Death Penalty

[The Evil Doer]

Oh, I'm just a nurse working in Critical Care, and I got that off a mental health nurse whose been working in the trade for twenty years, as well as an update lecture on mental health from one of the forefront hospitals in Europe a month ago. And my aunt, who holds a Masters in Criminal Psychology agrees.

Well I guess that's why DSM hasn't approved it yet, because psychologists still see it as a controversy, so be it, criminal is not the one to blame for his choices, you are entitled to such opinion, we'll agree to disagree.

 

 

Edit - mental disorder and mentally insane aren't really the same thing.

Edited December 5, 2011 by The Evil Doer

[Kestra15]

Well I guess that's why DSM hasn't approved it yet, because psychologists still see it as a controversy, so be it, criminal is not the one to blame for his choices, you are entitled to such opinion, we'll agree to disagree.

 

 

Edit - mental disorder and mentally insane aren't really the same thing.

Umm...yes, they are, what with being "insane" being a very lay term for a variety of mental disorders.

[Sir Barton]

I had a question should rapists and child molesters (Sex offenders too) executed as well, do to the fact that in majority of the cases that involve this the victim is still alive. Why put the other person to death is that right?

Yes. Rape is a violent hate crime. Child molestation is heinous. As, I just saw said, it's not an eye for an eye. The death penalty would take these threats to society out of the loop. No one should have to live in fear of being raped or their child molested.

 

Sex Offenders, as a general term, is different. An individual can end up on the sex offenders list simply by being 19 and having consensual sex with a 17 year old. That is something that I think needs to be re-evaluated.

[Silverwingwyvren]

Remove this remove that and add this, society as a whole doesn't know what to do. Not trying to learn about the human brain than we currently are would be a big mistake. Like I said before man kind will never get rid of violence and death, you can keep killing criminals but they far out number society, they're like a hydra cut off one head two more grow back. It's a up hill battle that society blindly believe's is in their favor when it's not the case at all. War is for cowards, it only shows the two countries aren't man enough to talk that they tale the easy way out by killing each other.

Killers are still human, who is a man to decide weather another considered human. Monster don't even exist they're things the human mind made up. The traits killers display are in fact human traits, man will pursuit man to his injury. Deciding a killer has no rights in it self says that the world is on it's own power trip which will be it's down fall.

 

 

[The Evil Doer]

Umm...yes, they are, what with being "insane" being a very lay term for a variety of mental disorders.

Mentally insane means mentally unstable, unable to stand trial. Mental disorders of which you have spoken and which aprox 1/3 of population suffer from is not even close to being mentally insane hence huge difference between the two.

[Kestra15]

Mentally insane means mentally unstable, unable to stand trial. Mental disorders of which you have spoken and which aprox 1/3 of population suffer from is not even close to being mentally insane hence huge difference between the two.

Not really, given that if you are mentally unstable, you more likely than not have a mental disorder. This is not to say that having a mental disorder means you are mentally unstable.

[Sir Barton]

Remove this remove that and add this, society as a whole doesn't know what to do. Not trying to learn about the human brain than we currently are would be a big mistake. Like I said before man kind will never get rid of violence and death, you can keep killing criminals but they far out number society, they're like a hydra cut off one head two more grow back. It's a up hill battle that society blindly believe's is in their favor when it's not the case at all. War is for cowards, it only shows the two countries aren't man enough to talk that they tale the easy way out by killing each other.

Killers are still human, who is a man to decide weather another considered human. Monster don't even exist they're things the human mind made up. The traits killers display are in fact human traits, man will pursuit man to his injury. Deciding a killer has no rights in it self says that the world is on it's own power trip which will be it's down fall.

Not any surprise but I hold a different opinion. Killers are no longer human to me. They give up their humanity when they decide to take a life. Same goes for the individual who rapes. At that point they are no better than a feral animal and deserve to be put down. The three strengths associated with humanity are love, kindness, and social intelligence. A murderer has already shown to be lacking in these qualities so on a philosophical level they would no longer be considered human.

 

Considering we are extremely over populated I feel we can stand to lose members of our species who threaten the rest of the populace. The criminal mind is not something most of us are going to ever be able to understand. There are some who are just hardwired differently from most of society. They function more from their hindbrain then from the frontal lobe. The fact that the majority is able to control their hindbrain with the smaller newer frontal lobe is actually really impressive. Murderers are running on what is more natural for our species. As we became more social and the frontal lobe developed we learned to suppress our more animalistic natures. Violent criminals are throw backs. If they haven't the capability to evolve with the rest of us then eliminate them for the good of society.

Edited December 5, 2011 by Sir Barton

[Kestra15]

Not any surprise but I hold a different opinion. Killers are no longer human to me.

Including the Armed Forces and the executioners?

