Hazing

[Stromboli]

Hadn't seen anything related to this...

 

 

Dunno if anyone else has been following this story about the Florida A&M Drum Major who was beaten to death in a 'hazing incident.' Kinda interested in discussing hazing in general.

 

 

I know a lot of sections in my marching band have section initiations in which new members usually have to do some stupid tasks or something. Honestly I thought my section had the worst, when they pull us out to the woods in the middle of the night and yell at us while we march... Still the stupidest thing ever. I love my section and all the people in it, but I really hate them for that tradition. Somehow, having all the upperclassmen standing around screaming that I'm useless and not good enough and a stupid rookie really didn't make me feel like part of the section. Huh. Imagine that. /rant

My fraternity has a zero hazing policy, though. I do so love my brothers.

 

 

But physical beating isn't hazing. It's assault. Or, in the FAMU case, manslaughter, if not murder.

 

Anyway, thoughts?

[miladyz]

I've always thought that non-consensual "initiation" rituals are stupid and unnecessary.

[Syaoransbear]

I've always thought that non-consensual "initiation" rituals are stupid and unnecessary.

Agreed.

 

It's just some poor excuse to be mean to others. And I think when other people think it's okay or that they somehow have a right to do horrible things to others, it can be taken way too far. And then you have deaths.

Edited December 17, 2011 by Syaoransbear

[xxtyraxx]

I think hazing's a stupid tradition so I was really glad it was optional in my school. Don't know what it's like in other countries, but in Belgium there are several schools and cities that have banned hazing due to deaths. I can't really remember many instances but one boy drank himself to death (with water btw) in a hazing ritual.

[Brite]

Not to mention it's a stupid way to try and get false respect from others known as "brother hood".

[Kestra15]

I've always thought that non-consensual "initiation" rituals are stupid and unnecessary.

This.

 

Having been through a full military school for seven years, lived on military barracks most of my life, and been a part of a university for over six years, I have seen a wide variety of initiations, from stupid to dangerous to sickening.

 

Since I do so much first aid during Fresher's Weeks and the early weeks of the new academic year, it also means I have to treat a lot of victims from initiations. The moment an initiation is reported as taking place outside on a club night I know I may as well sign away the night as being a busy one.

[soupnazi]

"Oh hey! I'll just be mean to you and harass you and IT'S OKAY because you get to do it later!"

 

Yeah, no. Hazing is stupid.

[bloodsnout]

Hazing- is it similar to ragging? Where senior students ask newcomers to do things like perform a song, or recite, or get them food or drink, or make them do a dare? And then things get out of hand because it turns abusive, or the students are forced to do something illegal and so on?

[Kestra15]

Hazing- is it similar to ragging? Where senior students ask newcomers to do things like perform a song, or recite, or get them food or drink, or make them do a dare? And then things get out of hand because it turns abusive, or the students are forced to do something illegal and so on?

Yup. We call them 'initiations' in the UK.

[Lilithiana]

OO This is soooo sick!

[brightscalessaphira]

Hazing is really stupid and shouldn't be tolerated especially if your beating someone to death.

[Obscure_Trash]

I. Hate. Hazing.

 

And it's things like this that have made it illegal in some places/schools. Unfortunately, that doesn't really stop it. =\

[philpot123]

Depends on how you define hazing. The Order of the Arrow society in Boy Scouts used to lead the initiates to the campfire ring blindfolded. Not as a punishment, but just because no one outside the OA was supposed to know where the council circle was, and it's rather jeopardizing to have newbies running around telling their friends where they walked to get there. This was outlawed quite a few years ago as "hazing." I disagree. The initiation ritual is harmless, filled with symbolism, and is a really cool thing to be a part of.

[Obscure_Trash]

Depends on how you define hazing. The Order of the Arrow society in Boy Scouts used to lead the initiates to the campfire ring blindfolded. Not as a punishment, but just because no one outside the OA was supposed to know where the council circle was, and it's rather jeopardizing to have newbies running around telling their friends where they walked to get there. This was outlawed quite a few years ago as "hazing." I disagree. The initiation ritual is harmless, filled with symbolism, and is a really cool thing to be a part of.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hazing

 

noun

subjection to harassment or ridicule.

 

verb (used with object), hazed, haz·ing.

1. to subject (freshmen, newcomers, etc.) to abusive or humiliating tricks and ridicule.

