edit)

Edited January 3, 2012 by AlternateMew

[olympe]

Truth to be told, if anything but Lythiaren had posted this, I would have stated that I really like the vines the way they are. (Honestly, I do.) However, I'm rather open to change, and I totally agree with all the changes Lyth outlined so far. And dimorphism... DO WANT! So, yeah, go for it.

 

ETA: Am I the only person on DC to see the vines in all their glory (no pun intended) on first sight? I could make out all the details from day one, so to speak.

Edited January 3, 2012 by olympe

[Kila]

Truth to be told, if anything but Lythiaren had posted this, I would have stated that I really like the vines the way they are. (Honestly, I do.) However, I'm rather open to change, and I totally agree with all the changes Lyth outlined so far. And dimorphism... DO WANT! So, yeah, go for it.

 

ETA: Am I the only person on DC to see the vines in all their glory (no pun intended) on first sight? I could make out all the details from day one, so to speak.

You're not the only one I was really happy to see the pre-fog sprite, which was just a plant, replaced with an actual dragon.

[HollyTheColliegirl]

I have to admit that I always thought the sprite was just a plant (I never looked too close at sprites until recently). One day, I was looking at all of my sprites and I saw the head, and started laughing at myself. Since many players have said this happened to them too, I fully support the changes. They all seem like improvements, with small cons that wouldn't change my whole game.

 

DIMORPHISM! YES! Me like-y.

[hotbottleo'water1]

but alts are still the same, with the exception of the hatchlings, if i understand correctly. still i am curious if the regular hatchlings are receiving a male/female version or not.

 

also, i do not actually mind dimorphism. i never really see any sexism or anything in the sprites, whether they look different or not, so no worries there.

The alts are not changing, just the normal.

[rubyshoes]

I'm for improving the vines and for dimorphism.

[Nectaris]

Egg - neutral on, I don't really care one way or the other

 

Hatchlings - Definitely a yes on these, I never really cared much for the current ones, and I remember seeing some potential replacements you made a long time ago, and they looked good then.

 

Adults - Although I never had any problems telling the dragon from the plant, I don't see anything wrong with an update.

 

Dimorphism - Neutral, on one hand, it does create more variety, but on the other, I agree with Renorei, so often I see the female in a static, relaxed pose with muted/pale(i.e. our notion of feminine, not necessarily the same differences found in nature) colors while the male is in a dynamic pose with bold colors. A lot of this I see in the requests section, not the ones currently released, but there are some that fit this.

[Sif]

I'm all for the updates, Lyth!<3

 

^^

[Barbayat]

The adult Vine Dragon is one of my absolute favourite sprites. My first reaction was - do not change anything.

 

Then after actually reading the proposed changes I am convinced that Lythiaren is only going to make it more awesome.

 

Plus, I am one of those people who love dimorphism

[HawktalonOfRiverClan]

I like the Vines just the way they are. Although dimorphism would be awesomeness.

[-platinum-draco-]

Yes!

I'm all for improvement, and all proposed changes seem great.

 

(Although, if it is the vine in your avatar, less minty vines are a must.)

 

Dimorphism - Neutral, on one hand, it does create more variety, but on the other, I agree with Renorei, so often I see the female in a static, relaxed pose with muted/pale(i.e. our notion of feminine, not necessarily the same differences found in nature) colors while the male is in a dynamic pose with bold colors. A lot of this I see in the requests section, not the ones currently released, but there are some that fit this.

 

The new gold dimorphism has the female flying and the male standing. While this may be true to some sprites, I don't think we can assume that it will be with all sprites. I would like to see the female sprite before I judge on this dragon.

 

Speaking of which, it would be really cool if you (Lyth, not Nectaris ) could somehow put up sprite progress. It may spoil a surprise, but some people could dislike or fall in love with the specific updates, not the act of updating, if that makes any sense at all.

[Nectaris]

The new gold dimorphism has the female flying and the male standing. While this may be true to some sprites, I don't think we can assume that it will be with all sprites. I would like to see the female sprite before I judge on this dragon.

 

Hence, the often part. As I said, I see it more often with the ones on the progress list than the ones currently released. I do agree it would be nice to see it to form an opinion based on the sprite alone, but I have a feeling it won't be shown(I could easily be wrong though).

[darkshadow5392]

I love the current sprites but I am open for an update

As for when someone says it is difficult to make out the dragon from the plant

I always considered that part of what it was , humans and dragons are enticed by the beautiful flowers and walk closer while the dragon itself was hidden waiting for them (angler fish style)

 

as for dimorphism, i love all the other sets you've done so i am waiting eargerly to see their male/female versions

 

i would be nice to see sprite updates if possible and while it will be difficult to please everyone i think it would cut down the number of user who are upset only because of the sudden change

[demonicvampiregirl]

I like them the way they are. Long as the sprite doesn't get completely and totally changed like the gold I'd be alright with it.

[stogucheme]

Dimorphism - Neutral, on one hand, it does create more variety, but on the other, I agree with Renorei, so often I see the female in a static, relaxed pose with muted/pale(i.e. our notion of feminine, not necessarily the same differences found in nature) colors while the male is in a dynamic pose with bold colors. A lot of this I see in the requests section, not the ones currently released, but there are some that fit this.

O.o The Moonstones. Perfect example. The female is kinda shy and looking to the side, where as the male is proudly holding his tail. The female's colors next to the male's...there's no comparison. The female hatchies even fade away! PB Moonstone Example.

 

I mean, I love the Moonstones- don't get me wrong- I just think they're a perfect example for this. So yes, please, Lythiaren! It'd be amazing if you could make the females bold and not subtle in their killing ways.