[The Evil Doer]

Not really, given that if you are mentally unstable, you more likely than not have a mental disorder. This is not to say that having a mental disorder means you are mentally unstable.

Again... Mentally insane means mentally unstable, that's the phrase used.

1/3 of the population is not mentally insane but has mental disorders, mental disorders vary from A to Z.... If you have to wash your hands three times you have a mental disorder but it hardly makes you mentally unstable aka mentally insane...

[Silverwingwyvren]

Well is some cases people snap and do something they would normally do.

 

They give up their humanity when they decide to take a life.

 

I have to say that men and women who go to war and kill others fit that as well, because they give up humanity to kill another person.

[Kestra15]

Again... Mentally insane means mentally unstable, that's the phrase used.

1/3 of the population is not mentally insane but has mental disorders, mental disorders vary from A to Z.... If you have to wash your hands three times you have a mental disorder but it hardly makes you mentally unstable aka mentally insane...

*sigh* You missed the point, and I cannot state it much clearer.

 

If you are mentally unstable, you will likely have a mental disorder.

 

If you have a mental disorder, it does not mean you are mentally insane.

[Fuzzbucket]

Was that one of the Bulger kids? Or someone else (is migraine-y and not currently thinking straght).

 

Incidently one of those boys that killed Jamie Bulger has been re-arrested again since his original release. Child Pornography offences this time. Turns out he'd also be cautioned for violent affray and possesion of cocaine.

Yes indeed it was. And if you read about the kind of life he was forced to lead after his release, and the fact that he was not allowed to seek further help as he was not allowed to mention what he had done to anyone except to any future girlfriend – I can see why he was driven to all that. As I said- he was left with no hope.

 

I wonder, how do you feel about war?

As you will likely have assumed – and correctly – against it. I’d REALLY like to see world leaders fight one another rather than sending out innocent people as cannon fodder to sort out their arguments for them. Being in Europe, where WWII was probably the worst pointless mass loss of lives ever, these things exercise the mind rather.

It seems you are completely ignoring everyone here <snip>

Most of us are recognizing that the system is broken and needs changes.

Well no. I am not ignoring everyone, or I wouldn’t be bothering to post. I just happen to disagree with many in this thread, and it is a very important issue, for me.

Most are saying things are broken, yes. I happen to think the death penalty is part of what is broken. It is part of an increasing disregard for the value of a human life, to me.

This post

I think we as society have learned some time ago what a rabid dog is and how to deal with it, further exploration into it is not for the sake of society but only for the self glorification of a selected few....

is an example of what worries me.

and this post

Killers are still human, who is a man to decide weather another considered human. Monster don't even exist they're things the human mind made up. The traits killers display are in fact human traits, man will pursuit man to his injury. Deciding a killer has no rights in itself says that the world is on its own power trip which will be its down fall.

gives me hope.

 

But since my views are clearly unwelcome in this thread, and I do have a life to live, I'll get on with it ! Peace to all.

Edited December 5, 2011 by fuzzbucket

[The Evil Doer]

*sigh* You missed the point, and I cannot state it much clearer.

 

If you are mentally unstable, you will likely have a mental disorder.

 

If you have a mental disorder, it does not mean you are mentally insane.

That is what I said as well, never had a problem with that, only with the fact that it is false that 1/3 of the population is mentally insane, less than 1% of the population is mentally insane...

 

I have to say that men and women who go to war and kill others fit that as well, because they give up humanity to kill another person.

 

Not really, there is a huge difference between killing someone to protect others and between killing someone just because I enjoy it.....

[Silverwingwyvren]

They wouldn't have to kill to protect if they would talk like adults. Besides the men and women are the ones fighting not the world leaders.

[Kestra15]

That is what I said as well, never had a problem with that, only with the fact that it is false that 1/3 of the population is mentally insane, less than 1% of the population is mentally insane...

...that wasn't the statistic I used. It's that 1 in 4 people have/will suffer from a mental disorder.

[Sir Barton]

Including the Armed Forces and the executioners?

Nope. Those are people doing a job that needs to be done and most don't want to do. I applaud their courage to step up to the plate. A great many of soldiers and I'm certain a fair number of state appointed executioners suffer guilt in taking a human life. Same holds true with police officers. These folks still function in society without being a threat... with the exception of those suffering PTSD but even those individuals are usually not a violent threat to others. The two morons who were having an argument in the French Quarter a block from where I was and decided to open fire on each other killing three people and wounding seven are an example of those I feel need to be removed from society. Yep, you can lock them up and take care of them for the rest of their lives but they can make parole and be out again to continue to be a threat and some actually do escape from time to time. The only sure solution to removing the threat is to put violent criminals to death.