2. Chiefly Nautical . to harass with unnecessary or disagreeable tasks.

 

What you guys went through doesn't sound like hazing to me. Sorry it got shut down.

[Rosedamai]

In our country, we mostly make freshmen drink like hell. It's a lot less coerced these days, though, especially if you're a female, as there's been accidents and harassment cases in the past.

 

But there are still some schools where they make you drink until you pass out. I'm fortunately not in one of them.

[xcrspy]

I don't think it's necessary at all, freshman have enough worries as it is not to mention doing something stupid to be accepted.

[orrrangeee]

If anyone's read Divergent, their initiations are pretty intense. Do it right, die trying, or be homeless.

[Gwynbleidd]

There was a kind of hazing when I went to college, I dont think it is as bad as America, but pretty much they just got us drunk and marched us around at midnight chanting .. or running around buildings naked.. I mean looking back on it, it seems stupid but at the time it was pretty fun I think you just get caught up in it.

[lady_caetlyn]

I've always thought that non-consensual "initiation" rituals are stupid and unnecessary.

Exactly.

[tjsweepers]

As bad as this sounds, it really depends on who is conducting it and the nature of it.

 

Having been in the military, I saw a bit of both sides. Navy side we have Wogs and Shellbacks. A wog is someone who has never crossed the equator, A shellback is someone who has gone though the initiation at the equator.

 

Its mostly gross stuff like having to crawl through trash or eat a cherry off someone unwashed foot. It's meant to be an ordeal, not something that happens everyday and while silly and gross, those that go through with it (it is optional) get a sense of taking part of and belonging to something.

 

The flip side is tacking, or when someone makes rank their new rank pin is put on with out the protective backing. People congratulate the freshly promoted by hitting the pin. Or when the uniform has sewn on rank patches and everyone hits the patch.

 

This is where I draw the line. As i have had to pull pins that have gotten stuck in someones collarbone and had to help people whose arms were covered in bruises.

Hazing is hurting people with just the situation of achieving something as a guise to cover the people who are doing the harm, while an initiation is a right of passage. It is a fine line and why it really depends on who is conducting it as usually its the young guys who feel empowered by already having the rank, being a shellback or just being on the other side that go to far.

[Prince_Xanthius]

Hmm, I'm not sure it counts as hazing per se, but first years at my vet school go through initiation during their first or second week, all 100 in a group. It is...not optional precisely (3rd years are VERY INSISTENT THAT YOU DO IT), but they do know when it will be and people do skip that lecture on occasion to avoid

 

The 3rd years basically break in to a lecture shortly before the end (the lecturer knows this is going to happen. As do the 95% of the first years), are made to remove their shoes and socks, and marched outside. They are then made to walk/run to concourse (the centre of the uni) while being pelted with water bombs, flour, raw eggs, rotten milk, etc. On concourse they are made to do a dance - it's usually lunch time and crowded - then marched back to the vet tower where there is a barbeque waiting. The past 2 years they've had to wade through the vet pond first (waist high at most). It's all kinda gross tbh and most get pretty dirty and a lot wet, but it's not really violent or humiliating. Everyone is kinda anxious about it, but then you do it and it's actually quite fun (especially now they've put limits on WHERE you can go, and WHAT can be used - no more animal poo allowed. The year I was initiated they went a little over the top with the distant we ran and the use of cable ties, but it wasn't at all dangerous, and I did enjoy iy).

I think THIS sort of thing is fine. I agree with tjsweepers that it gives you a sense of belonging to a group - in this case a group you are going to be with every day for the next 4 and half years.

 

Of far more concern is the kidnapping of the 3rd years, but this is only a few 3rd years, usually friends with the 4th years doing the kidnapping. That gets really bad from what I've heard and it DOES have the potential to go to far one day. I'm not going into it though because I wasn't kidnapped, and didn't get involved in the kidnapping. To my knowledge though no one to date has been truly hurt - been made very drunk sure, but still able to go on the class trip the next day. But it IS bad, and I do think that the school should step in and stop it; unfortunately it is late at night and not endorsed by the school in ANY way. Not even sure they are that aware of it.

 

I am fairly sure that a lot of what happens in extreme hazings is borderline illegal but not reported because tradition. It kinda horrifies me.

[Fuzzbucket]

I. Hate. Hazing.

 

And it's things like this that have made it illegal in some places/schools. Unfortunately, that doesn't really stop it. =\

I'm TOTALLY with you. I SUPPOSE if a fraternity is stupid enough to insist on it you have the choice of not applying to join - but for anything you need (in any way - school, army etc) it should be ABSOLUTELY illegal.