[The Evil Doer]

They wouldn't have to kill to protect if they would talk like adults. Besides the men and women are the ones fighting not the world leaders.

I understand what you are saying, we should all close our eyes, hold hands and hope for the best... There is no need for the army, no need for the police, protecting is unnecessary, to talk things over is all that is needed in this perfect world because after all everybody is so reasonable....

Got it right ?

 

Edit -

...that wasn't the statistic I used. It's that 1 in 4 people have/will suffer from a mental disorder.

 

You used it when responding to someone talking about mentally insane, if you werent talking about mentally insane I dont understand how was it relevant at all, thats all....

Edited December 5, 2011 by The Evil Doer

[Silverwingwyvren]

I meant in theres no need for war period what so ever, it doesn't matter what country wins the war both sides loose in the end. Casualties aren't enough to keep people from fighting, its not enough that kids are killing kids and unborn childern on both sides loose their fathers to war. Would you rather have your loved one home alive or his metals?

 

It may be veiwed as a valiant effort to fight in a war but war can't give life it can only take it away.

 

Another thing with the death penalty is soceity fears loosing control, they fear what they can not understand or refuse to understand and veiw the only way of fixing it is to kill it.

Edited December 5, 2011 by Silverwingwyvren

[Kestra15]

You used it when responding to someone talking about mentally insane, if you werent talking about mentally insane I dont understand how was it relevant at all, thats all....

The implication sounded much like the poster was saying only criminals have mental disorders/a mental order sparks criminal behaviour.

[The Evil Doer]

I meant in theres no need for war period what so ever, it doesn't matter what country wins the war both sides loose in the end. Casualties aren't enough to keep people from fighting, its not enough that kids are killing kids and unborn childern on both sides loose their fathers to war. Would you rather have your loved one home alive or his metals?

 

It may be veiwed as a valiant effort to fight in a war but war can't give life it can only take it away.

War is not like deciding whether to have a slice of pizza or a sandwich, in most cases war is forced on you, even war serves its purpose whatever that might be...

[Silverwingwyvren]

Your right war serves its main and only purpose destruction of lives, grief and breeds hate and revenge. And in most cases the hate and revenge is put on people who aren't even in the war but are from the opposing country. (Japan and Iraq for example)

 

Yeah its forced because humans can't resolve conflict with out it, we're not intellegent enough to do it with out war.

Edited December 5, 2011 by Silverwingwyvren

[Sir Barton]

I meant in theres no need for war period what so ever, it doesn't matter what country wins the war both sides loose in the end. Casualties aren't enough to keep people from fighting, its not enough that kids are killing kids and unborn childern on both sides loose their fathers to war. Would you rather have your loved one home alive or his metals?

 

It may be veiwed as a valiant effort to fight in a war but war can't give life it can only take it away.

War takes life but offers quality of life to the people back home. For us it means we can sleep a little easier knowing that our soldiers are doing their best to keep the battle off of our soil. Most of our wars have been fought over religion so the only way I see to significantly reduce the threat of war would be to get rid of religion and I don't see how that could ever happen.

[The Evil Doer]

Your right war serves it main and only purpose destruction of lives, grief and breeds revenge.

 

Yeah its forced because humans can't resolve conflict with out it, we're not intellegent enough to do it with out war.

Crime will never seize to exist, wars will never seize to exist, it has nothing to do with our intelligence...

[Silverwingwyvren]

I don't think getting rid of religion would be such a good idea, countries such as china that have no religion are in worse shape than countries that do have religion. I had a chinese man tell me that if china had the bible and believed in it, it would be a better country than it is now.

[Sir Barton]

I don't think getting rid of religion would be such a good idea, countries such as china that have no religion are in worse shape than countries that do have religion. I had a chinese man tell me that if china had the bible and believed in it, it would be a better country than it is now.

Excuse me. China has religion but your statement proved my point. Because their religion is not Christianity it causes a conflict of views. They would be better off "if China had the bible" so we go in and force our religion on them for their betterment and historically what has that led to what? War.

 

"Buddhism remains a main popular religion in China since its introduction in the 1st century; the largest group of religious traditions is however that of Chinese folk religion or "Shenism", a term coined by A.J. Elliot, which he used to collectively name Chinese folk religions, as the ethnic religion of the Hans, which encompasses Taoism, and the worship of the shens, a collection of various local ethnic deities, heroes and ancestors, and figures from Chinese mythology, among which the most popular ones in recent years have been Mazu (goddess of the seas, patron of Southern China), Huangdi (divine patriarch of all the Chinese, "Volksgeist" of the Chinese nation), the Black Dragon, Caishen (god of prosperity and richness) and others."

 

It's not a lack of intelligence that leads to war, it's mainly our intolerance towards each others views and belief systems.

Edited December 5, 2011 by Sir Barton