 

And if it takes place anyway (or in the case of a fraternity that allows it - they are the worst offenders, I believe) there is any kind of accident - ANY KIND - every single person involved (except the victim) should be prosecuted. If there's a DEATH - for murder. Not manslaughter - murder. You cannot tell me that those guys didn't know they were killing him, either - and even if they claim it was a "terrible accident " - so what. Beating people is not OK. EVER. (I am SO with the medical examiner there BLESS him for the common sense of that ruling.)

 

I certainly hope that every last hazer involved is kicked out of college and blacklisted for every other college in the US. No, in the WORLD.

 

And to those that say hazing is OK if it's "just harmless stuff" - well, that just means it perhaps starts out OK-ish (though why there is a need to ridicule people baffles me) but what starts out simple has a nasty tendency to turn nasty, so no. Ban it ALL. (Leading people blindfold to a secret place is hardly in the same class. There's no intention to ridicule there !)

Edited February 22, 2015 by fuzzbucket

[FiveSix]

I wasn't aware hazing was a thing that actually happened outside of terrible movies and CSI :/ I can't understand the draw of it from either side.

 

Nearest thing we have is a tradition of the second years doing random things like dressing in drag or animal onesies and dancing to cheesy music to try and make the freshers laugh in their (serious) matriculation photo.

[Esko]

Wait wait wait. Hold the phone. They allow hazing in schools?! I understand army drill sergeants throw insults, but marching bands?

Wow. I learned something new and rather bizarre today

[kecemis]

Wait wait wait. Hold the phone. They allow hazing in schools?! I understand army drill sergeants throw insults, but marching bands?

Wow. I learned something new and rather bizarre today

Chyea. My band (ohio state) got into some pretty unpleasant crap about it last year.

 

THAT BEING SAID!!

 

The guidelines on what is 'hazing' are incredibly vague and designed to be in the school's best interest, not the student. I sat through about 17.5 hours of 'hazing training' following the firing of my band director and this 'report' that had conclusions on my organization and how it works without ever getting a chance to defend ourselves.

 

Physically punishing people because they are of a certain rank (rookie or veteran)? Not ok. Never ok.

 

There are some ceremonies my section performs that were questionable. Extremely questionable. Throwing me in a basement, blind folded for 5 hours listening to Whitney Houston's "And I will always love you" on loop overlayed with "What's new #$#$%cat" and "Fight the team" played backwards while feeding me pizza crusts, insulting me, and making me stand in front of my section and tell in detail what each fault I had was was in NO WAY acceptable.

 

But the fact that I have a rookie name, something that is special to me and identifies me apart from all the other generic 'sarahs' or 'tims' out there? The fact that I ran out in my underwear and marched a pseudo performance because I freaking wanted to? Or the fact that I tell my rookie or second years to give me some funny drill that will make me charge through an unsuspecting tour group? Let's not forget the vulgar songs we used to sing on busses when we pulverized our rival up north into the muddy turf? That's called being in college, folks, and if you don't have an outlet (some people choose excessive drinking, I choose to make an idiot of myself) you'll go bonkers.

 

So yea, hazing happens. It happened this year. I see it happen all the time in other organizations. But take my little 'quiz' on the many shades of hazing can take place, and you'll find quickly just how easily the line is crossed.

 

Have you ever been on a scavenger hunt, the kind they hold in boy or girl scouts where you go and collect things on a list?

Have you ever called your significant other by a nickname (boo, baby, honey, sweetie) or something more playful?

Have you ever sang the lyrics of a song differently than the actual lyrics of the song?

Have you ever done something in order of eldest to youngest, or more experienced to less? (for example- all 6th graders can get lunch/leave the room first, followed by 5th and 4th)

Have you ever been given special perks because you are of older academic rank? (All 4th year seniors please leave to go on a field trip)

Have you ever been given special perks because of individual performance, determined by

special 'tests' or 'exams'? (for example, you have an IQ of 130, you get to go on this field trip)

Has your teacher ever made you stay after school because you were an idiot and started a food fight, or got a lower grade?

 

If you answered 'yes!' to any of the above, CONGRATS, you participated in something that, by most universities' standards, is HAZING.

 

I could literally go on all day about this, but I won't. I could though. Just give me a reason.